Who is a better GM Dave Gettleman or Mike McCagnan?

[Jetsfan80]

8 hours ago, Dunnie said:

I could have sworn we just landed Leveon freaking Bell or the studly CJ Mosely ... What was I thinking ??? Oh I guess he needs to land a franchise QB...oh wait...

So his master plan 5 years in was paying a RB to be here for 2 years and overpay an ILB who can't cover? 

As for QB, Maccagnan's Plan A at QB was Kirk Cousins.  Plan B could very well have been Josh Allen if it hadn't been for Gettleman's incompetence. 

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

KC FAN [just watched my team go 12-4 and host the AFCCG thanks to a second-year QB who won league MVP and threw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs]: I am very upset about the players we drafted recently

Dude!  They had to cut Kareem Hunt!  They have scored as few as 27 points since he left the team.

[Reynolds1029]

14 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I really don't  think anyone can seriously say taking Barkley  was a mistake. 

Barkley can be as good as Barry Sanders but even he couldn't overcome $hit QB play. NEVER take an RB at no. 2 when you don't have a QB to take the field. Josh McCown would be an upgrade for the Giants because Eli really is THAT bad nowadays. 

[Reynolds1029]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

I know everyone wants to laugh and point at Gettleman for taking the OROY next great RB in the NFL over Darnold but why does the same not apply to Mac for taking a Safety over 2 QB's who just led their teams to the playoffs and 1 looks to be all world?  

Because none of the 2017 QB Draft class were thought to be nearly as good as the 2018 class. If everyone knew what Mahomes and Watson would turn out to be we would have never had a shot at them. They would have went at no. 1 and 2. 

[dbatesman]

26 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

You're crazy, they are two totally separate situations.  In most mocks, Mahomes wasn't a top 5 pick.  I love fans, they have great 20/20 hindsight.

I like this argument because it implies that it’s crazy for us to expect Maccagnan to be smarter or better-informed than Draft Twitter.

[JetsFanatic]

2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I like this argument because it implies that it’s crazy for us to expect Maccagnan to be smarter or better-informed than Draft Twitter.

My argument is how fans reinvent history.  The Adams/Mahomes decision was nothing like the Barkley/Darnold decision. 

[#27TheDominator]

15 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

My argument is how fans reinvent history.  The Adams/Mahomes decision was nothing like the Barkley/Darnold decision. 

How about Adams/Watson?  

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Reynolds1029 said:

Barkley can be as good as Barry Sanders but even he couldn't overcome $hit QB play. NEVER take an RB at no. 2 when you don't have a QB to take the field. Josh McCown would be an upgrade for the Giants because Eli really is THAT bad nowadays. 

 

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, Brady sucked.  He leads his team to a 6th and we're going to nitpick the final game.  Baltimore was absolutely lead by Flacco and a defense.  That's not by a RB.  I'm not getting your point.  You haven't made a point that a top back gets you to a championship.  The w at to one is a qb

Then I'm not going to keep trying. I suppose you think Peyton Manning led the Bronco's in that last Super Bowl

[Green DNA]

Macc drafted Hackenberg in the 2nd round. This alone makes him possibly the worst GM ever.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Bleedin Green]

3 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I like this argument because it implies that it’s crazy for us to expect Maccagnan to be smarter or better-informed than Draft Twitter.

Yeah, that's right up there with an awful pick or signing being totally excusable if any fans dared to accept it.  Because it's totally reasonable for the level of expectations for a person paid millions of dollars to do a job to simply be not significantly worse than any other random person who has watched football.

[Jetster]

Its all water under the bridge. You guys act like GMs never make mistakes or CAN'T IMPROVE. I'd rather have Darnold than Watson so that's already a positive, Jamal Adams changes the attitude at Florham Park so who f*cking cares that he may be only a top 5 safety as long as Sam is slinging it? 

Bowels was a complete MORON & no one here is going to convince me that he had nothing to do with REVIS, CRO, GILCHRIST, SKRINE, LEE, MAYE. Those players have Todd Bowles trying to recreate his Cards days to a TEE! Woody Johnson created a democracy here, not a Hierarchy with Macc 100% in charge. At least Chris Johnson was smart enough to know Bowles would crash & burn in 2018. We ended up with the 3rd pick instead our usual 6-15. We're going to get a STUD or a slew of picks. We added a stud RB, Stud LB, a very good slot WR & a stud LG & you guys are still bitching like little girls. Reading this site, it's like 1/2 of the fans here hope we fail so they can say, see I told you. 

[tuffhand]

6 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Its all water under the bridge. You guys act like GMs never make mistakes or CAN'T IMPROVE. I'd rather have Darnold than Watson so that's already a positive, Jamal Adams changes the attitude at Florham Park so who f*cking cares that he may be only a top 5 safety as long as Sam is slinging it? 

Bowels was a complete MORON & no one here is going to convince me that he had nothing to do with REVIS, CRO, GILCHRIST, SKRINE, LEE, MAYE. Those players have Todd Bowles trying to recreate his Cards days to a TEE! Woody Johnson created a democracy here, not a Hierarchy with Macc 100% in charge. At least Chris Johnson was smart enough to know Bowles would crash & burn in 2018. We ended up with the 3rd pick instead our usual 6-15. We're going to get a STUD or a slew of picks. We added a stud RB, Stud LB, a very good slot WR & a stud LG & you guys are still bitching like little girls. Reading this site, it's like 1/2 of the fans here hope we fail so they can say, see I told you. 

Actually it's probably more than half.

[jetsons]

7 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

That is not the reason. The reason was because they were a laughingstock.  They had not won any games. I think it was 1 game in 2 years.  If your team sucks that bad, you get fired. 

oh... okay ???

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Then I'm not going to keep trying. I suppose you think Peyton Manning led the Bronco's in that last Super Bowl

You've made how many ridiculous comments on a single topic?

I suppose I think, unlike you and whatever shlt youre smoking, that Mannings Bronco team got to and won the SB because of its D.  You argue whatever point it is youre trying to make.  

You should have never started your pointless argument.  Should have cut your own throat when you starting with a RB is a better pick than a FQB.  Thats mind numbing

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Green DNA said:

Macc drafted Hackenberg in the 2nd round. This alone makes him possibly the worst GM ever.

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

To someone who doesnt understand football or the draft.  All in one amazingly simple post

[jeremy2020]

Gettlemen has 3 more years to make the playoffs before he's as bad as Mac. So we'll see what # rebuild he's on by then..

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So his master plan 5 years in was paying a RB to be here for 2 years and overpay an ILB who can't cover? 

As for QB, Maccagnan's Plan A at QB was Kirk Cousins.  Plan B could very well have been Josh Allen if it hadn't been for Gettleman's incompetence. 

Y9ou know, the 5 year plan is almost as lame as the 3 different rebuild nonsense

Tell us all, how bad is J Allen that you keep saying it like it would be a horror over what we had?

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Yeah, that's right up there with an awful pick or signing being totally excusable if any fans dared to accept it.  Because it's totally reasonable for the level of expectations for a person paid millions of dollars to do a job to simply be not significantly worse than any other random person who has watched football.

Funny how those internet geniuses look good after the draft is long gone, after the reviews are in or after watching picks you passed on show something on the field.  I'm thinking we could do that.  So yes, hes made lots of mistakes, agree.  The idea that a few random people could have done better is comical on every level

When I see the whiners who think they know what theyre doing post their picks over the last 4 seasons and show how smart they are I'll be impressed.  

[Jet Nut]

12 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Gettlemen has 3 more years to make the playoffs before he's as bad as Mac. So we'll see what # rebuild he's on by then..

Good for you, cant judge a single year.  Makes your head hurt apparently.

But hey, buttfumble boy has his "weapon".  Seems to make you feel good, so back at you.

 

 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

How about Adams/Watson?  

He didnt like Watson.  

I did.

Most here argued with me over taking him

Had a weak arm, no accuracy and a balky knee.

There the rewrite.

[More Cowbell]

13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You've made how many ridiculous comments on a single topic?

I suppose I think, unlike you and whatever shlt youre smoking, that Mannings Bronco team got to and won the SB because of its D.  You argue whatever point it is youre trying to make.  

You should have never started your pointless argument.  Should have cut your own throat when you starting with a RB is a better pick than a FQB.  Thats mind numbing

I don't  even know how to respond to this. 

Are you saying you think the D won the SB or Manning?

Why is it so difficult for you to grasp that the Pat's last year won the SB not because the QB led the team, it was because they had a good enough team that they could carry the QB. Against Atlanta, Brady won that SB for the Pat's, but that isn't what happened last SB. Brady didn't  even throw a TD pass the whole game, he converted 3 of 12 third downs. He had more picks thanTD's (1). He's  lucky Goff played even worse and Gurley was a no show. 

You still think Brady led that team to a SB win

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't  even know how to respond to this. 

Are you saying you think the D won the SB or Manning?

Why is it so difficult for you to grasp that the Pat's last year won the SB not because the QB led the team, it was because they had a good enough team that they could carry the QB. Against Atlanta, Brady won that SB for the Pat's, but that isn't what happened last SB. Brady didn't  even throw a TD pass the whole game, he converted 3 of 12 third downs. He had more picks thanTD's (1). He's  lucky Goff played even worse and Gurley was a no show. 

You still think Brady led that team to a SB win

Holy shlt, you dont think the Broncos won because of their D.  Were you old enough to stay up and watch that game?  

WTF does any of what you are posting have to do with a RB will win you a SB over a QB.

Cant you stick to one topic, I know its really hard when youre scattered all over the map

RB, not whatever nonsense youre on now.  

[Bleedin Green]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Funny how those internet geniuses look good after the draft is long gone, after the reviews are in or after watching picks you passed on show something on the field.  I'm thinking we could do that.  So yes, hes made lots of mistakes, agree.  The idea that a few random people could have done better is comical on every level

When I see the whiners who think they know what theyre doing post their picks over the last 4 seasons and show how smart they are I'll be impressed.  

Those pretending they would have been amazing at the draft themselves are few and far between, though I would agree that there's little merit to those who make such claims.

However, it is excessively common for the apologists of any GM to give the laughable "well you liked the pick at the time!" excuse.  That is suggesting that the guy getting paid millions for the job, which him and his very large supporting staff spend years of their time preparing for, should be no more competent at it as any random fan.  Assuming folks are smart enough to realize how asinine of an argument that makes, any of our general thoughts on a pick at the moment it was made could not possibly be more meaningless to the evaluation of a GM's overall performance, and the criticism given will still be totally merited if/when that pick turns out to be a miserable failure.

The fact that Maccagnan has been outright incompetent at his job for years is the only thing that matters, and the rest of it is irrelevant, nonsensical excuse-making.

[Jet Nut]

39 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Those pretending they would have been amazing at the draft themselves are few and far between, though I would agree that there's little merit to those who make such claims.

However, it is excessively common for the apologists of any GM to give the laughable "well you liked the pick at the time!" excuse.  That is suggesting that the guy getting paid millions for the job, which him and his very large supporting staff spend years of their time preparing for, should be no more competent at it as any random fan.  Assuming folks are smart enough to realize how asinine of an argument that makes, any of our general thoughts on a pick at the moment it was made could not possibly be more meaningless to the evaluation of a GM's overall performance, and the criticism given will still be totally merited if/when that pick turns out to be a miserable failure.

The fact that Maccagnan has been outright incompetent at his job for years is the only thing that matters, and the rest of it is irrelevant, nonsensical excuse-making.

Really?

Apologist?  I said he hasnt been good.  Sorry that I wont go the extra mile and claim that internet dweebs can play GM because after the fact they brag that they liked someone.  

BTW, this:

Quote

expectations for a person paid millions of dollars to do a job to simply be not significantly worse than any other random person who has watched football.

Says you are now changing your story.  Because it says any random person who has watched football could do better.

[Bleedin Green]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Really?

Apologist?  I said he hasnt been good.  Sorry that I wont go the extra mile and claim that internet dweebs can play GM because after the fact they brag that they liked someone.  

BTW, this:

Says you are now changing your story.  Because it says any random person who has watched football could do better.

Wow, you seriously lack in reading comprehension, don't you? I didn't actually say anything about you, but your own paranoia and respondent tantrum certainly speak volumes.

Your second point simply seems to be more of an issue with your own grasp of the English language. Nothing I can do for you there.

[Jet Nut]

25 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Wow, you seriously lack in reading comprehension, don't you? I didn't actually say anything about you, but your own paranoia and respondent tantrum certainly speak volumes.

Your second point simply seems to be more of an issue with your own grasp of the English language. Nothing I can do for you there.

I lack reading comprehension?  I never said a word about you saying a thing about me,  I was talking about the crazy idea you tried to sell that random fans can draft better than someone who is paid to do it.  

And sorry, if you dont know what you wrote, cant get exactly what you clearly wrote and want to spin out of it, go ahead.  We all know what you said.  

Comprehension.  Grasp the english language.

LOL, you have to be kidding.  This is as lame an argument as there is and doesnt involve comprehension or apparently the english language.

Another who just cant say, my bad, not what I meant to say or whatever. 

[dbatesman]

46 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Says you are now changing your story.  Because it says any random person who has watched football could do better.

Any random person is a stretch, but the forum does a mock draft every year, and every year three or four guys end up doing better than Maccagnan.

[Bleedin Green]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I lack reading comprehension?  I never said a word about you saying a thing about me,  I was talking about the crazy idea you tried to sell that random fans can draft better than someone who is paid to do it.  

And sorry, if you dont know what you wrote, cant get exactly what you clearly wrote and want to spin out of it, go ahead.  We all know what you said.  

Comprehension.  Grasp the english language.

LOL, you have to be kidding.  This is as lame an argument as there is and doesnt involve comprehension or apparently the english language

You got personally defensive when I referenced "apologists", cited your own comments as to why you weren't being one (despite no accusation otherwise), and then immediately resorted to your impressive kindergarten-level insults.

Beyond that, you continue to show a lack of reading comprehension, given your inability to process the simple point that Maccagnan is paid to be better at his job than we are, making fans opinions of picks at the time they are made meaningless, and some apologists' attempts to use that as an excuse for Maccaganan is therefore pure nonsense.  Your inability to comprehend that doesn't magically change that point to a different one you're making up all by yourself to argue against (and yet still somehow losing it).

[RutgersJetFan]

So, this thread is going well.

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Any random person is a stretch, but the forum does a mock draft every year, and every year three or four guys end up doing better than Maccagnan.

Of course the forum does.  I dont agree that 3 or 4 better our draft with picks before the draft.  Hey, I wanted Carr, thats fading and wanted Watson.  And I mean one pick in each round, not 3 in the 1st, 3 in the 2nd etc.  But none of this changes what I said, that he hasnt done a good job.  Wasnt making excuses or apologizing for his crappy picks.  

That he said any random person and then accuses me of having reading comprehension issues and that I have a problem with the english language is amazing

[Jet Nut]

13 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

You got personally defensive when I referenced "apologists", cited your own comments as to why you weren't being one (despite no accusation otherwise), and then immediately resorted to your impressive kindergarten-level insults.

Beyond that, you continue to show a lack of reading comprehension, given your inability to process the simple point that Maccagnan is paid to be better at his job than we are, making fans opinions of picks at the time they are made meaningless, and some apologists' attempts to use that as an excuse for Maccaganan is therefore pure nonsense.  Your inability to comprehend that doesn't magically change that point to a different one you're making up all by yourself to argue against (and yet still somehow losing it).

Defensive?  Find the comment here that makes me an apologist?  Is that where I dont agree with the idea that a random drafts better than Macc.  

ack of reading comprehension:

Quote

expectations for a person paid millions of dollars to do a job to simply be not significantly worse than any other random person who has watched football.

What language is this?  Where in any way shape or form does this not say any random fan can do a better job?  Wow, hes paid and fans arent?  Where did you come up with this enlightening concept?  Are you sure?  LOL

R E A D I N G  C O M P R E H E N S I  O N.  Yup, me.  Keep spinning, its fun 

BYE.  Come back when you admit you F'd up.  You know, instead of insulting someone who totally grasps what you said

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Gettlemen has 3 more years to make the playoffs before he's as bad as Mac. So we'll see what # rebuild he's on by then..

Last year didnt count, it was a competitive miscalculation.  This year is a total tear down but the rebuild wont start for another 2 years or once they find they're future QB.

- Jets fans

[Bleedin Green]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Of course the forum does.  I dont agree that 3 or 4 better our draft with picks before the draft.  Hey, I wanted Carr, thats fading and wanted Watson.  And I mean one pick in each round, not 3 in the 1st, 3 in the 2nd etc.  But none of this changes what I said, that he hasnt done a good job.  Wasnt making excuses or apologizing for his crappy picks.  

That he said any random person and then accuses me of having reading comprehension issues and that I have a problem with the english language is amazing

I acknowledge that you did in fact see the sequence of words of "any other random person."  Unfortunately, all of the words surrounding that still seem to have you completely stumped.

[Bleedin Green]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Defensive?  Find the comment here that makes me an apologist?  Is that where I dont agree with the idea that a random drafts better than Macc. 

Ok, so you've got to be screwing with me now, right?  You're still throwing a personal fit about a comment that wasn't directed at you.

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

ack of reading comprehension:

What language is this?  Where in any way shape or form does this not say any random fan can do a better job?  Wow, hes paid and fans arent?  Where did you come up with this enlightening concept?  Are you sure?  LOL

R E A D I N G  C O M P R E H E N S I  O N.  Yup, me.  Keep spinning, its fun 

BYE

I'm sorry you can't comprehend the actual point, that some attempting to use other fans' opinions of a pick at the time of selection as an excuse for failures is meaningless nonsense, as Maccagnan is not paid to be as bad or worse than random fans at his job.  Of course, you've probably figured out that you're wrong by now, given your curious need to edit a two sentence post to delete the portion that kind of proves rather definitively you're arguing against something never said, and can't even do that right.