More Draft Talk: Top 3 players you want and dont not want the Jets to draft

[#27TheDominator]

I have completely changed my philosophy over the last few minutes.  I want Haskins.  I was watching some draft videos and Charlie Casserly's analysis of Haskins said that he can challenge defenses horizonically.  Did he mispeak?  No!  He repeated it three times and explained what it meant.   If Haskins can create a new dimension we need to select him!

[RobR]

39 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

True.  He played mostly in the 0 (zero) position on DLine, but I'd be more interested in Oliver if we played a 4-3 and could line him up at 3-Technique.  That's really what he is.  Ed should be lined up between a Guard and Tackle (or maybe Center and Guard) and next to a fat run-stuffing NT.  Absent of that configuration the only other place I'd like him in a 3-4 is at DE....and we have both Leo and a re-signed $25M Henry Anderson in those 2 spots.

Question - How would you use Ed Oliver, where would you put him and what would your vision be for the DLine around him?

I would use Ed Oliver all over the place with an attacking style defense. You can play him under tackle, hand in the dirt end, stand up outside, and stand up inside. He also covered backs out of the backfield from the NG position in college. The sky is the limit with this guy.

The two places he will fail is at the zero and five tech. He is not a NT or strict DE in a 3-4 by any means. Good thing is Gregg Williams will put him in a place too succeed.

[Dcat]

6 hours ago, JiF said:

When was the last time the Jets took a TE in the 1st round?  Kyle Brady?   That was 25 years ago.  lol

what about frying pan hands? Becht. Blech!

And then there was Dustin.  

[jetstream23]

1 minute ago, RobR said:

I would use Ed Oliver all over the place with an attacking style defense. You can play him under tackle, hand in the dirt end, stand up outside, and stand up inside. He also covered backs out of the backfield from the NG position in college. The sky is the limit with this guy.

The two places he will fail is at the zero and five tech. He is not a NT or strict DE in a 3-4 by any means. Good thing is Gregg Williams will put him in a place too succeed.

Interesting.  I'd really think he could be 5 (3-4 DE).  Why don't you see it that way?  He shouldn't be asked to hold the edge vs. the run?

[Dcat]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What I’d like to see from the Jets in this draft is to show a little backbone and innovation. They’re a moribund franchise that nobody respects and I think we all thought that might change when we drafted the big, young QB. But it hasn’t, and that’s because the owner and GM are tools that could **** up a wet dream. Show some life. Don’t be sitting there at 9:30 tomorrow night mumbling about how “WethoughtQuinnenwasthebestplayerandwewereveryexcitedwhenhewasavailableand.” It’s boring. Nobody believes Maccagnan and nobody believes in Maccagnan and he’s a terrible spokesman for the franchise. Get out there at 3 and do something for the fans. Trade out. Draft Oliver. Draft Hockenson or DK Metcalf. Whatever. Don’t just sit there like they do every year and wait for other GMs to allow you to draft a guy they didn’t want, only to find out three or four years later why that scrub was available in the first place. Bottom line, don’t do Maccagnan stuff. Do whatever it was they did last year when they moved up for Darnold. Send Maccagnan to the West Coast while the few smart people in the building make some sh*t happen to move the team forward—not incrementally by drafting safeties and lumbering DEs—but by having some guts and putting guys on the roster who can play exciting football. Don’t be soft. Don’t be weak. Reach for the brass ******* ring for once in your life, Jets.

In other words, no Quentin Williams.

[Dcat]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What I’d like to see from the Jets in this draft is to show a little backbone and innovation. They’re a moribund franchise that nobody respects and I think we all thought that might change when we drafted the big, young QB. But it hasn’t, and that’s because the owner and GM are tools that could **** up a wet dream. Show some life. Don’t be sitting there at 9:30 tomorrow night mumbling about how “WethoughtQuinnenwasthebestplayerandwewereveryexcitedwhenhewasavailableand.” It’s boring. Nobody believes Maccagnan and nobody believes in Maccagnan and he’s a terrible spokesman for the franchise. Get out there at 3 and do something for the fans. Trade out. Draft Oliver. Draft Hockenson or DK Metcalf. Whatever. Don’t just sit there like they do every year and wait for other GMs to allow you to draft a guy they didn’t want, only to find out three or four years later why that scrub was available in the first place. Bottom line, don’t do Maccagnan stuff. Do whatever it was they did last year when they moved up for Darnold. Send Maccagnan to the West Coast while the few smart people in the building make some sh*t happen to move the team forward—not incrementally by drafting safeties and lumbering DEs—but by having some guts and putting guys on the roster who can play exciting football. Don’t be soft. Don’t be weak. Reach for the brass ******* ring for once in your life, Jets.

In other words, no Quentin Williams.

[RobR]

6 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Interesting.  I'd really think he could be 5 (3-4 DE).  Why don't you see it that way?  He shouldn't be asked to hold the edge vs. the run?

He'd be terrible as a 5 because he's not long enough. He'd be short for that position and you would be playing him out of place.

He's a disrupter at the next level because he is so quick off of the snap and he has those elite abilities.

[jetstream23]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What I’d like to see from the Jets in this draft is to show a little backbone and innovation. They’re a moribund franchise that nobody respects and I think we all thought that might change when we drafted the big, young QB. But it hasn’t, and that’s because the owner and GM are tools that could **** up a wet dream. Show some life. Don’t be sitting there at 9:30 tomorrow night mumbling about how “WethoughtQuinnenwasthebestplayerandwewereveryexcitedwhenhewasavailableand.” It’s boring. Nobody believes Maccagnan and nobody believes in Maccagnan and he’s a terrible spokesman for the franchise. Get out there at 3 and do something for the fans. Trade out. Draft Oliver. Draft Hockenson or DK Metcalf. Whatever. Don’t just sit there like they do every year and wait for other GMs to allow you to draft a guy they didn’t want, only to find out three or four years later why that scrub was available in the first place. Bottom line, don’t do Maccagnan stuff. Do whatever it was they did last year when they moved up for Darnold. Send Maccagnan to the West Coast while the few smart people in the building make some sh*t happen to move the team forward—not incrementally by drafting safeties and lumbering DEs—but by having some guts and putting guys on the roster who can play exciting football. Don’t be soft. Don’t be weak. Reach for the brass ******* ring for once in your life, Jets.

You want Josh Allen.  You just don't know it yet.

Hungry. QB hunter.  Close to the line of scrimmage.  Will get the Jets the ball back on the opponents 20 yard line.

[RobR]

27 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Interesting.  I'd really think he could be 5 (3-4 DE).  Why don't you see it that way?  He shouldn't be asked to hold the edge vs. the run?

Here is a good article on him. Be sure too watch the videos because it shows his insane athleticism.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/8/28/17737920/ed-oliver-houston-nfl-draft-2019

[RobR]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Interesting.  I'd really think he could be 5 (3-4 DE).  Why don't you see it that way?  He shouldn't be asked to hold the edge vs. the run?

Last video for you JS. Here is what he did as an 18yo True Freshman.

 

 

[Scoop24]

I hope Oliver lives up to Donald hype you guys projecting . Cause I don’t see it all . Still think he will be great player . 

[jetstream23]

24 minutes ago, RobR said:

Last video for you JS. Here is what he did as an 18yo True Freshman.

 

 

 

Thanks man.  Love the motor, love the tenacity, love the athleticism and scheme diversity......but I still have some concerns.  Maybe size doesn't matter anymore but would like to see him a little bigger (both taller and heavier).  My bigger concern is the level of competition.   They're playing Tulsa, Rice, East Carolina, etc. and I'm watching a guy like Josh Allen from Kentucky get 5 sacks against #18 Mississippi State, #10 Florida, and #12 Penn State.  I won't kill the pick if it's Oliver but this will be one of those Drafts that burns a hole in my memory as we watch the Top 3 to 5 defenders from this class over the next several years.  Simply by the way this Draft will unfold with 5 DLine/Edge guys going in the Top 10 there will be comparisons for a decade, very similar to how Baker, Darnold, Josh Allen and Josh Rosen will be linked in last year's QB class.

Thanks for sharing.  I certainly don't dislike him, I just obviously have a preference for Edge in this Draft.  It's really what's been lacking sense John Abraham IMO.  I've had enough of the Wilkersons, Richardsons, and Leos.  Need a real game changer, a difference maker on Defense......maybe that does turn out to be Ed.  I don't know.

 

Let's say the Jets draft Oliver, can you give me a front 7 alignment (or two) you think Gregg Williams would put out there?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Thanks man.  Love the motor, love the tenacity, love the athleticism and scheme diversity......but I still have some concerns.  Maybe size doesn't matter anymore but would like to see him a little bigger (both taller and heavier).  My bigger concern is the level of competition.   They're playing Tulsa, Rice, East Carolina, etc. and I'm watching a guy like Josh Allen from Kentucky get 5 sacks against #18 Mississippi State, #10 Florida, and #12 Penn State.  I won't kill the pick if it's Oliver but this will be one of those Drafts that burns a hole in my memory as we watch the Top 3 to 5 defenders from this class over the next several years.  Simply by the way this Draft will unfold with 5 DLine/Edge guys going in the Top 10 there will be comparisons for a decade, very similar to how Baker, Darnold, Josh Allen and Josh Rosen will be linked in last year's QB class.

Thanks for sharing.  I certainly don't dislike him, I just obviously have a preference for Edge in this Draft.  It's really what's been lacking sense John Abraham IMO.  I've had enough of the Wilkersons, Richardsons, and Leos.  Need a real game changer, a difference maker on Defense......maybe that does turn out to be Ed.  I don't know.

 

Let's say the Jets draft Oliver, can you give me a front 7 alignment (or two) you think Gregg Williams would put out there?

Whether it's Tulsa or Mississippi State, three guys is still three guys. In addition to playing him at nose tackle and never blitzing, the geniuses at Houston would sometimes put the ends in contain too so Oliver was literally the entire pass rush. The only other time I've ever seen a defense built so much on one player (a lot better obviously) was what Rex did with Revis in 2009.

[redlichtie]

14 hours ago, JiF said:

Typically at this point I'm dialed into the player I want badly.  This year has been a little more challenging than most because of the uncertainty of where the top 5 players will fall and the varying opinions of the top prospects.  So for the first time in a very long time, I'm not all in on one particular prospect vs. another.  Therefore, I've come up with my top 3 wants and my top 3 do not wants all under the assumption we stay at 3.  For fun; I'll also add my biggest top wants that can be had after round 1.

Top 3:

Ed Oliver - I think Ed Oliver it the best player in the draft.  He's an explosive all world athlete who produced out of position while in college and is going to give opposing OL's nightmares in the NFL.  Pairing him with Leo would create a very disruptive force on the interior of the DL.  Anderson-Oliver-Leo-Jenkins in the 4 man fronts could really wreak havoc or you could potentially run a Anderson-Leo-McClendon-Oliver and be even more dangerous at attacking the QB.

Josh Allen - IMO the most versatile player in the draft.  To have put up the sacks numbers he did, in the SEC, while dropping back in coverage 30% of his snaps is mind blowing.  The fact he can play the run, rush the passer and cover a TE down field makes him the biggest swiss army knife in the draft.  A guy like Greg Williams could move him around like a chess piece and keeping an opposing offense completely fixated on where he's lined up.  Williamson, Mosley, Allen and Jenkins would make a formidable LB'er core, if not one of the better units in the league.

TJ Hockenson - wait what?  A TE at #3 overall?  That's insane and I know it and I dont care.  He's the best non-QB offensive prospect in this draft.  He's a QB's best friend and can help the run game immensely.  I've seen him compared to Jason Witten, Travis Kelce and even some folks calling him the Gronk.  TE is becominging increasingly important to an offense each season.  Gase likes to run 2 TE sets.  The combo of Herndon and Hockenson could be deadly; think murderer and Gronk back in the day on those scumbags cheaters teams.  

Top 3 dont want:

Nick Bosa - the injury history is real and a huge concern because it's a bloodline thing.  His brother cant stay healthy too.  3 seasons into the NFL and he's only completed 1 full season.  I have HUGE concerns taking a player at #3 overall who's had 2 season ending injuries and one being a lingering type in the groin.  Those never fully heal.  Further, he's was just ok at rushing the passer.  He never put up big numbers and the other scary part of his game is that he doesnt contribute at all to the run game or anything else for that matter.  He's a one trick pony and if that trick gets figured out in the NFL; see Vic Beasley and the trash he's become.  

Quinnen Williams - one year wonder that disappeared on the biggest stage in the college playoffs.  While Quinnen was ok at rushing the passer at Alabama surrounded by all world talent, he's not going to be a pass rusher in the NFL.  He'll be a run stuffer and that's not the type of DT you take at #3 overall.  Quinnen might end up being a good to great player in the NFL but more in the mold of a clog in the line and ingulf the ball carrier rather than an attacking and pursuing the QB, which is what the Jets need and the real value of having the #3 overall pick.

Jonah Williams - he's a guard.  If you dont think reach is a real concern playing T in the NFL, than I got news for you...they rarely work.  You dont take Guards at #3 overall.  If we are going to reach for OL, I'd rather it be Jaawan Taylor...but even he's not worthy of the #3 overall pick.

Players I hope the Jets can draft at some point:

Deebo Samuel WR - dudes electric.  I'd love to see him be Sam's shiny new weapon.  Absolute big play waiting to happen.

Jalen Hurd WR - love his versatility and see him really being a force in the NFL

Darrell Henderson RB - game breaker depth at the RB position.

Yodny Cajuste OT - potential tackle in the 3rd round

Ben Banogu  Edge - potential mid round pass rush sleeper, solid athlete, quick first step.

Your list is pretty much exactly as mine. I wouldn’t loathe picking Bosa but want no part of Q or Jonah. I am increasingly of the view that Brian Burns, Sweat or Ferrell will be a better long term investment than possibly either Allen or Bosa. I really like Burns.

i also really like your additional players although i’d swap/add Stanley Morgan for Deebo, and Justice Hill for Henderson. If we do trade and get a 2nd rounder I want McCoy 

WANT

Oliver(agree, best prospect in the draft)

Burns

McCoy, Ford or Dillard

DO NOT WANT

Jonah W

Quinnen W

Metcalf

[mrcoops]

Want: Bosa, Oliver, Burns

Don't want: Allen, Metcalf, Gary

[talisaynon]

Oliver is a freaking beast 105 Sparq? Sign me up!

Too bad I have no faith in this franchise to make the right decisions. Dont be stupid Mac

[JustInFudge]

7 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Thanks man.  Love the motor, love the tenacity, love the athleticism and scheme diversity......but I still have some concerns.  Maybe size doesn't matter anymore but would like to see him a little bigger (both taller and heavier).  My bigger concern is the level of competition.   They're playing Tulsa, Rice, East Carolina, etc. and I'm watching a guy like Josh Allen from Kentucky get 5 sacks against #18 Mississippi State, #10 Florida, and #12 Penn State.  I won't kill the pick if it's Oliver but this will be one of those Drafts that burns a hole in my memory as we watch the Top 3 to 5 defenders from this class over the next several years.  Simply by the way this Draft will unfold with 5 DLine/Edge guys going in the Top 10 there will be comparisons for a decade, very similar to how Baker, Darnold, Josh Allen and Josh Rosen will be linked in last year's QB class.

Thanks for sharing.  I certainly don't dislike him, I just obviously have a preference for Edge in this Draft.  It's really what's been lacking sense John Abraham IMO.  I've had enough of the Wilkersons, Richardsons, and Leos.  Need a real game changer, a difference maker on Defense......maybe that does turn out to be Ed.  I don't know.

 

Let's say the Jets draft Oliver, can you give me a front 7 alignment (or two) you think Gregg Williams would put out there?

Anderson-Leo-McClendon-Oliver

Lee/Jenkins-Mosley-Williamson

Or

Anderson-Leo-Oliver-Jenkins

Lee/Luvu/Copeland-Mosley-Williamson

That's pretty nasty.

[RoadFan]

15 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Want: Offensive lineman

Don't Want: Defensive lineman

I have waivered a bit... but decided to go this route...

[mrcoops]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Anderson-Leo-McClendon-Oliver

Lee/Jenkins-Mosley-Williamson

Or

Anderson-Leo-Oliver-Jenkins

Lee/Luvu/Copeland-Mosley-Williamson

That's pretty nasty.

I've been giving this a lot of thought over the past couple of days.

I think we'd run a sort of hybrid 3-4, with Jenkins playing as a stand-up DE/OLB very close to the line on the strongside.

You'd essentially have 2 DTs in Oliver and Leo, with one lined up in the Center/Guard gap on the weakside (probably Oliver) and the other over the outside of the Guard on the strongside (probably Leo) - so no "pure" NT spot. Anderson would line up wider, on the weakside.

Your strongside ILB would have a lot of responsibility in that scheme, as he would have to play the inside run but also provide cover behind Jenkins on the outside. Fortunately, we just made Mosley the highest paid ILB in the game to take on just that level of responsibility. 

Williamson would be your weakside ILB, with Copeland/Luvu/draftee as the weakside OLB.

We'd also see even more of Adams close to the line on the strongside in this scheme.

I think this could really work, and Oliver would be a real load for opposing Centers and Guards to handle on the inside rush. Williams (Gregg that is) could also move him all over in different sets, to make the most of his athletic ability in passing situations.

[NoBowles]

In order:

Oliver

Hockenson

Bosa

 

Not going to put any do not want list becasue I don't want to root against them when they are inevitably picked

 

 

 

[Warfish]

1. TJ Hockenson (TE)

2. Garrett Bradbury (C)

3. Jalen Hurd (WR)

This is potentially how we build a powerhouse Offense for the duration of the Darnold rookie contract years.

And if Macc is smart, he can have all three AND a couple more 3rd rounders this year and maybe another 1st next year.

Darnold at QB

Bell at RB

Anderson, Enunwa, Hurd and Crowder at WR

Hockenson and Herndon at TE

And enough of a rebuilt O-line (for 2019) to be "good enough".  

That is my vision of how to not be the "same old Jets" the next 4 seasons.

[bitonti]

draft Ed Oliver, put him up against David Andrews week 3 and make TB12 re-consider retirement 

[Paradis]

21 hours ago, Paradis said:

Uhhhh I can tell you that. Anyone who’s watched a couple games could  

theres this thing call “the score”. ..

And When one team gets significantly ahead of the other team, well… That team starts to throw the ball on every down. Predictably so… In fact so predictably that the DTs can abandon their assignments, and ignore the run. They can aimlessly chase around quarterbacks all day because the other team is down by 40 points. 

 That’s how that happens. 

Nice @joenamathwouldn'tcry ... no reply to my mountain of logic. Just a vote down.

Bush league, my friend. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

6 hours ago, mrcoops said:

I've been giving this a lot of thought over the past couple of days.

I think we'd run a sort of hybrid 3-4, with Jenkins playing as a stand-up DE/OLB very close to the line on the strongside.

You'd essentially have 2 DTs in Oliver and Leo, with one lined up in the Center/Guard gap on the weakside (probably Oliver) and the other over the outside of the Guard on the strongside (probably Leo) - so no "pure" NT spot. Anderson would line up wider, on the weakside.

Your strongside ILB would have a lot of responsibility in that scheme, as he would have to play the inside run but also provide cover behind Jenkins on the outside. Fortunately, we just made Mosley the highest paid ILB in the game to take on just that level of responsibility. 

Williamson would be your weakside ILB, with Copeland/Luvu/draftee as the weakside OLB.

We'd also see even more of Adams close to the line on the strongside in this scheme.

I think this could really work, and Oliver would be a real load for opposing Centers and Guards to handle on the inside rush. Williams (Gregg that is) could also move him all over in different sets, to make the most of his athletic ability in passing situations.

You're trying to make this complicated. It's simple. A 3-technique on the open side of the line is the hardest defensive lineman to double block.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

5 hours ago, Paradis said:

Nice @joenamathwouldn'tcry ... no reply to my mountain of logic. Just a vote down.

Bush league, my friend. 

It's not worth responding to such ridiculous tripe.  Plays on a great team.  Negative.  Excels on a great team. Negative.  Excels in a short body of work.  Negative. Best defensive player on the consensus best program in college football.  Negative.   I guess 40% of the tackles, were made only with a big lead by Alabama.  Weak.

As such an expert of football, you well know that being behind at times causes the defense to go into a thing called a "prevent" defense.  In that type of defense, as I'm sure you also know, less players are sent in to rush the quarterback, and the defenders back off allowing more completions underneath and a higher completion average.  Guess that thought escaped you too.

The comment about "aimlessly following around the Quarterback" was priceless.  Kudos.  I got a good laugh about that one.

As for your mountain of evidence,  you do not cite one game, score, or instance where that was a truth.  Just generalities and platitudes.  I expect better from you.  Your "Mountain of Evidence" was a " Pile of Sh#t".  As you know, I rarely walk away from a dispute of facts or opinion, if there is a point to be made, and issues to be discussed.  In this case, you provided nothing more, than a "troll" and I didn't feel like wasting the time getting into it with you.  Comprende?  PS.,  it was a downvote, not a "buttfumble", my friend.  Enjoy the draft.

Enjoy Quinnen Williams, he's ours now.