What has happened to Vic Beasley? A worse drop-off than Leo Williams?

[jetstream23]

For a couple of years there was a small but loud chorus of people who held major regrets about the Jets taking Leo Williams over Vic Beasley.  I was just reading an article about possible trade-down partners for the Jets in the draft (link below) and the Falcons at #14 were mentioned as a team that may want to come up for a pass-rusher.  This surprised me.  I had thought Beasley was drafted in 2015 to be that guy for Atlanta.  I went back and looked at his statistics and he's had a significant drop off over not one, but two seasons since his stellar 2016 season.

In fact, Leo Williams generated just as many sacks (5) from the interior as Beasley did as an outside pass rusher in 2018.  Williams had significantly more tackles and TFL.  (Beasley played in all 16 games).

The similarities in how the Jets and Falcons may view Williams and Beasley respectively are pretty interesting.  Here, there has been some discussion of the Jets taking Q. Williams at #3 and looking to trade Leo.  That would be a direct replacement with a similar player for lower $$$.  It seems the same thinking is being thrown around for Beasley this year as he heads into his final season under contract in 2019.  Does Atlanta want to move up in the Draft to find an Edge rusher upgrade?

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/03/potential-trade-down-partners-jets-2019-nfl-draft/4/

[dmoe]

If you were a gm, and they said you could have:

Josh Allen/Leo

Vic Beasley/Q Williams

 

Which duo are you taking?

[Jet Nut]

You're going to incite the wrath of the I could easily be a NFL GM from my laptop contingent who used this player as ammunition to make their case

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Just now, dmoe said:

If you were a gm, and they said you could have:

Josh Allen/Leo

Vic Beasley/Q Williams

 

Which duo are you taking?

Ed Oliver over all four of them.

[RutgersJetFan]

A quick first step which gets you by as a rookie, but as time passes you have to get better. Beasley still only has the one thing and that’s it. 

[varjet]

It was not a great draft.  Scot McCloughan was smart enough to take a very good guard at 5-Brandon Scherf.  That is when it makes sense to take a Guard at 5.

The right call was perhaps Gurley at 6, but there was injury risk that Mac was not capable enough to take.  

Williams was not a terrible pick there really.   He just has to work harder.  Half of his issues were Bowles.  

	1	6	New York Jets	Leonard Williams	DE	USC	Pac-12
	1	7	Chicago Bears	Kevin White	WR	West Virginia	Big 12
	1	8	Atlanta Falcons	Vic Beasley †	DE	Clemson	ACC
	1	9	New York Giants	Ereck Flowers	OT	Miami (FL)	ACC
	1	10	St. Louis Rams	Todd Gurley †	RB	Georgia	SEC
	1	11	Minnesota Vikings	Trae Waynes	CB	Michigan State	Big Ten

 

[David Harris]

9 minutes ago, dmoe said:

If you were a gm, and they said you could have:

Josh Allen/Leo

Vic Beasley/Q Williams

 

Which duo are you taking?

Allen/Leo all day

Leo’s solid, just hasn’t lived up to the huge expectations- I remember his draft grade was astronomical, analysts mentioned he could be the next Reggie White. And then a solid and discarded Henry Anderson matches his play last year and we haven’t seen any game altering wow plays from him. He’s a solid lunch pail kinda guy. We’re better with him but still a bit disappointed. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

P.S. Beasley was still the pick and Williams is still a crap sandwich.

[sec101row23]

31 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

A quick first step which gets you by as a rookie, but as time passes you have to get better. Beasley still only has the one thing and that’s it. 

Bingo, Vic hasn’t developed a secondary move yet.  He doesn’t convert speed to power very well so tackles just ride his momentum around the outside of the pocket.  

[UnitedWhofans]

I remember after his great season he basically disappeared in the playoffs (that included the epic collapse). Looking at those names, it really wasn’t a top end of the draft

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Bingo, Vic hasn’t developed a secondary move yet.  He doesn’t convert speed to power very well so tackles just ride his momentum around the outside of the pocket.  

Reminds me a bit of Aaron Maybin when you describe him like that

[Villain The Foe]

Both ended up not reaching expectations. 

 

 

 

 

[UnitedWhofans]

4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Both ended up not reaching expectations. 

 

 

 

 

Reminds me of a certain QB that has been hyped by certain people...

[Villain The Foe]

10 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Reminds me of a certain QB that has been hyped by certain people...

Are you waiting for me to ask you who this qb is and who are these certain people? 

Speak freely, words arent like paywalls

[Jet Life]

59 minutes ago, dmoe said:

If you were a gm, and they said you could have:

Josh Allen/Leo

Vic Beasley/Q Williams

 

Which duo are you taking?

Allen/Leo

[JustInFudge]

I feel like we are witnessing the point with Williams where Jets fans do that thing they do.  You know, when players that are actually good become terrible humans worst player in the league because they're not; name the current best player in the league at that position.

 

 

[Joe W. Namath]

Leo has never dropped off.  Hes never been good.

[kdels62]

Leo is the better player by a mile and choosing his floor over Beasley’s ceiling was a good choice. However, the bigger issue was Mac’s inability to flip Mo Wilk or Sheldon at the time. If he had been able to work a trade of Wilk for a 2nd and 3rd (rather than hold out for a 1st) we’d have been a team with higher upside and more money.

[Jetsfan80]

I'd still rather take a pass rusher and have him fail than take an interior DT who doesn't have the athleticism to rush the passer from the start. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

Leo is the better player by a mile and choosing his floor over Beasley’s ceiling was a good choice. However, the bigger issue was Mac’s in ability to flip Mo Wilk or Sheldon at the time. If he had been able to work a trade of Wilk for a 2nd and 3rd (rather than hold out for a 1st) we’d have been a team with higher upside and more money.

This too. 

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

It was not a great draft.  Scot McCloughan was smart enough to take a very good guard at 5-Brandon Scherf.  That is when it makes sense to take a Guard at 5.

 The right call was perhaps Gurley at 6, but there was injury risk that Mac was not capable enough to take.  

Williams was not a terrible pick there really.   He just has to work harder.  Half of his issues were Bowles.  

	1	6	New York Jets	Leonard Williams	DE	USC	Pac-12
	1	7	Chicago Bears	Kevin White	WR	West Virginia	Big 12
	1	8	Atlanta Falcons	Vic Beasley †	DE	Clemson	ACC
	1	9	New York Giants	Ereck Flowers	OT	Miami (FL)	ACC
	1	10	St. Louis Rams	Todd Gurley †	RB	Georgia	SEC
	1	11	Minnesota Vikings	Trae Waynes	CB	Michigan State	Big Ten

 

I'll man up and admit I was very interested in Kevin White.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

53 minutes ago, JiF said:

I feel like we are witnessing the point with Williams where Jets fans do that thing they do.  You know, when players that are actually good become terrible humans worst player in the league because they're not; name the current best player in the league at that position.

  

 

You can tell we're bad Jets fans when Broncos fans are telling us we're not kissassy enough about the Jets.

[varjet]

27 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'll man up and admit I was very interested in Kevin White.

He may have been the worst player of the 6 at 6-11.  

[varjet]

This are my questions, which we may not ever know the answer to:

The Jets are paying Leo $14mm this year.  If they opted not to sign him next year, what would another team pay him?

The Browns and their astute GM are paying Sheldon $13mm this year.  Would you rather have Leo at 14 or Sheldon at 13?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

5 minutes ago, varjet said:

This are my questions, which we may not ever know the answer to:

The Jets are paying Leo $14mm this year.  If they opted not to sign him next year, what would another team pay him?

 The Browns and their astute GM are paying Sheldon $13mm this year.  Would you rather have Leo at 14 or Sheldon at 13?

Sheldon at 13. Heartbeat.

[UntouchableCrew]

14 minutes ago, varjet said:

He may have been the worst player of the 6 at 6-11.  

It's either him or Ereck Flowers. Both were abject disasters... At least with White a lot of it is injury based though.

[kdels62]

22 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Sheldon at 13. Heartbeat.

What about Leo with an extension that pays him 12 per?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

15 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

What about Leo with an extension that pays him 12 per?

I'd really prefer that not even be one of the choices.

[Beerfish]

29.5 sacks and 9 forced fumbles

17 sacks and 2 forced fumbles.

[varjet]

27 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

What about Leo with an extension that pays him 12 per?

This is basically the Mac weakspot, right?  

How many Steeler first round picks see their 5th year options?  They extend.  If the Jets thought Leo was part of the future, you don't pay him 14 this year, you extend him 3 x 12 maybe.  

[kdels62]

17 minutes ago, varjet said:

This is basically the Mac weakspot, right?  

How many Steeler first round picks see their 5th year options?  They extend.  If the Jets thought Leo was part of the future, you don't pay him 14 this year, you extend him 3 x 12 maybe.  

Yes. Let’s say Williams with Allen or Bosa or Oliver next to him turns his pressures and QB hits into sacks. This means he’s suddenly worth $16 million a year. We either franchise him and get him for a season at a high cost or extend him at much higher a price than we would’ve asked for right now.

[varjet]

Leo is one of the stars of the uniform debut.  He is not going anywhere.  

[rammagen]

living in the ATL there is a ton of questions about him. He may even end up being a cap causality. They tagged their dt and are trying to rework Julio's contract and little money left when they exercised the 5th yr, they would eat a portion but would get some cap relief fast. even a afternoon guy Mike Bell has a bet with his partner that he will get Vic's face tattooed if he can get double digit sacks.

 

[choon328]

9 hours ago, varjet said:

This are my questions, which we may not ever know the answer to:

The Jets are paying Leo $14mm this year.  If they opted not to sign him next year, what would another team pay him?

The Browns and their astute GM are paying Sheldon $13mm this year.  Would you rather have Leo at 14 or Sheldon at 13?

Neither. That was easy

[choon328]

Paying any DT big money who doesn't get 10+ sacks per year is a terrible way to run your franchise. Leo is replaceable for half the money it would require to keep him.