Ed Oliver vs. Quinnen Williams

[Phillyjet]

Everyone is talking about how Quinnen Williams is the best player in the draft, but it's hard to evaluate Bama's defensive players as they are so stacked, their players don't face the double teams, etc that players on other teams face.  Historically Bama's defensive lineman have been meh in the NFL on average.  Now people look at Oliver and don't see the stats but he was basically rushing as a sole lineman in many situations, was triple teamed often, and yet still found ways to penetrate.  Add to that his ability to move around the line and perhaps stand up like Melvin Ingram, he can become a weapon and team leader quickly.  Thoughts?  Warming up to him.

[Beerfish]

I do not want a dlineman if possible.  I would prefer to trade down.

Having said that I would rather have Oliver if we go dline.

[J_Smith]

Oliver is the superior athlete and was playing out of position all year. I’d rather Oliver because i believe he has more versatility. I’m sure in private workouts they tried him as an edge rusher to see if he’s capable.

i just don’t think QW makes sense in a 3-4, especially with who we already have as D ends. Leo is serviceable and i cannot see QW outperforming anderson’s Production. Their role is mostly opening up lanes for Williamson and Mosley. Don’t need to use a #3 pick on that role

[Nixhead]

Trade Down!

[HighPitch]

I like Oliver too but nobody’s talking about how he had a big fight with his coach on national TV so I question his character

[GreenFish]

My preference is to trade down. If we stay put take an edge.

In terms of iDL. I’d say Oliver > Q Williams.

[RobR]

[Ghost]

I’m not crazy about Williams. I think Oliver is going to be a beast but we need an OLB more than anything. We haven’t had a serious pass rusher in about 15 years. This is crazy. 

[Beerfish]

34 minutes ago, RobR said:

It's only a flesh wound!

[BornJetsFan1983]

Q Williams is crazy good. Can't complain if we get him

[cant wait]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

I’m not crazy about Williams. I think Oliver is going to be a beast but we need an OLB more than anything. We haven’t had a serious pass rusher in about 15 years. This is crazy. 

[Paradis]

Not even a conversation for me. Oliver every time. 

You're not drafting these kids to continue being the player they were in College. You're drafting them for who you think they can be in the NFL... If Oliver reaches his potential... the moon. 

[JohnnyLV]

trade down

[RutgersJetFan]

6 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

Everyone is talking about how Quinnen Williams is the best player in the draft...

EVERYONE

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

Everyone is talking about how Quinnen Williams is the best player in the draft, but it's hard to evaluate Bama's defensive players as they are so stacked, their players don't face the double teams, etc that players on other teams face.  Historically Bama's defensive lineman have been meh in the NFL on average.  Now people look at Oliver and don't see the stats but he was basically rushing as a sole lineman in many situations, was triple teamed often, and yet still found ways to penetrate.  Add to that his ability to move around the line and perhaps stand up like Melvin Ingram, he can become a weapon and team leader quickly.  Thoughts?  Warming up to him.

I agree with this. 

[Villain The Foe]

38 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

trade down

 

[WayneChrebet80]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

I agree with this. 

How can you agree with an argument that is so flawed?

#1 Recent Alabama DL draft picks Jonathan Allen, Dashawn Hand, and Ashawn Robinson have all been good picks. 

#2 Why should it matter what previous Alabama DL did on the next level with regards to Quinnen Williams? Are we supposed to target Pitt DL because Aaron Donald is awesome? I’ve heard the same bogus Bud Dupree comparisons with Josh Allen and it’s infuriating.

#3 The Alabama defense this year largely benefitted from Quinnen than the other way around. What other Bama defensive players are going high in the draft?

#4 It’s a bad year for the Jets to have a top 3 pick. None of these guys are perfect prospects

 

[Jetpain]

If they go D line with their first pick, where exactly are they getting their pass rushing LB, and CB?  is it the 3rd round and we completely ignore O line until round 4?  Hard to stomach 

[Scoop24]

Just now, Jetpain said:

If they go D line with their first pick, where exactly are they getting their pass rushing LB, and CB?  is it the 3rd round and we completely ignore O line until round 4?  Hard to stomach 

The draft is not gonna fix everything . 

[ZachEY]

10 hours ago, HighPitch said:

I like Oliver too but nobody’s talking about how he had a big fight with his coach on national TV so I question his character

Good news is, we drafted a guy largely for his leadership intangibles at 6 a couple years ago, and then just paid 85M for another one.  Short of a outright criminal, there’s simply no reason we can’t take on any player with talent as we’re over-stuffed with leadership.

[Joe the Breadman]

Not to redirect things here but latest word is that Arizona is backing away from taking Kyler Murray. If that is the case I dont think QW makes it to the 3rd selection. 

 

And if Bosa goes 1 and William's goes 2 then Macc might actually get his wish and accomplish a trade back....every QB on the board will be available.

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, WayneChrebet80 said:

How can you agree with an argument that is so flawed?

#1 Recent Alabama DL draft picks Jonathan Allen, Dashawn Hand, and Ashawn Robinson have all been good picks. 

#2 Why should it matter what previous Alabama DL did on the next level with regards to Quinnen Williams? Are we supposed to target Pitt DL because Aaron Donald is awesome? I’ve heard the same bogus Bud Dupree comparisons with Josh Allen and it’s infuriating.

#3 The Alabama defense this year largely benefitted from Quinnen than the other way around. What other Bama defensive players are going high in the draft?

#4 It’s a bad year for the Jets to have a top 3 pick. None of these guys are perfect prospects

 

My agreement is with the comparison between Q and Ed and his explanation of the surrounding talent of each guy. His opinion to support his conclusion are his specifically, but the gist of it I do agree with

And having a #3 pick is always bad unless you trade up. It means you had a crap season. 

 

[Philc1]

Oliver is 6’1 280 and he’s supposed to play full time interior DL in a 3-4?  Hahahgahaha 

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, Joe the Breadman said:

Not to redirect things here but latest word is that Arizona is backing away from taking Kyler Murray. If that is the case I dont think QW makes it to the 3rd selection. 

 

And if Bosa goes 1 and William's goes 2 then Macc might actually get his wish and accomplish a trade back....every QB on the board will be available.

I think it’s bs

 

Arizona is doing due diligence to see if they can get a heist of picks in a trade down 

 

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Oliver is 6’1 280 and he’s supposed to play full time interior DL in a 3-4?  Hahahgahaha 

Well the thinking is that he could in theory go to rush OLB. There is a line of thinking that he played out of position at Housto which is why he got into conflicts with his coaches.

Most people picture him as a 3-4 DE

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Well the thinking is that he could in theory go to rush OLB. There is a line of thinking that he played out of position at Housto which is why he got into conflicts with his coaches.

Most people picture him as a 3-4 DE

You want to convert a career interior DL to outside linebacker with the 3rd overall pick in the draft?

 

Did you not see us ruin Quinton Coples doing exactly that?

 

[bitonti]

15 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

Everyone is talking about how Quinnen Williams is the best player in the draft, but it's hard to evaluate Bama's defensive players as they are so stacked, their players don't face the double teams, etc that players on other teams face.  Historically Bama's defensive lineman have been meh in the NFL on average.  Now people look at Oliver and don't see the stats but he was basically rushing as a sole lineman in many situations, was triple teamed often, and yet still found ways to penetrate.  Add to that his ability to move around the line and perhaps stand up like Melvin Ingram, he can become a weapon and team leader quickly.  Thoughts?  Warming up to him.

QW is a safer pick in the sense the league has seen guys like him come from that school and do well, and he's supposedly their best DL prospect for a generation 

Oliver played against worse comp and he does have serious size deficiencies by traditional scouting standards. But he has rarer physical gifts than QW and Oliver could play end like Ngakoue. I think both are great picks  

Bosa is the dude who could stand up (Allen as well) 

[Philc1]

Just now, bitonti said:

QW is a safer pick in the sense the league has seen guys like him come from that school and do well, and he's supposedly their best DL prospect for a generation 

Oliver played against worse comp and he does have serious size deficiencies by traditional scouting standards. But he has rarer physical gifts than QW and Oliver could play end like Ngakoue. I think both are great picks  

Bosa is the dude who could stand up (Allen as well) 

QW also has incredible physical gifts

[bitonti]

12 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

QW also has incredible physical gifts

yes but Not as incredible as Olivers

Q Williams and Josh allen are both 80-ish sparq guys meaning they would be in the 80th percentile for their position, compared against all the current players in the league. There's nothing shameful in that score, it's real good. 

but Ed Oliver is a 99 sparq, just ridiculously rare 

for context his 20 yard split was faster than Desean Jackson, Saquon Barkley and Antonio Brown 

 

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

yes but Not as incredible as Olivers

Q Williams and Josh allen are both 80-ish sparq guys meaning they would be in the 80th percentile for their position, compared against all the current players in the league. There's nothing shameful in that score, it's real good. 

but Ed Oliver is a 99 sparq, just ridiculously rare 

for context his 20 yard split was faster than Desean Jackson, Saquon Barkley and Antonio Brown 

 

I’m not disagreeing that Oliver can be a very good player in the nfl but the jets need to be a 4-3 and Oliver has to be a DE or DT in that scheme otherwise here we go again with putting a square peg in round hole 

[Philc1]

16 hours ago, cant wait said:

He’s supposedly listed at 290 though he’s really 280

 

Holy Quinton Coples

[Paradis]

22 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I’m not disagreeing that Oliver can be a very good player in the nfl but the jets need to be a 4-3 and Oliver has to be a DE or DT in that scheme otherwise here we go again with putting a square peg in round hole 

dude, whats the fcking difference. Oliver -- it's a problem because 4-3 blah blah.... QW? Last time I checked he doesn't play NT, so it's no god damn different. He's going to be rotating as much, if not more, with Anderson and Leo... so spare me "best fit" argument. 

I need a hand job with welding gloves more than we need another DT on the team, period. If we must, Oliver all the way. 

[TuscanyTile2]

12 hours ago, WayneChrebet80 said:

I’ve heard the same bogus Bud Dupree comparisons with Josh Allen and it’s infuriating.

Is Bud Dupree no good?  (I remember he was a workout warrior type guy but he fell to the Steelers in the draft.  I just don't know if he's been a disappointment).

[TuscanyTile2]

16 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I need a hand job with welding gloves more than we need another DT on the team, period. If we must, Oliver all the way. 

https://www.yelp.com/biz/orchids-of-asia-day-spa-jupiter

[MichaelScott]

Couldnt click this thread fast enough once I read the title. Finally someone comes up with a fresh, not yet discussed topic.