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Why don’t we want one of the big 3?


Philc1

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4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

We passed on Dan Marino and Payton Manning for Kenny O’Brien and James Farrior

 

Now Mac is trying to trade down to draft a Guard

 

What a joke

And yet we didnt pass on Sam Darnold, which by the way Jets fans have praised Darnold since the 2016 Rose Bowl. I will assume that Jets fans generally view Darnold as the Marino/Peyton type. 

If that's the case, trading down to protect your Marino/Peyton type isnt a joke, but pretty smart. 

Also, are you claiming that Bosa, Q and Allen are the defensive equivalent to Peyton and Marino? 

Lastly, I watched the Colts draft a guard and they made the playoffs, and that was a team with 0 pass rush. I watched the Broncos pick up their 2nd pass rusher and they sat a home watching the playoffs. 

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2 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol mac is not going to “ fleece “ anyone for 3. He overpaid last yr, but that is because the qb prospects were that good. Not even close this yr.. I hope we do trade down, unless they are terrible offers. We trade back where we can pick a major position of need, OL, around mid first, and again in the 2nd. When we pick up 1. O tackle and center, 2 of our biggest needs 

That is the laziest comment that people keep making about that trade. The Redskins went from #6 to #2 to get a QB and gave up 2 first round picks and a 2nd round pick. The Jets gave up 3 second round picks. Tell me how the Jets overpaid. The trade value chart means nothing when it comes to trading up for a QB.

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2 hours ago, RobR said:

I watched his game tape not his highlight reel. I don't hate QW, I hate QW @3 overall because I don't see the upside that Oliver possesses.

QW also played on what I thought was the greatest college team I've ever watched(at least until the CG). I'd wager a guess that over half of Bamas defense will be drafted by the NFL. Oliver played on an island at Houston.

Well, sometimes small school prospects are huge booms. Khalil Mack from Buffalo?

I’d still be sick to my stomach about a DL but just to add a few pennies to the pot in this discussion.

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33 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

No, now I'm intrigued. You're telling me that time is an actual thing and that we can only regard stuff that hasn't happened yet probabilistically? YOU'RE BLOWING MY MIND.

No, I think he's saying all of the arm chair amateur scouts who are declaring some players as "generational" and others as "reaches" don't know a ******* thing. Which is true.

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14 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I find that hard to believe. I mean there has to be SOME kind of follow-up to the heretofore inconceivable observation that we're at an information disadvantage as compared to the people who actually do this. Don't hold out now. Enlighten me.

Nope. You’ve got it covered sufficiently. 

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1 minute ago, choon328 said:

That if the laziest comment that people keep making about that trade. The Redskins went from #6 to #2 to get a QB and gave up 2 first round picks and a 2nd round pick. The Jets gave up 3 second round picks. Tell me how the Jets overpaid. The trade value chart means nothing when it comes to trading up for a QB.

comparing the well known to be worst overpaid trade in nfl history is not a good argument lol. That was even before rg3 was a flop, every said immediately after the trade that was a hack job in the worst way. 

 You are right, 3 2’s for Sam darnold is absolutely worth it.. Especially with how bad mac has been outside of the easy blue chip picks.. I’m not arguing that. But it sure would have suckked balls if darnold was not there, and we had to pick Allen or Rosen wouldn’t it ? Mac would have been forced to give up this yrs number 1 to giants, if they were actually a smart franchise and at least made Mac believe they may trade the pick to someone else right before the pick, unless they gave him our 19 number 1.

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Here's one concern about Oliver. This dude had offers from every major team in the Country and he decided to go to Houston. Granted it's his hometown but there has to be some concern that he opted to go to a school that plays lesser opponents and didn't statistically dominate. 

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2 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Nope. You’ve got it covered sufficiently. 

See, I just don't feel like I do. There is clearly such a void of reason and common sense that you perceived an opportunity to jump in and educate us dummies, so please make with the education. Don't get pee-shy about belaboring the obvious now.

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3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Here's one concern about Oliver. This dude had offers from every major team in the Country and he decided to go to Houston. Granted it's his hometown but there has to be some concern that he opted to go to a school that plays lesser opponents and didn't statistically dominate. 

I haven’t heard one person knock Oliver for staying in Houston.  If you actually read up on the guy you’ll see why he wanted to stay.  The notion that he was somehow afraid of the competition is laughable.  

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5 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Here's one concern about Oliver. This dude had offers from every major team in the Country and he decided to go to Houston. Granted it's his hometown but there has to be some concern that he opted to go to a school that plays lesser opponents and didn't statistically dominate. 

I'm a better armchair GM than you are an armchair psychologist. I'm a better particle physicist than you are an armchair psychologist. Try google.

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4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

So trade Leo for a second.  We get another early pick plus avoid Mac’s next stupid contract

 

Win win 

 

In a perfect world that might work but in the real world no one is giving up a 2nd rounder for Leo. Based on his play so far and the money he will cost in the future it just isn't happening.

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8 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Here's one concern about Oliver. This dude had offers from every major team in the Country and he decided to go to Houston. Granted it's his hometown but there has to be some concern that he opted to go to a school that plays lesser opponents and didn't statistically dominate. 

Yes. The fact that he loves his mother is definitely concerning.

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9 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

See, I just don't feel like I do. There is clearly such a void of reason and common sense that you perceived an opportunity to jump in and educate us dummies, so please make with the education. Don't get pee-shy about belaboring the obvious now.

This is getting creepy now. 

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16 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Here's one concern about Oliver. This dude had offers from every major team in the Country and he decided to go to Houston. Granted it's his hometown but there has to be some concern that he opted to go to a school that plays lesser opponents and didn't statistically dominate. 

It was either that or play for Texas A&M those are the two local programs maybe he just liked Houston better for whatever reason

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8 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

In a perfect world that might work but in the real world no one is giving up a 2nd rounder for Leo. Based on his play so far and the money he will cost in the future it just isn't happening.

Why? We got a second for Sheldon two years ago under the same circumstances 

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2 hours ago, Ohhthepain said:

Because this roster has so many holes, we cant afford to take a luxury pick of an IDL. Weve done that so many f*****ng times this past decade it makes me sick. There is no Aaron Donald In this draft. The Jets future success is directly correlated with the success of SAM DARNOLD. No one has as much of an effect on this team than he does. D line alone wont win us games, QB play will. We need to set him up to succeed. Oline needs to be priority 1. Mac has picked 2 Olineman out of 28 picks. TWO. Oline needs to be addressed.  

It’s not a luxury pick. Our defense sucked last year

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4 hours ago, PepPep said:

I don;t know why people refer to 'all these holes'. What holes? No, I get it. The Jets need to upgrade at a number of positions to be contenders. But to think that they can do that by adding a second round pick while moving down in the draft is not realistic. Yes, they need an OT b/c Beachem probably wont be here next year BUT, there is no OT in this whole draft that could step in and the win the job over Beachem. There just isn't. 

Is there a WR that can step in and take over Enunwa's or Robbies job? Nope. I don't see anyone like that. A slot WR that can come in and take Crowder's job? Nope. A RB that can take Bells job? Or even McGuires? 

Sure, one of the top 2 C prospects could probably take Harrison's job. But does that mean we NEED to trade down to FILL THAT HOLE? 

I'm not sure there is a CB that can come in and beat out Roberts for his job. Or Poole for the Nickel spot. Or Tru for the #1 CB spot. Sure, the Jets need to continue adding young talent and depth a number of positions (like most teams). But this notion that they have holes all over the roster is simply untrue. They addressed a lot of holes in FA by bringing back their own guys and bringing in new players.

I don't know how someone can assume that these completely unproven rookie prospects are better than what the Jets were able to get in FA or what they already have on the team. 

So, to me, the one position where a player can come in and take over the starting job is Pass Rusher. Allen or Bosa can come right in and start as an edge rusher over Copeland or Lee (who if not traded may be pushed out as a situational player or OLB in a 3-4 across from Jenkins). 

So, to me, you stick at #3 and take Bosa or Allen. I have confidence in both guys to be legit Pro Bowl caliber players. Bosa being the better pure pass rusher, Allen being the better versatile Pass Rusher. Bosa having the injury history that scares me a bit. 

I'm hoping Bosa IS a 49er and Allen, the local NJ kid is drafted by the Jets. He has a great work ethic, he has zero injury red flags, zero off field red flags, he played all 4 years in college, he put up big numbers, his measurables are great, his combine numbers are great, he fits as a prototypical 3-4 OLB, there is ZERO reason not to draft him at 3.          

Wow where to start? Holes? OL,CB,EDGE,WR(yes WR). Sam HAS to be protected. IF they can trade down and grab an OL in the first and then grab another one in the 2nd(one of the C) or one of the edge guys this draft is stacked with that pick goes a long way towards filling 2 of those holes. Or if you like they can reverse that and take an EDGE in the first and an OL in the 2nd. Picking up a 2nd opens a ton of possibilities in this draft. You can't discount that.

You can then grab a WR and CB in the 3rd with those two picks and then you can start to see how crucial picking up that 2nd rounder would be. You already have your franchise QB. Protecting him and giving him weapons should be the focus of this draft. Ignoring the OL as Macc has done, especially after going all out for Sam, is just plain dumb and borders on negligence IMO. The focus needs to be on Sam and keeping him upright.

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Just now, JetFaninMI said:

Wow where to start? Holes? OL,CB,EDGE,WR(yes WR). Sam HAS to be protected. IF they can trade down and grab an OL in the first and then grab another one in the 2nd(one of the C) or one of the edge guys this draft is stacked with that pick goes a long way towards filling 2 of those holes. Or if you like they can reverse that and take an EDGE in the first and an OL in the 2nd. Picking up a 2nd opens a ton of possibilities in this draft. You can't discount that.

You can then grab a WR and CB in the 3rd with those two picks and then you can start to see how crucial picking up that 2nd rounder would be. You already have your franchise QB. Protecting him and giving him weapons should be the focus of this draft. Ignoring the OL as Macc has done, especially after going all out for Sam, is just plain dumb and borders on negligence IMO. The focus needs to be on Sam and keeping him upright.

Yet our biggest hole by far is pass rusher which Allen and Bosa are

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Just now, Philc1 said:

Yet our biggest hole by far is pass rusher which Allen and Bosa are

Not when you drafted Sam and then signed Bell. You cannot make those moves and go with the OL we currently have. Sure trading for O was a start but you need a C and having depth in a position like OL has to be the focus. They can trade the pick and still add an EDGE in the first with little problem. That is provided Macc can make a deal.

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3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

What's concerning is his non dominance at a smallish college program. That's the real concern.

Yes. 3-time All-American and the Outland Trophy. Definitely red flags of non-dominance. Couple this with his relationship with his family and its clear he has bust written all over him.

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3 hours ago, section314 said:

No offense, but if he is what you think these guys will become, then we sure as sh*t better not take either one with the 3rd pick.

Well yeah 13, 9 and 10 sacks sucks let’s trade down to get a guard and a couple extra 5th rd picks

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3 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Not when you drafted Sam and then signed Bell. You cannot make those moves and go with the OL we currently have. Sure trading for O was a start but you need a C and having depth in a position like OL has to be the focus. They can trade the pick and still add an EDGE in the first with little problem. That is provided Macc can make a deal.

Wasn’t our OL just rated 14th overall?  

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28 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I'm a better armchair GM than you are an armchair psychologist. I'm a better particle physicist than you are an armchair psychologist. Try google.

You don't know anything. I'm pretty sure you're quite familiar with Google since you just regurgitate scouting reports written by people who actually are scouts for a living. You're like 99.9% of the rest of the people on this site. The only exception is that you and a few others actually believe you could do a better job. 

And I don't care why he decided to stay in Houston. The question I asked about him not going to a big college program was for sure asked by front office people to him during this process. And then the following up was, "why didn't you dominate at that level of play". 13.5 sacks in 3 years against sub standard offensive lineman is not dominating. There are plenty of All-Americans in College that were bad pros. 

Then the next question was why he thought it was ok to get into a fight with his HC on the sidelines. Then they ask him why the coaching staff thought he was healthy enough to play but sat himself out. Those are all legit concerns about this guy. Does he love football or is he all about himself? Another legit concern. 

 

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