Is it an indictment on Maccagnan that he was willing to give up a 6th overall pick plus three 2nd rounders for Rosen?

[slats]

46 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

No, Rosen is still a great prospect. I still like him more than Darnold. Best thing for Rosen would be to get traded, Cardinals are a sh*t show. 

Rosen to the Patriots would be an absolute disaster for us. That's the organization that would build around her. The jints, too. He's still a great passer, but really needs everything in place, I feel, to succeed. Guys like Mayfield, Darnold, and Allen all can make things happen with their feet. They're all capable improvisers. But put Rosen in an effective system, he'll be dangerous. 

Translation: he'd sucked worse here than he did on the Cards last year. 

[Dcat]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

 

This was a quote from yesterday's presser. If Adam Gase, the head coach of another team not even in the picture knew the Giants were going to take Barkley, it would therefore be logical and perfectly reasonable to say that Mike Maccagnan, the GM of a team IN THE SAME AREA as the team in question an looking to trade would know that too

Nice try, but this doesn't prove what you so desperately want it to prove.  It is the same nonsensical speculation and surmising without any proof that you do constantly.

Again...  you only WISH that Maccagnan knew for sure that the Giants were going to take Barkley no matter what.  You can not prove it.  Your contention is just wishful thinking in your forever desperate attempts to defend the doofus we have as GM.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Dcat said:

Nice try, but this doesn't prove what you so desperately want it to prove.

Again...  you only WISH that Maccagnan knew for sure theat the Giants were going to take Barkley no matter what.  You can not prove it.  Your contention is just wishful thinking in your forever desperate attempts to defend the doofus we have as GM.

And instead of explaining why it doesn't prove it, or giving proof in general that he didn't know, you throw insults instead. This just tells me I'm right, because you have no logical or reasonable response to counter my logical deduction.

In other words: You have no leg to stand on and you are trying to deflect the argument by throwing a hissy fit.

[sec101row23]

The real indictment against Maccagnan is that plan A was to give Kirk Cousins $33 million per year to play QB....Lol. 

The trading up was a result of being used yet again in a negotiation, luck was on Maccagnan’s side with how the draft fell.  

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

The real indictment against Maccagnan is that plan A was to give Kirk Cousins $33 million per year to play QB....Lol. 

The trading up was a result of being used yet again in a negotiation, luck was on Maccagnan’s side with how the draft fell.  

Agree with the first two points.  And I think it's fair to say that he was lucky in the abstract that there was a stud player like Barkley in addition to the QBs to gum up the works.

So he was lucky that Saquon was in the top part to begin with but knowing the Giants would take him was not luck IMO.

Much better argument than Dcat

[jgb]

21 minutes ago, slats said:

Rosen to the Patriots would be an absolute disaster for us. That's the organization that would build around her. The jints, too. He's still a great passer, but really needs everything in place, I feel, to succeed. Guys like Mayfield, Darnold, and Allen all can make things happen with their feet. They're all capable improvisers. But put Rosen in an effective system, he'll be dangerous. 

Translation: he'd sucked worse here than he did on the Cards last year. 

I really fear Rosen to pats. Belichick knows exactly how to use a QB like him.

that said I am not confident that Macc would’ve gone baker had browns taken darnold

[CanadaSteve]

To clarify:

Its an indictment for a G.M. to make a great trade that DID land the QB he wanted, but terrible that had he not of got the QB he wanted, and perhaps his second choice, he would have had to settle for his third choice, which didn't happen?

Starting to rethink my entire position on "Say No To Drugs is B.S." 

[themeangreenkillingmachine]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

 

Got no problem with people holding and expressing strong opinions... what chafes me is when people mock the opinions of others. Like being accused of political motives for predicting Rosen will stink.

I don't mind strong opinions either,  but when people do a complete 180 and then have a strong opposite opinion as if they never thought differently before is ridiculous. 

People will deny they were wrong at all costs

[More Cowbell]

What is it with some posters around here. We can't  ever say Mac gambled and won, no, we have to imagine the worst case scenario  even when the best case actually happens

[Dcat]

33 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

And instead of explaining why it doesn't prove it, or giving proof in general that he didn't know, you throw insults instead. This just tells me I'm right, because you have no logical or reasonable response to counter my logical deduction.

In other words: You have no leg to stand on and you are trying to deflect the argument by throwing a hissy fit.

 You are not right.  Nothing I wrote "tells you" you are right.  You haven't the foggiest clue whether or not Maccagnan "knew" that Gettleman was going to take Barkley.  You claim that "everyone" "Gase" "Maccagnan" even yourself, "knew.  THe truth: You didn't know, and you presently do not know any such thing.  Pure speculation.  You reach your conclusioon because you want to believe that.  There is not one shred of evidence, including the opinion in the tweet you so cherish, to tell us whether or not Mac "knew" what Gettleman was going to do.

What you claim is a "logical deduction" is merely hopeful speculation.  The response to your assertion is "prove it, bud".  You can't.  Therefore your assertion is only speculation and is no way confirmed or valid.  

[bitonti]

10 hours ago, dcJet said:

Would Macc have taken Barkley if the draft went Mayfield, Darnold?

yes. Saquon Barkley would have been the pick at 3, had Mayfield and Darnold gone 1-2

Josh Rosen stinks out loud 

[HelenOfTroy]

1 hour ago, Bruce Harper said:

When the Mayfield to the Browns rumors started swirling I posted a poll here of Rosen v Darnold and Rosen won. But I think that was because people had been in a Rosen v Mayfield frame of mind for weeks. After Browns management sat with Sam’s family everybody thought it was a fait accompli.

I think it is nothing short of ridiculous that we are bashing Macc because he “could have” drafted Rosen. Did he overpay on the draft chart? Yes. Did we get our guy for the next ten years? Yes. He deserves credit for this move, not blame.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Nice spin.  But that’s ok, the guy you guys didn’t want has promise, that counts for something.

[Bruce Harper]

This thread is the equivalent of criticizing a poker player for going all in with three of a kind and winning a huge pot, because he "could have" lost to a flush.  He didn't lose -- he won.  He took a calculated gamble and came out on top. 

Some of you guys need to curb your Macc hatred and reserve your criticisms of him for bad moves that he actually made, not for bad moves that he could have made.  I am confident that it won't be long before this trade is looked on as one of the best trades in Jets franchise history.  Equally silly is trying to give credit to his underlings and not to him.  He is the GM.  He gets the blame.  He gets the credit.

Let's just hope he gets a little better at drafting after the top of the first round.

[Bruce Harper]

4 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Nice spin.  But that’s ok, the guy you guys didn’t want has promise, that counts for something.

Someone get me a translator.  Who didn't I want?  I voted for Darnold.  What was I spinning?

[slats]

54 minutes ago, jgb said:

I really fear Rosen to pats. Belichick knows exactly how to use a QB like him.

that said I am not confident that Macc would’ve gone baker had browns taken darnold

It’s funny, because I’m not sure that Baker wasn’t his first choice with Darnold being his consolation prize. 

[Savage69]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Nice try, but this doesn't prove what you so desperately want it to prove.  It is the same nonsensical speculation and surmising without any proof that you do constantly.

Again...  you only WISH that Maccagnan knew for sure that the Giants were going to take Barkley no matter what.  You can not prove it.  Your contention is just wishful thinking in your forever desperate attempts to defend the doofus we have as GM.

Maybe he saw the mock drafts that had the Giants taking Barkley?? 

[UnknownJetFan]

12 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

It has been leaked that Macagnan traded up to 3 so he could get either Darnold, Baker or Rosen. If the Giants took Darnold like a lot of people expected if he fell to them Rosen would have gone to the Jets in exchange for three 2nd rounders and the 6th overall pick. Pretty astounding considering Cardinals are struggling to get one 2nd rounder for him a year later.

Yes, but, prior to that move to 3 Mac had fairly solid info the team we are roomates with would take Barkley at 2 and wanted him badly enough that unless another team would trade like 2 drafts worth of picks that was the Giants pick. So, realistically Mac's trade up was knowing 98% that the QB was going to either be Mayfield or Darnold either of which was worth the trade up.

[Defense Wins Championships]

We landed Darnold that's all that matters.

But who's to say that Rosen's career is to written off after only 1 year? Even if Arizona quits on him, it's not over until it's over. Plenty QB's sucked after one rookie season only to become very good to if not greatness. It's called growing pains and learning from them. 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

yes. Saquon Barkley would have been the pick at 3, had Mayfield and Darnold gone 1-2

Josh Rosen stinks out loud 

No way - the Jets were all in on a QB.  He traded up to get one of 3 QB's - who 3 on their board was is still a questions - but there is no doubt, at least in my mind, the Jets were taking a QB.

FWIW - my guess is we were taking Allen.

[bitonti]

28 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

No way - the Jets were all in on a QB.  He traded up to get one of 3 QB's - who 3 on their board was is still a questions - but there is no doubt, at least in my mind, the Jets were taking a QB.

FWIW - my guess is we were taking Allen.

1

Mac wasn't trading up for Allen or Rosen, 2 players who would be available at 6

Barkley was the safety school alternative to Darnold, Baker (in that order) 

[dcJet]

7 hours ago, redlichtie said:

The Josh Rosen obituaries are a little premature no?

Not if you've seen him play.  You can't fix scared.

[Bruce Harper]

13 hours ago, CurtMart said:

Yeah that was my first thought. 3 second rounders and the 6th overall just for a chance to select the third best QB of the draft? It’s a fact Mac got lucked into Darnold n now he gets to take the accolades. 

Just like he would have been clobbered if he took Rosen and it turned out Rosen sucked (which has not yet been determined).  Results are what GMs are judged on.  Not hypotheticals.  He has made plenty of moves that we can criticize him for.  This isn't one of them.

[Integrity28]

As many said at the time, the Giants saved Mac from Mac. This is a hypothetical outcome and really not worth debating. We already know he sucks as a GM.

[dcJet]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Trading up to three to get a QB is easily the crowning achievement of the Mike Maccagnan Era, even if it was largely executed by Brian Heimerdinger.

You just can't let yourself to compliment Macc without a qualifier in there. 

 

 

[southparkcpa]

13 hours ago, DJF71 said:

So glad the Browns passed on Darnold.

I think most Browns fans agree. Mayfield looks like the real deal. LOVE Darnold, but Mayfield looks impressive.

[CTJetsFan]

13 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

It has been leaked that Macagnan traded up to 3 so he could get either Darnold, Baker or Rosen. If the Giants took Darnold like a lot of people expected if he fell to them Rosen would have gone to the Jets in exchange for three 2nd rounders and the 6th overall pick. Pretty astounding considering Cardinals are struggling to get one 2nd rounder for him a year later.

Hindsight is always 20/20. IF what you says is true (and the 3rd QB was Rosen and not Allen), I actually am ok with it. When the trade was made it left no doubt that there had to be 3 QBs that the Jets liked.....or 2 if Macc had the same info as Gase had that the Giants were going Barkley if the Browns didn't take him at 1. Macc was probably pretty sure Barkley was going #1 or #2.

The rankings/opinions of the 3 (4 if you include Allen) varied. The majority (not all) had Darnold as #1. Majority had Mayfeld & Rosen (in either order) 2nd & 3rd and most had Allen 4th.

[dcJet]

Rosen has that sanchezien panic in him.  It a terminal disease for a QB. 

I hope he goes to the Pats, and I hope Sanchez becomes his backup.

[GREENBEAN]

Nice try, but this doesn't prove what you so desperately want it to prove.  It is the same nonsensical speculation and surmising without any proof that you do constantly.
Again...  you only WISH that Maccagnan knew for sure that the Giants were going to take Barkley no matter what.  You can not prove it.  Your contention is just wishful thinking in your forever desperate attempts to defend the doofus we have as GM.

Hey. Your point is equally difficult to prove ya know.

The truth is no one knows anything. For all we know macc got a call from the giants and they said go ahead man. We don’t want a qb this year. Or maybe they asked him to buy them
A bunch of calzones and chicken wings every Sunday. Maybe it’s chocolate shakes. Maybe it’s old fashioned handies on Friday nights.
Who knows?

Here’s what we do know. Macc took a shot and it paid off. We got not only the guy he probably expected in baker, but the guy everyone outside of Cleveland thought was the better on the 5 qbs in darnold. It worked! By Jesus the gamble worked!!! This is not the norm for the jets and we should be celebrating it even if macc was purely lucky to get sam. I’ll take great luck over brains any day of the week! It would certainly be a welcome change to the years and years of terrible luck we’ve had. No?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, Dcat said:

 You are not right.  Nothing I wrote "tells you" you are right.  You haven't the foggiest clue whether or not Maccagnan "knew" that Gettleman was going to take Barkley.  You claim that "everyone" "Gase" "Maccagnan" even yourself, "knew.  THe truth: You didn't know, and you presently do not know any such thing.  Pure speculation.  You reach your conclusioon because you want to believe that.  There is not one shred of evidence, including the opinion in the tweet you so cherish, to tell us whether or not Mac "knew" what Gettleman was going to do.

What you claim is a "logical deduction" is merely hopeful speculation.  The response to your assertion is "prove it, bud".  You can't.  Therefore your assertion is only speculation and is no way confirmed or valid.  

Why is this even an argument. Does it really matter? Mac took a gamble and it paid off. We got the best possible outcome. 

To be honest I totally thought it was possible for the Giants not to take a QB. Eli could still play and he won two SB's with him as the QB. Why not see if you can get one more year out of him and take Barkley. 

[NYs Stepchild]

Belichick should be fired for not taking Brady in the 5th round. 

Why would any GM pass up Brady for a 5th round pick? What an idiot. 

[kevinc855]

Ban 

[Beerfish]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

yes. Saquon Barkley would have been the pick at 3, had Mayfield and Darnold gone 1-2

Josh Rosen stinks out loud 

Trading 3 2nd rounders for a RB to move from 6 to 3 would be the ultimate in stupidity.

the jets were taking a QB at 3, no doubt about it.  If mayfield and darnold were gone they would have either taken rosen or allen.

[bitonti]

13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Trading 3 2nd rounders for a RB to move from 6 to 3 would be the ultimate in stupidity.

the jets were taking a QB at 3, no doubt about it.  If mayfield and darnold were gone they would have either taken rosen or allen.

but both of those players would have been available at 6 for free 

that would be even dumber than trading 3 2nds for Barkley (who by the way is a super star) 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

YOU ARE THE INTERNET'S LAZIEST HOMERRRRRRRRRRR 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

JANUARY 22, 2018

It’s Senior Bowl week. Heimerdinger meets Colts VP of player personnel Ed Dodds at the hotel bar at the Battlehouse in Mobile, Ala. Indianapolis has the No. 3 pick. The Jets have the No. 6 pick again, and a Plan A and Plan B at quarterback. Plan A: Sign Kirk Cousins, who has played in Bates’s offense and is a favorite of 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan, who happens to have strong ties to both Bates and Heimerdinger. Plan B: Trade up for one of the 2018 quarterbacks.

The conversation between Heimerdinger and Dodds gets the wheels turning on the latter. And that principle Maccagnan has of not going crazy—like, say, Washington did in 2012 to get Robert Griffin III—for anyone but a once-in-30-years guy like Luck? That colors the conversation, with the second-rounder from the Richardson trade an essential piece to pulling off the Jets’ goal of holding on to all future first-round picks.

Heimerdinger and Dodds leave Mobile with an agreement to keep talking. And thus, the Jets accomplish a goal. Based on the year-long focus on the position—Maccagnan had a scout live at just about every USC, UCLA, Oklahoma and Wyoming game—the feeling is they’re ahead of others in assessing the class. The hope is that readiness to pull the trigger before the market is fully developed could lead to a reasonable deal.

 

MARCH 4, 2018

 

Heimerdinger and Dodds meet for a drink at the JW Marriott bar in Indy. Heimerdinger inquires if other teams have asked about the third pick. Both leave with the idea of continuing talks if the Jets’ pursuit of Cousins fails.

 

MARCH 13, 2018

Cousins’s agent, Mike McCartney, calls the Jets early evening to deliver bad news—they weren’t out of the race for his client, but Minnesota would be the first visit and there was no guarantee the quarterback would leave there without signing.

There is no waiting on Plan B for the Jets. They immediately pivot to try to secure McCown and Teddy Bridgewater, while pursuing other free agents with money that would have gone to Cousins. Maccagnan had promoted Heimerdinger to vice president 10 months earlier, so he trusted his No. 2 to lead the effort from the team facility. That frees the GM up to fly to Norman, Okla., for Mayfield’s March 14 pro day, then to Los Angeles for Rosen’s pro day on March 16.

On Thursday, March 15, Dodds passes Heimerdinger off to Ballard, and the deal is done early Saturday. The Jets send their slotted second-rounders for 2018 and ’19, plus the Richardson second-rounder, to Indy to move up from 6 to 3, knowing there are three QBs they’d value there. Maccagnan and Heimerdinger call Johnson for his sign-off. It’s not hard to get.

Nice job Tom.  Your "evidence" actually holds Mike Maccagnan in a pretty good light.

1]  The Jets had a "plan B" in the event that the pursuit of Cousins didn't result in a signing.  Smart.

2]  Maccagnan's aversion to including the 2019, 1st round pick in any trade up probably saved the Jets this years #3 overall pick.  Smart.

3]  Contrary to popular belief, Maccagnan had a year long focus on the quarterback class of 2018, which gave them a better read on the prospects, and allowed them to get a jump on the "market", giving them an advantage in wrapping up the Colts pick before others had a chance.  Smart.

4] The Jets keep communication lines open with the Colts in respect to the "prospective trade-up" throughout the Cousins "negotiation process".  Do you actually believe that Heimerdinger did this without Maccagnans consent and imput?  Of course not.  Smart.

5]  Upon confirmation that Cousins would be signing with the Vikings, the Jets pounced on Bridgewater and move on to other free agent targets with the Cousins money.  Maccagnan, like good leaders do, empowers his assistant to act in the Jets best interests.  He, meanwhile continues the  QB evaluations.  Teddy Bridgewater, who is signed for a good "prove it" contract, is flipped by the Jets for a 3rd round draft pick in this year's draft.  Smart.

6]  Less than 48 hours after learning that Cousins would not be their quarterback, the Jets finalize the deal securing the #3 pick without giving up this years 1st rounder.  This assures the Jets of getting one of the top quarterback prospects in this prospect rich draft.  The Jets move forward, targeting Mayfield and hoping for Darnold.  Smart.

To summarize the article, Mike Maccagnan,  his assistant  Brian Heimerdinger [who Maccagnan promoted], and the Jets front office had a long term plan with built in contingencies, to acquire a franchise quarterback.  The results of that plan is the presence of Sam Darnold in green and white.  Hopefully for a long, long time.  The plan was well designed and well executed.  Smart.

Good Job by Brian Heimerdinger.  Good Job by Mike Maccagnan.  And good job by you TOm Shane.  Smart.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Smart

You did that for 368 words.