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DT fatigue and Leonard Williams are not good reasons to avoid taking Quinnen Williams OR Ed Oliver


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17 minutes ago, choon328 said:

It would be more impactful for the future of this organization and QB to trade the 3rd pick, slide back 5-8 spots and then draft heavily on offensive lineman in the first 3 rounds. It is the weakest part of this team and needs to upgraded ASAP.

 

How about best available pass rusher at 5-8, then draft OL in rounds 2 and 3?  Why wouldn't that work?

Again, unless that OL is a franchise LT, you simply don't take one in the top 10.  You just don't.  Especially since starting-caliber or even Pro Bowl-caliber RT's and interior linemen can be found in the middle rounds (2-5). 

The future of the organization is far more positively impacted by a legit pass rusher than spending our 1st on a perennial Pro Bowl Guard or RT.  I can't explain it any better than that. 

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21 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

So would 9 out of 10 NFL GMs...top 3 guaranteed. 

No, they wouldn't.  Especially these teams that have gotten burned by taking a guy who isn't a LT in the top 10 in recent years:

  • 49ers:  OT Mike McGlinchey (2018 # 9 overall pick)
  • Titans:  OT Jack Conklin (2016 # 8 overall pick)
  • Giants:  OT Ereck Flowers (2015 # 9 overall pick)
  • Redskins:  G Brandon Scherff (2015 # 5 overall pick)
  • Rams:  OT Greg Robinson (2014 # 2 overall pick)
  • Jaguars:  OL Luke Joeckel (2013 # 2 overall pick)
  • Cardinals:  G Jonathan Cooper (2013 # 7 overall pick)
  • Titans:  G Chance Warmack (2013 # 10 overall pick)
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26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How about best available pass rusher at 5-8, then draft OL in rounds 2 and 3?  Why wouldn't that work?

Again, unless that OL is a franchise LT, you simply don't take one in the top 10.  You just don't.  Especially since starting-caliber or even Pro Bowl-caliber RT's and interior linemen can be found in the middle rounds (2-5). 

The future of the organization is far more positively impacted by a legit pass rusher than spending our 1st on a perennial Pro Bowl Guard or RT.  I can't explain it any better than that. 

The future of this organization is directly tied to Darnold and him alone, not the defense. 

If the Jets dropped to say 7th while picking up an extra 2nd and 3rd I'd be ok with them taking a pass rusher at 7 and then drafting offensive line the next couple of rounds. I wouldn't be thrilled about it but I'd be ok with it.

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23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No, they wouldn't.  Especially these teams that have gotten burned by taking a guy who isn't a LT in the top 10 in recent years:

  • 49ers:  OT Mike McGlinchey (2018 # 9 overall pick)
  • Titans:  OT Jack Conklin (2016 # 8 overall pick)
  • Giants:  OT Ereck Flowers (2015 # 9 overall pick)
  • Redskins:  G Brandon Scherff (2015 # 5 overall pick)
  • Rams:  OT Greg Robinson (2014 # 2 overall pick)
  • Jaguars:  OL Luke Joeckel (2013 # 2 overall pick)
  • Cardinals:  G Jonathan Cooper (2013 # 7 overall pick)
  • Titans:  G Chance Warmack (2013 # 10 overall pick)

I think if you told a GM that he could draft a Rookie All-Pro Guard at #3 he'd do it in a heart beat. You've eliminated all of the risk in drafting someone else.

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11 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The future of this organization is directly tied to Darnold and him alone, not the defense. 

If the Jets dropped to say 7th while picking up an extra 2nd and 3rd I'd be ok with them taking a pass rusher at 7 and then drafting offensive line the next couple of rounds. I wouldn't be thrilled about it but I'd be ok with it.

Cool.  So getting 3rd down stops and turnovers to get him the ball back doesn't matter at all. 

 

9 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I think if you told a GM that he could draft a Rookie All-Pro Guard at #3 he'd do it in a heart beat. You've eliminated all of the risk in drafting someone else.

But you're not including all the variables.  If it turned out no one else in the first 10-12 picks was any good, sure, he'd do that.  If he was passing up on the opportunity to get one of the 10-15 best pass rushers in the NFL to take the Guard, no, he wouldn't. 

It isn't just about reducing risk with your 1st round pick.  It's about opportunity cost.  Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams were "safe" picks.  How did that work out for us?

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How would Leo and Quinnen pair together? 

Do they do the same job? 

My initial feelings with Quinnen and Leo was that they are both versitile and could play multiple positions but I'm starting to read more and more that they are kinda redundant 

Can anyone shed some light on this? 

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Cool.  So getting 3rd down stops and turnovers to get him the ball back doesn't matter at all. 

 

But you're not including all the variables.  If it turned out no one else in the first 10-12 picks was any good, sure, he'd do that.  If he was passing up on the opportunity to get one of the 10-15 best pass rushers in the NFL to take the Guard, no, he wouldn't. 

It isn't just about reducing risk with your 1st round pick.  It's about opportunity cost.  Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams were "safe" picks.  How did that work out for us?

Defense doesn't really matter in the NFL right now compared to offense. The NFL is all about offense. Take a look at the final four teams in the playoffs last year and tell me defense matters. It just doesn't. Spare me the excuse about the score of the Super Bowl, that was a blip in an otherwise offensive minded season and playoffs.

The Jamal Adams pick has worked out great. Leo, not so much.

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7 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Defense doesn't really matter in the NFL right now compared to offense. The NFL is all about offense. Take a look at the final four teams in the playoffs last year and tell me defense matters. It just doesn't. Spare me the excuse about the score of the Super Bowl, that was a blip in an otherwise offensive minded season and playoffs.

The Jamal Adams pick has worked out great. Leo, not so much. 

There's a big difference between getting by with an OK defense and having an awful defense, which we had last year.  You at least need to be able to get by.  New England had the # 13 defense last year, per FO.  The Rams were # 15.  In total, 8 of the 12 playoff defenses were in the Top 15 of the rankings. 

It was more of the same in the 2018 playoffs.  The Eagles had the # 2 defense per FO.  2 of the other AFC/NFC Championship participants, the Vikings and Jaguars, had the # 1 and # 4 defense, respectively. 

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1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

How much of a difference is there between Josh Allen and Brian Burns or Montez Sweat?

I am assuming Josh Allen is worth the 3 pick for the sake of argument. 

But your point is valid, there might not be much difference and a team could have Bosa - Williams - Oliver as their top 3 and that would also make a ton of sense.

Allen is not quite an A+ prospect for example why is he a senior that didn't play in the senior bowl? things that make you go HMM 

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1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

How much of a difference is there between Josh Allen and Brian Burns or Montez Sweat?

Burns - is a 4-3 DE in a OLBs body.  He’s going to have a tough time being anything more than a part time player used in obvious passing situations 

 

Sweat - i like him and if we do trade down he’s a player I want but has a heart condition

 

So yes there is a big difference 

 

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7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I am assuming Josh Allen is worth the 3 pick for the sake of argument. 

But your point is valid, there might not be much difference and a team could have Bosa - Williams - Oliver as their top 3 and that would also make a ton of sense.

Allen is not quite an A+ prospect for example why is he a senior that didn't play in the senior bowl? things that make you go HMM 

A lot of top prospects skip the senior bowl

 

And it’s not like Allen got his stats playing a joke conference he was in the SEC

 

That said I am with you about Quinnen Williams if we drafted him it wouldn’t be a home run it would be a grand slam

 

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15 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

A lot of top prospects skip the senior bowl 

 

alot of top prospects declare when they are juniors. those that don't should have to prove it 

Von Miller went to the Senior Bowl, ran a 4.4 and went 2 overall. 

it sounds nitpicky but this is the 3 pick hopefully it's a franchise building pick not just a reaction to losing out on Anthony Barr 

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9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

alot of top prospects declare when they are juniors. those that don't should have to prove it 

Von Miller went to the Senior Bowl, ran a 4.4 and went 2 overall. 

it sounds nitpicky but this is the 3 pick hopefully it's a franchise building pick not just a reaction to losing out on Anthony Barr 

Anthony Barr the overrated linebacker with a career high 4 sacks?

 

If Allen ends up like that guy he is abust

 

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38 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Burns - is a 4-3 DE in a OLBs body.  He’s going to have a tough time being anything more than a part time player used in obvious passing situations 

 

Sweat - i like him and if we do trade down he’s a player I want but has a heart condition

 

So yes there is a big difference 

 

Why is Josh Allen so great?

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48 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I am assuming Josh Allen is worth the 3 pick for the sake of argument. 

But your point is valid, there might not be much difference and a team could have Bosa - Williams - Oliver as their top 3 and that would also make a ton of sense.

Allen is not quite an A+ prospect for example why is he a senior that didn't play in the senior bowl? things that make you go HMM 

I have Oliver 1, Bosa 3c, Williams 4a, then everybody else. Where do you think Hakeem Butler goes?

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  • 4 months later...
11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Early, but the two edge rushers are separating themselves this preseason so far (Allen/Burns). Hoping to see QW "flash" tomorrow night. This thread is a good read.

But...but....what about Clelin Ferrell? Gruden (and Raideraholic) told us he was the best Edge rusher in the class.

 

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56 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Early, but the two edge rushers are separating themselves this preseason so far (Allen/Burns). Hoping to see QW "flash" tomorrow night. This thread is a good read.

He did blow the Falcons guard up during the last game. Although Allen would have been my pick. If we stayed put, I’d ideally of liked to have moved out.

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