slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 16 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Sometimes teams become the victim of circumstance in the draft where it’s just a weak class and you get cornered into drafting a guy that doesn’t help your team that much. When you’re a GM who goes through four draft classes and your team is still 4-12, the circumstance is you. Haha, well Macc has been a bad GM. BUT, IMO, his failing has NOT been with his first round picks. His first rounds have (mostly) been good (Lee being the obvious exception). A lot of this board (yourself included) seems obsessed with bashing Adams (one of our best players) and Leo (a solid starter), but the real issue with Macc has been his late round drafting. We have almost no good players from his drafts who were taken after the first round. Herndon, Quincy (edit: Q was an Idzik pick!) who else? THAT is where Macc daddy has let this franchise down and sh*t the proverbial bed. The 1st round picks, as usual, get WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much attention. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, T0mShane said: It’s entirely possible Maccagnan never got a real offer to move down and I acknowledge that, however unlikely it seems based on Schefter’s reporting. I assume he got real offers, the question is whether those offers justified moving down to 15. I am disappointed we didn't trade down, but if we gave away 3 2nds to go from 6 to 3, I couldn't see Macc taking less (or close) to drop down farther. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said: I assume he got real offers, the question is whether those offers justified moving down to 15. I am disappointed we didn't trade down, but if we gave away 3 2nds to go from 6 to 3, I couldn't see Macc taking less (or close) to drop down farther. The bolded is the only question that matters, and unfortunately, something we will probably never know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindOverMatter Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said: Just curious what you didn’t like about giants 3 picks to far? I personally would have waited to draft a better qb prospect next yr, in top five. And we all know, Eli moving even slower, without Odell, Will asure them a top five pick. More likely a top 3.. but now they can’t draft another qb next yr ?♂️ Jones at 6 seemed like a stretch at best and I like Jones. Lawrence was meh when they could have kept Snacks last year, and Baker is a decent corner but why trade up for a corner at the top of the 1st when it seems like a run on corners is bound to happen in the 2nd? Just seemed like poor managing of the flow of the draft, all my Giants friends hated it too, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TokyoJetsFan Posted April 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 26, 2019 Mac should just STFU about his wanting to trade. He sounds desperate, so teams low balled him in the first round. Now he says he wants to trade up so teams will try to rip him off. Just work the phones and dont say anything because you look like an idiot announcing it ahead of time and then nothing happens. 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Haha, well Macc has been a bad GM. BUT, IMO, his failing has NOT been with his first round picks. His first rounds have (mostly) been good (Lee being the obvious exception). A lot of this board (yourself included) seems obsessed with bashing Adams (one of our best players) and Leo (a solid starter), but the real issue with Macc has been his late round drafting. We have almost no good players from his drafts who were taken after the first round. Herndon, Quincy, who else? THAT is where Macc daddy has let this franchise down and sh*t the proverbial bed. The 1st round picks, as usual, get WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much attention. Enunwa was an Idzik pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said: Other than your arbitrary statement, how exactly would this work? The 4-3 with no competent DEs, or the 3-4 with one forced to play NT (and thus, out of position)? (A) GW plays a litany of different fronts, and frankly, I have no idea who he deems worthy of being a 4-3 DE. (B) There is a long way to go before opening day. I would presume that, if the Jets don't think they have a competent 4-3 DE on the roster, they will add one between now and 5 months from now. (C) Macc explicitly told the media tonight that they plan to play QW and Leo together. (As a result, I think we can safely assume that GW has a basic idea of what he wants to do) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, slimjasi said: . His first rounds have (mostly) been good (Lee being the obvious exception). A lot of this board (yourself included) seems obsessed with bashing Adams (one of our best players) and Leo (a solid starter), but the real issue with Macc has been his late round drafting. We have almost no good players from his drafts who were taken after the first round. Counterpoint: his first round picks only appear good relative to the rest of his draft picks, which have been abysmal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, slimjasi said: Haha, well Macc has been a bad GM. BUT, IMO, his failing has NOT been with his first round picks. His first rounds have (mostly) been good (Lee being the obvious exception). A lot of this board (yourself included) seems obsessed with bashing Adams (one of our best players) and Leo (a solid starter), but the real issue with Macc has been his late round drafting. We have almost no good players from his drafts who were taken after the first round. Herndon, Quincy, who else? THAT is where Macc daddy has let this franchise down and sh*t the proverbial bed. The 1st round picks, as usual, get WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much attention. Macc didn't even draft Enunwa. His 1st round picks are criticized by some, but far from most, as they are vastly overrated by the majority simply because of how awful his other picks are by comparison. Aside from Darnold, every one of those picks have been nothing more than "solid" players at non-premium positions that were not needs for the Jets, ultimately resulting in little-to-no actual team improvement resulting in those picks. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Enunwa was an Idzik pick. Bingo! Only furthering my point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 15 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said: Just curious what you didn’t like about giants 3 picks to far? Jones is a wretched prospect at QB, Lawrence plays the one position where the Giants already have a good young player and they traded up for a CB despite the fact that literally every top CB prospect was falling into round two, where the Giants could have drafted one at 2.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Beerfish Posted April 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 26, 2019 McCagnans use of Draft Value chart capital in his drafting career. Defensive Tackles: 4050 points (5 picks) Quarterbacks: 2678 points (3 picks) Safeties: 2110 points (2 picks) Inside Linebackers: 850 points (1 pick) Wide receivers: 761 points (4 picks) Outside Linebackers: 355 points (2 picks) Tight Ends: 111 points (2 picks) Cornerbacks: 99 points (4 picks) Offensive Line: 58 points (2 picks) Running backs: 25.2 points (2 picks) Defensive End: 18.6 points (1 pick) Punter: 1 point (1 pick) The guy has no clue at all. 3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, slimjasi said: (A) GW plays a litany of different fronts, and frankly, I have no idea who he deems worthy of being a 4-3 DE. (B) There is a long way to go before opening day. I would presume that, if the Jets don't think they have a competent 4-3 DE on the roster, they will add one between now and 5 months from now. (C) Macc explicitly told the media tonight that they plan to play QW and Leo together. (As a result, I think we can safely assume that GW has a basic idea of what he wants to do) None of this suggests they will be playing next to each other regularly. In all likelihood, they will be playing on opposite sides of the line in the base D. Unless of course it goes along with your suggestion that Maccagnan is such an idiot he spent the entire FA period building a 3-4 roster, and will now try to redo it all for a 4-3 strictly in an attempt to justify a draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoot-Face Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 39 minutes ago, T0mShane said: 1. The picture of Jones. Good god. 2. The replies. Did the Giants just draft a young Bruce Campbell? 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said: Unless of course it goes along with your suggestion that Maccagnan is such an idiot he spent the entire FA period building a 3-4 roster, and will now try to redo it all for a 4-3 strictly in an attempt to justify a draft pick. Gregg Williams is a mastermind who will run the 5-2-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Beerfish said: McCagnans use of Draft Value chart capital in his drafting career. Defensive Tackles: 4050 points (5 picks) Quarterbacks: 2678 points (3 picks) Safeties: 2110 points (2 picks) Inside Linebackers: 850 points (1 pick) Wide receivers: 761 points (4 picks) Outside Linebackers: 355 points (2 picks) Tight Ends: 111 points (2 picks) Cornerbacks: 99 points (4 picks) Offensive Line: 58 points (2 picks) Running backs: 25.2 points (2 picks) Defensive End: 18.6 points (1 pick) Punter: 1 point (1 pick) The guy has no clue at all. What makes this even more ridiculous is when you consider the insane amount of money spent on those same top positions, doubling down on the ineptitude. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 29 minutes ago, Beerfish said: Just how many times do we have to hear this? Oh Shel is not mo ...oh leo is not shel....just keep picking dts forever and after they fail just say the new guy is the real good player and the rest were crap. Until it sinks in? No one ever said Sheldon isn't Mo. No one said Leo isn't Sheldon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 1 minute ago, T0mShane said: Gregg Williams is a mastermind who will run the 5-2-4 OMG, why is Williams playing one of these DTs out of position?!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 15 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Counterpoint: his first round picks only appear good relative to the rest of his draft picks, which have been abysmal. Yeah, well I guess you would have to compare his first round picks to the rest of the GMs in the league over the same time period. Qualitatively, they seem adequate. I can think of a lot of other teams who have busted pretty hard in the first round since Macc has been drafting. 15 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said: Macc didn't even draft Enunwa. His 1st round picks are criticized by some, but far from most, as they are vastly overrated by the majority simply because of how awful his other picks are by comparison. Aside from Darnold, every one of those picks have been nothing more than "solid" players at non-premium positions that were not needs for the Jets, ultimately resulting in little-to-no actual team improvement resulting in those picks. Adams has been considerably better than a "solid" player. That's almost as silly as writing "aside from Darnold." (i.e. Aside from the most important player this franchise has drafted in a generation) Again, we'd have to compare Macc's 1st rounds to the rest of the GMs in the league over the same period of time. My suspicion is that he'd be about average in that department. Where he has failed miserably is in the later rounds. That's where good GMs make their money and find gems. Macc has found almost none of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 21 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said: Jones at 6 seemed like a stretch at best and I like Jones. Lawrence was meh when they could have kept Snacks last year, and Baker is a decent corner but why trade up for a corner at the top of the 1st when it seems like a run on corners is bound to happen in the 2nd? Just seemed like poor managing of the flow of the draft, all my Giants friends hated it too, lol. Yeah, the problem with the Jones pick is that he would have been there at 17, 37, and possibly even later. I honestly have no idea how good he is. I haven't watched Duke play football . . . ever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 I'm writing something to post with my board as it stands. I half-assed it this year because I don't have any prop bets but it's still a useful tool and does a pretty good job of illustrating the bullet points on the goofy lopsided corner case that is this year's class. The general takeaway is what I think is a pretty fair case that trying to impose an agenda that is at odds with the composition of the talent pool is an absolute catastrophe. The specific takeaway is that Maccagnan should be on the phone all night exhausting any possibility we have of acquiring as high a pick as possible tomorrow to take Chase Winovich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 18 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said: None of this suggests they will be playing next to each other regularly. In all likelihood, they will be playing on opposite sides of the line in the base D. Unless of course it goes along with your suggestion that Maccagnan is such an idiot he spent the entire FA period building a 3-4 roster, and will now try to redo it all for a 4-3 strictly in an attempt to justify a draft pick. Again, you guys are obsessed with the 3-4/4-3 stuff, when the team will be in nickel for the half of the game, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindOverMatter Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Just now, slimjasi said: Yeah, the problem with the Jones pick is that he would have been there at 17, 37, and possibly even later. Considering Giants could probably have walked away with Rosen for a 2nd + late round picks, Allen or Oliver @ 6, and i guess NT or CB @ 17 than that would have been muc easier to sell to a fanbase that's growing uneasy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamax99 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 I want J Allen but bottom line he took best player avl, QW is the safest pick in draft and will be a beast in the middle oliver will be a terror against slower line. But I dont think anyone wanted to trade up for what? No one took a qb till 15. I think he will sign Ansah soon. Need to trade up and get center or corner good value left ,use next years 2 and 4th. Man if we get a jawan taylor , and greedy ill be happy. Sell d lee at garge sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said: Considering Giants could probably have walked away with Rosen for a 2nd + late round picks, Allen or Oliver @ 6, and i guess NT or CB @ 17 than that would have been muc easier to sell to a fanbase that's growing uneasy. Sounds like these teams weren't very high on Rosen, though. I think I heard Schefter say that he was everyone's "backup plan" should they not get the QB they wanted in the draft. The Rosen stuff is interesting, because it's somewhat staggering how much his stock has fallen in the past year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR24 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 When Mac took over our biggest needs were QB,Edge,OL,CB,WR and now 4 full drafts and the first round of draft #5 our biggest needs are Edge,OL,CB,WR. We’ve drafted 3 DTs in 2 years our GM is completely clueless when it comes to drafting and prospect evaluating. Does well in trades but his lack of productive draft picks is alarming. This is the sad reality we will face until he’s gone he’s never going to make the ballsy right pick. It will always be whoever the best available is regardless of roster depth. Hopefully we sign Anzah and can get a fulll year out of him idk how we’re getting an edge in this draft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Again, you guys are obsessed with the 3-4/4-3 stuff, when the team will be in nickel for the half of the game, anyway. Pretty sure you still need 3 or 4 DL on the field when you’re in Nickel. Playing with 5 DBs all game doesn’t cover up the inherent problem with our front 7 (or in this case, front 6) personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said: Pretty sure you still need 3 or 4 DL on the field when you’re in Nickel. Playing with 5 DBs all game doesn’t cover up the inherent problem with our front 7 (or in this case, front 6) personnel. Ok, but you don't think GW has a plan for how to play them together? I'm gonna trust that he has an idea of what he wants to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Ok, but you don't think GW has a plan for how to play them together? I'm gonna trust that he has an idea of what he wants to do. There’s no plan any DC could construct for how to make this personnel work. It’s square pegs in round holes at this stage. The only way to make it work is by trading Leonard Williams and going from there. And even then there’s still questions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Just now, Jetsfan80 said: There’s no plan any DC could construct for how to make this personnel work. It’s square pegs in round holes at this stage. The only way to make it work is by trading Leonard Williams and going from there. Yeah, I don't buy that. People always say stuff like this in sports until it does work. I sincerely doubt the Jets would have taken QW if they didn't plan on putting him on the field with their best defensive lineman. I suspect that this is much ado about nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Yeah, I don't buy that. People always say stuff like this in sports until it does work. I sincerely doubt the Jets would have taken QW if they didn't plan on putting him on the field with their best defensive lineman. I suspect that this is much ado about nothing. Ok, then give me your answer then on how we make it work given the options we have. In Nickel we’d need to decide if we want Quinnen in the middle of a 3-3-5 or at DT in a 4-2-5, with weak DEs who can’t rush the passer. I guess in the latter you put Jordan Jenkins at DE and Darron Lee plays pretty much never. Getting your “best guys” on the field means weakening yourself significantly somewhere. It’s pick your poison at that point. There’s no “innovation” here that’ll make anything Willians brings to the table a cutting edge strategy. Our defense is slow and has too much redundancy as it stands currently. And what’s more, Gregg Williams is only slightly above average as a DC given his track record. He’s not a miracle worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Ok, then give me your answer then on how we make it work given the options we have. In Nickel we’d need to decide if we want Quinnen in the middle of a 3-3-5 or at DT in a 4-2-5, with weak DEs who can’t rush the passer. I guess in the latter you put Jordan Jenkins at DE and Darron Lee plays pretty much never. Getting your “best guys” on the field means weakening yourself significantly somewhere. It’s pick your poison at that point. 1) The roster isn't complete yet. We aren't even halfway through the draft. Can we see what the roster looks like in August? 2) Related to (1), I'm sure GW has a specific plan, but my suspicion would be that they are planning to play them together in a four man front, which would entail picking up another player or two who can play DE. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 1) The roster isn't complete yet. We aren't even halfway through the draft. Can we see what the roster looks like in August? 2) Related to (1), I'm sure GW has a specific plan, but my suspicion would be that they are planning to play them together in four man front, which would entail picking up another player or two who can play DE. Aside from trading Leo, what significant moves are yet to be made? Do you think whoever we take in Round 3 or acquire from the June 1st cuts scrap heap will significantly alter the makeup of our front 7 personnel? The 4-3 move would demand we find someone who can rush the passer at DE. Very tough to find at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Just now, Jetsfan80 said: Aside from trading Leo, what significant moves are yet to be made? Do you think whoever we take in Round 3 or acquire from the June 1st cuts scrap heap will significantly alter the makeup of our front 7 personnel? There is plenty of room for significant moves to be made, friend. The bolded literally happens every year for multiple teams. For example, we traded for Henry Anderson on the last day of last year's draft (almost exactly a year ago) for a 7th round pick. Happens all the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 There is plenty of room for significant moves to be made, friend. The bolded literally happens every year for multiple teams. For example, we traded for Henry Anderson on the last day of last year's draft (almost exactly a year ago) for a 7th round pick. Happens all the time. Anderson is a nice player, but he was not somebody who significantly changed the look of a defense. I’m talking about someone who fundamentally changes the way we look at how our front 7 will be set up. There’s no move to be made at this point that can move that needle, aside from moving Leo or trading away a 2020 first rounder for Jadeveon Clowney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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