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Takeaways from this draft so far


T0mShane
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10 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

I think that you are right on point with everything except this.....maybe.  As I mentioned in another thread, after the Jets there were no trades either until pick 10. Is it possible that team figured out that they had no urgency to trade up that high?

Schefter reported a few times tonight that the Jets were receiving offers and were sitting on offers. Hard to believe that none of those offers weren’t significant enough to consider. 

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17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

1. There is a gulf between what NFL teams are doing and what the people that cover those teams are reporting on. Insider “access” has become a highly managed, self-contained industry whereby the NFL controls what “news” is distributed, when it gets out, and how. If you’re not Schefter or Rapoport, you’re frozen out entirely. The draft media, specifically, is a bunch of self-appointed bloggers who are almost not worth paying attention to. 

2. Quinnen Williams is a fine player who does nothing to help Sam Darnold or the Jets. He doesn’t make the product appreciably better, and his presence here should presage the end of Leonard Williams’ underwhelming time on the roster because there’s no reason to keep both of them, especially when you have to pay one of them $17 mil per after this season. Maccagnan did *exactly this* four years ago with Sheldon and Leonard and he thinks he’s going to get away with it again. 

3. Maccagnan will skate, at least publicly, because Dave Gettleman bailed them out with a catastrophic draft night. The Giants train wreck is set to be a national sports story until Gettleman is tossed.

4. The ESPN telecast was a mothet****ing nightmare from start to finish. From Trey Wingo’s screaming, weird opening monologue, to Booger McFarland reminding everyone how awful the Monday Night Football telecast was, to relegating Schefter to a side screen propping up Mort, it was awful. The lowlight, however, was the fifteen minute vignette where they took turns apologizing for and explaining away Jeffrey Simmons beating the sh*t out of a woman lying on the ground. This segment was so inexcusable and obtuse that someone needs to be outed for producing it. At one point, Wingo even says that the woman on the ground had a “history” with Simmons’ sister, as though she had it coming. There’s a reason ESPN was so invested in covering for Simmons and someone needs to find out that reason. An absolute disgrace. Maybe Mushnick or Marchand can take a day off from dick-riding Francesa to actually do some reporting on an actual sports media story.

5. Maccagnan saying that he’s going to try to trade up into the second round is an admission that he knows he ****ed up in the first round. We’ll never know what the offers were to trade down from 3, but chances are good that Maccagnan choked and took the chicken exit to cover his own ass. It was reminiscent of Tannenbaum talking about the “mini-draft” after nuking one of his draft classes, referring to the UDFA signing period. 

Agree entirely with points 1, 4,  and some of the rest, but point #2 is wrong, and to put it succinctly, entirely misses the point. 

The only way the QW pick ends up being a big success is if his presence helps Leo become the player we want him to be. The idea is you put them side by side and you expect one of them to occasionally get doubled and the other one to do his thing. If they can help each other succeed and feed off of one another, it can work. 

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34 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

1. There is a gulf between what NFL teams are doing and what the people that cover those teams are reporting on. Insider “access” has become a highly managed, self-contained industry whereby the NFL controls what “news” is distributed, when it gets out, and how. If you’re not Schefter or Rapoport, you’re frozen out entirely. The draft media, specifically, is a bunch of self-appointed bloggers who are almost not worth paying attention to. 

Suggest you try the Bleacher Report live coverage on YT. Miller and Rogers were right on most of the picks outside of the Giants and I genuinely think Lefkoe is a rising star (have met a few times through work and found him to be really well prepared and sincerely nice too). Also, if you are impatient they cover the picks as they happen and were a few minutes ahead of TV the whole night. I had ESPN on the TV muted, with the BR guys on the laptop doing audio and enjoyed the first round.

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1 minute ago, ryu79 said:

Suggest you try the Bleacher Report live coverage on YT. Miller and Rogers were right on most of the picks outside of the Giants and I genuinely think Lefkoe is a rising star. Also, if you are impatient they cover the picks as they happen and were a few minutes ahead of TV the whole night. I had ESPN on the TV muted, with the BR guys on the laptop doing audio and enjoyed the first round.

Haha no. No. 

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Just now, Beerfish said:

It worked so beautifully with mo wilk shel rich and leo.  The jets are going to have the best two run stopping 6 sack DTs in the league.  so what.  The issue is not specifically about Q Williams who will be a good player.  It's doing what he did before and failing to address important holes on this team.  Frig he used a 3rf rounder on another Dt last year.  That appears to be a totally wasted pick after one year.

But Mo Wilk and Sheldon isn't QW. We don't know that QW will merely be a run-stopper. 

IMO, this is a false narrative. Not all defensive linemen are created equally. 

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Just now, slimjasi said:

But Mo Wilk and Sheldon isn't QW. We don't know that QW will merely be a run-stopper. 

IMO, this is a false narrative. Not all defensive linemen are created equally. 

Just how many times do we have to hear this?

Oh Shel is not mo ...oh leo is not shel....just keep picking dts forever and after they fail just say the new guy is the real good player and the rest were crap.

 

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18 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Agree entirely with points 1, 4,  and some of the rest, but point #2 is wrong, and to put it succinctly, entirely misses the point. 

The only way the QW pick ends up being a big success is if his presence helps Leo become the player we want him to be. The idea is you put them side by side and you expect one of them to occasionally get doubled and the other one to do his thing. If they can help each other succeed and feed off of one another, it can work. 

That doesn't work at all in reality.  The either don't play next to each other in a 3-4, or have no one to actually play DE in a 4-3.

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5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is the hope—that a third overall pick can help salvage a mediocre sixth overall pick—but it just highlights that you ****ed up that sixth overall pick. Leonard is what he is, and what he’s always been in the pros and in college. There is no secret version of Leonard Williams waiting to be unearthed

See, again - When you guys write that the Jets f*cked up by taking Williams at #6 overall, that just doesn't seem reasonable or fair to me. Look at the top 10 from 2015. Who should the Jets have taken? The only guy in the first round who I can find who clearly would have been a better pick is Gurley (taken 10th overall). 

Also, players develop. They get better. Happens all the time. 

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2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Just how many times do we have to hear this?

Oh Shel is not mo ...oh leo is not shel....just keep picking dts forever and after they fail just say the new guy is the real good player and the rest were crap.

 

We are talking about three guys, lol.  Sort of a small sample size. I think a lot of folks are suffering from severe recency bias. Also, I genuinely don't think MO or Sheldon are great comparisons to QW. Leo is the best comparison. 

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2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Yeah, there were teams that reportedly wanted to trade up into the top 10. None did. You're a smart guy, you ever wonder why the Raiders/Bucs didn't jump at these great offers being thrown around by the Skins/Bengals/Bills?

Clearly there wasn't enough interest in moving up. If the Skins had given the Raiders/Bucs a huge haul for their pick then I could the outrage, but you are losing your collective sh!t without knowing what Macc was offered. 

You may now proceed with your rants. 

It’s entirely possible Maccagnan never got a real offer to move down and I acknowledge that, however unlikely it seems based on Schefter’s reporting. 

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4 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

That doesn't work at all in reality.  The either don't play next to each other in a 3-4, or have no one to actually play DE in a 4-3.

I guarantee you that GW will have those guys playing next to each other on the field. 

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45 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

1. There is a gulf between what NFL teams are doing and what the people that cover those teams are reporting on. Insider “access” has become a highly managed, self-contained industry whereby the NFL controls what “news” is distributed, when it gets out, and how. If you’re not Schefter or Rapoport, you’re frozen out entirely. The draft media, specifically, is a bunch of self-appointed bloggers who are almost not worth paying attention to. 

2. Quinnen Williams is a fine player who does nothing to help Sam Darnold or the Jets. He doesn’t make the product appreciably better, and his presence here should presage the end of Leonard Williams’ underwhelming time on the roster because there’s no reason to keep both of them, especially when you have to pay one of them $17 mil per after this season. Maccagnan did *exactly this* four years ago with Sheldon and Leonard and he thinks he’s going to get away with it again. 

3. Maccagnan will skate, at least publicly, because Dave Gettleman bailed them out with a catastrophic draft night. The Giants train wreck is set to be a national sports story until Gettleman is tossed.

4. The ESPN telecast was a mothet****ing nightmare from start to finish. From Trey Wingo’s screaming, weird opening monologue, to Booger McFarland reminding everyone how awful the Monday Night Football telecast was, to relegating Schefter to a side screen propping up Mort, it was awful. The lowlight, however, was the fifteen minute vignette where they took turns apologizing for and explaining away Jeffrey Simmons beating the sh*t out of a woman lying on the ground. This segment was so inexcusable and obtuse that someone needs to be outed for producing it. At one point, Wingo even says that the woman on the ground had a “history” with Simmons’ sister, as though she had it coming. There’s a reason ESPN was so invested in covering for Simmons and someone needs to find out that reason. An absolute disgrace. Maybe Mushnick or Marchand can take a day off from dick-riding Francesa to actually do some reporting on an actual sports media story.

5. Maccagnan saying that he’s going to try to trade up into the second round is an admission that he knows he ****ed up in the first round. We’ll never know what the offers were to trade down from 3, but chances are good that Maccagnan choked and took the chicken exit to cover his own ass. It was reminiscent of Tannenbaum talking about the “mini-draft” after nuking one of his draft classes, referring to the UDFA signing period. 

Just curious what you didn’t like about giants 3 picks to far? I personally would have waited to draft a better qb prospect next yr, in top five. And we all know, Eli moving even slower, without Odell, Will asure them a top five pick. More likely a top 3.. but now they can’t draft another qb next yr 💁‍♂️

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s entirely possible Maccagnan never got a real offer to move down and I acknowledge that, however unlikely it seems based on Schefter’s reporting. 

All depends on what the "real offer" was. Haskins slipped all the way to 15 and no one traded up into the top 5. So, if there were real offers being made, the Jets are likely not the only team who didn't love the value being offered. 

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45 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

1. There is a gulf between what NFL teams are doing and what the people that cover those teams are reporting on. Insider “access” has become a highly managed, self-contained industry whereby the NFL controls what “news” is distributed, when it gets out, and how. If you’re not Schefter or Rapoport, you’re frozen out entirely. The draft media, specifically, is a bunch of self-appointed bloggers who are almost not worth paying attention to. 

2. Quinnen Williams is a fine player who does nothing to help Sam Darnold or the Jets. He doesn’t make the product appreciably better, and his presence here should presage the end of Leonard Williams’ underwhelming time on the roster because there’s no reason to keep both of them, especially when you have to pay one of them $17 mil per after this season. Maccagnan did *exactly this* four years ago with Sheldon and Leonard and he thinks he’s going to get away with it again. 

3. Maccagnan will skate, at least publicly, because Dave Gettleman bailed them out with a catastrophic draft night. The Giants train wreck is set to be a national sports story until Gettleman is tossed.

4. The ESPN telecast was a mothet****ing nightmare from start to finish. From Trey Wingo’s screaming, weird opening monologue, to Booger McFarland reminding everyone how awful the Monday Night Football telecast was, to relegating Schefter to a side screen propping up Mort, it was awful. The lowlight, however, was the fifteen minute vignette where they took turns apologizing for and explaining away Jeffrey Simmons beating the sh*t out of a woman lying on the ground. This segment was so inexcusable and obtuse that someone needs to be outed for producing it. At one point, Wingo even says that the woman on the ground had a “history” with Simmons’ sister, as though she had it coming. There’s a reason ESPN was so invested in covering for Simmons and someone needs to find out that reason. An absolute disgrace. Maybe Mushnick or Marchand can take a day off from dick-riding Francesa to actually do some reporting on an actual sports media story.

5. Maccagnan saying that he’s going to try to trade up into the second round is an admission that he knows he ****ed up in the first round. We’ll never know what the offers were to trade down from 3, but chances are good that Maccagnan choked and took the chicken exit to cover his own ass. It was reminiscent of Tannenbaum talking about the “mini-draft” after nuking one of his draft classes, referring to the UDFA signing period. 

It’s truly mind boggling that for months on end Macc stated he was determined to trade back. Yet he folds and takes what will ultimately be Leo’s replacement because Leo has been average at best. Even if QW turns out to be a stud, it was an asinine pick. We could have gotten a very good CB or edge player later in the draft at position of need AND 2-3 picks in addition to solidify the OL. QW is a hyped up Leo . 

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