Is it an indictment on Maccagnan that he was willing to give up a 6th overall pick plus three 2nd rounders for Rosen?

[redlichtie]

The Josh Rosen obituaries are a little premature no?

[genot]

7 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Macc wanted either Darnold or Mayfield.  He may have settled for Rosen but I think he was HIGHLY confident the Giants were going with Barkley.  Macc thought the Draft was going Darnold>Barkley>Mayfield.  It turns out he got the #1 guy on his Draft board.  Kudos to him.  You can't hit a pitch you don't swing at.  He swung hard and we're lucky he did.

Exactly. Do people actually think he wasn't obtaining or trying to obtain information about who the Giant's would select. Probably has reliable sources inside the Giants front office.

[rangerous]

7 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I don’t think so. Just because a move doesn’t work out doesn’t make it a bad move at the time. My biggest issue is making the absolute wrong move right out of the gate. Getting in position to draft 1 of those 3 QBs would only have been a bad move if their advanced scouting should have known that he’d be a train wreck.

I don’t think any team knew he’d be a train wreck and it’s still too early anyways to write off Rosen. Pure pocket passers will not function on teams with a terrible OL. 

yep.  rosen had some pretty high regard when drafted.  so did allen for that matter.  any of those qb's were much better than what the jets had at the time.  and, to be fair, there's a slim chance he would've had a better year on the jets.  he probably would've started because he was the shiny new toy.  if mac is to be faulted it's waiting so long to land a good qb and then effectively having to use a ton of draft picks when all it took was one or two more losses.  yeah i get this is a slippery slope but there was no reason for anyone to expect them to have a good year in 2017.  it just wasn't going to happen.

let's all be happy darnold is the guy they got and he continues to improve along with the team.

[Untouchable]

Not sure why people are still harping on this.

I don’t care if Macc lucked into Darnold or whatever.

Bottom line, Darnold is a Jet and that’s pretty f*cking awesome.

[Larz]

Please ban this troll 

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Not sure why people are still harping on this.

I don’t care if Macc lucked into Darnold or whatever.

Bottom line, Darnold is a Jet and that’s pretty f*cking awesome.

Macc’s trade moved us from a 0% chance at Baker or Darnold into a chance. That’s not luck that’s betting well.

[themeangreenkillingmachine]

Lol I remember 1/2 people on this board preferred Rosen > Darnold/Mayfield. Rosen was supposed to be the most NFL ready. 

I guarantee most people will forget that they hated the Gase signing by December. Actually... it only took a few days. 

[Sammybighead]

Listen, there is a lot to hate Mac over but this is not one of them. He scouted and focused on Sam for over a year before the draft. That was always his guy. The trade up to #3 was always with the intention of taking Sam or Baker in that order. If both were off the board, would he have taken Rosen? Maybe, but that's on an indictment of him, it would have just been our sh*tty luck. But for once the football gods smiled on us and the Giants blew it and took a RB and we got our guy. The bigger indictment of Mac is that his plan A was to pay cousins 100m gauranteed.

[jack48]

8 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I don’t think so. Just because a move doesn’t work out doesn’t make it a bad move at the time. My biggest issue is making the absolute wrong move right out of the gate. Getting in position to draft 1 of those 3 QBs would only have been a bad move if their advanced scouting should have known that he’d be a train wreck.

I don’t think any team knew he’d be a train wreck and it’s still too early anyways to write off Rosen. Pure pocket passers will not function on teams with a terrible OL. 

Didnt people know  the Giants were taking barley by then? Macc probably did.  He may have tried to trade up to two. That left Macc wih a shot at Mayfield and Darnold.  Both have turned out pretty well.

[Nixhead]

23 minutes ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

Lol I remember 1/2 people on this board preferred Rosen > Darnold/Mayfield. Rosen was supposed to be the most NFL ready. 

I guarantee most people will forget that they hated the Gase signing by December. Actually... it only took a few days. 

Your right on both counts. Yes alot of people on this board wanted Rosen - and half the board bitched about Gase. How do you want a QB that cant win games in college? I can see fans not liking Gase - and alot of those fans wanted Kliff K. - yeah that would of been great - another 1st time head coach. Ugggggg

[jgb]

1 hour ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

Lol I remember 1/2 people on this board preferred Rosen > Darnold/Mayfield. Rosen was supposed to be the most NFL ready. 

I guarantee most people will forget that they hated the Gase signing by December. Actually... it only took a few days. 

 

42 minutes ago, Nixhead said:

Your right on both counts. Yes alot of people on this board wanted Rosen - and half the board bitched about Gase. How do you want a QB that cant win games in college? I can see fans not liking Gase - and alot of those fans wanted Kliff K. - yeah that would of been great - another 1st time head coach. Ugggggg

Got no problem with people holding and expressing strong opinions... what chafes me is when people mock the opinions of others. Like being accused of political motives for predicting Rosen will stink.

[SMC]

9 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

It has been leaked that Macagnan traded up to 3 so he could get either Darnold, Baker or Rosen. If the Giants took Darnold like a lot of people expected if he fell to them Rosen would have gone to the Jets in exchange for three 2nd rounders and the 6th overall pick. Pretty astounding considering Cardinals are struggling to get one 2nd rounder for him a year later.

Mac has made some absurd decisions (Hack, Lee etc.), but criticizing a man for gambling and winning based on what might have happened, but didnt, is dumb.

[Creepy Lurker]

44 minutes ago, jack48 said:

Didnt people know  the Giants were taking barley by then? Macc probably did.  He may have tried to trade up to two. That left Macc wih a shot at Mayfield and Darnold.  Both have turned out pretty well.

I don’t think anyone knew anything for sure. Cleveland picking Mayfield over Darnold at least left the possibility that the Giants would draft Darnold. I don’t think the Giants would have drafted Mayfield but when Cleveland took Baker, I couldn’t see how the Giants could pass on Sam. They are idiots. 

[GREENBEAN]

9 hours ago, CurtMart said:

Is it an indictment on Mac he selected Hack in the 2nd round? 

When will you tire of creatively spinning non facts into reasons to reignite childlike feelings of waaaah waaaaaah?
I know we got the qb we wanted but what if???? Oh my god?? What if???

It’s called a gamble. And it worked. Just like going for it on fourth. Do you complain every time we go for it on fourth and make it? Oh no. But we could have lost the ball there.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Klecko73isGod]

9 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

It has been leaked that Macagnan traded up to 3 so he could get either Darnold, Baker or Rosen. If the Giants took Darnold like a lot of people expected if he fell to them Rosen would have gone to the Jets in exchange for three 2nd rounders and the 6th overall pick. Pretty astounding considering Cardinals are struggling to get one 2nd rounder for him a year later.

There's plenty we can bash Macc over. We don't need to invent sh*t based on things that didn't happen. 

[T0mShane]

Fanbase that vigorously fellates Jamal Adams retroactively uneasy about using high pick on 5-star QB prospect unafraid of expressing opinions on social media.

[Bruce Harper]

Luck is the residue of design.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Lith]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Not sure why people are still harping on this.

I don’t care if Macc lucked into Darnold or whatever.

Bottom line, Darnold is a Jet and that’s pretty f*cking awesome.

This. 

There are plenty of moves that Macc made over the past 4+ years that can be criticized.  And justifably so.  But to criticize him for a move that worked out.  That likely got us our franchise QB.  If we stayed at 6 and saw Darnold drop to 3, there could have been a bidding war on draft night and we probably would not have our 1st rounder this year (or we would not have Darnold).  And it is way too early to call Rosen a bust; just as it is way too early to put Sam in Canton.  It was a good move.  Whether it works out or not.  I al really looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

[UnitedWhofans]

9 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

It has been leaked that Macagnan traded up to 3 so he could get either Darnold, Baker or Rosen. If the Giants took Darnold like a lot of people expected if he fell to them Rosen would have gone to the Jets in exchange for three 2nd rounders and the 6th overall pick. Pretty astounding considering Cardinals are struggling to get one 2nd rounder for him a year later.

No he wasn't going to take Rosen. He knew that the Giants were going to take Barkley and that he would end up with either Darnold or Mayfield, depending on whom CLeveland chose

[Bruce Harper]

9 hours ago, HelenOfTroy said:

A lot of people on here wanted Rosen.  
I read the Draft thread.  
Also fans on YouTube, including the JetsCentral kid who wanted to kill himself when you drafted Sam.  
Not now.
[/url]  

When the Mayfield to the Browns rumors started swirling I posted a poll here of Rosen v Darnold and Rosen won. But I think that was because people had been in a Rosen v Mayfield frame of mind for weeks. After Browns management sat with Sam’s family at his pro day everybody thought it was a fait accompli.

I think it is nothing short of ridiculous that we are bashing Macc because he “could have” drafted Rosen. Did he overpay on the draft chart? Yes. Did we get our guy for the next ten years? Yes. He deserves credit for this move, not blame.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, Lith said:

This. 

There are plenty of moves that Macc made over the past 4+ years that can be criticized.  And justifably so.  But to criticize him for a move that worked out.  That likely got us our franchise QB.  If we stayed at 6 and saw Darnold drop to 3, there could have been a bidding war on draft night and we probably would not have our 1st rounder this year (or we would not have Darnold).  And it is way too early to call Rosen a bust; just as it is way too early to put Sam in Canton.  It was a good move.  Whether it works out or not.  I al really looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

Trading up to three to get a QB is easily the crowning achievement of the Mike Maccagnan Era, even if it was largely executed by Brian Heimerdinger.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Trading up to three to get a QB is easily the crowning achievement of the Mike Maccagnan Era, even if it was largely executed by Brian Heimerdinger.

This would have so much more sting if it were true.

[greenwave81]

9 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

It has been leaked that Macagnan traded up to 3 so he could get either Darnold, Baker or Rosen. If the Giants took Darnold like a lot of people expected if he fell to them Rosen would have gone to the Jets in exchange for three 2nd rounders and the 6th overall pick. Pretty astounding considering Cardinals are struggling to get one 2nd rounder for him a year later.

Part of the reason for the 3 2nd rders was to protect this years 1st rder. 

And you have no idea if the Jets had Rosen ranked as the 3rd QB last year...may have been Allen. 

[Jet Nut]

So lets recap.

We now have stopped complaining, rightfully so, about the many screw ups Macc has on his resume, we've moved even deeper.

We're complaining about a pick he didn't make, for a player we have no idea that he liked or disliked, a player who we have no idea where his ceiling is?  Because we're guessing no one has made an offer for Rosen?  Or even that AZ is looking to trade him.  A guy who just about every so called expert had rated as the #1 or #2 ranked QB over their last 2 seasons.  

 

[Morrissey]

No, Rosen is still a great prospect. I still like him more than Darnold. Best thing for Rosen would be to get traded, Cardinals are a sh*t show. 

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

This would have so much more sting if it were true.

YOU ARE THE INTERNET'S LAZIEST HOMERRRRRRRRRRR 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/16/new-york-jets-sam-darnold-2018-draft

 

JANUARY 22, 2018

It’s Senior Bowl week. Heimerdinger meets Colts VP of player personnel Ed Dodds at the hotel bar at the Battlehouse in Mobile, Ala. Indianapolis has the No. 3 pick. The Jets have the No. 6 pick again, and a Plan A and Plan B at quarterback. Plan A: Sign Kirk Cousins, who has played in Bates’s offense and is a favorite of 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan, who happens to have strong ties to both Bates and Heimerdinger. Plan B: Trade up for one of the 2018 quarterbacks.

The conversation between Heimerdinger and Dodds gets the wheels turning on the latter. And that principle Maccagnan has of not going crazy—like, say, Washington did in 2012 to get Robert Griffin III—for anyone but a once-in-30-years guy like Luck? That colors the conversation, with the second-rounder from the Richardson trade an essential piece to pulling off the Jets’ goal of holding on to all future first-round picks.

Heimerdinger and Dodds leave Mobile with an agreement to keep talking. And thus, the Jets accomplish a goal. Based on the year-long focus on the position—Maccagnan had a scout live at just about every USC, UCLA, Oklahoma and Wyoming game—the feeling is they’re ahead of others in assessing the class. The hope is that readiness to pull the trigger before the market is fully developed could lead to a reasonable deal.

 

MARCH 4, 2018

 

Heimerdinger and Dodds meet for a drink at the JW Marriott bar in Indy. Heimerdinger inquires if other teams have asked about the third pick. Both leave with the idea of continuing talks if the Jets’ pursuit of Cousins fails.

 

MARCH 13, 2018

Cousins’s agent, Mike McCartney, calls the Jets early evening to deliver bad news—they weren’t out of the race for his client, but Minnesota would be the first visit and there was no guarantee the quarterback would leave there without signing.

There is no waiting on Plan B for the Jets. They immediately pivot to try to secure McCown and Teddy Bridgewater, while pursuing other free agents with money that would have gone to Cousins. Maccagnan had promoted Heimerdinger to vice president 10 months earlier, so he trusted his No. 2 to lead the effort from the team facility. That frees the GM up to fly to Norman, Okla., for Mayfield’s March 14 pro day, then to Los Angeles for Rosen’s pro day on March 16.

On Thursday, March 15, Dodds passes Heimerdinger off to Ballard, and the deal is done early Saturday. The Jets send their slotted second-rounders for 2018 and ’19, plus the Richardson second-rounder, to Indy to move up from 6 to 3, knowing there are three QBs they’d value there. Maccagnan and Heimerdinger call Johnson for his sign-off. It’s not hard to get.

 

[Dcat]

Quote

Is it an indictment on Maccagnan that he was willing to give up a 6th overall pick plus three 2nd rounders for Rosen?

It should be.  But it's not.

[mrcoops]

He made the move to get Darnold or Mayfield, and he was right to do so. It was a gutsy move, and he paid a high price to get the pick, but it was 100% the right move at the right time.

In all probability, he thought he was guaranteeing Mayfield with an outside shot at Darnold. 

Rosen might have been an emergency fallback option, in the unlikely event that the Giants passed on Barkley for a QB.

It was a gutsy move that worked out well. I'm glad that it did, as Mayfield and Darnold are both going to be very good QBs for a long time.

Not sold on Rosen at all but, thankfully, I don't have to be.

[Jet Nut]

28 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

YOU ARE THE INTERNET'S LAZIEST HOMERRRRRRRRRRR 

 

 

Who sent him to Indy?

Who went into the draft wanting to move up? 

The idea that Heimerdinger on his own, initiated talks and then made the trade on his own and gets credit for the trade is the most ridiculous piece of fiction that youre trying to apply to the situation.  Macc sent him out to finalize the deal, smartly sent Heimerdinger because he had a past relationship with the Colts. 

Who is the only one in the Jets FO who has the power to make a move?  Trade is on the table, Heimerdinger wants to trade up, Macc doesnt, who wins that argument?  

Macc gets no credit.  Lazy?  Back at you

[PepPep]

10 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

It has been leaked that Macagnan traded up to 3 so he could get either Darnold, Baker or Rosen. If the Giants took Darnold like a lot of people expected if he fell to them Rosen would have gone to the Jets in exchange for three 2nd rounders and the 6th overall pick. Pretty astounding considering Cardinals are struggling to get one 2nd rounder for him a year later.

I thought everybody and their grandmother knew the Giants were taking Saquon. I mean, not fans, but GMs. So wouldn't that mean the Jets ended up with Mayfield, who ended up having a pretty darn good rookie season? The Buzz was that they preferred Mayfield to Rosen anyway. 

[kdels62]

This thread is the worst place on the internet.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Who sent him to Indy?

Who started talks at the GM meetings?

The idea that Heimerdinger on his own, initiated talks and then made the trade is the most ridiculous piece of fiction that some apply to the situation.  Macc sent him out to finalize the deal, smartly sent Heimerdinger because he had a past relationship with the Colts. 

Macc gets no credit.  Lazy?  Back at you

Exactly. It's like how I paid an orthopedic surgeon to fix my shoulder that one time and now I can tell people that I, too, am an orthopedic surgeon.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Exactly. It's like how I paid an orthopedic surgeon to fix my shoulder that one time and now I can tell people that I, too, am an orthopedic surgeon.

Its exactly not that situation.

 

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No he wasn't going to take Rosen. He knew that the Giants were going to take Barkley and that he would end up with either Darnold or Mayfield, depending on whom CLeveland chose

^Worst post of the year.

Prove it!  This is pure speculation, nothing more.  It's what you WANT to believe so therefore you profess it to be true.  

You don't know that.  We don't know that and it's just as likely to be false as it is to be true. 

[UnitedWhofans]

10 minutes ago, Dcat said:

^Worst post of the year.

Prove it!  This is pure speculation, nothing more.  It's what you WANT to believe so therefore you profess it to be true.  

You don't know that.  We don't know that and it's just as likely to be false as it is to be true. 

 

This was a quote from yesterday's presser. If Adam Gase, the head coach of another team not even in the picture knew the Giants were going to take Barkley, it would therefore be logical and perfectly reasonable to say that Mike Maccagnan, the GM of a team IN THE SAME AREA as the team in question and looking to trade would know that too