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Gase speaks at League Meeting


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18 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The question isn't about money. The question is are we better with Mosley or without him. The answer is we're better with him. Who gives a sh*t what they paid him or anybody in FA? It's about winning games not pinching pennies.

There is, in fact, a salary cap in this league.

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10 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Looking forward to that interior pressure reproducing the 1.5 sacks over the past two years here!

This isn't a debate about if CJ Mosely is good.  He is.  The question is if he's worth 17M/per and to be the top paid ILB in football.  He isn't.

The question isn't if we have the "top ILB in the NFL."  We may.  The question is, does it matter?  Probably not.

Meanwhile, Baltimore, who was #1 in Total Defense and #1 in Points/Game let him go.  Didn't think he was essential to keep around.

I agree he may be overpaid but I think him being the player he is and being the best available, we had to pay to get him from the Ravens who also wanted him.

I think you are underestimating the impact he will have in the middle of that defense next to a player like Williamson. The Pats have destroyed us in the short middle for years that stops now or at least it should stop. I also think people do not take into account the importance of a running game even in this passing era, teams that have a 100 yard rusher or good rushing stats usually win games at a very good clip. Sure you can argue that point by saying the rushing stats are inflated due too big leads and running games out, but stopping the run plays a big part in putting teams in 3rd and long situations and that's what wins games as well. I think that's the plan here with Williams. Also good rushing teams control games and wear opposing defense out. By having an elite run stopping team you make opponents one dimensional. If we get Bosa or Allen or even Williams this defense has the chance to be Elite very quickly. 

We can discuss variables all day long but we will have to see how Williams uses these LB's since he is of the Blitzing mindset. 

Also Mosely was a big part of that Number 1 defense since he called the defense and will do that hear as well. 

When it comes to Money its hard to say what the Ravens could or could not afford teams have to make tough choices maybe they felt they could fill that hole left by Mosely easier than plugging another one.

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14 minutes ago, choon328 said:

2019 Franchise and Transition Tenders

Position Franchise Tag Transition Tag
QB $24,865,000 $22,783,000
DE $17,128,000 $14,360,000
WR $16,787,000 $14,794,000
CB $16,022,000 $13,703,000
LB $15,443,000 $13,222,000
DT $15,209,000 $12,378,000
OL $14,067,000 $12,866,000
RB $11,214,000 $9,099,000
S $11,150,000 $9,531,000
TE $10,387,000 $8,815,000
ST $4,971,000

$4,537,000

 

They're right in the middle of the pack. This is based on the average of the Top 5 at each position.

This includes all LBs, not ILB.  Looking for the data which parses it out, as elite pass rushers are a different animal entirely.  If I can't find it, it can be done in a few minutes on OTC.

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27 minutes ago, choon328 said:

What did they do to address edge rusher? Nothing. That was the "nothing" that I was talking about

They got a former Pro Bowl OL, a Pro Bowl LB, a valuable slot receiver that Gase likes and uses.  They did address edge, but he changed his mind and bolted.  They did pretty well, filling a number of needs.  I'm not getting bent out of shape and crying about the one who got away.  No one ever thought they were filling every single need in one offseason FA spending spree.

Almost no one ;)

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31 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Then why, on average, are they one of the lowest compensated positions in the league?

Thats a better barometer than all those great LB who played on the inside, led their defenses?  

Funny thing is of the three highest paid defensive positions, two are safety and strong safety.  Should I throw that to the anti Jamal crew?  lol

As I said, FA and supply and demand is what makes contracts what they are.  Not totally talent levels.  Player A can be better than Player B but hit the open market at the right time and recently.  Hes going to make a lot more, especially if the only option at that position.  Its not totally due to whos worth what.  

 

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Really impressive, and can see why he is so respected in the NFL. He knows is stuff and communicates it really well. I liked the hire, but he has the potential to be even better than I hoped.


Do you think his interview skills are more important than his actual performance as a head coach?





Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

24:25:31
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3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Because he's a good football player, and they were interested in keeping him at what they viewed as a fair price.

So 15 is fair, but 17 is just crossing over the line? Gonna guess the Ravens didn't have the space. I guess the jets having so much cap space available allows them to overpay 2 mill and it isn't an issue. It's nice when a team is cap prudent.

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

 


Do you think his interview skills are more important than his actual performance as a head coach?





Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

24:25:31

 

To those who cant see past w/l record, refuse to recognize some reasons behind the record.  Like losing your starting QB for most of 2 seasons.  Hard to judge that way.  

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29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

They got a former Pro Bowl OL, a Pro Bowl LB, a valuable slot receiver that Gase likes and uses.  They did address edge, but he changed his mind and bolted.  They did pretty well, filling a number of needs.  I'm not getting bent out of shape and crying about the one who got away.  No one ever thought they were filling every single need in one offseason FA spending spree.

Almost no one ;)

Try reading again. I was talking strictly about addressing the huge hole at edge rusher. And just bc they tried means nothing. What was the bigger need ILB or Edge?

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10 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

So 15 is fair, but 17 is just crossing over the line? Gonna guess the Ravens didn't have the space. I guess the jets having so much cap space available allows them to overpay 2 mill and it isn't an issue. It's nice when a team is cap prudent.

I don't know if 15 is fair.  I wouldn't have wanted to pay that either.  But, I'd be more inclined to pay my own player than another teams.

Bottom line, even Macc homers calling this an overpay.  It is.  We also needed to spend money, so there's that.  But, we just spent 17M per on a non premium position.

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34 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Thats a better barometer than all those great LB who played on the inside, led their defenses?  

Funny thing is of the three highest paid defensive positions, two are safety and strong safety.  Should I throw that to the anti Jamal crew?  lol

 As I said, FA and supply and demand is what makes contracts what they are.  Not totally talent levels.  Player A can be better than Player B but hit the open market at the right time and recently.  Hes going to make a lot more, especially if the only option at that position.  Its not totally due to whos worth what.  

  

MLB in a 3-4 is different than ILB in a 4-3.  Also, the fact that you can point to superstars at the position throughout history doesn't mean that you should pay an above average player like he's a super star.

I don't disagree about supply and demand.  But, that doesn't mean we needed to be the team to do it.

Where is the safety data coming from.  They're also one of the lower paid positions.

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3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

That's because we've been a team devoid of any talent.

Being bad and then making bad decisions doesn't necessarily make you good.

So signing a Top 3 ILB was a bad decision for this team? We're devoid of talent yet you're complaining they signed a difference maker on defense? So bc the team is bad they should just continue to stay bad to punish themselves for not being good at drafting? Makes total sense

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4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

MLB in a 3-4 is different than ILB in a 4-3.  Also, the fact that you can point to superstars at the position throughout history doesn't mean that you should pay an above average player like he's a super star.

I don't disagree about supply and demand.  But, that doesn't mean we needed to be the team to do it.

If you think he's just above average then you've never seen him play. Which explains a lot.

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13 minutes ago, choon328 said:

So signing a Top 3 ILB was a bad decision for this team? We're devoid of talent yet you're complaining they signed a difference maker on defense? So bc the team is bad they should just continue to stay bad to punish themselves for not being good at drafting? Makes total sense

No matter how many ways you talk about positional value and building through the draft, it’s apparently not going to get through to you, huh?

12 minutes ago, choon328 said:

If you think he's just above average then you've never seen him play. Which explains a lot.

Elite run stopper, mediocre is pass coverage.  Good thing it’s 1987, I guess.

Again, the #1 defense in yards and points allowed him to leave.

11 minutes ago, choon328 said:

All of the contracts they just handed out will be done by then.

Not if they do what they should and extend Darnold early.

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56 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Crowder and Bell are going to be terrors in the short passing game ...same kind of short passing game the Patriots made a living out of for the past 18 years. When they start getting chunks of yards teams will have to respect that and that will open everything up for the WR's and the TE. 

If Darnold is everything we think he is this offense will be top ten next year and be a number 1 WR away from elite status of course this all hinges on Darnold and that's not a bad place to be in considering where we have been the last 20 years

I agree with you 100%. I like Gase, but if there's one thing that annoys me it his penchant for the phrase "on the edge of playoff contention come December." He seems to use it a lot, and yet wtf does it mean? Is going into the last month at 5-7, 6-6, where you're hoping to be? Because that's the edge. How about demanding more?

Last year the consensus on this board was that the rookie QB needed a year of experience and then he would take a step forward and become one of the elite QBs in the league. The defensive minded HC was clueless, as was the OC. He had no skill players around him, and a center who couldn't snap the ball. We had a DC who was horrible, and could not, along with the HC, make in game adjustments.

This year the Jets have hired an offensive minded second time HC , and a veteran DC who we've hailed as a guru to change the culture around the team. We spent a ton in FA. We have a QB who should be ready to lead an improved offense with plenty of skill position talent at RB, TE and WR. We've acquired the most talented, versatile offensive weapon to perhaps ever hit the FA market in Bell. We've signed the best slot WR available in Crowder, the best LB in Mosely, and traded for a road grader type OL in Osmele. Granted, C could use an upgrade, yet as Gase said, Harrison showed he can play well enough against the 3-4 defenses we'll be seeing the most of next year.

We haven't had our draft yet, and when its followed by even more acquisitions following the draft and TC, I think we'll have a solid all around team capable of 10 wins, and at the very least a Wild Card. Why not aim high for once?

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6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

No matter how many ways you talk about positional value and building through the draft, it’s apparently not going to get through to you, huh?

Elite run stopper, mediocre is pass coverage.  Good thing it’s 1987, I guess.

Again, the #1 defense in yards and points allowed him to leave.

Not if they do what they should and extend Darnold early.

Yeah you can't extend 1st round picks till after their 4th year at the earliest. It's an NFL policy.

The fundamental idea of building through the draft is so overrated. If you have 7 picks in a draft, 1 in each round,  on average 2 may eventually become starters and that number is most likely 1.

It is a fact that you have a better probability of an UDFA (13.6%) becoming a starter than a 3rd (12.6%), 4th (10.8%), 5th (6.4%), 6th (4.9%) or 7th (4.2%) round pick.  

A team has to be built through the draft, FA and trades.

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2 hours ago, mrcoops said:

Yes, the Jets overpaid for Mosley. But they had to, as they wanted to pry him away from the Ravens. If the offers were equal, or even close, he would have just stayed in Baltimore.

As it was, the Ravens were prepared to make him the highest paid ILB in the NFL. I think I read that their last offer was for around $14M a year.

So, at $17M a year, the Jets 'overpaid' compared to the Ravens' offer. But they did what they had to do to get him to sign. Given that he's an elite player at his position, I have no problem with them pushing the financial envelope to secure his signature.

He was one of their TOP priorities this offseason.. I had mentioned him casually as a FA to watch for, i knew they coveted him, but i think everyone was kind of thinking the ravens would go ahead and franchise him.  Shockingly they let him hit FA and the jets rightfully pounced.  Greg was all over this move, this was a guy he wanted and needed badly. His defense is very complex and it requires a true middle of the field general to organize and make the calls.  Very similar to how rex's defense was very dense and complex you needed people that could be smart in diagnosing offenses and make calls and set the defense.  David harris was instrumental in doing that here for Rex, as was Bart who knew the system inside and out from his time with rex in baltimore.  CJ will be that for Greg here and it was something, if you watched the jets defense last year, that they sorely needed.  Neither Lee nor Williamson did a good job setting the defense and making presnap adjustments, hence why a lot of guys were "out of position" last season.  That should be cleaned up with this signing. 

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I’m ok with what we spent. Especially since the two we spent the most for are easily the two best players on the team now. Also the trade for KO was great because it didn’t cost much and he’s now our best o lineman. Add a couple starters in the draft and I’d say we’ve had a great offseason 

 

now let’s see what Gase and Williams can do, there’s enough talent to be a competitive team 

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

agree he may be overpaid but I think him being the player he is and being the best available, we had to pay to get him from the Ravens who also wanted him.

People aren’t understanding this enough. The Jets are....the Jets. To get actual great players like CJ Mosley to leave the consistently well performing franchise and culture that he was drafted into .... you have to create a actual gap between what the Ravens and the other teams are willing to pay.

we did that.

we gave him a reason to consider us and that was in the form of 17mill per

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7 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

If Gase knew the Giants would go Saquon, then its safe to assume Macc knew the Giants were going Saquon. Takes a lot of the "Macc got lucky as hell" arguments out

Did macc know that Cleveland was taking Mayfield???

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7 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

When the GM keeps saying the number two pick has to be someone who gets the gold jacket and the surest bet is the RB everyone keeps talking up and the GM also tells all that the QB on the roster is still a top QB, it was pretty obvious who they were picking

unless you play poker  :)

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