PFF Player Spotlight: Josh Allen

[maury77]

 

[maury77]

Allen seems like a really nice kid. 

[JustInFudge]

Where do I sign? 

[derp]

I feel like Allen at 3 is a wide open transition layup.

And Maccagnan is going to go up for a dunk, graze the bottom of the net, fall, blow out both knees, and toss the ball out of bounds.

[PepPep]

35 minutes ago, derp said:

I feel like Allen at 3 is a wide open transition layup.

And Maccagnan is going to go up for a dunk, graze the bottom of the net, fall, blow out both knees, and toss the ball out of bounds.

 I think a guy like Bosa or QW are wide open layups while Allen is the guy you try to get a slam dunk with. 

Despite his injury history Bosa is more of a sure thing. I think at worst he will be a solid pass rusher, if not elite. And if Macc drafts him, even if he busts, its hard to blame Macc for taking THE top non-QB prospect at a position of need. 

QW is considered by most to be the second best non-QB prospect. And he doesn't have the injury concerns that Bosa has. 

Allen however is a bit of a gamble. He is much more of a boom or bust prospect. He is versatile and at best can become an elite pass rushing OLB with coverage skills. However, he does exhibit the same pass rush skills or strength of a guy like Bosa. So there is some concern that at the next level he will not succeed. 

Personally, I think all 3 guys will be pro bowlers in the NFL. I have some concerns with Bosa's injury history but would still take him if he was there at 3.    

 

[maury77]

24 minutes ago, PepPep said:

 I think a guy like Bosa or QW are wide open layups while Allen is the guy you try to get a slam dunk with. 

Despite his injury history Bosa is more of a sure thing. I think at worst he will be a solid pass rusher, if not elite. And if Macc drafts him, even if he busts, its hard to blame Macc for taking THE top non-QB prospect at a position of need. 

QW is considered by most to be the second best non-QB prospect. And he doesn't have the injury concerns that Bosa has. 

Allen however is a bit of a gamble. He is much more of a boom or bust prospect. He is versatile and at best can become an elite pass rushing OLB with coverage skills. However, he does exhibit the same pass rush skills or strength of a guy like Bosa. So there is some concern that at the next level he will not succeed. 

Personally, I think all 3 guys will be pro bowlers in the NFL. I have some concerns with Bosa's injury history but would still take him if he was there at 3.    

 

One of the hardest things to evaluate with the draft is how hard are these guys going to work at the pro level to become elite. Guys like Leo and Adams were 4 and 5 star recruits coming out of high school who were also naturally more gifted at the NCAA level than the competition. That usually ceases to be the case when you make it to the NFL, so you have to out work the other guys to really stand out. 

Bosa and Quinnen were both big recruits coming out. What I like about Allen is that he was a 1 or 2 star recruit that had to bust his ass to turn into the player we see today. I know Allen is going to work hard when he gets to the pros, so even though he needs some refinement to his pass rush, I think he will develop that part of his game because he is going to work hard at it. 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

One of the hardest things to evaluate with the draft is how hard are these guys going to work at the pro level to become elite. Guys like Leo and Adams were 4 and 5 star recruits coming out of high school who were also naturally more gifted at the NCAA level than the competition. That usually ceases to be the case when you make it to the NFL, so you have to out work the other guys to really stand out. 

Bosa and Quinnen were both big recruits coming out. What I like about Allen is that he was a 1 or 2 star recruit that had to bust his ass to turn into the player we see today. I know Allen is going to work hard when he gets to the pros, so even though he needs some refinement to his pass rush, I think he will develop that part of his game because he is going to work hard at it. 

 

On that same narrative (and at the risk of sounding like a broken record) - you talk about needing to bust your butt to make it, persevere to rise above etc. Williams didn’t have to face almost any adversity this year, that being his first year is a full-time starter. The only game he had to persevere through was the championship game and he didn’t fair so well.

He was surrounded by talent as well. I think Allen had crosshairs on him all year and he still showed up for every game and put the defence on his back. If anything he’s the least likely to bust. So I disagree with @PepPep there. I don’t see the Boom/bust  being at all a concern for Allen. He’s one of the safest prospects in the entire draft. Safer than Williams.

[derp]

2 hours ago, PepPep said:

 I think a guy like Bosa or QW are wide open layups while Allen is the guy you try to get a slam dunk with. 

Despite his injury history Bosa is more of a sure thing. I think at worst he will be a solid pass rusher, if not elite. And if Macc drafts him, even if he busts, its hard to blame Macc for taking THE top non-QB prospect at a position of need. 

QW is considered by most to be the second best non-QB prospect. And he doesn't have the injury concerns that Bosa has. 

Allen however is a bit of a gamble. He is much more of a boom or bust prospect. He is versatile and at best can become an elite pass rushing OLB with coverage skills. However, he does exhibit the same pass rush skills or strength of a guy like Bosa. So there is some concern that at the next level he will not succeed. 

Personally, I think all 3 guys will be pro bowlers in the NFL. I have some concerns with Bosa's injury history but would still take him if he was there at 3.    

 

I wasn't comparing across prospects, simply talking about Allen. Totally disagree he's boom or bust. He's getting nitpicked too much. Can rush or cover, has a motor, good athlete, great production and didn't benefit from a ton of pass rushing snaps in that regard either. I wish he did vertical jumps but he's a super clean prospect. 

Have the same injury concerns you do with Bosa. I actually think he slides because of them.

[nycdan]

It would be interesting to know exactly what went wrong with Gholston.  He had that monster year and all the physical tools.  Was he lazy in the pros?  Anyone have an angle on this?

[cant wait]

35 minutes ago, nycdan said:

It would be interesting to know exactly what went wrong with Gholston.  He had that monster year and all the physical tools.  Was he lazy in the pros?  Anyone have an angle on this?

it’s pretty clear with gholston that he didn’t really love playing football. the college game is easy for an athletic freak like he was, the pros are a much different story 

[RobR]

34 minutes ago, nycdan said:

It would be interesting to know exactly what went wrong with Gholston.  He had that monster year and all the physical tools.  Was he lazy in the pros?  Anyone have an angle on this?

He got paid and had a reclusive personality. Every time you would see him on the sidelines he was always by himself, never talking with teammates.

[cant wait]

5 minutes ago, RobR said:

He got paid and had a reclusive personality. Every time you would see him on the sidelines he was always by himself, never talking with teammates.

any time I read about inconsistent motor/effort now I immediately write off the prospect. all of these major busts seem to share it- take a look at these writeups for gholston, coples and solomon thomas

 

[RobR]

18 minutes ago, cant wait said:

any time I read about inconsistent motor/effort now I immediately write off the prospect. all of these major busts seem to share it- take a look at these writeups for gholston, coples and solomon thomas

 

Don't forget Coples.

[cant wait]

8 minutes ago, RobR said:

Don't forget Coples.

this is from the coples writeup

[RobR]

43 minutes ago, cant wait said:

this is from the coples writeup

That should read everyone has criticized his motor. Even I fell for it at the time because he wasn't my favorite pick at that spot but I really thought he would be a player and didn't hate the pick. Sometimes I get swayed by the great plays and forget all of the ones where they coast. 

[cant wait]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

That should read everyone has criticized his motor. Even I fell for it at the time because he wasn't my favorite pick at that spot but I really thought he would be a player and didn't hate the pick. Sometimes I get swayed by the great plays and forget all of the ones where they coast. 

yeah I remember that draft well- I desperately wanted melvin ingram and my heart sank when they made the pick. I tried to delude myself about coples for a while too but it was obvious with him. I vaguely remember one of the NFLN draft hosts bringing up his inconsistent effort right after they made the pick too

[RobR]

1 hour ago, cant wait said:

yeah I remember that draft well- I desperately wanted melvin ingram and my heart sank when they made the pick. I tried to delude myself about coples for a while too but it was obvious with him. I vaguely remember one of the NFLN draft hosts bringing up his inconsistent effort right after they made the pick too

It was Coples 100% if he was available. Rex put him through his personal workouts and tested him as a LB and said if he was available we would draft him BEFORE the draft. I liked him inside in a 4-3 and he did well his first couple of years, then we moved him further outside and he blew chunks. He had a couple of opportunities to resurrect his career and failed at both. 

 

[BCJet]

14 hours ago, nycdan said:

It would be interesting to know exactly what went wrong with Gholston.  He had that monster year and all the physical tools.  Was he lazy in the pros?  Anyone have an angle on this?

He didnt like football.

I understand why the Jets made the pick, but to me this story was arguably the biggest red flag possible and should have removed him from our draft board.  Here is the quote from the OSU beat writer when asked about his personality

 He's kind of a different bird, personality-wise. He's very pleasant, but very quiet and kind of a loner. For instance, he lived with a woman, but she is not his girlfriend. Just different, not a typical jock. When the majority of the team gathered at the team meeting room Dec. 1 to watch the West Virginia-Pitt and Missouri-Oklahoma games (which decided OSU?s bowl fate), Gholston was one of the few players not there. Never any problems off the field or any squabbles with the media, just very reserved and private.

If you dont care about football enough to watch a meaningful game with your teammates, thats a problem.

[maury77]

I wish I could find Gholston's OSU tape, but whenever the play would go away from him, he would literally stop running. Gholston was a complete dog that had 1 pass rush move (a bull rush), but never bothered to learn another pass rushing move. The warning signs were all over the tape with him. 

[nycdan]

Thanks guys.  So are we all generally in agreement that Josh Allen, despite whatever reservations some have with his only having a single year of high production (albeit after two other pretty good years), is NOT likely to be another Gholston?

[cant wait]

18 hours ago, RobR said:

It was Coples 100% if he was available. Rex put him through his personal workouts and tested him as a LB and said if he was available we would draft him BEFORE the draft. I liked him inside in a 4-3 and he did well his first couple of years, then we moved him further outside and he blew chunks. He had a couple of opportunities to resurrect his career and failed at both. 

 

right I remember that now... just goes to show how rex’s massive ego was his own downfall. of course he was the guy who thought his genius coaching was going to turn this kid into the next julius peppers

[cant wait]

8 hours ago, nycdan said:

Thanks guys.  So are we all generally in agreement that Josh Allen, despite whatever reservations some have with his only having a single year of high production (albeit after two other pretty good years), is NOT likely to be another Gholston?

yeah definitely not, allen is a baller not a stiff like gholston. quotes like this are very reassuring to me 

Texas A&M running back Trayveon Williams echoed that sentiment in an interview with The Athletic, adding, “He knew what plays were coming before we ran them.”

 

[cant wait]

the one thing that does make me scratch my head about allen is what’s up with his hands? I mean I’m not going to go ahead and say it means anything for an edge because I honestly have no idea- but wouldn’t being in the 1st percentile make him an extreme outlier by definition?

[JustInFudge]

On 3/30/2019 at 8:03 AM, nycdan said:

Thanks guys.  So are we all generally in agreement that Josh Allen, despite whatever reservations some have with his only having a single year of high production (albeit after two other pretty good years), is NOT likely to be another Gholston?

Was this ever a thought?  They're night and day different players.  Like apples to grenades.

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Was this ever a thought?  They're night and day different players.  Like apples to grenades.

 

Josh Allen 1.63 10-yard split/4.23 shuttle/7.15 3cone

Player B 1.63 10-yard split/4.22 shuttle/7.15 3cone

GUESS

[JustInFudge]

16 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Josh Allen 1.63 10-yard split/4.23 shuttle/7.15 3cone

Player B 1.63 10-yard split/4.22 shuttle/7.15 3cone

GUESS

No clue but that doesn’t change the fact. 

How many times did Gholston drop back in coverage in college? 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

No clue but that doesn’t change the fact. 

How many times did Gholston drop back in coverage in college? 

I have no idea. I'm not comparing Gholston to anybody. The answer is Oliver obv.

[cant wait]

5 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I have no idea. I'm not comparing Gholston to anybody. The answer is Oliver obv.

that’s oliver at 280+ too. I’d like to see him come down a little so he could play standing up more. I keep thinking of him as a terrell suggs type rush LB rather than the next aaron donald

[MindOverMatter]

20 hours ago, cant wait said:

that’s oliver at 280+ too. I’d like to see him come down a little so he could play standing up more. I keep thinking of him as a terrell suggs type rush LB rather than the next aaron donald

It was rumored that the Titans were working him out to play edge. Oliver along with Metcalf i guess, are real wildcards in this draft. I'd be hyped for either to be Jets.

[cant wait]

1 hour ago, MindOverMatter said:

It was rumored that the Titans were working him out to play edge. Oliver along with Metcalf i guess, are real wildcards in this draft. I'd be hyped for either to be Jets.

could see him replacing orakpo for the titans. I actually think he’s one of the safer picks in the draft- I’d put rashan gary in the boom or bust bin with metcalf

[#27TheDominator]

On 3/29/2019 at 6:00 PM, cant wait said:

any time I read about inconsistent motor/effort now I immediately write off the prospect. all of these major busts seem to share it- take a look at these writeups for gholston, coples and solomon thomas

 

Quote

Weaknesses:

• Motor?
• Takes plays off?
• Should refine and add to his pass-rushing moves
• Can have quiet stretches
• Gets in trouble when he stands up too high
• Read more: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2015lwilliams.php#ixzz5jzsJnreg
  
  
  
  
•  
•  

Quote

There have been some questions about his motor, 

Quote

Potential negatives on Williams have seen scouts questioning his motor and/or effort and stating that his technique can sometimes be raw, limiting his potential as a pass rusher and causing him leverage issues at the point of attack. There's also a durability concern because he had a shoulder injury that required him to have surgery after the 2013 season.

Leonard Williams

[jetstream23]

I'm all-in on Josh Allen.  I think this is the kid that would unlock our defense and really cause problems for opponents.  A D that has Allen, Jamal Adams, CJ Mosely, and Leo Williams all being moved around the chess board by Gregg Williams would be killer!

Our defense hasn't had a real weapon since Darrelle Revis.

I want Allen and yes, I think he's better than Bosa.

[cant wait]

21 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Leonard Williams

wow yeah good call. if I’m remembering correctly didn’t the concerns about LW’s motor come out super late, like right before the draft happened? I remember he was being talked about maybe going #1 overall most of the draft season and then the questions came out right before the draft started that he might slip. he’s been OK but it will be interesting to see how he does now that he’s in a contract year- hopefully we don’t have another wilkerson type here that’s gonna dog it once he gets paid

[maury77]

19 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I'm all-in on Josh Allen.  I think this is the kid that would unlock our defense and really cause problems for opponents.  A D that has Allen, Jamal Adams, CJ Mosely, and Leo Williams all being moved around the chess board by Gregg Williams would be killer!

Our defense hasn't had a real weapon since Darrelle Revis.

I want Allen and yes, I think he's better than Bosa.

In a 4-3, Bosa > Allen

In a 3-4, Allen > Bosa

[Long Island Leprechaun]

On 3/29/2019 at 5:12 PM, nycdan said:

It would be interesting to know exactly what went wrong with Gholston.  He had that monster year and all the physical tools.  Was he lazy in the pros?  Anyone have an angle on this?

Stiff. No technique. Zero bend. No aggression. He was a pumped up p*ssy.