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Takeaways from this draft so far


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23 minutes ago, slats said:

Paying Anderson and drafting Quinnen at #3 makes paying Leo next year very difficult. So what you're describing is what the Jets need to do so that someone else breaks the bank for Leo and the Jets get themselves a third round comp pick in 2021. 

Exactly, which is why there's no reason to spend a year putting a bunch of starting-level players in a rotation, given the roster build has made it impossible for them to all be on the field at the same time, just so they can hope that outcome happens as the best case scenario of keeping Leo around.  Trade him now.

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10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

1. There is a gulf between what NFL teams are doing and what the people that cover those teams are reporting on. Insider “access” has become a highly managed, self-contained industry whereby the NFL controls what “news” is distributed, when it gets out, and how. If you’re not Schefter or Rapoport, you’re frozen out entirely. The draft media, specifically, is a bunch of self-appointed bloggers who are almost not worth paying attention to. 

2. Quinnen Williams is a fine player who does nothing to help Sam Darnold or the Jets. He doesn’t make the product appreciably better, and his presence here should presage the end of Leonard Williams’ underwhelming time on the roster because there’s no reason to keep both of them, especially when you have to pay one of them $17 mil per after this season. Maccagnan did *exactly this* four years ago with Sheldon and Leonard and he thinks he’s going to get away with it again. 

3. Maccagnan will skate, at least publicly, because Dave Gettleman bailed them out with a catastrophic draft night. The Giants train wreck is set to be a national sports story until Gettleman is tossed.

4. The ESPN telecast was a mothet****ing nightmare from start to finish. From Trey Wingo’s screaming, weird opening monologue, to Booger McFarland reminding everyone how awful the Monday Night Football telecast was, to relegating Schefter to a side screen propping up Mort, it was awful. The lowlight, however, was the fifteen minute vignette where they took turns apologizing for and explaining away Jeffrey Simmons beating the sh*t out of a woman lying on the ground. This segment was so inexcusable and obtuse that someone needs to be outed for producing it. At one point, Wingo even says that the woman on the ground had a “history” with Simmons’ sister, as though she had it coming. There’s a reason ESPN was so invested in covering for Simmons and someone needs to find out that reason. An absolute disgrace. Maybe Mushnick or Marchand can take a day off from dick-riding Francesa to actually do some reporting on an actual sports media story.

5. Maccagnan saying that he’s going to try to trade up into the second round is an admission that he knows he ****ed up in the first round. We’ll never know what the offers were to trade down from 3, but chances are good that Maccagnan choked and took the chicken exit to cover his own ass. It was reminiscent of Tannenbaum talking about the “mini-draft” after nuking one of his draft classes, referring to the UDFA signing period. 

Every now and then, when you are not attempting comedy to wildly varying degrees of success . You post something genuinely insightful.

ESPN is just abysmal

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10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

1. There is a gulf between what NFL teams are doing and what the people that cover those teams are reporting on. Insider “access” has become a highly managed, self-contained industry whereby the NFL controls what “news” is distributed, when it gets out, and how. If you’re not Schefter or Rapoport, you’re frozen out entirely. The draft media, specifically, is a bunch of self-appointed bloggers who are almost not worth paying attention to. 

2. Quinnen Williams is a fine player who does nothing to help Sam Darnold or the Jets. He doesn’t make the product appreciably better, and his presence here should presage the end of Leonard Williams’ underwhelming time on the roster because there’s no reason to keep both of them, especially when you have to pay one of them $17 mil per after this season. Maccagnan did *exactly this* four years ago with Sheldon and Leonard and he thinks he’s going to get away with it again. 

3. Maccagnan will skate, at least publicly, because Dave Gettleman bailed them out with a catastrophic draft night. The Giants train wreck is set to be a national sports story until Gettleman is tossed.

4. The ESPN telecast was a mothet****ing nightmare from start to finish. From Trey Wingo’s screaming, weird opening monologue, to Booger McFarland reminding everyone how awful the Monday Night Football telecast was, to relegating Schefter to a side screen propping up Mort, it was awful. The lowlight, however, was the fifteen minute vignette where they took turns apologizing for and explaining away Jeffrey Simmons beating the sh*t out of a woman lying on the ground. This segment was so inexcusable and obtuse that someone needs to be outed for producing it. At one point, Wingo even says that the woman on the ground had a “history” with Simmons’ sister, as though she had it coming. There’s a reason ESPN was so invested in covering for Simmons and someone needs to find out that reason. An absolute disgrace. Maybe Mushnick or Marchand can take a day off from dick-riding Francesa to actually do some reporting on an actual sports media story.

5. Maccagnan saying that he’s going to try to trade up into the second round is an admission that he knows he ****ed up in the first round. We’ll never know what the offers were to trade down from 3, but chances are good that Maccagnan choked and took the chicken exit to cover his own ass. It was reminiscent of Tannenbaum talking about the “mini-draft” after nuking one of his draft classes, referring to the UDFA signing period. 

I just think the Jets were dealt a bad hand. There was no QB worth trading up for and there was so much D-line talent in the draft teams didn't feel the need to go up and get Williams when they could have one of the other 6 who got picked. 

I can't fault Macc for not taking a bad trade and and I can't fault him for taking the best player on his board.

I can fault his board for not rating Josh Allen number one and I can fault him for not having the balls to take the number 2 guy on his board when you have no need at the position for your number one guy. 

We didn't get a bad player. We just didn't get a player that's gonna do all that much to improve the team. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Exactly, which is why there's no reason to spend a year putting a bunch of starting-level players in a rotation, given the roster build has made it impossible for them to all be on the field at the same time, just so they can hope that outcome happens as the best case scenario of keeping Leo around.  Trade him now.

If they can get a second round pick for Leo, they should jump at it. He is now expendable. Plus it'd free up another $14M for the upcoming mini-draft! 

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46 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Allow me to save you some time, friend. Today will follow thusly—from noon until 7p, the stories from the beat hacks will range from how they *feel* about the Quinnen Willians pick to how they *feel* about this *new Jets era of football* where Gregg Williams will make everyone’s dreams come true, 

Shane 1st off you are on ******* fire today. I don't know what you put in the coffee but pass it over here my friend

and yes they are a bunch of dummies running the team

the two point on where we differ

1 is this overall quality of QW. He's a higher pick than all the DT they've ever drafted, better workouts, from a better program etc.  You probably don't care but his Arm over move is friggin ridiculous 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/8/18252958/nfl-draft-2019-quinnen-williams-new-york-jets-scouting-report-defensive-tackle-alabama

 

2 - the crucial point you are missing is that TB12 is still standing upright and he's benjamin Buttoning his way to being the oldest QB to ever play. The Bills took a DT, The Fins took a DT, the Jets took a DT. Is that an accident?  David Andrews the center for the Pats is undersized and no great shakes. Aaron Donald was in Brady's face and head all Super Bowl long. 

it's because everyone in America, even you Shane, knows the only way to get to Tom Brady is through interior pressure. When Buffalo took Ed Oliver I was first pissed, because he could be an amazing player in this division for a decade but then I thought, no. Good luck Ed Oliver, go get TB12, Ed. Break him. 

QW does help Sam Darnold by getting him the football back. this defense couldn't get off the field last year on 3rd and 19.   

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If they are somehow able to grab a respectable Center and pass rusher like Winovich or polite today, would that make QW more palatable to folks?  For me the answer is yes.  I just hate the fact that they don't really have the ability/ammo to control the situation to make sure that happens.

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Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

If they are somehow able to grab a respectable Center and pass rusher like Winovich or polite today, would that make QW more palatable to folks?  For me the answer is yes.

1) Q is the pass rusher being drafted for immediate impact.  not an olb today

2) i think it's 50/50 they go cb early round 3, not OL

 

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1 hour ago, derp said:

I’m hoping Maccagnan accidentally falls into a guy I like today with one of his drafting tendencies. Older smaller school guy - Scharping.

The bar is pretty low. If he falls into McCoy or Jenkins the board will he doing backflips. What will be hysterical is when one of them is there and he passes or he lets a team jump ahead for him.

As god is my witness I thought the part after the bolded part was going to be "wood chipper".

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I think the issue most have with the pick, is not about the player, its about the historical context and how resources are deployed on this team.  Since our last playoff appearance, we have used premium picks (day 1 or 2) on Mo Wilkerson, Kenrick Ellis, Sheldon Richardson, Quinton Coples, Leonard Williams, Nathan Sheperd and now Quinnen Williams.  Five 1s and two 3s.  During the same time the only Edge's & OLs selected day 1 or 2 were Lorenzo Mauldin, Jordan Jenkins and Brian Winters.  All 3rd round picks. 

And in the last year alone, we drafted Shepherd, Fatukasi and Williams, Traded for and re-signed Henry Anderson.  Re-signed Steve McClendon and picked up 5th year option on Leo Williams.  Edge & OL -- we re-signed Brandon Copeland and traded for Kelechi Osemele.  And agreed to terms with Anthony Barr for a day.

In a vacuum, the Williams pick is a good pick.  He probably will be a very good player.  But given the historical context, I find it frustrating that we continue to spend premium resources on a position group which has not made a significant impact in the Win column.  I certainly hope QW changes the narrative, but unless and until that happens, it is frustrating.

 

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1 minute ago, Lith said:

I think the issue most have with the pick, is not about the player, its about the historical context and how resources are deployed on this team.  Since our last playoff appearance, we have used premium picks (day 1 or 2) on Mo Wilkerson, Kenrick Ellis, Sheldon Richardson, Quinton Coples, Leonard Williams, Nathan Sheperd and now Quinnen Williams.  Five 1s and two 3s.  During the same time the only Edge's & OLs selected day 1 or 2 were Lorenzo Mauldin, Jordan Jenkins and Brian Winters.  All 3rd round picks. 

And in the last year alone, we drafted Shepherd, Fatukasi and Williams, Traded for and re-signed Henry Anderson.  Re-signed Steve McClendon and picked up 5th year option on Leo Williams.  Edge & OL -- we re-signed Brandon Copeland and traded for Kelechi Osemele.  And agreed to terms with Anthony Barr for a day.

In a vacuum, the Williams pick is a good pick.  He probably will be a very good player.  But given the historical context, I find it frustrating that we continue to spend premium resources on a position group which has not made a significant impact in the Win column.  I certainly hope QW changes the narrative, but unless and until that happens, it is frustrating.

 

Historical context doesn't matter. All that matters is where the team is at in the present. Q makes the Jets better than any other player on the board the time. It's that simple. 

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I find it funny thinking back to 1995 how those fans were screaming for Sapp. And how the fanbase now would hate that pick because DTs aren’t a good enough value.

And that that Jets fanbase would not have known Sapp was a HOFer so they couldn’t use that as a defense to wanting him.

They would have loved Kyle Brady

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1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I find it funny thinking back to 1995 how those fans were screaming for Sapp. And how the fanbase now would hate that pick because DTs aren’t a good enough value.

And that that Jets fanbase would not have known Sapp was a HOFer so they couldn’t use that as a defense to wanting him.

They would have loved Kyle Brady

Exactly. Passing on Q for Hockenson is literally like passing on Sapp for Brady. 

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17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Shane 1st off you are on ******* fire today. I don't know what you put in the coffee but pass it over here my friend

and yes they are a bunch of dummies running the team

the two point on where we differ

1 is this overall quality of QW. He's a higher pick than all the DT they've ever drafted, better workouts, from a better program etc.  You probably don't care but his Arm over move is friggin ridiculous 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/8/18252958/nfl-draft-2019-quinnen-williams-new-york-jets-scouting-report-defensive-tackle-alabama

 

2 - the crucial point you are missing is that TB12 is still standing upright and he's benjamin Buttoning his way to being the oldest QB to ever play. The Bills took a DT, The Fins took a DT, the Jets took a DT. Is that an accident?  David Andrews the center for the Pats is undersized and no great shakes. Aaron Donald was in Brady's face and head all Super Bowl long. 

it's because everyone in America, even you Shane, knows the only way to get to Tom Brady is through interior pressure. When Buffalo took Ed Oliver I was first pissed, because he could be an amazing player in this division for a decade but then I thought, no. Good luck Ed Oliver, go get TB12, Ed. Break him. 

QW does help Sam Darnold by getting him the football back. this defense couldn't get off the field last year on 3rd and 19.   

I mean, that'd all be cool if Quinnen WIlliams was Aaron Donald, but he's not. Is he Chris Jones? Because Brady lit the Chiefs up with that guy rushing up the middle. 

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43 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

If they are somehow able to grab a respectable Center and pass rusher like Winovich or polite today, would that make QW more palatable to folks?  For me the answer is yes.  I just hate the fact that they don't really have the ability/ammo to control the situation to make sure that happens.

At this point, I would rather see two OL.  Even without a high end pass rusher, we should have enough resources on D for Greg Williams to be able to scheme an improved pass rush.  Right now we have 5 starters on OL who are average at best (KO may be better than average, but rest are average to below).  And we have little proven depth behind them.  Beachum and Shell are both UFA after this season.  As much as I hate to pass on edge, I would rather see us double dip at OL; otherwise, next season,  we will be right back where we are now, thrying to piece together an OL out of spare parts.

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Just now, Lith said:

At this point, I would rather see two OL.  Even without a high end pass rusher, we should have enough resources on D for Greg Williams to be able to scheme an improved pass rush.  Right now we have 5 starters on OL who are average at best (KO may be better than average, but rest are average to below).  And we have little proven depth behind them.  Beachum and Shell are both UFA after this season.  As much as I hate to pass on edge, I would rather see us double dip at OL; otherwise we will be right back wehre we are now, thrying to piece together an OL out of spare parts.

I actually would prefer this too than an edge rusher.  

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I mean, that'd all be cool if Quinnen WIlliams was Aaron Donald, but he's not. Is he Chris Jones? Because Brady lit the Chiefs up with that guy rushing up the middle. 

Fine but saying he's Drob or Quentin Coples just cause he plays DL is not really giving this individual player his fair dues 

Quinnen Williams won the Outland trophy 

the Jets have never drafted a player who won the Outland. They had a chance to in 1996 but they passed on Orlando Pace

and yes Aaron Donald's name is also on that list 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/outland.html

no one knows if QW is going to be a Pro Bowler but the reasoning behind the pick is the same for all the AFC east teams. nothing is going to change until Brady retires. I don't know if QW pans out (or Dexter Lawrence or Ed Oliver) but Brady has to play them all 6 times now that's (hopefully) a problem he didn't have yesterday. 

 

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29 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Historical context doesn't matter. All that matters is where the team is at in the present. Q makes the Jets better than any other player on the board the time. It's that simple. 

I hope you are right.  But I have heard it before.  Leo was going to be the next coming of Reggie White or Warren Sapp.  He is a nice player, but not a difference maker.  Sheldon was Rookie of the Year.  Didn't help us win a lot of games.  Wilk was a stud for 3 or 4 seasons before he became rich fat and lazy.  I need to see it on the field from QW to be convinced he will be a true difference maker.

I hope you are right about Q.  I am skeptical.

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33 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

I just think the Jets were dealt a bad hand. There was no QB worth trading up for and there was so much D-line talent in the draft teams didn't feel the need to go up and get Williams when they could have one of the other 6 who got picked. 

I can't fault Macc for not taking a bad trade and and I can't fault him for taking the best player on his board.

I can fault his board for not rating Josh Allen number one and I can fault him for not having the balls to take the number 2 guy on his board when you have no need at the position for your number one guy. 

We didn't get a bad player. We just didn't get a player that's gonna do all that much to improve the team. 

 

Correct...which is why you take the tackle.  This "value" idea is so stupid.  Taking a guy you truly need at 3 that got drafted at 10 isn't a terrible reach - it's making the team better.  

It's helping to grow your franchise QB and build a great passing offense instead of a great run-defense is a passing league -  the Jets honestly don't get it.  I don't know any other way to see it.  There is no strategy or understanding of what the NFL is all about.

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Just now, Scott Dierking said:

My question is, can they use QW on the edge at times?

not really... but QW played was a 260 pound DE at Alabama as a freshman he told Saban he wanted to play DT so he gained 40 pounds of good muscle to win the job over all their other legit DT recruits .. and become the best Bama DT of all time (so far) 

The whole point of QW is putting a souped up edge rusher inside to wreck the center. Not outside  

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10 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Historical context doesn't matter. All that matters is where the team is at in the present. Q makes the Jets better than any other player on the board the time. It's that simple. 

Oh it does matter, it matters a lot.  It is called having a sound plan and strategy to build your team because teams are filled with  strengths and weaknesses.  If you fail to or never address the weaknesses your strengths do not matter at all.  The team for years has used massive resources on the interior Dline and CBs (free agency) and the defense still is poor and the offense has been largely ignored.

If we come to our 3rd round pick and the jets top rated players list looks like this: safety, dline, dline, qb, rb, saftey, dline, ilb, ilb dlne.

Who do we choose?

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8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I mean, that'd all be cool if Quinnen WIlliams was Aaron Donald, but he's not. Is he Chris Jones? Because Brady lit the Chiefs up with that guy rushing up the middle. 

I've always wondered why the Genius elite like yourself that knows how a player will be before he's played 1 down in the NFL never plays the Lottery?? Knowing the future as you do would win you millions and you could buy the team and then we would know it was in good hands at last..:cheers:

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Correct...which is why you take the tackle.  This "value" idea is so stupid.  Taking a guy you truly need at 3 that got drafted at 10 isn't a terrible reach - it's making the team better.   

there was no tackle in the top 10

Jonah Williams went 11 to the Bengals 

his workouts were so bad by the way they made my balls retract into my body, like jumping into an ice bath 

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

not really... but QW played was a 260 pound DE at Alabama as a freshman he told Saban he wanted to play DT so he gained 40 pounds of good muscle to win the job over all their other legit DT recruits .. and become the best Bama DT of all time (so far) 

The whole point of QW is putting a souped up edge rusher inside to wreck the center. Not outside  

I will correct you on one point, it was Alabama that approached QW about switching to Nose. At least from what I read.

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37 minutes ago, slats said:

If they can get a second round pick for Leo, they should jump at it. He is now expendable. Plus it'd free up another $14M for the upcoming mini-draft! 

the thought of trading LEo TODAY crossed my muddled mind this meandering mid morning

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

there was no tackle in the top 10

Jonah Williams went 11 to the Bengals 

his workouts were so bad by the way they made my balls retract into my body, like jumping into an ice bath 

Did you honestly quote me to point out I said 10 instead of 11?  Same point, you take offense, you protect Sam or get him weapons.

The defense has enough talent to compete - Even with the Bell additional the offense won't be able to run the ball or give Sam a whole lot of time and the Jets will be battling in 20-13 games all year. 

But they'll be top against the run.  6-10 with a great run defense, that's what we'll be.

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2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Did you honestly quote me to point out I said 10 instead of 11?  Same point, you take offense, you protect Sam or get him weapons.

The defense has enough talent to compete - Even with the Bell additional the offense won't be able to run the ball or give Sam a whole lot of time and the Jets will be battling in 20-13 games all year. 

But they'll be top against the run.  6-10 with a great run defense, that's what we'll be.

You sound like a shopper at Whole Foods demanding avocados when there are no avocados

"YES BUT DID YOU CHECK IN THE BACK" 

we all like offensive linemen dude you can't draft what isn't there

by the way the Bengals owner runs that draft it's like he does it out of a magazine. Jonah Williams sux cox n dix 

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2 hours ago, section314 said:

Do you like your draft so far?

Would have been happy if they took Sweat at 24 and Josh Jacobs at 27 .    Gruden didn't want to lose Jacobs , so he took the rb( no one wanted RB that was left)  His brother screwed him trading up in front of him to get sweat. I would have taken Justin Layne instead of the safety.

after the picks they made on defense last year, I have more confidence the DC knows exactly what he needs to build his defense. ( why not as upset as I would be) 

Raiders have two offers to trade back from 35.     A lot of top players around still can't make my mind if they should draft CB, or top offenselineman left . Dalton Risner, or Cody Ford would be nice young replacement for Osemele at guard.

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