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themeangreenkillingmachine

Trading before draft day

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5 hours ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

I came across a comment in a jets related article I read on pro football focus. 

Commenting on the colts / jets trade in last year's draft,  someone said; the colts could have gotten a lot more from the jets if they waited until they were on the clock with Darnold sitting there @3.

I couldn't agree more. We all thought Darnold would have gone #1 and would have given up just about anything for him. 

If we're going to trade down, there is  no point to doing it anytime before the draft. I think Mac knows this better than anyone. If a player a team is in love with falls, they'll give up anything for him. 

The colts gm is getting a lot of praise for all his moves the past 2 years, but last year's trade was a blunder. 

The colts took a sure thing instead of gambling that on draft day the haul would have been better. If the Giants took Darnold then the deal with the Jets would’ve been dead. They took less to make sure they got something good instead of holding out for better.  Like taking even money for a blackjack when the dealer is showing a picture card. 

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6 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Wut?  Price less?  He gave up a premium.  The teams negotiate a price well ahead of time.  He paid a premium price (3 2nd rounders for moving from 6 to 3)  It is not even close value wise just looking at the value chart.

 

Part of the reason he gave up a ‘premium’ in points IMO is because he wanted to protect this yrs 1st rder...turns out for good reason too. 

Which is also part of the reason I believe if he can even get close to value for the #3 pick this draft he will trade back and recoup what he gave up. I get the argument that we need a edge guy etc...but I’m not sold on either of Bosa or Allen being that great and it can be argued that it would be better to get potentially some more young starters at this stage...more so than one edge guy. 

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6 hours ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

I came across a comment in a jets related article I read on pro football focus. 

Commenting on the colts / jets trade in last year's draft,  someone said; the colts could have gotten a lot more from the jets if they waited until they were on the clock with Darnold sitting there @3.

I couldn't agree more. We all thought Darnold would have gone #1 and would have given up just about anything for him. 

If we're going to trade down, there is  no point to doing it anytime before the draft. I think Mac knows this better than anyone. If a player a team is in love with falls, they'll give up anything for him. 

The colts gm is getting a lot of praise for all his moves the past 2 years, but last year's trade was a blunder. 

This is a double edged sword.  While waiting may bring a bonanza in a last minute deal for a  coveted player, it could also blow up in the Jets faces.  This is not last year when three possible quarterbacks, maybe four,  could have gone in the first few picks.

Trading out of the spot before the draft removes the possibility of the 49ers cutting our legs out from under us, by selling their pick first.  You may want to beat them to the punch.  The other advantage is that teams will try to read the board and predict the drafting order of specific players. They may trade with us in anticipation of a certain player being there for them. Waiting until those picks are revealed removes that  advantage.  If a teams preferred pick is gone, game over.

It is an interesting dilemma for sure. The other wild card is the Cardinals.  Are they really going to take Kyler Murray with the #1 pick?  I think so, but if they're bluffing, and trade out of that spot,  again we are screwed.  I think my preference is for the Jets to beat the 49ers [and Cardinals] to the punch and trade out early,  instead of waiting.  Let it be someone else's problem.

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Would you take Shreff, Allen the no 1 no2 from the redskins for them to move to our pick.  This would help both lines let us take best center / wr at 17 and a good player in round 2.

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3 hours ago, HighPitch said:

What is a catbird

"The catbird seat" is an American English idiomatic phrase used to describe an enviable position, often in terms of having the upper hand or greater advantage in any type of dealing among parties.Wikipedia

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31 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

This is a double edged sword.  While waiting may bring a bonanza in a last minute deal for a  coveted player, it could also blow up in the Jets faces.  This is not last year when three possible quarterbacks, maybe four,  could have gone in the first few picks.

Trading out of the spot before the draft removes the possibility of the 49ers cutting our legs out from under us, by selling their pick first.  You may want to beat them to the punch.  The other advantage is that teams will try to read the board and predict the drafting order of specific players. They may trade with us in anticipation of a certain player being there for them. Waiting until those picks are revealed removes that  advantage.  If a teams preferred pick is gone, game over.

It is an interesting dilemma for sure. The other wild card is the Cardinals.  Are they really going to take Kyler Murray with the #1 pick?  I think so, but if they're bluffing, and trade out of that spot,  again we are screwed.  I think my preference is for the Jets to beat the 49ers [and Cardinals] to the punch and trade out early,  instead of waiting.  Let it be someone else's problem.

This is precisely why no one will trade with the Jets before the draft - you're not going to make a big trade with the Jets and then have SF trade out in front of you.  Those types to trade require a sure thing.

Now, what is more likely to happen is, if the Jets want to truly trade out,  they will have a deal lined up - and IF the player the other team wants is there - then they'll pull the trigger.  But all the negotiation will have already been done.

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33 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

This is a double edged sword.  While waiting may bring a bonanza in a last minute deal for a  coveted player, it could also blow up in the Jets faces.  This is not last year when three possible quarterbacks, maybe four,  could have gone in the first few picks.

Trading out of the spot before the draft removes the possibility of the 49ers cutting our legs out from under us, by selling their pick first.  You may want to beat them to the punch.  The other advantage is that teams will try to read the board and predict the drafting order of specific players. They may trade with us in anticipation of a certain player being there for them. Waiting until those picks are revealed removes that  advantage.  If a teams preferred pick is gone, game over.

It is an interesting dilemma for sure. The other wild card is the Cardinals.  Are they really going to take Kyler Murray with the #1 pick?  I think so, but if they're bluffing, and trade out of that spot,  again we are screwed.  I think my preference is for the Jets to beat the 49ers [and Cardinals] to the punch and trade out early,  instead of waiting.  Let it be someone else's problem.

Worst case scenario we take either Bose, Williams or Allen. I don’t think Greg Williams will have a problem with that!

 

 

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7 hours ago, slats said:

I'd be shocked if the Jets traded before the draft. Too many variables. Murray to the Cards still seems surreal to me, no matter how many times I see it. When the time comes, one or two of Murray, Bosa, or Haskins will be available, and the Jets should be able to pull off a trade (provided they're not in love with Bosa - another variable). But beforehand, they can set up parameters with a team who wants Haskins and another that wants Bosa and one that wants Murray and then just sit back and watch the first two picks unfold. I'm sure they're trying to get themselves set up just like that (if they haven't already). 

I really think Mac traded to #3 expecting to land Mayfield. Whether or not he was genuinely happy to get Darnold instead, I don't know. Have to believe he was much happier than if Mayfield and Darnold went #1 & 2. Once Mayfield went #1, that was something I really thought could've happened. 

I also think that he had some inside knowledge that the Giants were going Barkley all the way and not moving from that pick.

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2 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

"The catbird seat" is an American English idiomatic phrase used to describe an enviable position, often in terms of having the upper hand or greater advantage in any type of dealing among parties.Wikipedia

Thanks. Ive heard the term before and got the gist of it just wondering exactly hownit came about. Its odd

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12 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

 

Last year the Giants had Saquan as the top prospect in the draft.... & rightly so.

 

This drives me nuts. In no situation for a team needing a QB is Saquan the top prospect over Darnold. Ever. Giants were idiots

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10 hours ago, HighPitch said:

What is a catbird

The Gray Catbird or Dumetella carolinensis.

Or you can just call it a bird.

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13 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

That's what at the heart of the matter.

Last year the Giants had Saquan as the top prospect in the draft.... & rightly so.

It would require a boatload of picks to jump the Jets. SF has BOSA/Williams as the top pick..... Would they risk missing on one of those players to move down to #6 or #10, #11 OR 13 OR 15? I don't think so.

Jets are in the Catbird seat

Splitting hairs but according to Gettlemen, they had Baker #1 and Saquon #2.

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

This drives me nuts. In no situation for a team needing a QB is Saquan the top prospect over Darnold. Ever. Giants were idiots

They would've gone QB if Baker was there so this wasn't about protecting Eli. Gettlemen obviously had some concerns with Darnold. As of today, jury is still out on Darnold so who knows he could be right.

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14 hours ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

I came across a comment in a jets related article I read on pro football focus. 

Commenting on the colts / jets trade in last year's draft,  someone said; the colts could have gotten a lot more from the jets if they waited until they were on the clock with Darnold sitting there @3.

I couldn't agree more. We all thought Darnold would have gone #1 and would have given up just about anything for him. 

If we're going to trade down, there is  no point to doing it anytime before the draft. I think Mac knows this better than anyone. If a player a team is in love with falls, they'll give up anything for him. 

The colts gm is getting a lot of praise for all his moves the past 2 years, but last year's trade was a blunder. 

the bold is bs

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12 minutes ago, jgb said:

Splitting hairs but according to Gettlemen, they had Baker #1 and Saquon #2.

They would've gone QB if Baker was there so this wasn't about protecting Eli. Gettlemen obviously had some concerns with Darnold. As of today, jury is still out on Darnold so who knows he could be right.

I have never once heard that the Giants would have taken Mayfield, only that they were completely locked in on Barkley

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4 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I have never once heard that the Giants would have taken Mayfield, only that they were completely locked in on Barkley

It's open to interpretation, in a video after the draft Gettlemen said something like "Once Browns went Baker, we were going Saquon, period."

 

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13 hours ago, slats said:

I'd be shocked if the Jets traded before the draft. Too many variables. Murray to the Cards still seems surreal to me, no matter how many times I see it. When the time comes, one or two of Murray, Bosa, or Haskins will be available, and the Jets should be able to pull off a trade (provided they're not in love with Bosa - another variable). But beforehand, they can set up parameters with a team who wants Haskins and another that wants Bosa and one that wants Murray and then just sit back and watch the first two picks unfold. I'm sure they're trying to get themselves set up just like that (if they haven't already). 

I really think Mac traded to #3 expecting to land Mayfield. Whether or not he was genuinely happy to get Darnold instead, I don't know. Have to believe he was much happier than if Mayfield and Darnold went #1 & 2. Once Mayfield went #1, that was something I really thought could've happened. 

That Mac didn't pick Safety with the #3 is a minor miracle.

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18 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

That's what at the heart of the matter.

Last year the Giants had Saquan as the top prospect in the draft.... & rightly so.

It would require a boatload of picks to jump the Jets. SF has BOSA/Williams as the top pick..... Would they risk missing on one of those players to move down to #6 or #10, #11 OR 13 OR 15? I don't think so.

Jets are in the Catbird seat

I know I'm in a minority here, but from my perspective the only truly dominant defensive player at the top of the draft is Q. Williams. Bosa and Allen are not perfect specimens -- both have concerns and could well end up good but not great. Bosa in paricular has been overhyped. I think he's near his ceiling and the NFL is going to be a bit of a rude awakening. 

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6 hours ago, johnnysd said:

This drives me nuts. In no situation for a team needing a QB is Saquan the top prospect over Darnold. Ever. Giants were idiots

Situations are totally different from fact. Barkley was the top talent in that draft. Now you can argue that certain positions should be weighted on a different scale, but as a pure can't miss talent..... it was Saquan.

It is what it is..... I agree Giants need a QB, but talent wise Saquan is special.

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9 hours ago, Gunnails said:

The Gray Catbird or Dumetella carolinensis.

Or you can just call it a bird.

I like how you properly capitalized genus and lower cased your species

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9 hours ago, Gunnails said:

The Gray Catbird or Dumetella carolinensis.

Or you can just call it a bird.

I like how you properly capitalized genus and lower cased your species

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The phrase is said to derive from the habit of the catbird of sitting on the highest point it can find to deliver its song, thus suggesting an effortless superiority. Subscriber Dan Lufkin confirmed this in an e-mail: “If you lived in catbird country, as I do, you would instantly recognize the catbird seat as the highest point in your yard, from which a catbird — or its cousin, a mockingbird — begins loudly staking its territorial claim at first light, typically about 4:45 a.m. in the nesting season.”

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I think it all comes down to expectations.  If the expectation is to make a deep run in the playoffs this year (very unlikely), then trading back is the better option.  If we're being more realistic, I think staying at 3 and taking a great player to build around is the way to go.  The remaining holes can be filled next offseason.  The exception is Mac MUST, MUST, MUST find a real starter at center this year.

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2 hours ago, BettyBoop said:

I think it all comes down to expectations.  If the expectation is to make a deep run in the playoffs this year (very unlikely), then trading back is the better option.  If we're being more realistic, I think staying at 3 and taking a great player to build around is the way to go.  The remaining holes can be filled next offseason.  The exception is Mac MUST, MUST, MUST find a real starter at center this year.

Did you mean the opposite? If a team were near a deep playoff run, wouldn’t 1 high draft pick be the thing to put them on top. How do a bunch of young raw players help a playoff team???

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46 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

 

LOL.  you think they'd be broadcasting the fact if they wanted Haskins?  none of those guys is going top 5.

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20 hours ago, jgb said:

It's open to interpretation, in a video after the draft Gettlemen said something like "Once Browns went Baker, we were going Saquon, period."

 

Umm, yeah the only way they don't take Barkley is if the Browns take Barkley. That statement is not saying if Browns take Darnold we take Mayfield.

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56 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Umm, yeah the only way they don't take Barkley is if the Browns take Barkley. That statement is not saying if Browns take Darnold we take Mayfield.

Ahhhh I see your point now thanks

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On 3/25/2019 at 7:59 PM, 32EBoozer said:

Worst case scenario we take either Bose, Williams or Allen. I don’t think Greg Williams will have a problem with that!

 

 

They call that a WIN WIN WIN

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Google is your friend

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/87600.html

 

What's the meaning of the phrase 'In the catbird seat'?

In a superior or advantageous position.

What's the origin of the phrase 'In the catbird seat'?

This is an American phrase - which is unsurprising as the grey catbird which is the probable source of the phrase is a North American species (there's also an Australian catbird). It's one of a group of birds called the mimic thrushes. They include mockingbirds and, as you might expect, they are adept mimics. The catbird is named for its ability to mimic the sound of a cat's miaow.

in the catbird seatCatbirds seek out the highest perches in trees to sing and display. The allusion to that is most likely to be the derivation of the term. It may also be the source of an earlier term with much the same meaning - 'sitting pretty'.

The phrase appears to have originated in the American south, although the date and circumstances are uncertain. There's certainly an association with the sport of baseball, and most of the early citations of the phrase mention the game. That includes the first mention of it in print, in James Thurber's 55 Short Stories from New Yorker, November 1942:

"She must be a Dodger fan. Red Barber announces the Dodger games over the radio and he uses those expressions... 'sitting in the catbird seat' means sitting pretty, like a batter with three balls and no strikes on him."

See also: in the box-seat.

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On 3/25/2019 at 8:10 PM, Dinamite said:

I also think that he had some inside knowledge that the Giants were going Barkley all the way and not moving from that pick.

Probably figured it when Gettleman wouldn't take any phone calls. 

Thank God he's not my GM. That kind of self inflicted ignorance would drive me crazy. 

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