Stick and Pick

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

I've come around to the stick and pick. Just because the only way that a trade down works out for us in terms of "value" is if we are blown away by an offer (2 firsts and a second) or if we manage to trade back and get the second wave defenders (Burns, Sweat, Simmons, Tillery). After them the plus- athlete, pass rushing talent diminishes to average athletes (WIlkins, Ferrell) or purely potential guys (Banogu, Winovich, Crosby).

Ferrell is obviously kind of a mystery. A silent process is always going to cause a slide as far as draft twitter is concerned, but that isn't reality. Winovich is underrated and my guess is that he's going to go earlier than expected and in front of some bigger names.

[MDL_JET]

37 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The single worst position I remember the Jets being stuck in was when they were at #6 staring at Vernon Gholston.  We all had serious concerns and he looked like a bust risk.  Nobody wanted to trade up with the Jets and I think the Jets hated that spot, but after Gholston there was a clear drop-off in draft talent.  The Jets were boxed in and either had to hold their nose and take him (which they did) or reach for a player that would be taken too early.

This is year will not be the same case.  The Jets are not in No Man's Land.  There will be options....some will just be decent options, some could be great options.  There WILL BE a player at #3 that is valued as a Top 5 player AND meets a need that the Jets have.  Or, there will be a player that is coveted by some other teams behind us.

If your preference is for an Edge rusher then your worst case might be that it goes 1. Bosa to AZ, 2. Allen to SF.  If that happens then Kyler Murray is still on the board and teams behind us begin salivating that he is now attainable.  If your preference above all else is to trade down then I think a draft where it goes 1. Murray to AZ, 2. Bosa to SF is your worst case scenario as those may be the two players that teams would be willing to trade up for the most.  But if that happens then the Jets, with one of their biggest needs at Edge rusher, are staring at Josh Allen.  Perfect value at a position of supreme need.  The thing that will be toughest for many of our fans is that those who are clamoring for OLine help don't have a good match between the Jets current draft position and Offensive Line value.  There's no OLineman worthy of a Top 5 pick IMO.  Those are the fans who need the trade down to come to fruition.  I think the best case for those guys would be Murray slipping to #3, a trade up by the Giants and the Jets getting picks 6, 17 to take Jawaan Taylor and an Edge guy or taking Montez Sweat and somebody like Garrett Bradbury.

But my bottom line is that we're kind of in a can't lose situation.  We won't be stuck drafting a player that doesn't match a need or isn't aligned with value like we had to do with Vernon Gholston.

The Jets have too many options and it's up to them to just pick the right player at this point. Which in itself, is a little scary. 

[kdels62]

34 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Ferrell is obviously kind of a mystery. A silent process is always going to cause a slide as far as draft twitter is concerned, but that isn't reality. Winovich is underrated and my guess is that he's going to go earlier than expected and in front of some bigger names.

Ferrell lacks athleticism to a degree that is alarming. He'd be a good prospect if he was a 3rd round guy making a late push into 2nd round chatter but he's a first round guy who gets less appealing the longer you look at him. I think Winovich goes before Gary. Winovich is super versatile and can be an edge or an off the ball and has Patriots written all over him. 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

I have no idea who teams are infatuated with me. Hoping Cards don't take Murray and he falls to 3. Then we should be in business. But who the hell knows at this point.

Seriously, who other than a team with a college gimmick offense would trade away worthwhile picks for him?  Just because one team, may, like him, really where does he fit? 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Ferrell lacks athleticism to a degree that is alarming. He'd be a good prospect if he was a 3rd round guy making a late push into 2nd round chatter but he's a first round guy who gets less appealing the longer you look at him. I think Winovich goes before Gary. Winovich is super versatile and can be an edge or an off the ball and has Patriots written all over him. 

Agreed on Winovich. The evidence as to Ferrell's athleticism is exactly the same as it was in early January when he was the #2 end on everybody's board.

[cant wait]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Agreed on Winovich. The evidence as to Ferrell's athleticism is exactly the same as it was in early January when he was the #2 end on everybody's board.

if you want a day 3 OLB that’s got some freaky measurables check out this guy:

 

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Agreed on Winovich. The evidence as to Ferrell's athleticism is exactly the same as it was in early January when he was the #2 end on everybody's board.

If the scouts and the pre-draft hype are in sync then Ferrell might fall deep into the teens and then he’s a real value. Drafting a 7-10 sack a year guy that can play every down isn’t a terrible fate. 

[Jetster]

This Ed Oliver guy is very intriguing & with Greg Williams here if he's the choice at #3 than we'll know Williams thinks this guy has too much upside to pass on. 

Jets are likely choosing between, Bosa, Q.Williams, J.Allen or Ed Oliver. 

When do you remember the Jets in that type of position in the draft? 

[Matt39]

On 4/17/2019 at 4:49 PM, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Agreed on Winovich. The evidence as to Ferrell's athleticism is exactly the same as it was in early January when he was the #2 end on everybody's board.

Take Chase third. Who cares. He’s going top 30.

sh*t I’d probably take Bush and Winovich before Williams or Allen at 3. 

[sirlancemehlot]

On 4/17/2019 at 10:41 AM, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I personally think anyone's  position that we must trade back or that we must stand pat is foolish. The correct approach is:

1- If we get a great offer to trade back where we can still get a very good player in the 6-15 range and accumulate much needed draft capital, then do it. 

2- If we do not get a great offer to trade back, then the smart move is to stand pat and take the best player at 3. 

A good GM is flexible and open to both options depending on the players available and the offers he gets. I can already predict that if we don't trade back there will be fools in this forum bashing Macc without knowing what offers he had on the table. 

 

This post is far too reasonable for this forum. Please rethink it and understand that if you aren't willing to choose one or the other you're "not a real jets fan" or something like that. 

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Take Chase third. Who cares. He’s going top 30.

When I first read this I was like oh hell no but then I remembered you saying we should have used the six we burned on Adams to draft TJ Watt and you were 100% right

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

When I first read this I was like oh hell no but then I remembered you saying we should have used the six we burned on Adams to draft TJ Watt and you were 100% right

I don’t know tbh. I think Allen and Williams are both better than Adams though.

Winovich plays hard and has a great 3 cone. Bush is going to be a good player too. 

Its going to be hard to be angry at whoever the Jets pick there. You were 100% right to be furious with the Adams pick with who was on the board, which won’t be the case this year unless they take someone monumentally dumb like a tackle to overcompensate for not taking oline.

[AL047]

I would prefer trading the pick for more picks a few teams have built there teams by trading draft picks. Look at the Patriots they have done it and are still doing it. This is a great way to build this team!!! 

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I don’t know tbh. I think Allen and Williams are both better than Adams though.

Winovich plays hard and has a great 3 cone. Bush is going to be a good player too. 

Its going to be hard to be angry at whoever the Jets pick there. You were 100% right to be furious at the Adams pick with who was on the board, which won’t be the case this year unless they take someone monumentally dumb like a tackle to overcompensate for not taking oline.

Mccagnan is on a roll with his first round picks, 2 in a row that are getting accolades.  I don’t love Adams as a playmaker but he’s getting a lot of love around the nfl.  If mccagnan doesn’t trade out it’s probably allen IMO, since he won’t admit that Leo is a failure so he won’t be drafting his replacement.  I think allen will be a very good pro.

[jgb]

Agree. The armchair GMs are always too clever by half. The draft is hard. I don’t trust Macc outside top of the first round 

[BettyBoop]

I don't think there is any player that teams would be willing to give up a ransom for.  There are some really wild notes in this thread.  People are still talking about Gholston (seriously?), Adams sucks (ridiculous!) and Leo is lazy (cognitive dissonance at its worst).  If Mac takes Q or Oliver and Greg Williams pairs them with Leo, Adams, Mosely and Maye, this defense will be excellent.  If Williams can get Trumaine to improve they will be even better.

I'm happy with Q or Oliver.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

I don’t know tbh. I think Allen and Williams are both better than Adams though.

Winovich plays hard and has a great 3 cone. Bush is going to be a good player too. 

Its going to be hard to be angry at whoever the Jets pick there. You were 100% right to be furious with the Adams pick with who was on the board, which won’t be the case this year unless they take someone monumentally dumb like a tackle to overcompensate for not taking oline.

It feels like both Allen and Q. Williams are going to be 7-10 sacks per year guys which is meh, but I don’t think Maccagnan can get away with drafting yet another one of those at DT, so Allen is a little safer, I’d guess? The other thing is, it’s really, really hard to see Q. Williams go somewhere else and be JJ Watt, so there’s minimal risk of getting burned too hard by passing on him. Allen at least gives you value at a different spot other than the one they’ve already dumped a billion dollars into to

[WayneChrebet80]

By sticking at three that pretty much guarantees Jonathan Harrison is the starting center 

 

[CurtMart]

On 4/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, NYJetsDaddy said:

John Abraham was drafted 13th overall. Tom Brady was drafted 199th overall. There is talent throughout the draft. Give me more lottery tickets. Trade back, acquire more tickets. 

Ghost was drafted 6th overall. Pryor was drafted 9th overall. These two sh*tbags were still supposed to be wreaking havoc in the NFL. Imagine this D if those two plus Lee, Mo n Sheldumb lived up to their potential. Either great trade baits or turn the team into the 85 Bears. Those aren’t just any random players. Those are high first rounders (besides lazy Mo).

Besides Robby, Macc hasn’t found a single player worthy of a starting role...on this team. On this Jets teams that has lost 34 games in 3 years. 

Macc cant draft. Unless he has a top 6 pick and has the drafts’ assumed best player slip to him. 

[NYJetsDaddy]

On 4/18/2019 at 10:22 PM, CurtMart said:

Ghost was drafted 6th overall. Pryor was drafted 9th overall. These two sh*tbags were still supposed to be wreaking havoc in the NFL. Imagine this D if those two plus Lee, Mo n Sheldumb lived up to their potential. Either great trade baits or turn the team into the 85 Bears. Those aren’t just any random players. Those are high first rounders (besides lazy Mo).

Besides Robby, Macc hasn’t found a single player worthy of a starting role...on this team. On this Jets teams that has lost 34 games in 3 years. 

Macc cant draft. Unless he has a top 6 pick and has the drafts’ assumed best player slip to him. 

Pryor was not drafted 9th overall.

[Dinamite]

On 4/18/2019 at 10:22 PM, CurtMart said:

Ghost was drafted 6th overall. Pryor was drafted 9th overall. These two sh*tbags were still supposed to be wreaking havoc in the NFL. Imagine this D if those two plus Lee, Mo n Sheldumb lived up to their potential. Either great trade baits or turn the team into the 85 Bears. Those aren’t just any random players. Those are high first rounders (besides lazy Mo).

Besides Robby, Macc hasn’t found a single player worthy of a starting role...on this team. On this Jets teams that has lost 34 games in 3 years. 

Macc cant draft. Unless he has a top 6 pick and has the drafts’ assumed best player slip to him. 

I think you mean Dee Milliner was drafted 9th and Calvin 19th.   But yes, shame that the defense still needs help after all those resources.

[jetstream23]

On 4/17/2019 at 8:12 AM, jetstream23 said:

No problem with this.   IF there is little interest from other teams in moving up and the Jets get lowball offers then Stick n' Pick.  I'm with you (and you need to Trademark that).  I don't want to see the Jets trade down just for the sake of trading down.  My preference would be for Allen over the other two but I'd have no problem if it's Bosa or Q. Williams.  We need nasty pass rushers close to the LOS, not blitzing from the secondary and taking 4 seconds to get to the QB.

 

I haven't changed my opinion since I wrote this.  It wasn't my ideal scenario but I have no problem with QW, and I'm glad we didn't trade away the #3 at a discount.

[#27TheDominator]

On 4/18/2019 at 10:22 PM, CurtMart said:

Ghost was drafted 6th overall. Pryor was drafted 9th overall. These two sh*tbags were still supposed to be wreaking havoc in the NFL. Imagine this D if those two plus Lee, Mo n Sheldumb lived up to their potential. Either great trade baits or turn the team into the 85 Bears. Those aren’t just any random players. Those are high first rounders (besides lazy Mo).

Besides Robby, Macc hasn’t found a single player worthy of a starting role...on this team. On this Jets teams that has lost 34 games in 3 years. 

Macc cant draft. Unless he has a top 6 pick and has the drafts’ assumed best player slip to him. 

Gholston was drafted 11 years ago.  Get over it.  The vast majority of that draft class is retired.  Even if he weren't retired, he'd be at least 7 years removed from his rookie contract and if he didn't suck he'd cost a ******* fortune.  Same goes for Pryor.  His rookie deal expired in 2017 and the 2018 option year would have cost a pretty penny.  Are the Giants whining about selecting Landon Collins.   Milliner came out with Sheldon and I suppose that is who you mean was selected 9th.  His rookie deal would have expired the year before.  Wilkerson's contract shouldn't require explanation.  I guess you can complain about the dead money, but c'mon.  Beyond 5 years they aren't your draft picks, they are your free agent signings. 

[NYJetsDaddy]

I guess people were missing my view. I wasn't suggesting that the Jets haven't had busts (of course they have). My point was that more draft picks is better because you can find premium talent throughout the draft.