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Jawaan Taylor should still be the pick. We never won or lost anything because we didn’t have an elite edge rusher. Great opposing QBs usually render them useless anyway (see Dee Ford and Tom Brady). Building the OL is the most important thing that can be done to advance the development of not only Sam but our entire offense. Our defensive scheme will prove to be a more valuable asset than any other defensive player we draft.

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4 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Sam had plenty of time last year, Bates was a horrific play caller. Sam & the Jets faced the 2nd most 3rd & longs in the league. 

The Patriots continue to replace their Oline year after year with late picks. It's coaching, play calling & getting the ball out on time. 

Im not passing up a top edge rusher for an average lineman. There are no Quenton Nelsons, Orlando Pace or DBricks in this draft. I get the trade back but I'm still going BPA with the 1st pick regardless of position. 

Sam was constantly rushed but his elusiveness and ability to extend the play or get the ball out quick,covered it up. This was especially evident early in the year when he constantly got harassed and then was a whole new QB when he came back from sitting due to his injury and coaches wanting him to observe. 

It’s not ideal but at least he can cover up OL deficiencies. We need to give him an ideal environment so he can reach his potential. Then he can worry about improvising and playing like Aaron Rodgers. 

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43 minutes ago, Viermoo said:

Jawaan Taylor should still be the pick. We never won or lost anything because we didn’t have an elite edge rusher. Great opposing QBs usually render them useless anyway (see Dee Ford and Tom Brady). Building the OL is the most important thing that can be done to advance the development of not only Sam but our entire offense. Our defensive scheme will prove to be a more valuable asset than any other defensive player we draft.

While I agree with your point and wouldn’t hate the pick there are a couple of things to realize and I’m playing devil’s advocate a little here:

1. Jawaan may be better suited as a RT. Which in today’s people like Mack come off that Edge so its almost as valuable as LT. Yes Jawaan played Left as well, but he may be playing full potential at RT. In that sense it wouldn’t bother me if he played RT.

2. Do you see him as making a greater impact than Bosa/Q/Allen? I get your point the good qb’s neutralize good pass rush. But, building a great OL isn’t always done by picking high. Multiple ways to build the trenches. And a good pass rush gets the defense off the field on 3rd downs.

I do believe our biggest priority is protecting and developing Darnold. So how can I say I’d rather Q or Allen or Bosa? I think we can find good OL value in rounds 3/4, and that our new OL coach is one of the best in the business.

I wouldn’t hate the pick but I’d rather us take The edge rush. If we trade down, different story. But I definitely wouldn’t hate the pick. 

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15 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

While I agree with your point and wouldn’t hate the pick there are a couple of things to realize and I’m playing devil’s advocate a little here:

1. Jawaan may be better suited as a RT. Which in today’s people like Mack come off that Edge so its almost as valuable as LT. Yes Jawaan played Left as well, but he may be playing full potential at RT. In that sense it wouldn’t bother me if he played RT.

2. Do you see him as making a greater impact than Bosa/Q/Allen? I get your point the good qb’s neutralize good pass rush. But, building a great OL isn’t always done by picking high. Multiple ways to build the trenches. And a good pass rush gets the defense off the field on 3rd downs.

I do believe our biggest priority is protecting and developing Darnold. So how can I say I’d rather Q or Allen or Bosa? I think we can find good OL value in rounds 3/4, and that our new OL coach is one of the best in the business.

I wouldn’t hate the pick but I’d rather us take The edge rush. If we trade down, different story. But I definitely wouldn’t hate the pick. 

Impact is a matter of interpretation. From an individual standpoint an o-lineman’s stat line would not be as impressive as an edge player. Thing is offensive production as a whole would trump that of an edge rusher. 

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1 hour ago, Viermoo said:

Jawaan Taylor should still be the pick. We never won or lost anything because we didn’t have an elite edge rusher. Great opposing QBs usually render them useless anyway (see Dee Ford and Tom Brady). Building the OL is the most important thing that can be done to advance the development of not only Sam but our entire offense. Our defensive scheme will prove to be a more valuable asset than any other defensive player we draft.

can't say i know much about the players but with the no. 3 pick they better pick the guy who will make the greatest impact  from day one.  this appears to be bosa or allen.  yes they need oline but they can probably get a guy who is nearly as good as taylor in round 3.  and the way beacham has played means lt isn't quite a huge requirement this draft.  center is probably the biggest oline need this draft.

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1 hour ago, Viermoo said:

Jawaan Taylor should still be the pick. We never won or lost anything because we didn’t have an elite edge rusher. Great opposing QBs usually render them useless anyway (see Dee Ford and Tom Brady). Building the OL is the most important thing that can be done to advance the development of not only Sam but our entire offense. Our defensive scheme will prove to be a more valuable asset than any other defensive player we draft.

Edge rusher... There are plenty of decent lineman in the middle of the draft

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1 hour ago, Viermoo said:

Jawaan Taylor should still be the pick. We never won or lost anything because we didn’t have an elite edge rusher. Great opposing QBs usually render them useless anyway (see Dee Ford and Tom Brady). Building the OL is the most important thing that can be done to advance the development of not only Sam but our entire offense. Our defensive scheme will prove to be a more valuable asset than any other defensive player we draft.

One game doesn't diminish the need for an elite edge rusher.  And ignored the point that their play helped get their team to the playoffs or SB.  You want to point to Dee Ford, you can just as easily point to Von Miller helping push an ineffective Manning to a ring, making Cams life miserable.  

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48 minutes ago, Bocajetfan said:

Impact is a matter of interpretation. From an individual standpoint an o-lineman’s stat line would not be as impressive as an edge player. Thing is offensive production as a whole would trump that of an edge rusher. 

Agreed but can value be obtained at the RT tackle position for less investment? Will Jawaan be a top player at his position in 4 years? I’m not saying one way or another. Just saying how high you project someone will determine the pick. 

I can almost guarentee you Jawaan is not rated as highly as Q or Allen on anyone’s board.

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2 hours ago, Viermoo said:

Jawaan Taylor should still be the pick. We never won or lost anything because we didn’t have an elite edge rusher. Great opposing QBs usually render them useless anyway (see Dee Ford and Tom Brady). Building the OL is the most important thing that can be done to advance the development of not only Sam but our entire offense. Our defensive scheme will prove to be a more valuable asset than any other defensive player we draft.

I don't necessarily agree with the player, but the explanation is spot on. 

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10 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Agreed but can value be obtained at the RT tackle position for less investment? Will Jawaan be a top player at his position in 4 years? I’m not saying one way or another. Just saying how high you project someone will determine the pick. 

I can almost guarentee you Jawaan is not rated as highly as Q or Allen on anyone’s board.

This is why the Draft is such a crap shoot. Its not just individual talent but how that talent impacts the team as a whole. Can a player be impactful for 5 plus years (second contract). If you believe any player can impact your team that way draft him regardless of position. RT, Edge, DT, LT, Center, DB, Guard, LB will that player project to one worth of a second contract that’s what I want from my first round pick that’s an impact player.

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2 hours ago, Viermoo said:

Jawaan Taylor should still be the pick. We never won or lost anything because we didn’t have an elite edge rusher. Great opposing QBs usually render them useless anyway (see Dee Ford and Tom Brady). Building the OL is the most important thing that can be done to advance the development of not only Sam but our entire offense. Our defensive scheme will prove to be a more valuable asset than any other defensive player we draft.

Don’t agree, and Would never happen with Mac. There is not a gm in nfl who values OL less than bigmac

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19 minutes ago, Bocajetfan said:

This is why the Draft is such a crap shoot. Its not just individual talent but how that talent impacts the team as a whole. Can a player be impactful for 5 plus years (second contract). If you believe any player can impact your team that way draft him regardless of position. RT, Edge, DT, LT, Center, DB, Guard, LB will that player project to one worth of a second contract that’s what I want from my first round pick that’s an impact player.

My hunch is that mccagnan’s ideal scenario is that he can trade back and draft either taylor or Jonah williams in the first round.  With a 2nd rounder he can take a cb or center.  

If forced to pick at #3 i think he takes allen, and while that doesn’t help the OL situation I do think he will be a very good pro.  He’s 6’5” and forced 5 fumbles last year, and i think he’ll make a difference.

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2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Sam had plenty of time last year, Bates was a horrific play caller. Sam & the Jets faced the 2nd most 3rd & longs in the league. 

The Patriots continue to replace their Oline year after year with late picks. It's coaching, play calling & getting the ball out on time. 

Im not passing up a top edge rusher for an average lineman. There are no Quenton Nelsons, Orlando Pace or DBricks in this draft. I get the trade back but I'm still going BPA with the 1st pick regardless of position. 

The only issue is that Gase is a student of Martz... and Martz & Gase put their QB's in positions where they do get hit... a lot.... Still I DO NOT want Taylor @ #3.

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1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

We shouldn’t reach for any position and QBs can’t play great without time and Darnold is a rookie. 

Darnold’s now a second year player who finished last season playing at a very high level making his own time. Don’t get me wrong, I’m in favor of the Jets drafting OL, particularly in that 3-4 round range. That #3 overall needs to be the BAP, though, which this year is almost certainly a defender. 

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4 hours ago, Viermoo said:

Jawaan Taylor should still be the pick. We never won or lost anything because we didn’t have an elite edge rusher. Great opposing QBs usually render them useless anyway (see Dee Ford and Tom Brady). Building the OL is the most important thing that can be done to advance the development of not only Sam but our entire offense. Our defensive scheme will prove to be a more valuable asset than any other defensive player we draft.

If an elite rush from the edge doesn't win or lose games then why do we have to take a guy #3 in order to protect against edge rushers?

I support the idea of investing high picks on the OLine but #3 is way too early for a Top 10-15 talent.  If the Jets traded back to somewhere between 6 and 15 and ended up with Taylor, Dillard or J. Williams I'd probably be okay with it.  At 3 you have to take one of the best 3 players in the draft (Bosa, Allen, Q. Williams) or trade the pick IMO.

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4 hours ago, Viermoo said:

Jawaan Taylor should still be the pick. We never won or lost anything because we didn’t have an elite edge rusher. Great opposing QBs usually render them useless anyway (see Dee Ford and Tom Brady). Building the OL is the most important thing that can be done to advance the development of not only Sam but our entire offense. Our defensive scheme will prove to be a more valuable asset than any other defensive player we draft.

I don't nec. agree with all of this. Its a balance. Great pass rushers definitely affect the outcome of the game. Saying 'see Dee Ford and Tom Brady' is not good enough reasoning. How about see the last SB...dominated by the defense. Tom Brady is also an outlier. You are talking about arguably the best QB EVER. He will make any great pass rusher look ineffective, even if the OT on his team is a JAG. 

I get it- we need to protect Sam. But I think the Jets O-line gets way too much criticism. They were terrible in the run game but middle of the pack in pass protection. 

Sure, trading down would be great. But to suggest that J.Taylor is somehow going to be the savior or a perennial pro bowl LT is simply inaccurate. I have more faith in J.Williams. Although he may end up being an interior lineman at the NFL level. And if we can't trade down, there is no way I'm taking either at 3 overall. The O-line will hold up without either of them and should be better with the addition of Osemele (LG was the biggest weakness last year), a healthy Shell and Harrison firmly at C (assuming a rookie we get in the 3rd doesn't outplay him for the starting spot). That's just how I feel. The Jets can always go LT in the first round next year (especially if Allen or Bosa look legit their rookie year).

To me, you need an elite QB, LT/OT, and Pass Rusher first and foremost to build a winning team. We got Sam last year. This year the is the perfect opportunity to get an elite Pass Rusher not OT. Maybe we get lucky with a mid round OT but otherwise I would rather look to take one next year.   

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1 minute ago, Adoni Beast said:

Based on our player visit list. I do think we have a trade back in place with one or two teams. Most of these guys are middle of first, second round, potentially third round guys.

I think we’re just waiting until draft day to see how the board falls. 

So you are saying there is no plan?

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I think most fans want to see the Jets trade back. We also know it takes a partner to do so. There may be partners out there but there are partners then there are partners. Finding a partner that makes sense could be difficult. Not looking for a Kings ransom fair and equitable. 

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6 hours ago, Jetster said:

Sam had plenty of time last year, Bates was a horrific play caller. Sam & the Jets faced the 2nd most 3rd & longs in the league. 

The Patriots continue to replace their Oline year after year with late picks. It's coaching, play calling & getting the ball out on time. 

Im not passing up a top edge rusher for an average lineman. There are no Quenton Nelsons, Orlando Pace or DBricks in this draft. I get the trade back but I'm still going BPA with the 1st pick regardless of position. 

The consensus at this point seems to be Q. Williams is the best player in this draft.

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8 hours ago, slats said:

If great QB play can render pass rushers useless, why do we need to reach to draft someone to block them? 

I guess the idea would be to surround Darnold with enough talent to increase the likelihood he becomes a great QB.

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8 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

That's a pretty dumb idea.

I'm pretty far in the QBs cant be ruined camp but Darnold inexperiance makes him a prime candidate to develop more bad habits while he learns on the job here 

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17 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

While I agree with your point and wouldn’t hate the pick there are a couple of things to realize and I’m playing devil’s advocate a little here:

1. Jawaan may be better suited as a RT. Which in today’s people like Mack come off that Edge so its almost as valuable as LT. Yes Jawaan played Left as well, but he may be playing full potential at RT. In that sense it wouldn’t bother me if he played RT.

2. Do you see him as making a greater impact than Bosa/Q/Allen? I get your point the good qb’s neutralize good pass rush. But, building a great OL isn’t always done by picking high. Multiple ways to build the trenches. And a good pass rush gets the defense off the field on 3rd downs.

I do believe our biggest priority is protecting and developing Darnold. So how can I say I’d rather Q or Allen or Bosa? I think we can find good OL value in rounds 3/4, and that our new OL coach is one of the best in the business.

I wouldn’t hate the pick but I’d rather us take The edge rush. If we trade down, different story. But I definitely wouldn’t hate the pick. 

I understand your reasoning entirely.  But I don't like the tackles beyond the top 5, who will all be long gone.  Later on there's Tytus Howard, who visited the Jets.  But he visited 24 teams so a lot of teams are looking for 3-4th OTs.  He might be gone too.  The top 4 or 5 will all be done by early rd 2.  Plus, I'd likely want to use my early 3rd on a center. It's a big problem not having a 2nd round pick.  The price for getting Darnold.  They need to trade back a little and get a 2nd.   Get Sweat in rd 1 + C rd 2 with a trade back.  and take the leftovers on OT within the next two picks.  Id love to have Allen. Dont get me wrong.  But Id painfully downgrade to Sweat if it meant we get that OL in rd 2.  Price of Darnold.

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