Greg Gabriel: The hot name to the Jets at #3 - Ed Oliver

[kdels62]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

IIRC, Oliver was sitting out a few games and his coaches thought he was protecting his draft stock so when one of them saw Oliver wearing a Houston jacket on the sideline, the told him to take it off because those are only for players on the team or some sh*t 

That happened but apparently Oliver had a pre-draft visit with the Eagles and it was disastrous. Like abruptly over and Oliver is no longer on the Eagles draft board bad.

[RobR]

13 minutes ago, RSJ said:

 

I like it - but I wouldnt trade Leo. I think he would be a good DE in a 4-3. Lee athletically would be good - but just seems so soft and not mentally in the game either.


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Leo would be redundant in that scenario. He's not a 4-3 end....way too big and slow for that position.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

Thanks

The other thing I've seen is that 'uncertainty' about his position had him pushed down boards. Which is stupid mostly because it doesn't logically follow. I don't see any real confusion anyway. He's a 3-technique. Being able to attack the guard's outside shoulder, corner, and close is both way rarer and strictly better than doing an outside rush. The former because obviously there aren't a whole lot of guys with both the agility to work a gap to approximate an edge rush without the space that the actual edge affords and the size and strength to hold up as a tackle. The latter because you're closer to the quarterback duh.

[RSJ]

Leo would be redundant in that scenario. He's not a 4-3 end....way too big and slow for that position.

You are probably right. You do need a bigger DE over RT though.


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[BCJet]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

Instead of basing your opinion on someone elses opinion just pop in the tape. There is plenty of it out there and the conclusions those writers came to couldn't be further from the truth.

I did watch, and I'm not sure how all these guys I listed are less qualified then you and me, but when I watched (and I watched Williams first and Oliver second) was a player in Q who started in a stance back on his heels, read the center or guard and was still able to use his quickness to make a play or create chaos.  With Oliver I saw similar domination, but every single play he simply used his quickness to go straight forward, thats it.  I have no idea which style will translate more in the pros but it seems to be Q had a better feel for the position to go along with a 305lb frame to be a dominant DT.  Oliver, in my opinion will need to be put in favorable situations as he is such a hybrid.  

[RSJ]

That happened but apparently Oliver had a pre-draft visit with the Eagles and it was disastrous. Like abruptly over and Oliver is no longer on the Eagles draft board bad.

I think the same thing happened when Guice visited the Eagles last year? They reportedly made him feel like shot over his love for video games? Seems like 99% of this generation would walk out if you criticized their gaming.


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[Miss Lonelyhearts]

10 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

That happened but apparently Oliver had a pre-draft visit with the Eagles and it was disastrous. Like abruptly over and Oliver is no longer on the Eagles draft board bad.

If I was Zion and the team picking 25th asked me in for a visit I would spend the entire time just wandering the facility and randomly posterizing anybody i passed in the hallway.

[Matt39]

Just now, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

If I was Zion and the team picking 25th asked me in for a visit I would spend the entire time just wandering the facility and randomly posterizing anybody i passed in the hallway.

Yeah Oliver isnt Zion

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

That happened but apparently Oliver had a pre-draft visit with the Eagles and it was disastrous. Like abruptly over and Oliver is no longer on the Eagles draft board bad.

This is typical of most of my social interactions so count me as #TeamOliver

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Yeah Oliver isnt Zion

Still my bandwagon mother****ers because I say he is. And the analogy stands anyway.

[cant wait]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Yeah Oliver isnt Zion

nobody is zion

[Matt39]

Just now, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Still my bandwagon mother****ers because I say he is. And the analogy stands anyway.

Sure but if he's bombing interviews that aint good. The sideline tantrum is a thing. 

[NoBowles]

10 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

The other thing I've seen is that 'uncertainty' about his position had him pushed down boards. Which is stupid mostly because it doesn't logically follow. I don't see any real confusion anyway. He's a 3-technique. Being able to attack the guard's outside shoulder, corner, and close is both way rarer and strictly better than doing an outside rush. The former because obviously there aren't a whole lot of guys with both the agility to work a gap to approximate an edge rush without the space that the actual edge affords and the size and strength to hold up as a tackle. The latter because you're closer to the quarterback duh.

Thanks, and agree

[RobR]

5 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I did watch, and I'm not sure how all these guys I listed are less qualified then you and me, but when I watched (and I watched Williams first and Oliver second) was a player in Q who started in a stance back on his heels, read the center or guard and was still able to use his quickness to make a play or create chaos.  With Oliver I saw similar domination, but every single play he simply used his quickness to go straight forward, thats it.  I have no idea which style will translate more in the pros but it seems to be Q had a better feel for the position to go along with a 305lb frame to be a dominant DT.  Oliver, in my opinion will need to be put in favorable situations as he is such a hybrid.  

Being dominant is all about that first step because they engage the OLineman before they have a chance for a countermove . The fact that see you QW starting off on his heels tells me all I need too know about who will be more dominant at the next level.

For all of the crap I give towards QW, I still think he'll be a good pro. I just don't see the type of player that could win a few DPOY and eventually that elusive gold jacket.

[RSJ]

Sure but if he's bombing interviews that aint good. The sideline tantrum is a thing. 

Yeah in all seriousness you have to hope the Jets do their own homework on it. Could be a smokescreen intended to have him drop too.


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[CanadienJetsFan]

At pick #3, Oliver is a reach especially if Williams or Bosa are sitting there for the taking. 

At 10(Denver’s pick) he’s a steal. Trade down!

[cant wait]

17 minutes ago, RobR said:

Leo would be redundant in that scenario. He's not a 4-3 end....way too big and slow for that position.

trade leo for a 2nd round pick & flip for frank clark

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Sure but if he's bombing interviews that aint good. The sideline tantrum is a thing. 

I have no context for what could possibly be meant by his 'bombing' or being 'bad' in one interview. I know what I've read of his reputation generally and of the sh*t teams are wont to pull. And the conversation has gone from zero to this in literally an hour. Give me a break.

[BroadwayRay]

19 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

That happened but apparently Oliver had a pre-draft visit with the Eagles and it was disastrous. Like abruptly over and Oliver is no longer on the Eagles draft board bad.

Maybe they asked him if they could take his jacket. 

[RobR]

Just now, cant wait said:

trade leo for a 2nd round pick & flip for frank clark

I would do that in a heartbeat but I can't see Leo returning a second rounder. This is a notoriously strong draft for players like Leo and most teams could just stand pat, draft one, and have them under a cheap contract for four years rather than paying Leo $14 mil on the last year of his contract.

[More Cowbell]

I watched film of both Oliver and Williams and I would take Williams all day given the choice. Oliver has a really good first step and shows ability to get off blocks when he needs to but Williams flat out dominates. This shouldn't  even be thought about. William's also looks much faster. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

3 minutes ago, cant wait said:

trade leo for a 2nd round pick & flip for frank clark

I wish/hard pass

[RSJ]

I am completely sure that Greg Williams was behind the Ward pick at four last year. That seemed like a bit of a reach at the time too - but Ward turned out to be a baller. I am fine with the pick if Greg Williams is behind it.


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[JoJoTownsell1]

48 minutes ago, RobR said:

His underwhelming season consisted of him missing a few games and still being a first team All American.

There are all americans who get drafted in the 5-7th rds or even go undrafted. Oliver is a really good player. That isn't the question. The question is whether he is worth the risk at 3rd overall. 

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I have no context for what could possibly be meant by his 'bombing' or being 'bad' in one interview. I know what I've read of his reputation generally and of the sh*t teams are wont to pull. And the conversation has gone from zero to this in literally an hour. Give me a break.

The Eagles generally have their sh*t together. That's all. He plays dline so as long as he's getting after the QB this sh*t probably doesnt matter anyways.

[cant wait]

5 minutes ago, RobR said:

I would do that in a heartbeat but I can't see Leo returning a second rounder. This is a notoriously strong draft for players like Leo and most teams could just stand pat, draft one, and have them under a cheap contract for four years rather than paying Leo $14 mil on the last year of his contract.

I could see maybe getting something from the raiders if they miss out on QW- leo seems like a gruden/mayock type of player

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, RSJ said:

I am completely sure that Greg Williams was behind the Ward pick at four last year. That seemed like a bit of a reach at the time too - but Ward turned out to be a baller. I am fine with the pick if Greg Williams is behind it.


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Also why CB jumps to the top of the list if Maccagnan can trade down into that 10-15 area. 

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I watched film of both Oliver and Williams and I would take Williams all day given the choice. Oliver has a really good first step and shows ability to get off blocks when he needs to but Williams flat out dominates. This shouldn't  even be thought about. William's also looks much faster. 

Willams not doing the explosion drills at the combine is a flag, but yeah his #tape is pretty ridiculous.

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, Larz said:

Absolutely 

its also interesting that the Jets have 2 Ivy League analytics guys and oliver has ridiculous numbers tho 

Better than Ivy League players we’ve seemed to have had. 

[RobR]

5 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

There are all americans who get drafted in the 5-7th rds or even go undrafted. Oliver is a really good player. That isn't the question. The question is whether he is worth the risk at 3rd overall. 

How many of them were 5 star recruits, 3 time first team All Americans, Outland trophy winners, conference DPOY, Etc.? He has the tape and his measurables are off the charts along with the motor. Obviously IMO he's worth the third pick because I think he's the best player in the draft regardless of position.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

There are all americans who get drafted in the 5-7th rds or even go undrafted. Oliver is a really good player. That isn't the question. The question is whether he is worth the risk at 3rd overall. 

What do your feelings tell you? Or we could try this another way.

Accolades are historic. Three years out of high school, three first team all America selections. Outland trophy as a true sophomore DL.

Production is historic. More tackles for loss than anybody else who played three seasons or fewer.

Athleticism is historic. 99 sparq, all the benchmarks on all the Waldo derivatives.

People are comparing him to the other guys in this class based on word vomit. How about a fact-based argument in favor of anybody ever? The names this is gonna produce are a sh*t ton more impressive than Quinnen ******* Williams. 

[choon328]

If the Jets use the 3rd pick on a defensive lineman Macc should be fired before the end of the 1st round. 

[CTM]

49 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

 

Cant wear a jacket on the sideline. Romper room sh*te

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

8 minutes ago, CTM said:

Cant wear a jacket on the sideline. Romper room sh*te

The polo over long tshirt thing, that's cool, but we can't have people wearing coats.