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Why do you hate Leonard Williams?

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21 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 


And he won’t get that....from us. You don’t give DT’s that 2nd contract, you draft DT’s and hopefully trade them for value before that rookie contract is up. If we get a 2nd for him, which given how many went in the 1st tonight is a real possibility, then we essentially keep playing high value DT’s at a low cost and parlay them into 2nd round value when we’re done with them. The only mistake would be to pay Leo his 2nd contract after drafting Quinnen.


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This is brilliant.  Leo should be on the blocks now.  Let’s move on. 

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Ummm...because we needed to draft Quinnen Williams to replace him?

j/k

Don't hate Leo, but his failing to 'rise to the top' so to say hasn't helped.

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58 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Is it possible that an interior defensive lineman is not going to excel at defensive end? I'd like to see a year of Leo playing next to Q on the interior. Todd Bowles loved to play people out of position. 

I can't wait to hear why it'll be Gregg Williams fault when they can't play all 6 of their interior DL "in position".

It's highly unlikely Leo and Quinnen would ever be playing next to each other.  If they stick to the 3-4, they'll both be playing 3-4 DE (with Anderson riding the bench as a result), unless they try to laughably force either one out there as a NT.  Or they could switch to the 4-3, in which case they'll have a plethora of DTs and absolutely no one on the roster capable of playing 4-3 DE.

Bottom line, none of those options really make any sense, and the Quinnen pick makes trading away Leo the only logical solution unless they want to start off another round of the same fiasco they just pulled a couple of years ago at this very position.

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25 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 


And he won’t get that....from us. You don’t give DT’s that 2nd contract, you draft DT’s and hopefully trade them for value before that rookie contract is up. If we get a 2nd for him, which given how many went in the 1st tonight is a real possibility, then we essentially keep playing high value DT’s at a low cost and parlay them into 2nd round value when we’re done with them. The only mistake would be to pay Leo his 2nd contract after drafting Quinnen.


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The bold might make sense for sustainability of a successful team (although I'd still argue against investing that much in a position that you're planning to handle that way).  However, when you have a roster full of holes that haven't been addressed for years and you can't field a competitive roster, constantly buying extremely high and selling lower on a non-premium position is a formula for failure.

Leo certainly needs to be traded now, because the Quinnen pick makes it a necessity, but that still doesn't make it in any way a good move.

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We're trending to be like $30M under the cap in 2019 (again). Overpaying is about the last thing Jets fans should worry about right now. We can easily afford to keep Leo this year and if he shows up, tag him and make sure it's a trend and not an outlier before making a long term decision.

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I don't hate Williams. I just think for a player taken so high, his numbers are disappointing.

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Think the lack of any sort of pass rush has hurt him although he has gotten all sorts of QB pressures.  Just my own personal opinion I think he's close to have a breakout year.  Then we can sign him or decide to move on.  There are worst places to be. 

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All I can say is that we’ve just spent #3 overall pick in the Draft to replace him.

The Jets have Drafted FIVE Defensive Tackles since 2011. This sh*t is getting old.

Mo Wilkerson.

Quentin Coples

Sheldon Richardson.

Leonard Williams.

Quinnen Williams.

2020?

 

 

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On 4/24/2019 at 9:45 PM, New York Mick said:

No ******* sh*t. That’s why I said if he does good under Williams but apparently you see into the future and know he’s going to be a jag under Williams. 

I guess I can see the future. Who knew?

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He's a solid player who would probably look AND play better if he had legit edge rushers around him. You cannot expect a 315 lb guy to live in the backfield. 

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4 minutes ago, Barton said:

He's a solid player who would probably look AND play better if he had legit edge rushers around him. You cannot expect a 315 lb guy to live in the backfield. 

It’s coming 

26365BD1-EC13-4ADF-929D-1B85372DD13E.jpeg

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I have news for you. You can actually criticize someone or their performance AND not hate them okay? Its irrational to say you hate someone when you don't even know them or in some cases, even met them! Think about it.

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Looking back that first round had some total busts. I realllly wanted Fowler, Mariota, or Cooper.

Leo is... fine -- speaking for myself I just expected more, not even sacks, just a consistent tough presence on the line. It's a perceived lack of pressure coupled with no sacks that gets people upset.

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50 minutes ago, Barton said:

He's a solid player who would probably look AND play better if he had legit edge rushers around him. You cannot expect a 315 lb guy to live in the backfield. 

The edge rushers we who have drafted instead of him?

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On 4/24/2019 at 8:55 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

I think its acceptable to be unhappy that his career arc is a lot closer to "good player" than "HOF player".  You hope for a lot more out of a top 10 pick.  But simultaneously I'm in no way going to advocate trading him now while his value is arguably at its lowest.  See what Gregg Williams can do to improve his stock, Then try to move him.

You wish for HoF arc for a top 10 pick. You hope that they will be a 10 year starter. Thats all you ever hope for from you your first three picks. If you can hit on your top 3 picks each year, you hope that 1 in 5 of the garbage round 4-7 stick. Thats how you build a good team. 

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1 hour ago, Barton said:

He's a solid player who would probably look AND play better if he had legit edge rushers around him. You cannot expect a 315 lb guy to live in the backfield. 

My man big Kris Jenkins lived in the backfield. Blowing up double and triple teams. That's what Leonard Williams should be doing. Great players beat double teams. I'm not even sure if he can beat his man 1 on 1

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2 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

My man big Kris Jenkins lived in the backfield. Blowing up double and triple teams. That's what Leonard Williams should be doing. Great players beat double teams. I'm not even sure if he can beat his man 1 on 1

when he wasn't injured...which was a lot.

He's no Kris Jenkins but he at least he has played most of the games.

Football is a game of balance. One inside guy alone is not really going to do much because that's where they can apply the most bodies against you. The Jets have had really nobody to worry about beyond him inside. And they have nobody scary outside, so, what are the expectations: Klecko? Reggie White? Anyone good?? Well you got a body. A body who needs like 8 additional people around him to have any impact. At least you have the surrounding talent around him...hahahahahahaha

This Jets team is full of laughs...

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3 minutes ago, phill1c said:

when he wasn't injured...which was a lot.

He's no Kris Jenkins but he at least he has played most of the games.

Football is a game of balance. One inside guy alone is not really going to do much because that's where they can apply the most bodies against you. The Jets have had really nobody to worry about beyond him inside. And they have nobody scary outside, so, what are the expectations: Klecko? Reggie White? Anyone good?? Well you got a body. A body who needs like 8 additional people around him to have any impact. At least you have the surrounding talent around him...hahahahahahaha

This Jets team is full of laughs...

Valid points. However a top 6 pick should be able to beat double teams and get to the qb. Otherwise it was a stupid pick. He's an average player. And we just made the same mistake again this year with Q. I'm sure he COULD be a good player but he will never have 10+ sack  seasons. Dts rarely do. And to me,  the value (#3 overall)  will never  match the expected production.

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No hate. More like displeasure. Everyone thinks he's good but what does he do that's good? Somebody please school me. He can't stop the run, can't stunt, can't beat an O-lineman with speed or power, he doesn't hustle, and gives up on plays. He's just nonchalant. I would be pleased if dude was at least disruptive but he can't even disrupt a little girl's tea party. Steve McLendon is less talented but always hustle and never gives up on a play.

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Leos technique is still pretty bad.  He also doesn't have great 'get off' skills.  He has great athletic skill and speed for a guy that size (that shows up when he is in pursuit for instance), but he doesn't usually beat his guy that often b/c of the lack of pass rush moves.  Worse, he is moved effortlessly by double teams and the motor is a bit suspect at times.

I think his motivation isn't there atm, or maybe he has an undisclosed injury, but either way he's been bad this season.

 

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What can I say he’s not going to be a Jet in 2020, and I say good. His replacement is on the roster all be it injured. No more resources on a 3-4 run stuffers. Money needs to be spent on the Oline.

If we want to become a modern NFL team it’s all about the Offence and protecting the QB.

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On 4/24/2019 at 5:53 PM, New York Mick said:

I don’t and the bigger question for the people that hate him. Who do you think they should of drafted in 2015?  RB Gurley is the only one in the top of the draft worth taking over him and they already had the two headed Chris. 

The answer was and is Todd Gurley. Doesn’t matter that he’s recently had knee issues - at the time we needed a spark on offense/run game and Todd Gurley IMO puts Fitz and Marshall into the playoffs in 2015 and who knows how far they roll. 

Silly question. Gurley. 

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Because he's not as good as he should be. I remember the draft he was getting 'best player in the draft' labels and 'game changing player' and all that jazz, its never materialised on the field, and at this point I don't think it ever will.

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3 hours ago, Paradis said:

The answer was and is Todd Gurley. Doesn’t matter that he’s recently had knee issues - at the time we needed a spark on offense/run game and Todd Gurley IMO puts Fitz and Marshall into the playoffs in 2015 and who knows how far they roll. 

Silly question. Gurley. 

But read the board. You don’t draft RBs in the first round and you definitely don’t draft them in the top 10. RBs are as useless as SS in modern football and should only be drafted in later rounds or picked up off the scrap pile.

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1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

But read the board. You don’t draft RBs in the first round and you definitely don’t draft them in the top 10. RBs are as useless as SS in modern football and should only be drafted in later rounds or picked up off the scrap pile.

That actually changed over the last 10 years. It may have been a period of crap running backs like Trent Richardson that helped make that opinion common. Offense has become so tilted in favor of defense in this league that I don’t think that’s necessarily true about running backs anymore but they better be HOF potential like Saquan.

It’s still a tough position to draft high because of the option of using RBs by committee, which became more popular, and their shortens careers compared to other positions 

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12 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

That actually changed over the last 10 years. It may have been a period of crap running backs like Trent Richardson that helped make that opinion common. Offense has become so tilted in favor of defense in this league that I don’t think that’s necessarily true about running backs anymore but they better be HOF potential like Saquan.

It’s still a tough position to draft high because of the option of using RBs by committee, which became more popular, and their shortens careers compared to other positions 

Leo was drafted 2015 and were talking about who should of been drafted. Paradis said Gurley. 

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5 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Leo was drafted 2015 and were talking about who should of been drafted. Paradis said Gurley. 

I saw that. I was just talking about how the perception of drafting RBs high shifted back and forth over the last 5-10 years. 

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5 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I saw that. I was just talking about how the perception of drafting RBs high shifted back and forth over the last 5-10 years. 

I was wondering who posters thought we should of drafted instead of Leo. The Adam’s draft is easy because the team needed a QB and Mahomes is killing it. 

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18 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

I was wondering who posters thought we should of drafted instead of Leo. The Adam’s draft is easy because the team needed a QB and Mahomes is killing it. 

I would have drafted Beasley. Not the best prospect but a pass rusher. I was still iffy about running backs that high in 2015. I considered Gurley because we needed offense but that whole high 1st on a RB stigma when we needed a pass rusher, made me lean towards Beasley. 

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4 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I would have drafted Beasley. Not the best prospect but a pass rusher. I was still iffy about running backs that high in 2015. I considered Gurley because we needed offense but that whole high 1st on a RB stigma when we needed a pass rusher, made me lean towards Beasley. 

I wanted Scherff and got murdered for it but he was drafted one spot ahead anyway. 

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On 4/25/2019 at 3:05 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

We'd have to pay him $16M or give him a massive extension for that privilege.  Even if he has a big year under Williams, is he worth that kind of coin?

Not sure where this $16m is coming from. His agent may try to demand that, but that isn’t the same as getting it.

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