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Why can’t Mac get a 2nd for Leo?


Philc1

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Just now, genot said:

Maybe that is harsh. He is a good player, but would you give him a 90M contract? If the answer is no, OPs suggestion isnt crazy. Its hardly a crazy suggestion to trade a player in the last year of his deal and replace them cheaper. It happens often.

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4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

If you're going to lose that "good" player for nothing then yes.

There are really 3 options here with Leo. Let's go on the premise that he'll have 8-10 sacks next year even though that goes against everything he's done in NFL so far.

Option 1: Pay Leo $16-$18 million per year over 5 years for 1 year of very good production

Option 2: Trade him for a 2nd round pick and have that player for 4 years

Option 3: No trade, let him play out the season and he hits free agency. (No comp pick bc the Jets have a ton of money to spend next off-season)

 

I'm taking option 2 all day every day.

Like I said, sounds like a plan.

Not a good plan but a plan nonetheless.

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12 minutes ago, Jet Life said:

and Leo is in his last season. Jones is still a monster. Seymour in the last year of his deal comes to mind too though. and Jaime Collins. and Branch in his last year. But you get the point by now

No it's the off-season headed into his last season. 

Without a drug issue.

Seymour was as old and on a second deal.

Throw this in, we have no idea what Leo wants yet.  As of today nothing is comparable

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

No it's the off-season headed into his last season. 

Without a drug issue.

Seymour was as old and on a second deal.

Throw this in, we have no idea what Leo wants yet.  As is today nothing is comparable

It's been reported he wants $16-$18 million per year.

Well, it hasn't been reported anywhere but somebody said it on one of the internets so it must be true.

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10 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I think that is a good point although exaggerated. You are supposed to draft and pay your guys. Your guys are supposed to be positions of impact, first off your QB then your pass rusher, or star WR or RB etc...

Leo was drafted by us and should be paid by us if he shows up and deserved the contract. If he remains Ave this year, he will be offered crap and sing elsewhere and we get a compensation pick.

I'm good with that and if he balls out we pay him and the locker room gets the idea perform and get paid. Once you get your guys you should pay the guys who deserve it by being elite. 

But if they are not elite, see Harris, mo wilk, etc...let them walk. Don't pay for average. Eventually if you get lucky in the draft you have too many guys and then guys like our new linebacker go to FA and teams that suck in drafting over pay for them.

I'm good with us paying for elite talent , Thai mean Bell, I'm good with us singing money for the above Ave play on def, because the guy instantly changed culure on def and can bring some needed attitude. Sure not quote unqoute impact player but so much better than anything we have had in a long time. My point is we suck at drafting and our part now is to pay for players.

BUT now we have QB, he will get paid. We have to hit on some draft picks. We have to keep guys like Leo to see if they can live up to the pick or at least get us some draft capital for trade or other wise. Makes no sense to trade for a secknd. Imo. I could be wrong but we need to hold on to him for just a little while longer.

It's all hope and rainbows right now as far as this team. I am hoping we fixed our coaching staff and I hope that will get some return on players that we have on the roster - like with Rex - remember that scrub team? He took added Bart and made them contenders with FA attitude and coaching them up. Let's see how these guys who have had crap coaches for the last few seasons play with an adult coaching.

I'm all for cutting bait and not paying if they don't deserve it - measured specifically by if they are above Ave or elite and by level of impact the position has. I was completely fine with not paying for elite kicker or punt returner. That is position you can have any one play and get above Ave play from. Not position like leo- no we need talented guys there.

Anyway this is way to long of a response you get the idea 

good points.  so many are trying to put the cart in front of the horse. leo is going to play at least as well as he has the past few seasons.   at season's end the jets will try to re-sign and he will probably end up walking.  the jets will get a compensatory pick which will be at least in the third round.  and if they do re-sign him, as long as it's not crazy money, so what.

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Just now, rangerous said:

good points.  so many are trying to put the cart in front of the horse. leo is going to play at least as well as he has the past few seasons.   at season's end the jets will try to re-sign and he will probably end up walking.  the jets will get a compensatory pick which will be at least in the third round.  and if they do re-sign him, as long as it's not crazy money, so what.

They likely won't get a comp pick because they will be active next year in FA but if Williams puts him in a position to shine and we have to pay him to be one of our rocks on defense? 

We still have a TON of cash.  And he's not an a$$hole--actually looks like a guy you want to root for.  

But yeah, let's dump a good player because we're guaranteed to get a good player with that second round pick we get in a trade.

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6 minutes ago, Jet Life said:

Maybe that is harsh. He is a good player, but would you give him a 90M contract? If the answer is no, OPs suggestion isnt crazy. Its hardly a crazy suggestion to trade a player in the last year of his deal and replace them cheaper. It happens often.

We might be trading away a player, who could turn into the player, that we had hoped for when we drafted him. A huge upgrade in defensive coordinator, and hopefully a big upgrade on the defense with an impact rusher. He's only 25, and he still will be when the season's over

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4 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

It's been reported he wants $16-$18 million per year.

Well, it hasn't been reported anywhere but somebody said it on one of the internets so it must be true.

Lol right.  Look at what top players at his position make and then pull that number out of your add as good asking price.

Also, complaints that if he plays well in Williams D, the one everyone is screaming will be better than the "morons" defense, he shouldn't be paid either. Perfect logic

I absolutely love internet reports that come without a shed is fact attached to them

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5 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

It's been reported he wants $16-$18 million per year.

Well, it hasn't been reported anywhere but somebody said it on one of the internets so it must be true.

The number is based on the market. Look at the deal Trey Flowers got. $17 million per. $16-$18 million is right on target.

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

Lol right.  Look at what top players at his position make and then pull that number out of your add as good asking price.

I absolutely love internet reports that come without a shed is fact attached to them

If the fear is, every player you sign to a big contract becomes Wilk 2.0, then NEVER sign any player long term.

What in Leo's history gives you ANY fear that he's going to become a dog once he gets his big money?

Wilk was a dog long before he got his money.

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5 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

If the fear is, every player you sign to a big contract becomes Wilk 2.0, then NEVER sign any player long term.

What in Leo's history gives you ANY fear that he's going to become a dog once he gets his big money?

Wilk was a dog long before he got his money.

The coming season with Williams as DC should show if Leo is worth his pay grade.. I remember when Mike Westoff was on SNY he said he talked to Leo and they both agreed he wasn't be used to the best of his abilities.. Hell Bowles and Rogers had Sheldon playing LB'er..LOL

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28 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You serious? 

yes

If Sam Darnold is the franchise savior he doesn't need high draft picks at every position around him 

there's no pick they can make at 3 for the offense that will impact the team more than any of the top 4 defenders 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

yes

If Sam Darnold is the franchise savior he doesn't need high draft picks at every position around him 

there's no pick they can make at 3 for the offense that will impact the team more than any of the top 4 defenders 

Yeah, if Darnold makes the 2nd year jump that many good QBs tend to make, then the offense will be solid at worst. If not, then they can still suck quite a bit. 

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yes

If Sam Darnold is the franchise savior he doesn't need high draft picks at every position around him 

there's no pick they can make at 3 for the offense that will impact the team more than any of the top 4 defenders 

in all the years of the jets drafting defensive players, the only 2 that really impacted games were revis and abraham.  other guys, from ellis to wilkerson to harris to adams, are good players but rarely difference makers.  

what are the odds that one of these DTs is going to be a real difference maker, or someone who will be routinely blocked by NE's interior OL?  

as far as true impact players go, i believe Q/Oliver/Allen are similar, and more like Ellis than Abraham.

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20 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

If the fear is, every player you sign to a big contract becomes Wilk 2.0, then NEVER sign any player long term.

What in Leo's history gives you ANY fear that he's going to become a dog once he gets his big money?

Wilk was a dog long before he got his money.

Totally agree, it's why Wilk fell in the draft.  He earned the money and then blew it.  I don't see the similarities with Leo. 

I can come up with players who earned their deals and then once paid their play fell.  And more that didn't.

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12 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

The coming season with Williams as DC should show if Leo is worth his pay grade.. I remember when Mike Westoff was on SNY he said he talked to Leo and they both agreed he wasn't be used to the best of his abilities.. Hell Bowles and Rogers had Sheldon playing LB'er..LOL

Yeah but why wait to figure out if Leo is actually an All Pro type player with a great defensive coordinator when we can get a second round pick who is guaranteed to be a solid player for him right now?!?

That's how it works, right?

Geezuz Jet fans.  

 

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3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

In all the years of the jets drafting defensive players, the only 2 that really impacted games were revis and abraham.  other guys, from ellis to wilkerson to harris to adams, are good players but rarely difference makers.   

Adams doesn't add to the defense?  You think anyone will effect a bad team. 

Ellis didn't? Harris, a low pick?  Mo until he dogged it.  Shadetree? Aaron Glenn?  Klecko? Gas? Lyons?

Should we also bring up all the offensive draft picks that added nothing?

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I'm not sure Leo is worth a big contract, he's worth a starter's deal but not maybe an impact player deal.  Williams will look at the film and try to figure out if he can get more out of him. He was often double teamed last year and that obviously  cut down on his numbers. I'd keep him over a 2nd rounder because he should contribute in 2019 and the team wants to make the playoffs now. 

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

yes

If Sam Darnold is the franchise savior he doesn't need high draft picks at every position around him 

there's no pick they can make at 3 for the offense that will impact the team more than any of the top 4 defenders 

So you'd rather put faith in Darnold being a "savior" instead of just building and investing in the offense just in case he is probably not elite but just above average?

Lol. That's how teams are built alright.

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

yes

If Sam Darnold is the franchise savior he doesn't need high draft picks at every position around him 

there's no pick they can make at 3 for the offense that will impact the team more than any of the top 4 defenders 

The only offensive player that is even worth a top 5 pick is DK Metcalf

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

So you'd rather put faith in Darnold being a "savior" instead of just building and investing in the offense just in case he is probably not elite but just above average?

Lol. That's how teams are built alright.

If you want to trade down fine but if you want offense draft Metcalf

 

None of these OL prospects are great, or even good

 

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18 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

If you want to trade down fine but if you want offense draft Metcalf

 

None of these OL prospects are great, or even good

 

Metcalf is a boom or bust prospect that should be a 2nd round pick. I'd rather take Hockenson and get a legit passing threat and the best blocking TE in the draft if im not going Oline.

Ill take your position on Olinemen with a grain of salt as well. The Jets had some of the worst Oline talent and you were adamant about how they were average....atleast. 

I'd rather you stick to speaking about Q. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Metcalf is a boom or bust prospect that should be a 2nd round pick. I'd rather take Hockenson and get a legit passing threat and the best blocking TE in the draft if im not going Oline.

Ill take your position on Olinemen with a grain of salt as well. The Jets had some of the worst Oline talent and you were adamant about how they were average....atleast. 

I'd rather you stick speaking about Q. 

 

An article just came out ranking the Jets OL as 14th overall and there was a thread about it so I’m sorry

Jonah is a second round pick quality player. He’s not as good as Cam Robinson was coming out who himself was a 2nd

 

Suddenly everyone loves Jawaan Taylor after its been radio silence on him for months and he probably is a Right Tackle in the nfl

 

Yes, Metcalf has some risk all players do except QW but if you want offense and to give Sam potentially a very good to elite WR Metcalf is the guy you draft in a trade down

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18 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

An article just came out ranking the Jets OL as 14th overall and there was a thread about it so I’m sorry

Jonah is a second round pick quality player. He’s not as good as Cam Robinson was coming out who himself was a 2nd

 

Suddenly everyone loves Jawaan Taylor after its been radio silence on him for months and he probably is a Right Tackle in the nfl

 

Yes, Metcalf has some risk all players do except QW but if you want offense and to give Sam potentially a very good to elite WR Metcalf is the guy you draft in a trade down

An article that "just came out" grading the oline 14th, yet we dont even have a Center. Im sorry for the folks who took that article seriously. 

You're making conclusions on rookies, that's the problem right there.

I dont care about Taylor. My guy has been Andre Dillard since last year and Bradbury for the last couple months. Along with TE  Hockenson

Now Q Williams is a risk-free player? Lol

Based on what? Your opinion? 

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3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

If you want to trade down fine but if you want offense draft Metcalf

 

None of these OL prospects are great, or even good

 

I'm personally afraid that Metcalf is a bust waiting to happen. Great speed/athleticism, but not enough actual production on the field for my tastes. 

The WR I would be interested in the Jets drafting is AJ Brown. 

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2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I'm personally afraid that Metcalf is a bust waiting to happen. Great speed/athleticism, but not enough actual production on the field for my tastes. 

The WR I would be interested in the Jets drafting is AJ Brown. 

Metcalf’s lack of production a lot of it was on his qb who was a one read scrub 

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10 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Metcalf’s lack of production a lot of it was on his qb who was a one read scrub 

Yea, true but I just worry. 

I remember thinking Stephen Hill was a physical specimen and we all know how that worked out. He could be good, but I'm skeptical. 

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Just now, slimjasi said:

Yea, true but I just worry. 

I remember thinking Stephen Hill was a physical specimen and we all know how that worked out. He could be good, but I'm skeptical. 

WR is the trickiest position to evaluate by far.  Peter Warrick was a monster in college who had excellent production and was total garbage in the nfl.  

 

I think Metcalf does certain things really well(some of which his college coach inexplicably underutilized) and they translate in the pros

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26 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

WR is the trickiest position to evaluate by far.  Peter Warrick was a monster in college who had excellent production and was total garbage in the nfl.  

 

I think Metcalf does certain things really well(some of which his college coach inexplicably underutilized) and they translate in the pros

My worry with Metcalf is not about being a beast but being agile, that big lug wont get open in the NFL...

 

well that is what the haters say. i have no idea how to evaluate nor do i have the inclination. But I hope some one that watches collge ball can opine and let us know what the deal with this guy is. We can't afford a bust in the first round. We need a guy that will start on this team and ideally make an impact...Pass rusher please.

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31 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

WR is the trickiest position to evaluate by far.  Peter Warrick was a monster in college who had excellent production and was total garbage in the nfl.  

 

I think Metcalf does certain things really well(some of which his college coach inexplicably underutilized) and they translate in the pros

What do you think he does well?

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19 hours ago, Jet Life said:

Maybe that is harsh. He is a good player, but would you give him a 90M contract? If the answer is no, OPs suggestion isnt crazy. Its hardly a crazy suggestion to trade a player in the last year of his deal and replace them cheaper. It happens often.

And if Leo is so great we can get a 2nd for him then resign him next offseason 

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Lets trade our best defensive lineman for a draft pick our GM will likely draft a JAG with. The only trade that should be going down is adding Clark from Seattle or gauging interest on a trade down. Other than that we should be researching late round OL,WR pospects to snag with our picks in the 3rd round. 

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