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Why do you hate Leonard Williams?


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He’s not on an immediate HOF arc so folks want to trade a good player for a draft pick in the hope that the player we draft becomes a good player.  Jet fan logic.  Or rather, illogic. 

I don’t. He’s a great player 

He shagged my mom

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On 4/24/2019 at 9:39 PM, choon328 said:

I'm sure he'll have a bunch of hurries and QB hits. You don't allocate big money to defensive tackles that don't sack the QB. End of story

No ****ing shit. That’s why I said if he does good under Williams but apparently you see into the future and know he’s going to be a jag under Williams. 

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59 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

2015 First round was relatively weak, but the frustration lies in the fact he had a weak combine and it was entirely predictable he’d struggle as a pass rusher. Space eaters can be found in every round of every draft.

That plus he has better hair than me

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11 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I'm sure he'll have a bunch of hurries and QB hits. You don't allocate big money to defensive tackles that don't sack the QB. End of story

Maybe coincidental but when I watched some of his film coming out of college I thought his first step was a little slow. Maybe that's why he gets pressures but not sacks. He's a good player but certainly expendable! 

 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

The answer is probably yes. He won't be the highest paid player in the NFL but you build a team by resigning your good young players especially when you have control over your qb on a rookie deal. Mac has done a decent job at overpaying players but giving us lots of ways out of those contracts after a short stint in the case the player doesn't work out. We have been in good cap situations for the most part since he has been here. I trust that he could write up a decent contract for leo while also leaving room for us to get out of it if we need to

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

If you're in favor of giving Leo a new deal, then that's totally fine, but the bold is a complete myth around here.  Just go back and look at the insane volume of dead money the Jets have had on the cap nearly every year since Macc has arrived.  A willingness to eat a terrible contract you gave out doesn't make it a good one.  Sure, they've been able to get away with that each time, but that has more to do with all of the unused cap dollars they've had thanks to a complete lack of talent.

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57 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I've got no hate for him, and wouldn't be in a rush to trade him (although if the price were right, no one but Darnold is off limits).  With that said, the reality of the situation is he simply hasn't come to live up to the hype, whether it be the hype that came with him pre-draft, or the marketing job the Jets have tried to roll out surrounding him.  A good player no doubt, but when you're talking about going DT in the first round for the 4th time in 5 years, with 2 Pro Bowlers already on the roster, he better be truly elite to justify the pick, and he simply hasn't done that.

In truth, I think far more hate goes in the direction of Maccagnan for the pick, than Williams himself, as Macc's only really success pre-Darnold was ultimately a good but not great player at a non-premium position that was dead last on the list of Jets' needs when he took over.

This.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think its acceptable to be unhappy that his career arc is a lot closer to "good player" than "HOF player".  You hope for a lot more out of a top 10 pick.  But simultaneously I'm in no way going to advocate trading him now while his value is arguably at its lowest.  See what Gregg Williams can do to improve his stock, Then try to move him.

So let's hope he has a career year so you can trade him.

Makes sense...  

Actually wait...  that's a pretty stupid ******* idea.

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Because he’s not an interior double digit sack monster....that’s what you draft a DT that high to do...even Mo Wilk had double digit sacks twice...

And FTR I don’t hate Leo...but I guarantee that’s why some on this board don’t like him 

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1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

Who is a better choice then him at the top of the 2015 draft after 6?

Todd Gurley is a bigger game changer than Leo has been.  Marcus Peters is probably as good of a defender.  Melvin Gordon is probably about the same caliber player at a different position.

Remember, I said I like him, but has he been a difference maker?  That's what you expect at #6 (or #3 this year).  Is he even better than John Abraham was?  Leo is an excellent 3-4 lineman but he's not elite.....or at least he hasn't shown that he's elite yet.  Would you rather have Leo Williams or Vince Wilfork on your 3-4 DLine for a decade?

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I think the more interesting question is why Jets fans feel the constant need to lay out for millionaire athletes on their team who are marginal players relative to the rest of the league. Every team in the league has a player similar to or better than Leonard Williams. He’s a stout defensive lineman that occasionally gets some push on the QB. Go look at what Chris Jones does for the Chiefs, or Fletcher Cox does for the Eagles. Leonard was drafted to be like those guys and he’s not on the same planet as those dudes

The Jets defensive coaches weren’t on the same planet as the Chiefs or the Eagles.  

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1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

Who is a better choice then him at the top of the 2015 draft after 6?

I was hoping raiders were going to take williams leaving cooper for us.

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

2015 First round was relatively weak, but the frustration lies in the fact he had a weak combine and it was entirely predictable he’d struggle as a pass rusher. Space eaters can be found in every round of every draft.

Do you have any idea of the garbage Leo has to wade through to get to the QB in a 3-4, especially  when it is run by a moron for a HC?

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16 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Do you have any idea of the garbage Leo has to wade through to get to the QB in a 3-4, especially  when it is run by a moron for a HC?

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How the hell did we hire this guy and how is he so respected and highly regarded around the league? I still have no words for how atrocious he was. I just can’t. 

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2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t hate Leo, he’s a good player.

But the bottom line is the guy is probably going to want a contract in the $16 million a year range after this season.

Is he worth it? Would you give it to him?

If the Jets draft Quinnen Williams, after just re-signing Henry Anderson to a multi-year deal...I’d probably look to trade Leo if I could get a 2nd rounder.

Thats me.

He's good.  Seems like a good guy, no off the field stuff.  But not an 18 million dollar player.  Not the dominator i thought when the jets drafted him.  I dont blame the GM, that's who i would have taken.

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26 minutes ago, CTM said:

I was hoping raiders were going to take williams leaving cooper for us.

Me too.  But given how the draft played out i was very happy at the time.  I thought he would be richard Seymour, and that guy was a monster even without huge sack numbers

 

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The Jets aren't good enough to let very good players walk simply because those players are not "great."  If we were the Seahawks and in a position with so much talent that signing our franchise QB forces us to choose which of our Pro Bowl players we can't afford, then great.  But we're not.  Depending on how Leo plays this year I think we need to try to keep him and hope it's in the $15M per year range.

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49 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Remember, I said I like him, but has he been a difference maker?  That's what you expect at #6 (or #3 this year). 

You're more realistic than many but this myth that 6th overall selections are bonafide studs has to stop.

Here's the last 18....  Julio is very good but hardly a sure-fire are the hall of famer.  The rest run the spectrum from bust to good. 

If anything this list makes Macc look pretty damn good.

  • 2018  Quenten Nelson G Colts
  • 2017  Jamal Adams S Jets
  • 2016  Ronnie Stanley Ravens
  • 2015  Leonard Williams DT Jets
  • 2014  Jake Matthews T Falcons
  • 2013  Barkevious Mingo DE Browns
  • 2012  Morris Claiborne CB Dallas
  • 2011  Julio Jones WR Falcons
  • 2010  Russel Okung OT Seattle
  • 2009  Andre Smith OT Bengals
  • 2008  Vernon Gholston DE Jets
  • 2007  LaRon Landry S LSU (SAFETY THIS HIGH!!)
  • 2006  Vernon Davis TE SF
  • 2005  Pacman Jones Bengals
  • 2004  Kellen Winslow TE Browns
  • 2003  Johnathan Sullivan DT KC
  • 2002  Ryan Sims  DT KC
  • 2001  Richard Seymour DE NE
  • 2000  Corey Simon DT
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
     
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5 minutes ago, Pac said:

You're more realistic than many but this myth that 6th overall selections are bonafide studs has to stop.

Here's the last 18....  Julio is very good but hardly a sure-fire are the hall of famer.  The rest run the spectrum from bust to good. 

If anything this list makes Macc look pretty damn good.

  • 2018  Quenten Nelson G Colts
  • 2017  Jamal Adams S Jets
  • 2016  Ronnie Stanley Ravens
  • 2015  Leonard Williams DT Jets
  • 2014  Jake Matthews T Falcons
  • 2013  Barkevious Mingo DE Browns
  • 2012  Morris Claiborne CB Dallas
  • 2011  Julio Jones WR Falcons
  • 2010  Russel Okung OT Seattle
  • 2009  Andre Smith OT Bengals
  • 2008  Vernon Gholston DE Jets
  • 2007  LaRon Landry S LSU (SAFETY THIS HIGH!!)
  • 2006  Vernon Davis TE SF
  • 2005  Pacman Jones Bengals
  • 2004  Kellen Winslow TE Browns
  • 2003  Johnathan Sullivan DT KC
  • 2002  Ryan Sims  DT KC
  • 2001  Richard Seymour DE NE
  • 2000  Corey Simon DT
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
     

Good post.  Jamal Adams and Leo are arguably 2 of the 6 or 7 best taken in that list of 18.  Richard Seymour, Julio Jones and Quenton Nelson are definitely ahead IMO....but then it gets debatable. 

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Just now, jetstream23 said:

Good post.  Jamal Adams and Leo are arguably 2 of the 6 or 7 best taken in that list of 18.  Richard Seymour, Julio Jones and Quenton Nelson are definitely ahead IMO....but then it get debatable. 

See..  I knew you were more realistic than most.

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57 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Todd Gurley is a bigger game changer than Leo has been.  Marcus Peters is probably as good of a defender.  Melvin Gordon is probably about the same caliber player at a different position.

Remember, I said I like him, but has he been a difference maker?  That's what you expect at #6 (or #3 this year).  Is he even better than John Abraham was?  Leo is an excellent 3-4 lineman but he's not elite.....or at least he hasn't shown that he's elite yet.  Would you rather have Leo Williams or Vince Wilfork on your 3-4 DLine for a decade?

The Jets had two decent RBs on the roster already so drafting a RB wasn’t even a thought and Peters went 18th so he wasn’t considered a top guy. 

The point is the Jets made the right choice. 

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13 minutes ago, Pac said:

You're more realistic than many but this myth that 6th overall selections are bonafide studs has to stop.

Here's the last 18....  Julio is very good but hardly a sure-fire are the hall of famer.  The rest run the spectrum from bust to good. 

If anything this list makes Macc look pretty damn good.

  • 2018  Quenten Nelson G Colts
  • 2017  Jamal Adams S Jets
  • 2016  Ronnie Stanley Ravens
  • 2015  Leonard Williams DT Jets
  • 2014  Jake Matthews T Falcons
  • 2013  Barkevious Mingo DE Browns
  • 2012  Morris Claiborne CB Dallas
  • 2011  Julio Jones WR Falcons
  • 2010  Russel Okung OT Seattle
  • 2009  Andre Smith OT Bengals
  • 2008  Vernon Gholston DE Jets
  • 2007  LaRon Landry S LSU (SAFETY THIS HIGH!!)
  • 2006  Vernon Davis TE SF
  • 2005  Pacman Jones Bengals
  • 2004  Kellen Winslow TE Browns
  • 2003  Johnathan Sullivan DT KC
  • 2002  Ryan Sims  DT KC
  • 2001  Richard Seymour DE NE
  • 2000  Corey Simon DT
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
     

How do you look at that list and the one guy you try to attack is Julio Jones? 

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Pac: Jets fans who can’t understand the secret greatness of Leonard Williams are fools.

 

Also Pac: You know who’s really overrated is Julio Jones. He’s probably gonna squeak into the Hall of Fame, but just barely 

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7 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

The Jets had two decent RBs on the roster already so drafting a RB wasn’t even a thought and Peters went 18th so he wasn’t considered a top guy. 

The point is the Jets made the right choice. 

Agree 100% that it was the right choice, but I still stand by the fact that Leo (who was considered by many as the #1 prospect in that class) has still not lived up to expectations.  With Fletcher Cox and Aaron Donald in the NFC you'd think Leo could find a path to sniffing a Pro Bowl opportunity these days.

 

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2018 AFC Pro Bowl Interior lineman: Geno Atkins*, Cincinnati Bengals; Jurrell Casey*, Tennessee Titans; Cameron Heyward, Pittsburgh Steelers; Kyle Williams, Buffalo Bills (sub for Casey); Brandon Williams, Baltimore Ravens (sub for Atkins)

 

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1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Agree 100% that is was the right choice, but I still stand by the fact that Leo (who was considered by many as the #1 prospect in that class) has still not lived up to expectations.  With Fletcher Cox and Aaron Donald in the NFC you'd think Leo could find a path to sniffing a Pro Bowl opportunity these days.

He definitely hasn’t lived up to expectations but who gives a fuck. He’s a good player and getting rid of him would be stupid. 

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1 minute ago, New York Mick said:

He definitely hasn’t lived up to expectations but who gives a ****. He’s a good player and getting rid of him would be stupid. 

We agree there.  The Jets aren't good enough to get rid of any above average players.  The question with Leo will be cost/benefit and what kind of contract he's looking for.

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