PFF Big Board

[Barry McCockinner]

Interesting seeing Jonah Williams ranked so high. I don't know how accurate it is, but I like seeing an OT ranked so high when we're picking at 3.

[JustInFudge]

Williams is a Guard.

Shocked Oliver, White and Sweat arent on here...

[playtowinthegame]

I can see Kyler falling outside the top 5 when/if the Cardinals draft Nick Bosa. The only other team I could see drafting Kyler Murray in the top 5 of the draft is perhaps the Oakland Raiders, and if they pass on him, that's when Murray falls out the top 5. Hopefully someone loves Murray or Haskins enough to trade up with the Jets at 3. If not, I guess we welcome Josh Allen to the Jets.

[Paradis]

5 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Interesting seeing Jonah Williams ranked so high. I don't know how accurate it is, but I like seeing an OT ranked so high when we're picking at 3.

PFF's big board is a product of analytics - which i guess is fine - but doesn't necessarily reflect the pulse of an NFL GM. 

[Barry McCockinner]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

Williams is a Guard.

 

 

[Larz]

What a crappy off season to be looking for offense 

[jetstream23]

6 hours ago, Larz said:

What a crappy off season to be looking for offense 

Glad we got our QB in last year's Draft and that we upgraded OG, RB and Slot WR in free agency.  If Macc can find a starting Center I'll walk away from the offseason saying that it was at least fair on Offense.

[sec101row23]

Simmons tore his ACL in February, not sure how he can be that high on anyone’s big board right now.  

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Simmons tore his ACL in February, not sure how he can be that high on anyone’s big board right now.  

Based on talent, not injury.

[Skeptable]

21 hours ago, JiF said:

Williams is a Guard.

Shocked Oliver, White and Sweat arent on here...

Gary and Sweat they give 2nd round grades to.  They are not as impressed with the football play versus the combine numbers.

Oliver and White they have in the 20s if I remember correctly

[Skeptable]

3 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Simmons tore his ACL in February, not sure how he can be that high on anyone’s big board right now.  

In the latest mock they had him to the Giants at 17 so that he can sit out a year.

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Gary and Sweat they give 2nd round grades to.  They are not as impressed with the football play versus the combine numbers.

Oliver and White they have in the 20s if I remember correctly

Sweat produced though...

[Skeptable]

14 minutes ago, JiF said:

Sweat produced though...

Not my formula, I have no idea.... just telling you what they said

[nyjbuddy]

 

 

 

 

 

[section314]

Greedy Williams @#9, but Christian Wilkins is #25?  Ok.

[nycdan]

Jenkins way over Bradbury.  

Fant, Gary and Sweat in the 41-50 range. 

Will Grier the third QB before Lock with Jones nowhere to be found.

Definitely give them credit for not following the herd.

[Dcat]

On 4/5/2019 at 11:13 AM, section314 said:

Greedy Williams @#9, but Christian Wilkins is #25?  Ok.

Sweat #48.  

PFF sucks both in-season and off-season.  These rankings are horrible.

[Dcat]

On 4/5/2019 at 1:15 PM, nycdan said:

Jenkins way over Bradbury.  

Fant, Gary and Sweat in the 41-50 range. 

Will Grier the third QB before Lock with Jones nowhere to be found.

Definitely give them credit for not following the herd.

1st, I think Jenkins is a better C prospect than Bradbury.  So that's the one deviant ranking that I actually agree with.  But Sweat at 48?  Seriously? ANd Fant will be gone in round 1. Between Green Bay and New England having need stere and other teams too, Fant is a round 1.  Gary I'm surprised is not in rd 1 too.

Instead they put ridiculous WRs in rd 1.  Isabella?  LOL.  JJ...  round 1????!!!

And David Long is not going at the 1st pick of round 2.  He may not even make it to round 3.

[#27TheDominator]

What is their insane formula this year?  FWIW, I don't think I got a single guy on their list in our mock, so I hope they are wrong.  I think they used to rate every player for the year and then give the rankings.  That way you just had who they thought was best, without the pretext of who is a better prospect.  With Metcalf at the top of their WR rankings, that can't be the case, so what is it?  It can't be athleticism, otherwise, how are Oliver, Gary and White so low?  This I don't understand.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

49 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

What is their insane formula this year?  FWIW, I don't think I got a single guy on their list in our mock, so I hope they are wrong.  I think they used to rate every player for the year and then give the rankings.  That way you just had who they thought was best, without the pretext of who is a better prospect.  With Metcalf at the top of their WR rankings, that can't be the case, so what is it?  It can't be athleticism, otherwise, how are Oliver, Gary and White so low?  This I don't understand.

A man who makes a living selling data to people either because of or in spite of claiming to be able to meaningfully quantify the fact that Oliver was playing nose tackle in a 3-4/3-5-5 defense that often only rushed three guys and featured as its next-best pass rusher (I sh*t you not) a converted quarterback is a man worth listening to. Just not about football.

[JoJoTownsell1]

12 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

What is their insane formula this year?  FWIW, I don't think I got a single guy on their list in our mock, so I hope they are wrong.  I think they used to rate every player for the year and then give the rankings.  That way you just had who they thought was best, without the pretext of who is a better prospect.  With Metcalf at the top of their WR rankings, that can't be the case, so what is it?  It can't be athleticism, otherwise, how are Oliver, Gary and White so low?  This I don't understand.

They don't  look at a players potential and ignore years of actual on the field production so they will never rank a guy like Gary very high. As a fan of a team that drafted Vernon Gholston based mostly on measurables that is probably a good thing. Chase Winovich playing on the same team in the same system was a far better player. As a PSU fan i was far more worried about Winovich than Gary. At the combine, Winovich was just as fast and had a much better 3 cone drill. Gary is a better athlete, no question, but it wouldn't shock me if Winovich is a better pro. An argument I have seen PFF make. 
 

They like Oliver, but  his production this past year wasn't that great. There are reasons for that, but again they grade mostly based on production. Also Oliver at 11 isn't crazy. He is an interior lineman and in a class with Quinnen/Tillery/Simmons it is very possible Oliver falls outside of the top 10. I still think Oliver ends up being a really good player, but he just doesn't seem that much better than the other 3. 

As for Sweat, i don't get their grade on him. He was pretty impressive in college. Double digit sacks in the SEC last two years, great measurables. 

In the end, PFF watches every single play of every single player giving a player a grade on every play. It's a GREAT tool, but that doesn't make it perfect. If you look at every NFL teams draft history you will see tons of misses also. So PFF is likewise going to miss. However, they are by FAR the best source of pre-draft info. The likes of Kiper/Mcshay/Bucky Brooks are clowns by comparison. But again, that doesn't make them perfect. 

[Beerfish]

On 4/3/2019 at 9:35 AM, JiF said:

Sweat produced though...

So did Vernon Gholston

[JustInFudge]

27 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

So did Vernon Gholston

I'm not following what he has to do with Gary and Sweat combine vs. production? 

[Beerfish]

17 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm not following what he has to do with Gary and Sweat combine vs. production? 

Not following?  Gholston had a great combine and had production.

Sweat had a great combine and your reply to the other guy was "Sweat produced though" thus indicating that good combine plus production is a big factor.  Gholston had 8.5 and then 14 sacks in his last two college years.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Not following?  Gholston had a great combine and had production.

Sweat had a great combine and your reply to the other guy was "Sweat produced though" thus indicating that good combine plus production is a big factor.  Gholston had 8.5 and then 14 sacks in his last two college years.

The comment I responded to was, “they’re basing this just off combine”.  To which I said, “Sweat produced though”.   Which is factual information and has nothing to do with any type projection. It was a correction, if you will.

Now that we’ve cleared that up, if I’m not mistaken, Gholston scored like poop in the agility skills and the combine basically confirmed a lot of the fears; big strong stiff who ran fast in a straight line.  And if your point is that production doesn’t matter because look at Gholston than I think it’s a rather stupid point, no offense.  

 

[genot]

27 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Not following?  Gholston had a great combine and had production.

Sweat had a great combine and your reply to the other guy was "Sweat produced though" thus indicating that good combine plus production is a big factor.  Gholston had 8.5 and then 14 sacks in his last two college years.

There was clearly something wrong with Gholston between the ears. That more than anything explains his total failure in the NFL. Doe's Sweat have those same issues?

[#27TheDominator]

6 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

They don't  look at a players potential and ignore years of actual on the field production so they will never rank a guy like Gary very high. As a fan of a team that drafted Vernon Gholston based mostly on measurables that is probably a good thing. Chase Winovich playing on the same team in the same system was a far better player. As a PSU fan i was far more worried about Winovich than Gary. At the combine, Winovich was just as fast and had a much better 3 cone drill. Gary is a better athlete, no question, but it wouldn't shock me if Winovich is a better pro. An argument I have seen PFF make. 
 

They like Oliver, but  his production this past year wasn't that great. There are reasons for that, but again they grade mostly based on production. Also Oliver at 11 isn't crazy. He is an interior lineman and in a class with Quinnen/Tillery/Simmons it is very possible Oliver falls outside of the top 10. I still think Oliver ends up being a really good player, but he just doesn't seem that much better than the other 3. 

As for Sweat, i don't get their grade on him. He was pretty impressive in college. Double digit sacks in the SEC last two years, great measurables. 

In the end, PFF watches every single play of every single player giving a player a grade on every play. It's a GREAT tool, but that doesn't make it perfect. If you look at every NFL teams draft history you will see tons of misses also. So PFF is likewise going to miss. However, they are by FAR the best source of pre-draft info. The likes of Kiper/Mcshay/Bucky Brooks are clowns by comparison. But again, that doesn't make them perfect. 

Oliver is 11 because of his production but Metcalf rates 17? Gholstons measurables were worse than expected.  His shuttle was awful and he was 2nd in the nation in sacks.  That is what got him drafted but the myth is perpetuated around here

[PepPep]

On 4/2/2019 at 1:49 PM, JiF said:

Williams is a Guard.

Shocked Oliver, White and Sweat arent on here...

I disagree about Williams. I think he has the size, footwork and hand skills to play OT in the NFL. Just because his arms aren't as long as most prototypical NFL OTs means very little to me. 

Oliver, White and Sweat probably should be on there. But tough to argue against the top 5, IMO. 

[JetFreak89]

For comparison's sake here are there rankings from last year, do we think they lived up to expectations after year 1?

1. BAKER MAYFIELD, OKLAHOMA – QUARTERBACK
2. SAM DARNOLD, USC – QUARTERBACK
3. MAURICE HURST, MICHIGAN – INTERIOR DEFENDER
4. QUENTON NELSON, NOTRE DAME – GUARD
5. DERWIN JAMES, FSU – SAFETY
6. JOSH ROSEN, UCLA – QUARTERBACK
7. ROQUAN SMITH, GEORGIA – LINEBACKER
8. JOSH JACKSON, IOWA – CORNERBACK
9. DENZEL WARD, OHIO STATE – CORNERBACK
10. MINKAH FITZPATRICK, ALABAMA – CORNERBACK
11. SAQUON BARKLEY, PENN STATE – RUNNING BACK
12. HAROLD LANDRY, BOSTON COLLEGE – EDGE DEFENDER
13. BRADLEY CHUBB, NC STATE – EDGE DEFENDER
14. FRANK RAGNOW, ARKANSAS – CENTER
15. MIKE MCGLINCHEY, NOTRE DAME – TACKLE
16. ISAIAH WYNN, GEORGIA – GUARD
17. WILL HERNANDEZ, UTEP – GUARD
18. CONNOR WILLIAMS, TEXAS – TACKLE
19. LAMAR JACKSON, LOUISVILLE – QUARTERBACK
20. VITA VEA, WASHINGTON – INTERIOR DEFENDER
21. DALLAS GOEDERT, SOUTH DAKOTA STATE – TIGHT END
22. JAIRE ALEXANDER, LOUISVILLE – CORNERBACK
23. CALVIN RIDLEY, ALABAMA – WIDE RECEIVER
24. JAMES WASHINGTON, OKLAHOMA STATE – WIDE RECEIVER
25. MASON RUDOLPH, OKLAHOMA STATE – QUARTERBACK

 

[kdels62]

On 4/12/2019 at 12:38 AM, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

A man who makes a living selling data to people either because of or in spite of claiming to be able to meaningfully quantify the fact that Oliver was playing nose tackle in a 3-4/3-5-5 defense that often only rushed three guys and featured as its next-best pass rusher (I sh*t you not) a converted quarterback is a man worth listening to. Just not about football.

In another video they mention that tho they have Oliver rated at a certain place it isn’t the whole story on Oliver. Then they isolated Oliver’s snaps to adjust for how often he played NT, and found that he played there more often than any other DT prospect. They took those snaps out and found that Oliver’s pass rush grade increased to 3rd best in NCAA for an interior lineman. It’s interesting and shows that Oliver’s potential was buried under scheme and coaching.

[section314]

On 4/15/2019 at 5:44 PM, JetFreak89 said:

For comparison's sake here are there rankings from last year, do we think they lived up to expectations after year 1?

1. BAKER MAYFIELD, OKLAHOMA – QUARTERBACK
2. SAM DARNOLD, USC – QUARTERBACK
3. MAURICE HURST, MICHIGAN – INTERIOR DEFENDER
4. QUENTON NELSON, NOTRE DAME – GUARD
5. DERWIN JAMES, FSU – SAFETY
6. JOSH ROSEN, UCLA – QUARTERBACK
7. ROQUAN SMITH, GEORGIA – LINEBACKER
8. JOSH JACKSON, IOWA – CORNERBACK
9. DENZEL WARD, OHIO STATE – CORNERBACK
10. MINKAH FITZPATRICK, ALABAMA – CORNERBACK
11. SAQUON BARKLEY, PENN STATE – RUNNING BACK
12. HAROLD LANDRY, BOSTON COLLEGE – EDGE DEFENDER
13. BRADLEY CHUBB, NC STATE – EDGE DEFENDER
14. FRANK RAGNOW, ARKANSAS – CENTER
15. MIKE MCGLINCHEY, NOTRE DAME – TACKLE
16. ISAIAH WYNN, GEORGIA – GUARD
17. WILL HERNANDEZ, UTEP – GUARD
18. CONNOR WILLIAMS, TEXAS – TACKLE
19. LAMAR JACKSON, LOUISVILLE – QUARTERBACK
20. VITA VEA, WASHINGTON – INTERIOR DEFENDER
21. DALLAS GOEDERT, SOUTH DAKOTA STATE – TIGHT END
22. JAIRE ALEXANDER, LOUISVILLE – CORNERBACK
23. CALVIN RIDLEY, ALABAMA – WIDE RECEIVER
24. JAMES WASHINGTON, OKLAHOMA STATE – WIDE RECEIVER
25. MASON RUDOLPH, OKLAHOMA STATE – QUARTERBACK

 

The top 20, with about 2-3 exceptions, all played well last year. Obviously the order was skewed as to who had the better seasons, but they had the top guys pretty much nailed.

[jetstream23]

On 4/15/2019 at 2:44 PM, JetFreak89 said:

For comparison's sake here are there rankings from last year, do we think they lived up to expectations after year 1?

1. BAKER MAYFIELD, OKLAHOMA – QUARTERBACK
2. SAM DARNOLD, USC – QUARTERBACK
3. MAURICE HURST, MICHIGAN – INTERIOR DEFENDER
4. QUENTON NELSON, NOTRE DAME – GUARD
5. DERWIN JAMES, FSU – SAFETY
6. JOSH ROSEN, UCLA – QUARTERBACK
7. ROQUAN SMITH, GEORGIA – LINEBACKER
8. JOSH JACKSON, IOWA – CORNERBACK
9. DENZEL WARD, OHIO STATE – CORNERBACK
10. MINKAH FITZPATRICK, ALABAMA – CORNERBACK
11. SAQUON BARKLEY, PENN STATE – RUNNING BACK
12. HAROLD LANDRY, BOSTON COLLEGE – EDGE DEFENDER
13. BRADLEY CHUBB, NC STATE – EDGE DEFENDER
14. FRANK RAGNOW, ARKANSAS – CENTER
15. MIKE MCGLINCHEY, NOTRE DAME – TACKLE
16. ISAIAH WYNN, GEORGIA – GUARD
17. WILL HERNANDEZ, UTEP – GUARD
18. CONNOR WILLIAMS, TEXAS – TACKLE
19. LAMAR JACKSON, LOUISVILLE – QUARTERBACK
20. VITA VEA, WASHINGTON – INTERIOR DEFENDER
21. DALLAS GOEDERT, SOUTH DAKOTA STATE – TIGHT END
22. JAIRE ALEXANDER, LOUISVILLE – CORNERBACK
23. CALVIN RIDLEY, ALABAMA – WIDE RECEIVER
24. JAMES WASHINGTON, OKLAHOMA STATE – WIDE RECEIVER
25. MASON RUDOLPH, OKLAHOMA STATE – QUARTERBACK

 

Surprised to see Barkley and Chubb so low.  I thought both of those guys were Top 5 talents along with Nelson, Darnold and Mayfield.

[kdels62]

11 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Surprised to see Barkley and Chubb so low.  I thought both of those guys were Top 5 talents along with Nelson, Darnold and Mayfield.

Bradley Chubb is and was overrated but that’s a rant for another day. Barkley dropped because of his position.

[Thai Jet]

On 4/3/2019 at 9:31 AM, Villain The Foe said:

Based on talent, not injury.

This makes no sense. It's the drafts big board and surely Simmons won't be drafted till perhaps the 2nd round do to the ACL tear, not in the top 10.

[Villain The Foe]

On 4/22/2019 at 6:47 AM, Thai Jet said:

This makes no sense. It's the drafts big board and surely Simmons won't be drafted till perhaps the 2nd round do to the ACL tear, not in the top 10.

And yet it does. This isnt the only big board that has Simmons in the top 10/15 because big boards are about talent. Draft (mock) boards are something different. 

You use both to seek value as the real draft progresses.