What We Don't Know

[BettyBoop]

With so many holes to fill and so few draft picks left, there are many questions that none of us have answers for.  For example:

• How do Gase and Williams really feel about Daryl Roberts as the #2 CB.  The contract they gave him is for starters money but do they really feel comfortable with Roberts and Trumaine?
• Does Williams think he can "fix" Trumaine?  I certainly hope so.
• BIG QUESTION; Is anyone in Florham Park comfortable starting Harrison at center.  I really hope not.
• What does Gase think about Leggett?  Do we need to draft another TE?
• Is there hope for Sheppard?  Fotokasi?  Can either be a decent rotational DT?
• Will McGuire and Cannon be on the team this year?  Do we need another late round RB?

So many questions.  So little time.

[J_Smith]

I think another dt and te will be picked up when teams start making cuts. Can find some solid rotational pieces then.

maybe they feel more comfortable with our corners in a zone scheme?

montgomery was the answer to rb depth behind bell

hopefully the draft gives us answers to interior o line and pass rush

[NYs Stepchild]

2 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

With so many holes to fill and so few draft picks left, there are many questions that none of us have answers for.  For example:

• How do Gase and Williams really feel about Daryl Roberts as the #2 QB.  The contract they gave him is for starters money but do they really feel comfortable with Roberts and Trumaine?
• Does Williams think he can "fix" Trumaine?  I certainly hope so.
• BIG QUESTION; Is anyone in Florham Park comfortable starting Harrison at center.  I really hope not.
• What does Gase think about Leggett?  Do we need to draft another TE?
• Is there hope for Sheppard?  Fotokasi?  Can either be a decent rotational DT?
• Will McGuire and Cannon be on the team this year?  Do we need another late round RB?

So many questions.  So little time.

I don't think Tru will be a problem if he's used properly and stays healthy. I think Roberts will have competition but It will be in the draft or someone will have to develop. There were really no answers in FA. My guess is that Roberts wins the starting job and gets plenty of safety help all year.

We will draft a Center and pick up a journeyman after the draft. No one is really heads and shoulders above Harrison at this point. They will compete for the job.

I'm afraid Tomlinson will be the Y this year. Hopefully he isn't left to account for DEs on his own this year. 

We'll see what defense we actually play. We don't have a 0 tech on the roster. 

I think Cannon will be inactive most weeks unless he crushes his special teams preseason. I doubt McGuire makes the final cut.  

[peekskill68]

I honestly don't see this infatuation many have with replacing Harrison.  He's average with possible upside.  He's not this huge liability that is going to undermine Darnold's success. 

[GreenFish]

Trumaine played better down the stretch. I think he was hurt early on. So he may not need fixing. I was expecting low end CB #1 play from him regardless of the DC. 

If fixing him you mean him living up to his contract and playing like a top 10 corner. Nope. He’s a veteran. He is was he is.

Lots of questions though. 

[NYs Stepchild]

8 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I honestly don't see this infatuation many have with replacing Harrison.  He's average with possible upside.  He's not this huge liability that is going to undermine Darnold's success. 

He is our backup G/C. 

We will need another two guys here and they will compete for starts. 

Hopefully one of them makes some strides or we'll have to compensate the way most teams do. 

When we had an all pro line Mangold used to look for trouble then go lock on a LB.

When we had troubled guards Mangold would have to help block DTs. 

[peekskill68]

9 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

He is our backup G/C. 

We will need another two guys here and they will compete for starts. 

Hopefully one of them makes some strides or we'll have to compensate the way most teams do. 

When we had an all pro line Mangold used to look for trouble then go lock on a LB.

When we had troubled guards Mangold would have to help block DTs. 

From everything I've read I think we need to assume Harrison is our starter. He's not Mangold but the fact that Macc passed on all the FA centers is telling...

[choon328]

People are ok with adding 1st round pick after 1st round pick on the  defensive line bc they think a great defensive line is key to a great defense yet they're ok with an average offensive line like that won't affect the QB, passing game and run game. I honestly don't understand that logic. "Good enough" on the offensive line is not ok when your trying to develop a franchise QB. 

Every person on the offensive line  outside of Osemele could be upgraded in the draft. The line is average to below average at 4 out of the 5 spots on the line. Leaving your young QB out to dry like that is disgraceful.

 

[BettyBoop]

Respectfully, I don't think Harrison is a legit starting center and I would not want him to anchor the OL.  At the very least, Mac should add reasonable competition (e.g., draft a center or vet pickup).  I think we feel comfortable with him because after Long at least Darnold got the ball without moving, but I just don't think he's good enough.

[BCJet]

38 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

With so many holes to fill and so few draft picks left, there are many questions that none of us have answers for.  For example:

• How do Gase and Williams really feel about Daryl Roberts as the #2 CB.  The contract they gave him is for starters money but do they really feel comfortable with Roberts and Trumaine?
• Does Williams think he can "fix" Trumaine?  I certainly hope so.
• BIG QUESTION; Is anyone in Florham Park comfortable starting Harrison at center.  I really hope not.
• What does Gase think about Leggett?  Do we need to draft another TE?
• Is there hope for Sheppard?  Fotokasi?  Can either be a decent rotational DT?
• Will McGuire and Cannon be on the team this year?  Do we need another late round RB?

So many questions.  So little time.

Great questions

1.  Roberts graded out really high by PFF and whether it was due to him or not, the defense played well when he was out there.  I think its not just a case of can Roberts hold that spot, I think it was borderline criminal how little Derrick Jones played.  This is a player who needed a year to get used to the NFL and playing CB (was a WR for a while in College) but has excellent size, elite speed and played well in TC.  He then played well in the one real game, week 17.  He needs a shot.

2. I think Trumaine will play better when he has a DC that will use him correctly and when the team is winning (thats my hope).

3.  After seeing the Darnold video in the other thread, we can't be comfortable with Harrison.

4.  I can't imagine Leggett suddenly being healthy enough and not a big enough liability as a blocker to be a regular NFL backup TE.  Id like to see us take one in the 5th round and then hope Sterling can stay healthy.

5.  Shepphard needs to be given an opportunity to play.  He was a high pick, who did well in the senior bowl and again, could be better in a system that uses him correctly.  He's not a NT nor a 3-4 end, he needs to be allowed to try to penetrate all preseason and see if he can belong.  I can't see a roster spot for Fotokasi

6. McGuire looks slow to me and had a bunch of drops, but did produce.  Maybe he can be the 3rd RB, but I dont think hes a reliable backup.  I personally do like Ty Montgomery - he can't handle 20 touches but as a receiving back and a 10 touch guy we could do worse.  Will be interesting to see if Cannon can take a step forward.

[BettyBoop]

4 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Great questions

1.  Roberts graded out really high by PFF and whether it was due to him or not, the defense played well when he was out there.  I think its not just a case of can Roberts hold that spot, I think it was borderline criminal how little Derrick Jones played.  This is a player who needed a year to get used to the NFL and playing CB (was a WR for a while in College) but has excellent size, elite speed and played well in TC.  He then played well in the one real game, week 17.  He needs a shot.

2. I think Trumaine will play better when he has a DC that will use him correctly and when the team is winning (thats my hope).

3.  After seeing the Darnold video in the other thread, we can't be comfortable with Harrison.

4.  I can't imagine Leggett suddenly being healthy enough and not a big enough liability as a blocker to be a regular NFL backup TE.  Id like to see us take one in the 5th round and then hope Sterling can stay healthy.

5.  Shepphard needs to be given an opportunity to play.  He was a high pick, who did well in the senior bowl and again, could be better in a system that uses him correctly.  He's not a NT nor a 3-4 end, he needs to be allowed to try to penetrate all preseason and see if he can belong.  I can't see a roster spot for Fotokasi

6. McGuire looks slow to me and had a bunch of drops, but did produce.  Maybe he can be the 3rd RB, but I dont think hes a reliable backup.  I personally do like Ty Montgomery - he can't handle 20 touches but as a receiving back and a 10 touch guy we could do worse.  Will be interesting to see if Cannon can take a step forward.

I completely agree about Jones.  I just didn't understand why he didn't play more.  When he did get on the field, he did well.  We'll have to see what Williams will do with him.

[Larz]

We know nothing lol

the biggest question mark is how the new staff feels about the guys a year or 2 from free agency, who is in the long term plans 

the brady window is the key 

dont do anything’s rash this year as it’s unlikely to win the division this year considering the schedule 

nobody wants to hear it, but the reality is they should be thinking about 2020 as the year to plan for 

[Jet_Engine1]

45 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I honestly don't see this infatuation many have with replacing Harrison.  He's average with possible upside.  He's not this huge liability that is going to undermine Darnold's success. 

He was terrible last year as a blocker. Substandard depth-level talent. 

[JohnnyLV]

28 minutes ago, choon328 said:

People are ok with adding 1st round pick after 1st round pick on the  defensive line bc they think a great defensive line is key to a great defense yet they're ok with an average offensive line like that won't affect the QB, passing game and run game. I honestly don't understand that logic. "Good enough" on the offensive line is not ok when your trying to develop a franchise QB. 

Every person on the offensive line  outside of Osemele could be upgraded in the draft. The line is average to below average at 4 out of the 5 spots on the line. Leaving your young QB out to dry like that is disgraceful.

 

Post of the week right. Some Jets fans are just blinded by the all defense philosophy we have followed so long

[NYs Stepchild]

38 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

From everything I've read I think we need to assume Harrison is our starter. He's not Mangold but the fact that Macc passed on all the FA centers is telling...

The way I look at it, no one we sign will improve our record right now. 

We'll see how the draft goes then sign cheap FAs after the draft and let them compete with Harrison as the incumbent. 

The loser will be the backup. 

[NYs Stepchild]

38 minutes ago, choon328 said:

People are ok with adding 1st round pick after 1st round pick on the  defensive line bc they think a great defensive line is key to a great defense yet they're ok with an average offensive line like that won't affect the QB, passing game and run game. I honestly don't understand that logic. "Good enough" on the offensive line is not ok when your trying to develop a franchise QB. 

Every person on the offensive line  outside of Osemele could be upgraded in the draft. The line is average to below average at 4 out of the 5 spots on the line. Leaving your young QB out to dry like that is disgraceful.

 

I'm not sure how many offense linemen will be good starters in their first year. 

I'd rather have future blue chip prospects than have satisfactory play this year.

Either way any rookie will have to compete for the job week 1. 

Osemele should help make the entire line look better regardless. 

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, BettyBoop said:

With so many holes to fill and so few draft picks left, there are many questions that none of us have answers for.  For example:

• How do Gase and Williams really feel about Daryl Roberts as the #2 CB.  The contract they gave him is for starters money but do they really feel comfortable with Roberts and Trumaine?
• Does Williams think he can "fix" Trumaine?  I certainly hope so.
• BIG QUESTION; Is anyone in Florham Park comfortable starting Harrison at center.  I really hope not.
• What does Gase think about Leggett?  Do we need to draft another TE?
• Is there hope for Sheppard?  Fotokasi?  Can either be a decent rotational DT?
• Will McGuire and Cannon be on the team this year?  Do we need another late round RB?

So many questions.  So little time.

Roberts is an average cb. So many teams have 2 elite wr’s. Nowadays you need 2 elite cb’s. As far as fixing Tru, we’re stuck with him so I’ll be crossing my fingers. Harrison is a backup. Period. Provides good depth. Protecting Sam should be first and foremost. The only way I don’t trade back and go OL is if Bosa is there at 3. Leggett is Herndon’s backup. We need to replace Tomlinson and find a good blocking TE. Macc’s pick of Sheppard was a bust. McGuire is another bust and Cannon, if used in right spots can make this team. 

[peekskill68]

58 minutes ago, choon328 said:

People are ok with adding 1st round pick after 1st round pick on the  defensive line bc they think a great defensive line is key to a great defense yet they're ok with an average offensive line like that won't affect the QB, passing game and run game. I honestly don't understand that logic. "Good enough" on the offensive line is not ok when your trying to develop a franchise QB. 

Every person on the offensive line  outside of Osemele could be upgraded in the draft. The line is average to below average at 4 out of the 5 spots on the line. Leaving your young QB out to dry like that is disgraceful.

 

I agree 100% that Macc has done next to nothing to upgrade the OL talent.  But having said that,  how much of our mediocre line play was talent related? How much would you say was Bates predictable play calling? How much was coaching and not being able to read and react to DL stunts and blitzes? How much was Crowell not seeing things?  I'm not ready to say 80% of our line is below average and I certainly wouldn't overdraft based on perceived need. 

[choon328]

2 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

I agree 100% that Macc has done next to nothing to upgrade the OL talent.  But having said that,  how much of our mediocre line play was talent related? How much would you say was Bates predictable play calling? How much was coaching and not being able to read and react to DL stunts and blitzes? How much was Crowell not seeing things?  I'm not ready to say 80% of our line is below average and I certainly wouldn't overdraft based on perceived need. 

Forget talent for a minute. Both tackles are free agents after next year and both guards are free agents the following year and aging. And the current default starting Center is a backup. The old coaching staff thought so little of Harrison they let Long fumble snaps back to Darnold over and over.

The Jets need to get ahead of all of that this off-season. Over the next two drafts they need come away with at least 3 starters on the line but 4 would be preferable. Otherwise they'll be screwed for 2020 and beyond.

All you guys want to do is blame the old coaches. "Leo and Lee were bad bc of Rodgers and Bowles". The offensive line was one of the worst blocking units in NFL in 2019 but "that's all Bates' fault". How about the players are just not great? Talent, the majority of the time, shines through. The excuses for these guys are old.

[Peace Frog]

I thought this thread was going to delve into what happens after we die, maybe someone would regale us with stories of life from beyond, near death or out of body experiences. 

I am disappoint. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 hours ago, BettyBoop said:

With so many holes to fill and so few draft picks left, there are many questions that none of us have answers for.  For example:

• How do Gase and Williams really feel about Daryl Roberts as the #2 CB.  The contract they gave him is for starters money but do they really feel comfortable with Roberts and Trumaine?
• Does Williams think he can "fix" Trumaine?  I certainly hope so.
• BIG QUESTION; Is anyone in Florham Park comfortable starting Harrison at center.  I really hope not.
• What does Gase think about Leggett?  Do we need to draft another TE?
• Is there hope for Sheppard?  Fotokasi?  Can either be a decent rotational DT?
• Will McGuire and Cannon be on the team this year?  Do we need another late round RB?

So many questions.  So little time.

All good points which is why it's always tough to predict what teams will do in the draft.

[peebag]

8 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I thought this thread was going to delve into what happens after we die, maybe someone would regale us with stories of life from beyond, near death or out of body experiences. 

I am disappoint. 

Ok, let me clue you in, in the end we become worm food.

[14 in Green]

Guys, let’s be real here for a second. We’re talking about a 4 win team that’s won 14 games in 3 years. Did you ever stop to think there was another reason besides Todd Bowles for that? Like maybe a lack of talent?

Its a little silly to look at this roster coming off 4 wins, and expect to fill every hole this offseason. 

We all know the Jets haven’t drafted well so despite the FAs we’ve signed, there is very little top tier talent on this team except for Bell, Mosely, and Adams. 

The OL is a mess. Surprise! We ignore it every draft. Why we didn’t sign a C instead of overpaying a LB, I’ll never understand.

The WRs are ok, no standouts.

The DL, despite all the attention it gets, is average at best.

The secondary, assuming Maye can stay on the field, could be above average, as can the LBing group.

Not much depth anywhere, a 1st and two 3rds in the draft will hopefully at least help there and add one or two starters.

It is what it is, we’re a team hoping a young QB and some FA patch jobs  can make us at least respectable this year. Until this team figures out how to draft, we are never going to be much more then that.

 

[Peace Frog]

6 minutes ago, peebag said:

Ok, let me clue you in, in the end we become worm food.

On Easter Weekend?

You monster. 

[BCJet]

5 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Roberts is an average cb. So many teams have 2 elite wr’s. Nowadays you need 2 elite cb’s. As far as fixing Tru, we’re stuck with him so I’ll be crossing my fingers. Harrison is a backup. Period. Provides good depth. Protecting Sam should be first and foremost. The only way I don’t trade back and go OL is if Bosa is there at 3. Leggett is Herndon’s backup. We need to replace Tomlinson and find a good blocking TE. Macc’s pick of Sheppard was a bust. McGuire is another bust and Cannon, if used in right spots can make this team. 

Which teams have 2 elite WRs?

[Wonderboy]

11 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Which teams have 2 elite WRs?

A few but most teams have 1 outstanding WR with the other being very good. In essence, Roberts will have his hands full covering any team’s #2 WR. We need another shutdown CB. 

[14 in Green]

14 minutes ago, BCJet said:

edit

[14 in Green]

20 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Which teams have 2 elite WRs?

 

8 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

A few but most teams have 1 outstanding WR with the other being very good. In essence, Roberts will have his hands full covering any team’s #2 WR. We need another shutdown CB. 

He has no idea what he’s talking about, BCJet.

So he gave you “hominahominahomina”.

[peekskill68]

2 hours ago, choon328 said:

Forget talent for a minute. Both tackles are free agents after next year and both guards are free agents the following year and aging. And the current default starting Center is a backup. The old coaching staff thought so little of Harrison they let Long fumble snaps back to Darnold over and over.

The Jets need to get ahead of all of that this off-season. Over the next two drafts they need come away with at least 3 starters on the line but 4 would be preferable. Otherwise they'll be screwed for 2020 and beyond.

All you guys want to do is blame the old coaches. "Leo and Lee were bad bc of Rodgers and Bowles". The offensive line was one of the worst blocking units in NFL in 2019 but "that's all Bates' fault". How about the players are just not great? Talent, the majority of the time, shines through. The excuses for these guys are old.

All your points are good, and I'm not here to turn this into a agree to disagree standoff.  Looking at a crude analysis of line play based on rushing yardage and sacks, our OL ranked 26th in producing rushing yards and our DL ranked 26th against the rush.  Our OL ranked 20th on sacks allowed and our DL (front 7) ranked 16th on sacks recorded.  So basically they both suck about the same. As far as I can tell, Henry Anderson is the only D Lineman we have locked up for 2020 (not including Shepherd and Fatukasi).  On the OL we have KO, Winters and Harrison signed but no OT's.  Macc has a problem with both units looking out to 2020 and may be forced to use the tag...

[NYJ1]

No. Not at all. I expect him to trade down. IMO, unless Mac trades down and successfully adds a windfall of talent he gets fired.

[RoadFan]

6 hours ago, BCJet said:

Great questions

1.  Roberts graded out really high by PFF and whether it was due to him or not, the defense played well when he was out there.  I think its not just a case of can Roberts hold that spot, I think it was borderline criminal how little Derrick Jones played.  This is a player who needed a year to get used to the NFL and playing CB (was a WR for a while in College) but has excellent size, elite speed and played well in TC.  He then played well in the one real game, week 17.  He needs a shot.

2. I think Trumaine will play better when he has a DC that will use him correctly and when the team is winning (thats my hope).

3.  After seeing the Darnold video in the other thread, we can't be comfortable with Harrison.

4.  I can't imagine Leggett suddenly being healthy enough and not a big enough liability as a blocker to be a regular NFL backup TE.  Id like to see us take one in the 5th round and then hope Sterling can stay healthy.

5.  Shepphard needs to be given an opportunity to play.  He was a high pick, who did well in the senior bowl and again, could be better in a system that uses him correctly.  He's not a NT nor a 3-4 end, he needs to be allowed to try to penetrate all preseason and see if he can belong.  I can't see a roster spot for Fotokasi

6. McGuire looks slow to me and had a bunch of drops, but did produce.  Maybe he can be the 3rd RB, but I dont think hes a reliable backup.  I personally do like Ty Montgomery - he can't handle 20 touches but as a receiving back and a 10 touch guy we could do worse.  Will be interesting to see if Cannon can take a step forward.

 

7 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

I don't think Tru will be a problem if he's used properly and stays healthy. I think Roberts will have competition but It will be in the draft or someone will have to develop. There were really no answers in FA. My guess is that Roberts wins the starting job and gets plenty of safety help all year.

We will draft a Center and pick up a journeyman after the draft. No one is really heads and shoulders above Harrison at this point. They will compete for the job.

I'm afraid Tomlinson will be the Y this year. Hopefully he isn't left to account for DEs on his own this year. 

We'll see what defense we actually play. We don't have a 0 tech on the roster. 

I think Cannon will be inactive most weeks unless he crushes his special teams preseason. I doubt McGuire makes the final cut.  

 

7 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Trumaine played better down the stretch. I think he was hurt early on. So he may not need fixing. I was expecting low end CB #1 play from him regardless of the DC. 

If fixing him you mean him living up to his contract and playing like a top 10 corner. Nope. He’s a veteran. He is was he is.

Lots of questions though. 

 

I admire optimism.  It is a better attitude than being a pessimist like myself.  Even a mild optimism like Fish.

But according to what I saw last season, Trumaine Johnson spent most games competing with Spencer Long for the label of worst player on the field.  

The only positive I can find about Tru is actually a negative.  His effort last season stunk, so maybe he is capable of more....

Nevertheless, I can't even bring myself to expect average play from him.  He was dreadful at every aspect of playing defense.

 

 

[greenwave81]

8 hours ago, BettyBoop said:

 

• How do Gase and Williams really feel about Daryl Roberts as the #2 CB.  The contract they gave him is for starters money but do they really feel comfortable with Roberts and Trumaine?
•  

We also don't know how the present CS feels about the multitude of other CBs on the roster drafted/traded for previously like Jeremy Clark, Parry Nickerson, Derrick Jones and Rashad Robinson.

We seem to be the only team where players come to stagnate and not develop. 

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

 

He has no idea what he’s talking about, BCJet.

So he gave you “hominahominahomina”.

LOL ? love Jackie. This one’s for you.

 

[jetspenguin]

4 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

On Easter Weekend?

You monster. 

give it a few days....he'll be back

[Peace Frog]

3 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

give it a few days....he'll be back

Well that’s just blasphemy.