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Stick and Pick


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No problem with this.   IF there is little interest from other teams in moving up and the Jets get lowball offers then Stick n' Pick.  I'm with you (and you need to Trademark that).  I don't want to see the Jets trade down just for the sake of trading down.  My preference would be for Allen over the other two but I'd have no problem if it's Bosa or Q. Williams.  We need nasty pass rushers close to the LOS, not blitzing from the secondary and taking 4 seconds to get to the QB.

 

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12 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Seriously, unless someone like the Giants wants to give us #6 and #17 to move up, just stay pat and take Bosa/Allen/Williams.

I feel like way too many people are in favor of passing on one of the few true blue-chip prospects in this draft all because they want to pick up a 2nd rounder and spend it on a mediocre center prospect.

If they can make the proposed deal with the Giants, then hell yeah, trade down. Hell, say f*ck defense in the first round completely at that point and take a combo of Jonah Williams and Garrett Bradbury.

Otherwise, stay where you are and get an impact defender with all-pro potential. This draft is pretty deep all along the OL. You can very realistically land starting caliber OL in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

Grab Bosa or Allen at #3 then come back in the 3rd and double dip on OL with a McGovern/Scharping combo or something.

Don’t trade down just for the sake of trading down. If some team identifies a guy like Haskins as their potential franchise QB for the next decade, then make them pay through their f*cking noses to obtain him. Not trade down for lesser value just because you’re obsessed with gathering more picks. 

I'm not sure how I feel anymore.  My initial thought was to take Bosa if he was there, or else trade down.  But I have heard SO many people talking about how Mac does well with his first round / top 10 picks, but then screws the pooch thereafter.  "so what if we gave up three second rounders for Darnold - Mac will screw up 2nd round pick anyway!" kind of mentality.  It's sad to say, but it may be better taking an Allen or Williams at 3, rather than trading back and taking our chances on Mac taking another awful backup QB in the 2nd round!!

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4 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

To me trading is about staying in the 10-15 range, getting a 2nd round pick and a future first. That first next year is a deal breaker, if we don't get it I don't wanna move. 

There's no one in the draft that is worth what you want to get in return.

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12 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

No problem with this.   IF there is little interest from other teams in moving up and the Jets get lowball offers then Stick n' Pick.  I'm with you (and you need to Trademark that).  I don't want to see the Jets trade down just for the sake of trading down.  My preference would be for Allen over the other two but I'd have no problem if it's Bosa or Q. Williams.  We need nasty pass rushers close to the LOS, not blitzing from the secondary and taking 4 seconds to get to the QB.

 

That reminds me of Joe Klecko  who had a bar in Rockville center in the 80's and we were busting his chops about his 40 time compared to Gastineau.. He said if the QB was 40 yds behind the line I guess I wouldn't  get any sacks.. :-k

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I personally think anyone's  position that we must trade back or that we must stand pat is foolish. The correct approach is:

1- If we get a great offer to trade back where we can still get a very good player in the 6-15 range and accumulate much needed draft capital, then do it. 

2- If we do not get a great offer to trade back, then the smart move is to stand pat and take the best player at 3. 

A good GM is flexible and open to both options depending on the players available and the offers he gets. I can already predict that if we don't trade back there will be fools in this forum bashing Macc without knowing what offers he had on the table. 

 

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32 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

It all comes down to your definition of a blue chip prospect.

I don;t see it at all this year.  Bosa, Williams, Allen all have questions. 

2

Bosa and Williams are Blue chippers. Allen is a purple half way between red and blue 

Ed Oliver is the other Blue chip prospect 

 

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Good thread. I agree completely. Assuming we aren't drafting a QB, there's no way I'm disappointed with the player we pick up. Oliver included. Offense is going to be improved compared to last year, if we dont draft a single offensive player. I want a top prospect in (what is hopefully) our last chance to pick this high with mighty Sam leading the way 

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35 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I personally think anyone's  position that we must trade back or that we must stand pat is foolish. The correct approach is:

1- If we get a great offer to trade back where we can still get a very good player in the 6-15 range and accumulate much needed draft capital, then do it. 

2- If we do not get a great offer to trade back, then the smart move is to stand pat and take the best player at 3. 

A good GM is flexible and open to both options depending on the players available and the offers he gets. I can already predict that if we don't trade back there will be fools in this forum bashing Macc without knowing what offers he had on the table. 

 

with you on the "not set in stone yet" ... i'm sure many of us feel that way without bothering to say it

Myself I go back to the 6-15 range for a great offer ... I also do so for a good offer ... I also do so for a marginal offer. 

JMO

 

 

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51 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If this is your draft, what’s the Jets record next year? 

1. Quinnen Williams 

3a. Eighth best CB

3b. Sixth best WR

4. IOL

5/6/7 Whatever 

If Winters and Shell stay healthy, Cannon takes a step forward, and Herndon only gets 2 games, 11-5.?

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15 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

a 2nd round pick and a 2020 1st for #3?

All it takes is one team to fall in love with a player. I don't think it's too far fetched.

Name that player(s)?

It's not that I'm doubting you, it's just that with the rookie salary cap, picks are way more valuable than they used to be and I don't see anyone that a team would be infatuated with.

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7 minutes ago, peebag said:

Name that player(s)?

It's not that I'm doubting you, it's just that with the rookie salary cap, picks are way more valuable than they used to be and I don't see anyone that a team would be infatuated with.

I have no idea who teams are infatuated with me. Hoping Cards don't take Murray and he falls to 3. Then we should be in business. But who the hell knows at this point.

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

It all comes down to your definition of a blue chip prospect.

I don;t see it at all this year.  Bosa, Williams, Allen all have questions.

I think this is a weak draft at the top.  The QBs are nothing special, the D players are not lead pipe cinches.

There is some depth.  This is for sure the draft to trade down.  I don't think we will be able to and will end up with one of the players you are talking about but I would love to trade down.

darnold, marino, ellway, brady, etc all had question marks.  it comes with the territory.  and don't forget with so many same types of players available it's hard to identify the real big fish.  i have no idea who the jets will take or even position.  imo bosa isn't going to go top 5.  this isn't based on anything but my perception that this guy is being overhyped.  i only hope the jets don't blow the third pick on some pedestrian player or trade back because they have some question marks on a guy who should be an impact player.

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Bosa and Williams are Blue chippers. Allen is a purple half way between red and blue 

Ed Oliver is the other Blue chip prospect 

 

I think Allen and Oliver are better than the other two for me.

Williams for a blue chipper has had one year of production  He also was totally neutralized in the biggest game of the year.

Bosa has had injury issues, seems like a bit of a flake.

These guys are not Aaron donald and von miller/Garrett.

Stick some of these guys in last years draft, where do they go?

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23 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I think Allen and Oliver are better than the other two for me.

Williams for a blue chipper has had one year of production  He also was totally neutralized in the biggest game of the year.

Bosa has had injury issues, seems like a bit of a flake.

These guys are not Aaron donald and von miller/Garrett.

Stick some of these guys in last years draft, where do they go?

Q Williams had a good national championship game. It was the other williams jonah who got beaten like he stole something (doesn't stop half the board from wanting him) 

The real scouting buzz on Williams is his violent hand placement. He gets off of blocks. Yes I think he (and Oliver) can get to Brady in year 1 and make a difference. 

Bosa i get the injury concerns but at 3 it's worth the risk. if he's injury free maybe he goes 1 etc.  

Aaron Donald wasn't considered a blue chip player coming out, fwiw  i think he went like 13th 

my board is Williams/Oliver/Bosa in any order (whoever falls to 3)

Josh Allen was a 2 star prep he's a very good athlete not a great one (like Myles Garrett) therefore not quite a blue chip on my board. Real good tho, just in general wondering if any edge gets to a Brady type QB in 2.5 seconds.  Von Miller ran a 4.4 that's blue chip 

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10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Q Williams had a good national championship game. It was the other williams jonah who got beaten like he stole something (doesn't stop half the board from wanting him) 

The real scouting buzz on Williams is his violent hand placement. He gets off of blocks. Yes I think he (and Oliver) can get to Brady in year 1 and make a difference. 

Bosa i get the injury concerns but at 3 it's worth the risk. if he's injury free maybe he goes 1 etc.  

Aaron Donald wasn't considered a blue chip player coming out, fwiw  i think he went like 13th 

my board is Williams/Oliver/Bosa in any order (whoever falls to 3)

Josh Allen was a 2 star prep he's a very good athlete not a great one (like Myles Garrett) therefore not quite a blue chip on my board. Real good tho, just in general wondering if any edge gets to a Brady type QB in 2.5 seconds.  Von Miller ran a 4.4 that's blue chip 

4 tackles zero sacks and your team got beat 44-16.  Hate to see what the score would have been if he had a bad game.  the impact of a DT, like leo williams and this guy is going to be the same, 'he had a great game!' we got hammered.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

4 tackles zero sacks and your team got beat 44-16.  Hate to see what the score would have been if he had a bad game.  the impact of a DT, like leo williams and this guy is going to be the same, 'he had a great game!' we got hammered.

 

 

I'm not a fan of QW.  I'd take Oliver over him all day, any day.  And while I see your concern about drafting another DT, Leo's best year came when Sheldon and Mo were still here.  I see merit in pairing him with an explosive player, as depressing as drafting another DT would be.  

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59 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I think Allen and Oliver are better than the other two for me.

Williams for a blue chipper has had one year of production  He also was totally neutralized in the biggest game of the year.

Bosa has had injury issues, seems like a bit of a flake.

These guys are not Aaron donald and von miller/Garrett.

Stick some of these guys in last years draft, where do they go?

Kind of agree here but for me I think the drop off from Bosa(who looks the part but scares me off a bit with the injuries) and Allen to Montez and Brian Burns is not that great, if anything I think there’s a strong argument that one of those two will be the premier edge to come out of the first round and not Bosa or Allen. I Would be perfectly happy sliding back to no worse than 8-10 and still getting an elite edge prospect.

agree about Oliver. Quality prospect

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3 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Seriously, unless someone like the Giants wants to give us #6 and #17 to move up, just stay pat and take Bosa/Allen/Williams.

I feel like way too many people are in favor of passing on one of the few true blue-chip prospects in this draft all because they want to pick up a 2nd rounder and spend it on a mediocre center prospect.

If they can make the proposed deal with the Giants, then hell yeah, trade down. Hell, say f*ck defense in the first round completely at that point and take a combo of Jonah Williams and Garrett Bradbury.

Otherwise, stay where you are and get an impact defender with all-pro potential. This draft is pretty deep all along the OL. You can very realistically land starting caliber OL in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

Grab Bosa or Allen at #3 then come back in the 3rd and double dip on OL with a McGovern/Scharping combo or something.

Don’t trade down just for the sake of trading down. If some team identifies a guy like Haskins as their potential franchise QB for the next decade, then make them pay through their f*cking noses to obtain him. Not trade down for lesser value just because you’re obsessed with gathering more picks. 

NO. Do not agree with this at all. All three have serious question marks, OL is a FAR greater need, and the Jets need more picks in general. Trade down. Period.

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If this is your draft, what’s the Jets record next year? 

1. Quinnen Williams 

3a. Eighth best CB

3b. Sixth best WR

4. IOL

5/6/7 Whatever 

The reality is, nobody they draft this year is impacting the W column significantly. 

Only 1 player can truly impact the W column this year and his name is Sam Darnold. 

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

I'm not a fan of QW.  I'd take Oliver over him all day, any day.  And while I see your concern about drafting another DT, Leo's best year came when Sheldon and Mo were still here.  I see merit in pairing him with an explosive player, as depressing as drafting another DT would be.  

Oliver has become my favorite guy to take if the Jets don't move back. I get the DT aversion, but I think he and Williams could be a force, and also give the Jets some flexibility with Williams contract-wise in 2020 if he's less than a force. 

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3 hours ago, Legend Killa7 said:

I'm not sure how I feel anymore.  My initial thought was to take Bosa if he was there, or else trade down.  But I have heard SO many people talking about how Mac does well with his first round / top 10 picks, but then screws the pooch thereafter.  "so what if we gave up three second rounders for Darnold - Mac will screw up 2nd round pick anyway!" kind of mentality.  It's sad to say, but it may be better taking an Allen or Williams at 3, rather than trading back and taking our chances on Mac taking another awful backup QB in the 2nd round!!

Mac has made 1 good selection after rnd 1 pick 6 and it’s herndon other than that? Jag city. I’d be very very cautious about trading out of the top 10. NYG 6,17 or hopefully #10 and Von Miller for #3 other than that idk if Mac has the drafting abilities to make up for passing on the blue chip prospects 

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

Oliver has become my favorite guy to take if the Jets don't move back. I get the DT aversion, but I think he and Williams could be a force, and also give the Jets some flexibility with Williams contract-wise in 2020 if he's less than a force. 

Oh it's depressing to think about taking another DT at #3 but I think he's worth it and there is a reason these guys go early and often, they're hard to find.

I'm excited to see Leo under Williams.  I think he gets a little unfair heat around here and pairing him with someone like Oliver, could be exactly what he needs to breakout under hopefully a coach that knows how to get the most out of his D.

Ideal situation if they do take Oliver, is that Leo proves his worth and we can extend him and have a dynamic duo in the trenches.  

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4 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

To me trading is about staying in the 10-15 range, getting a 2nd round pick and a future first. That first next year is a deal breaker, if we don't get it I don't wanna move. 

This is right, not because we are smarter but because it's a crap shoot. 

Once you have your franchise QB acquiring more picks in the top 15 is proven to be the smarter way to draft. 

One #3 pick has probably 60% chance to be a quality starter. 

I'd say two #15s are more likely to produce a star than one #3. Maybe 40% chance each. 

5 mid 2nd picks are likely to produce one high quality starter. Maybe 20%

Third round and beyond gets much lower odds. My choice would be to trade up from the 3rd round back.

Those late 1st and 2nd round misses will also fill depth and special teams needs. 

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3 hours ago, peebag said:

Name that player(s)?

It's not that I'm doubting you, it's just that with the rookie salary cap, picks are way more valuable than they used to be and I don't see anyone that a team would be infatuated with.

All of these people who argue against trading down obviously think the #3 pick is worth the #15, a 2nd round pick, and next year's 1st. 

It's all based upon them "knowing" that their pick at 3 is going to be a HOF player. 

Any GM that thinks he is smarter than the odds will do. 

The funny thing is that most of them have a different opinion on which player is the one to take. 

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The single worst position I remember the Jets being stuck in was when they were at #6 staring at Vernon Gholston.  We all had serious concerns and he looked like a bust risk.  Nobody wanted to trade up with the Jets and I think the Jets hated that spot, but after Gholston there was a clear drop-off in draft talent.  The Jets were boxed in and either had to hold their nose and take him (which they did) or reach for a player that would be taken too early.

This year will not be the same case.  The Jets are not in No Man's Land.  There will be options....some will just be decent options, some could be great options.  There WILL BE a player at #3 that is valued as a Top 5 player AND meets a need that the Jets have.  Or, there will be a player that is coveted by some other teams behind us.

If your preference is for an Edge rusher then your worst case might be that it goes 1. Bosa to AZ, 2. Allen to SF.  If that happens then Kyler Murray is still on the board and teams behind us begin salivating that he is now attainable.  If your preference above all else is to trade down then I think a draft where it goes 1. Murray to AZ, 2. Bosa to SF is your worst case scenario as those may be the two players that teams would be willing to trade up for the most.  But if that happens then the Jets, with one of their biggest needs at Edge rusher, are staring at Josh Allen.  Perfect value at a position of supreme need.  The thing that will be toughest for many of our fans is that those who are clamoring for OLine help don't have a good match between the Jets current draft position and Offensive Line value.  There's no OLineman worthy of a Top 5 pick IMO.  Those are the fans who need the trade down to come to fruition.  I think the best case for those guys would be Murray slipping to #3, a trade up by the Giants and the Jets getting picks 6, 17 to take Jawaan Taylor and an Edge guy or taking Montez Sweat and somebody like Garrett Bradbury.

But my bottom line is that we're kind of in a can't lose situation.  We won't be stuck drafting a player that doesn't match a need or isn't aligned with value like we had to do with Vernon Gholston.

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I've come around to the stick and pick. Because the only way that a trade down works out for us in terms of "value" is if we are blown away by an offer (2 firsts and a second) or if we manage to trade back and get the second wave defenders (Burns, Sweat, Simmons, Tillery). After them the plus- athlete w/ pass rushing talent diminishes to average athletes (WIlkins, Ferrell) or purely potential guys (Banogu, Winovich, Crosby).

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