Jump to content

Why can’t Mac get a 2nd for Leo?


Philc1
 Share

Recommended Posts

When he got a 2nd for Sheldon a couple years ago under similar circumstances?

 

theres a couple reasons to do this 1) jets get a second round pick 2) this prevents the inevitable albatross $100 million contract Mac will give to Leo next offseason and 3) it clears the way for us to draft the best player in this draft

 

 

 

792DBFC8-9A04-4BC0-B71A-4DD9FAC6B2F0.jpeg

  • Upvote 1
  • Thumb Down 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

We should trade Leo for a 2nd. Robby Anderson for a 3rd. Darnold for a 1st. Herndon for a future 2nd. CJ Mosley for a 2nd. Jamal Adams for a 1st. And just keep doing that every year because our fanbase doesn't like good players. 

Leo is a glorified Mike Devito

  • Upvote 3
  • Thumb Down 6
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

We should trade Leo for a 2nd. Robby Anderson for a 3rd. Darnold for a 1st. Herndon for a future 2nd. CJ Mosley for a 2nd. Jamal Adams for a 1st. And just keep doing that every year because our fanbase doesn't like good players. 

I think that is a good point although exaggerated. You are supposed to draft and pay your guys. Your guys are supposed to be positions of impact, first off your QB then your pass rusher, or star WR or RB etc...

Leo was drafted by us and should be paid by us if he shows up and deserved the contract. If he remains Ave this year, he will be offered crap and sing elsewhere and we get a compensation pick.

I'm good with that and if he balls out we pay him and the locker room gets the idea perform and get paid. Once you get your guys you should pay the guys who deserve it by being elite. 

But if they are not elite, see Harris, mo wilk, etc...let them walk. Don't pay for average. Eventually if you get lucky in the draft you have too many guys and then guys like our new linebacker go to FA and teams that suck in drafting over pay for them.

I'm good with us paying for elite talent , Thai mean Bell, I'm good with us singing money for the above Ave play on def, because the guy instantly changed culure on def and can bring some needed attitude. Sure not quote unqoute impact player but so much better than anything we have had in a long time. My point is we suck at drafting and our part now is to pay for players.

BUT now we have QB, he will get paid. We have to hit on some draft picks. We have to keep guys like Leo to see if they can live up to the pick or at least get us some draft capital for trade or other wise. Makes no sense to trade for a secknd. Imo. I could be wrong but we need to hold on to him for just a little while longer.

It's all hope and rainbows right now as far as this team. I am hoping we fixed our coaching staff and I hope that will get some return on players that we have on the roster - like with Rex - remember that scrub team? He took added Bart and made them contenders with FA attitude and coaching them up. Let's see how these guys who have had crap coaches for the last few seasons play with an adult coaching.

I'm all for cutting bait and not paying if they don't deserve it - measured specifically by if they are above Ave or elite and by level of impact the position has. I was completely fine with not paying for elite kicker or punt returner. That is position you can have any one play and get above Ave play from. Not position like leo- no we need talented guys there.

Anyway this is way to long of a response you get the idea 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

When he got a 2nd for Sheldon a couple years ago under similar circumstances?

 

theres a couple reasons to do this 1) jets get a second round pick 2) this prevents the inevitable albatross $100 million contract Mac will give to Leo next offseason and 3) it clears the way for us to draft the best player in this draft

 

 

 

792DBFC8-9A04-4BC0-B71A-4DD9FAC6B2F0.jpeg

I think the Jets could get a 2nd for him but it would have to be during or after the draft like the Richardson trade was. Both of their first 4 seasons are amazingly similar.

I am sure the Jets have had talks with teams regarding Leo and possibly what they could get for him. I think most teams would likely want to see how the 1st and early part of the 2nd round shake out before deciding on consummating a trade for Leo.

Bc of the depth of this draft on the defensive line I do think the Jets could move on from him if a team offered a 2nd. Plus there are still veteran FA's out there that they could bring in to fill roles at edge and DE for a year. Also, a lot of people are forgetting about Nathan Shepherd who was brought in to play Leo's position. He had an underwhelming first year but I expect improvement in 2019. And honestly, Leo had an average year last year. It will not be hard to replace his production at all.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s not that he can’t Its the fact the new Coaching staff loves Leo and views him as a core piece going forward .  Quinnen and Leo can play together just fine since Quinnen can and has line up NT. So there’s no need to trade one to have the other ..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I think that is a good point although exaggerated. You are supposed to draft and pay your guys. Your guys are supposed to be positions of impact, first off your QB then your pass rusher, or star WR or RB etc...

Leo was drafted by us and should be paid by us if he shows up and deserved the contract. If he remains Ave this year, he will be offered crap and sing elsewhere and we get a compensation pick.

I'm good with that and if he balls out we pay him and the locker room gets the idea perform and get paid. Once you get your guys you should pay the guys who deserve it by being elite. 

But if they are not elite, see Harris, mo wilk, etc...let them walk. Don't pay for average. Eventually if you get lucky in the draft you have too many guys and then guys like our new linebacker go to FA and teams that suck in drafting over pay for them.

I'm good with us paying for elite talent , Thai mean Bell, I'm good with us singing money for the above Ave play on def, because the guy instantly changed culure on def and can bring some needed attitude. Sure not quote unqoute impact player but so much better than anything we have had in a long time. My point is we suck at drafting and our part now is to pay for players.

BUT now we have QB, he will get paid. We have to hit on some draft picks. We have to keep guys like Leo to see if they can live up to the pick or at least get us some draft capital for trade or other wise. Makes no sense to trade for a secknd. Imo. I could be wrong but we need to hold on to him for just a little while longer.

It's all hope and rainbows right now as far as this team. I am hoping we fixed our coaching staff and I hope that will get some return on players that we have on the roster - like with Rex - remember that scrub team? He took added Bart and made them contenders with FA attitude and coaching them up. Let's see how these guys who have had crap coaches for the last few seasons play with an adult coaching.

I'm all for cutting bait and not paying if they don't deserve it - measured specifically by if they are above Ave or elite and by level of impact the position has. I was completely fine with not paying for elite kicker or punt returner. That is position you can have any one play and get above Ave play from. Not position like leo- no we need talented guys there.

Anyway this is way to long of a response you get the idea 

You're not getting a comp pick for Leo bc the Jets will be very active in FA again next year. 

Mo got a contract extension after a 12 sack season, Leo has 17 sacks in 4 years playing the same position. Mo was elite when they gave him that contract but was lazy afterwards. Leo is nowhere near elite and way closer to average. 

There is no benefit in letting Leo play out next year. He has been average and if he has a very good year next year teams should not be in the habit of paying big money to a guy who had 1 big year in a contract year. That hardly ever works out well. The Jets would be idiotic not to take a 2nd for him at this point. 

  • Upvote 2
  • Post of the Week 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

It’s not that he can’t Its the fact the new Coaching staff loves Leo and views him as a core piece going forward .  2nd Quinnen and Leo can play together just fine since Quinnen can and has line up NT. So there’s no need to trade one to have the other ..

If they thought that he'd have an extension already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, choon328 said:

If they thought that he'd have an extension already.

Mac already said they want to sign him to extension .. you guys seem to have hard time believing what Gase and Macc say. Cause even after he said that a lot of you swore he was driving up Leo trade price. Here we are months later and Leo was up there modeling jerseys with the rest of our Core players. And Gase has talk him up in multiple interviews.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Leo is a glorified Mike Devito

Mike Devito was a nice player for us. Had a BIG sack of Philip Rivera in the 2009 divisional round playoff upset.

With that said, Leonard Williams is a much better player than Devito was. Had he been a disappointment? Mildly. But I want what he'll look like with talent on the DL.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

When he got a 2nd for Sheldon a couple years ago under similar circumstances?

 

theres a couple reasons to do this 1) jets get a second round pick 2) this prevents the inevitable albatross $100 million contract Mac will give to Leo next offseason and 3) it clears the way for us to draft the best player in this draft

 

 

 

792DBFC8-9A04-4BC0-B71A-4DD9FAC6B2F0.jpeg

What's the issue with Leo?   Yes he's NOT what we thought but trade him?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A normal year and the Jets might find someone willing to give a second round pick  for Leonard Williams.    This draft is loaded with defensive tackles .( supply and demand) 

Why would a team trade a high pick, and pay his high salary, when they can just draft a DT much  cheaper.

The Raiders have already 5 DT's on their roster, if they are forced to draft Q Williams( BPA)  than your forced to play one of those DT's out of position.  Or you're looking to move one of those DT's in a trade.( not getting their worth- only way if this draft was lacking DT depth).    

I hope the Jets draft Q Williams , or trades to a team that takes him.   A pass rushing De like Montez Sweat is more a priority than force feeding best player available. Mayock is a BPA guy.( going to take that Everytime over lesser player at need position).

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The tea leaves point to us using a 3-3-5 as our base. I think this is why we haven’t really looked at Bosa. A 3-3-5 with Leo, Anderson and either Williams or Oliver on the line or Allen as the pass rushing LB is the decision our coaching staff is trying make. So yes, I think they might take Q but they also want to keep Leo

  • Sympathy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

We should trade Leo for a 2nd. Robby Anderson for a 3rd. Darnold for a 1st. Herndon for a future 2nd. CJ Mosley for a 2nd. Jamal Adams for a 1st. And just keep doing that every year because our fanbase doesn't like good players. 

Jet fans. 

Can’t wait to trade our good players for draft picks in the hope they become good players. 

You can’t make this up. 

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Jet fans. 

Can’t wait to trade our good players for draft picks in the hope they become good players. 

You can’t make this up. 

The point of contention is Williams is a good player now looking to get paid like a great player.

Then there's the argument that he needs better talent around him to excel.

Like when Wilk, Snacks, Sheldon were around and he was still underwhelming?

Or was it the coaching? Dont worry new DC will fire him up.

What exactly is it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

The tea leaves point to us using a 3-3-5 as our base. I think this is why we haven’t really looked at Bosa. A 3-3-5 with Leo, Anderson and either Williams or Oliver on the line or Allen as the pass rushing LB is the decision our coaching staff is trying make. So yes, I think they might take Q but they also want to keep Leo

Which DT You playing at the NT between Q Williams/ Oliver , L Williams and Anderson.   None of them are a NT.    Jets are going to be 3-4 defense .    They either draft Q Williams to team with L Williams as the De's in 3-4.   ( Anderson is reserve) .    Or they draft Josh Allen to be one of the outside lb's.       ( this is assuming they don't trade back).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

We should trade Leo for a 2nd. Robby Anderson for a 3rd. Darnold for a 1st. Herndon for a future 2nd. CJ Mosley for a 2nd. Jamal Adams for a 1st. And just keep doing that every year because our fanbase doesn't like good players. 

we are a little short of starting type players as it is. I think the idea is to add to the pack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

What's the issue with Leo?   Yes he's NOT what we thought but trade him?

The only question with Leonard Williams coming out was his strength .( bum shoulder) You look at the premier DT's and those guys usually are some of the strongest guys( Bp in the high 30's) .

You have a strong guard like Osemele lined up against L Williams he's going to put Williams on his back a number of times.  Big difference playing against kids in college, versus facing grown men every week. ( strength better be there).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The schmuck has no ability to rush the passer.

Pass rushers need two qualities explosion and bend , williams has neither.

Explosion is measured by the Kirwin formula adding the BP, LJ, VJ, LW

numbers are awful but not as bad as his  3 cone 7.59 which is the measure of bend

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

It’s not that he can’t Its the fact the new Coaching staff loves Leo and views him as a core piece going forward .  Quinnen and Leo can play together just fine since Quinnen can and has line up NT. So there’s no need to trade one to have the other ..

You aren't drafting a guy at number 3 and putting him at NT.  There is a big difference playing NT in college versus the Pro's.     Do you know the abuse NT see in the NFL.( think     Kris Jenkins).      On passing downs might let him play inside, but not on running plays.

You're playing a 3-4 defense Q Williams is playing one of the De's positions with Leonard Williams playing the other.  Pass rush in 3-4 should come from olb's .

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok...I have been a new member for about 2 weeks now and I finally have something I can argue about!

Trading Leo isn't helpful for a number of reasons:

-He is still so young and talented: Has he lived up to the #6 overall draft status? No, probably not, but he is still a good/very good player that WE drafted. Good franchises don't give up on young players like this who are good.

-5th year option: the 5th year option is designed for players EXACTLY like Leo. He hasn't played up to his draft status, so by exercising the 5th year option, you have to pay him a little more, but you also get another season to develop/watch film on him. By keeping Leo here, we keep a B/B+ player on the defense for 1 more season. If he plays lights out, we can tag him or sign him. If he stinks the place up, we can keep him on the cheap or let him walk. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

The only question with Leonard Williams coming out was his strength .( bum shoulder) You look at the premier DT's and those guys usually are some of the strongest guys( Bp in the high 30's) .

You have a strong guard like Osemele lined up against L Williams he's going to put Williams on his back a number of times.  Big difference playing against kids in college, versus facing grown men every week. ( strength better be there).

I guess there's no linemen worth drafting this year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the people who brought you ‘Baker Mayfield is undraftable’ comes this Spring’s scorching-ist hottest take, ‘Quinnen Williams is the best player in the draft.’  

AM New York gives it: 🔥🔥🔥🔥

Metro NY says, “Bold.  But, no.”

Coming to your favorite message board this April.

  • Thumb Down 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

The tea leaves point to us using a 3-3-5 as our base. I think this is why we haven’t really looked at Bosa. A 3-3-5 with Leo, Anderson and either Williams or Oliver on the line or Allen as the pass rushing LB is the decision our coaching staff is trying make. So yes, I think they might take Q but they also want to keep Leo

The Jets will run a 3-3-5 as a base because of Jamal Adams.  He is the Swiss Army Knife, S who can play LB and vice versa who can make that defense work.   I am somewhat surprised they let Brooks walk-they could have used a safety like that who can cover.  

So for those who see Adams as overdrafted (and I think there is a good argument for that), let’s see if this defense can work with Adams playing that role.   The key to the defense will be Mosley.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Which DT You playing at the NT between Q Williams/ Oliver , L Williams and Anderson.   None of them are a NT.    Jets are going to be 3-4 defense .    They either draft Q Williams to team with L Williams as the De's in 3-4.   ( Anderson is reserve) .    Or they draft Josh Allen to be one of the outside lb's.       ( this is assuming they don't trade back).

 

So let’s say I said the Jets are gonna play out of a 3-3-5 base and you responded to that instead of bringing up something entirely unrelated .

The 3-3-5 will allow the Jets to take Oliver or Q, play their 3 best lineman and let them penetrate. It should work considering they’d have 3 above average rushers from the DT position. If they go to a 3-4 base then McClendon comes in at NT as he did for most of the last 3 seasons. If they go 4-3, Copeland or Luvu play outside with Q/EO and Leo/ Anderson. But the 3-3-5 is gonna be their base because the draft player available couples with signing Mosley to allow them to excel in this formation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

You aren't drafting a guy at number 3 and putting him at NT.  There is a big difference playing NT in college versus the Pro's.     Do you know the abuse NT see in the NFL.( think     Kris Jenkins).      On passing downs might let him play inside, but not on running plays.

You're playing a 3-4 defense Q Williams is playing one of the De's positions with Leonard Williams playing the other.  Pass rush in 3-4 should come from olb's .

 

Everyone knows the jets are gonna run a hybrid front . My point was he can play anywhere on the dline . With teams in nickle and dime damn near 70% of time .. NT aren’t taking some huge abuse like back in the day  .  . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...