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Im actually really glad...


Villain The Foe

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...that I fell asleep before the draft started and missed it live. (Began at 2am my time).

Q? Great prospect. However, when it comes to utilizing draft resources relative to what we have on the roster, this front office and ownership are grossly incompetent. Its now to the point that when this stupidity happens every year we must somehow convince ourselves that maybe he simply couldn't find the right exchange in a trade, which also shows his consistent inability to negotiate a trade when he has top prospects still available such as Q or top rated EDGE guys on the board. And speaking of EDGE, wasnt that what was said to be needed the entire time, which is why we tried to sign guys like Barr? Mike Maccagnan just drafted, for the 2nd time in his GM career, a DT with a top pick, over an edge player, a DT position which is one of the few strengths of this team which includes veteran depth AND a 25 year old developing 2nd year DT that we just drafted last off-season. 

Macc should have been fired after the end of 2016.

Mike Maccagnan is a trash GM, and based on his draft history, he's proven to also be a trash scout. 

 

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

...that I fell asleep before the draft started and missed it live. (Began at 2am my time).

Q? Great prospect. However, when it comes to utilizing draft resources relative to what we have on the roster, this front office and ownership are grossly incompetent. Its now to the point that when this stupidity happens every year we must somehow convince ourselves that maybe he simply couldn't find the right exchange in a trade, which also shows his consistent inability to negotiate a trade when he has top prospects still available such as Q or top rated EDGE guys on the board. And speaking of EDGE, wasnt that what was said to be needed the entire time, which is why we tried to sign guys like Barr? Mike Maccagnan just drafted, for the 2nd time in his GM career, a DT with a top pick, over an edge player, a DT position which is one of the few strengths of this team which includes veteran depth AND a 25 year old developing 2nd year DT that we drafted just last off-season. 

Macc should have been fired after the end of the 2016.

Mike Maccagnan is a trash GM, and based on his draft history has proven to also be a trash scout. 

 

Can’t disagree, I decided to go to bed at 1am and skipped it. I’m glad I did.

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19 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

Can’t disagree, I decided to go to bed at 1am and skipped it. I’m glad I did.

I woke up, went to NFL.com and the disappointment immediately set in. I looked and all I could do is shake my head. This has nothing to do with Q as a talent, but how can we expect the Jets to progress with Macc given his track record, and the refusal for years by ownership to fire this guy. 

 

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I don't necessarily disagree with the above but to address the edge could it that Lee will move out there from inside. After all he has speed to burn the edge and is good in coverage. Did he not play there for Ohio? I seem to remember that we were all surprised when he was moved inside.  Also ansah is still available...an option seeing as our front looks like a Swiss army knife now.

 

Fyiw glad we got q but also thinking about the whatifs if we managed to trade out.

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I haven't watched the draft in many years, due to the time difference to the UK.

Last year I woke up on the Fri AM and read we'd drafted Darnold. Couldn't believe it, I was buzzing all day.

This year I read we'd drafted Q. Not quite the same reaction. I doubt any pick would have got me buzzing, but it does feel underwhelming even though we got the "best player in the draft". Hopefully it'll look better with hindsight once the games start in Sept.

I'm actually more excited about Day 2 to see if we can grab some good value with our two picks.

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7 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I haven't watched the draft in many years, due to the time difference to the UK.

Last year I woke up on the Fri AM and read we'd drafted Darnold. Couldn't believe it, I was buzzing all day.

This year I read we'd drafted Q. Not quite the same reaction. I doubt any pick would have got me buzzing, but it does feel underwhelming even though we got the "best player in the draft". Hopefully it'll look better with hindsight once the games start in Sept.

I'm actually more excited about Day 2 to see if we can grab some good value with our two picks.

watch some clips of the guy.  he is actually pretty exciting.  a one year college starter who uses his hands like Q....

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they tried to facilitate a trade but the compensation was not enough to move down... had mac taken the deals everyone here would be complaining he got fleeced.. the staff and front office were both very high on williams to begin with so taking him over mediocre offers to trade down just made more sense than taking a substandard return.  Teams gambled to stay where they were and they ended up being right. It happens. 

Now i do think williams can be a top player, the problem becomes its just more of the same.  I was in favor of dropping down to select a OT and grab extra draft picks to help fortify the line and passrush.  That plan wasnt able to take place so the team pivoted and made the move to draft a player with an incredibly high ceiling.  It's not a bad pick, if you dont like the player fine, but the pick itself is not a BAD pick.. its just overkill to a fanbase that has seen this story before and been burned out by it. 

Theres a lot of rounds left and the jets will still be trying to trade back into the second round.  Look for players on the current roster to possibly be moved today in packages to move back into the second round, espeically if Taylor continues to slide down the draft (he was a jet favorite from day 1) . 

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3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I woke up, went to NFL.com and the disappointment immediately set in. I looked and all I could do is shake my head. This has nothing to do with Q as a talent, but how can we expect the Jets to progress with Macc given his track record, and the refusal for years by ownership to fire this guy. 

 

Snap, I thought fook it’s SOJ. That’s 5 DT’s taken in the 1st round in 8 years! - I was willing to give Macc the benefit of the doubt. Not now, he’s in Idzik territory for me. The Bills get the most impactful DT for me at 9.

Watch the idiot scramble to get back into round 2. He’s blown it, considering who’s still on the board.

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...that I fell asleep before the draft started and missed it live. (Began at 2am my time).
Q? Great prospect. However, when it comes to utilizing draft resources relative to what we have on the roster, this front office and ownership are grossly incompetent. Its now to the point that when this stupidity happens every year we must somehow convince ourselves that maybe he simply couldn't find the right exchange in a trade, which also shows his consistent inability to negotiate a trade when he has top prospects still available such as Q or top rated EDGE guys on the board. And speaking of EDGE, wasnt that what was said to be needed the entire time, which is why we tried to sign guys like Barr? Mike Maccagnan just drafted, for the 2nd time in his GM career, a DT with a top pick, over an edge player, a DT position which is one of the few strengths of this team which includes veteran depth AND a 25 year old developing 2nd year DT that we drafted just last off-season. 
Macc should have been fired after the end of the 2016.
Mike Maccagnan is a trash GM, and based on his draft history has proven to also be a trash scout. 
 
I'll say it again...look at top edge rushers and their teams iver the past three decades... Then look at the super bowl winners
..

Edge is important ... But way way way over rated.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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11 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Why does a guy this amazing only start one year?

 Cause bama are pumping out good Dlinemen left and right . Had to wait his turn . And in 1 year Q dominated like none of them before him . He literally made the SEC which is the best competition in college football his play ground . 

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Just for fun here were the biggest needs when Mac took over- QB Edge OL WR CB. And here are the teams current needs now. Edge OL CB WR lol this guys draft record is criminal he should be fired on the spot 

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9 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

they tried to facilitate a trade but the compensation was not enough to move down... had mac taken the deals everyone here would be complaining he got fleeced.. the staff and front office were both very high on williams to begin with so taking him over mediocre offers to trade down just made more sense than taking a substandard return.  Teams gambled to stay where they were and they ended up being right. It happens. 

Now i do think williams can be a top player, the problem becomes its just more of the same.  I was in favor of dropping down to select a OT and grab extra draft picks to help fortify the line and passrush.  That plan wasnt able to take place so the team pivoted and made the move to draft a player with an incredibly high ceiling.  It's not a bad pick, if you dont like the player fine, but the pick itself is not a BAD pick.. its just overkill to a fanbase that has seen this story before and been burned out by it. 

Theres a lot of rounds left and the jets will still be trying to trade back into the second round.  Look for players on the current roster to possibly be moved today in packages to move back into the second round, espeically if Taylor continues to slide down the draft (he was a jet favorite from day 1) . 

This. People here are acting like Mac turned down some great offer to move down. If he was offered pennies on the dollar, would these people still want to trade down? I'm sure Williams had a big say in who was drafted at that spot, and unlike Bowles and company actually knows what he is doing. Let's see what happens the rest of the draft before going off the cliff.

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Just now, Scoop24 said:

 

 Cause bama are pumping out good Dlinemen left and right . Had to wait his turn . And in 1 year Q dominated like none of them before him . He literally made the SEC which is the best competition in college football his play ground . 

I’m being told he’s a “generational” talent.  Such a player shouldn’t have to wait his turn.  Such a player shouldn’t be invisible in the most important game where his unit gets steamrolled.

Everyone agrees he’ll be a good football player.  The question is will he make a meaningful difference.  I have serious doubts.  Existing doesn’t make him Aaron Donald, unfortunately.

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3 hours ago, JetHammer said:

I don't necessarily disagree with the above but to address the edge could it that Lee will move out there from inside. After all he has speed to burn the edge and is good in coverage. Did he not play there for Ohio? I seem to remember that we were all surprised when he was moved inside.  Also ansah is still available...an option seeing as our front looks like a Swiss army knife now.

 

Fyiw glad we got q but also thinking about the whatifs if we managed to trade out.

Lee played CB in HS, ran a 4.47 and moved around in college. He’s too light in the ass to be a traditional edge rusher but they should be able to use him in some form out there. 

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17 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Because his college team already had a good player at the same position.

You wouldn't want to play 2, or 3 players at the same position would you? 

I hope you see the hilarious irony of this post.

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5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

...that I fell asleep before the draft started and missed it live. (Began at 2am my time).

Q? Great prospect. However, when it comes to utilizing draft resources relative to what we have on the roster, this front office and ownership are grossly incompetent. Its now to the point that when this stupidity happens every year we must somehow convince ourselves that maybe he simply couldn't find the right exchange in a trade, which also shows his consistent inability to negotiate a trade when he has top prospects still available such as Q or top rated EDGE guys on the board. And speaking of EDGE, wasnt that what was said to be needed the entire time, which is why we tried to sign guys like Barr? Mike Maccagnan just drafted, for the 2nd time in his GM career, a DT with a top pick, over an edge player, a DT position which is one of the few strengths of this team which includes veteran depth AND a 25 year old developing 2nd year DT that we drafted just last off-season. 

Macc should have been fired after the end of the 2016.

Mike Maccagnan is a trash GM, and based on his draft history has proven to also be a trash scout. 

 

Nothing to add here. Well said.

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23 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Why does a guy this amazing only start one year?

Redshirt sophomore coming out. Only played 2 seasons.

I honestly did not watch much of Alabama this year or last. Not sure how much they rotated Dlineman. 

Any metrics on percentages of plays he participated in on defense? I would rather see those numbers than "start".

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6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I’m being told he’s a “generational” talent.  Such a player shouldn’t have to wait his turn.  Such a player shouldn’t be invisible in the most important game where his unit gets steamrolled.

Everyone agrees he’ll be a good football player.  The question is will he make a meaningful difference.  I have serious doubts.  Existing doesn’t make him Aaron Donald, unfortunately.

Great point.

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23 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Why does a guy this amazing only start one year?

He didn't start as a freshman but it's not as though he was non existent.  In 9 games as a freshman he had 20 tackles 6.5 TFL and 2 sacks in 9 games. 

I am with everyone questioning how all the pieces fit together, but Williams is a monster and the 1 year argument is a bit meh in my opinion.

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We have great DT s ?  Where?  You just took top prospect in draft.   Qw had more QB pressures then any DE in college football this year. Avg 11 a game.    I did want Josh Allen has more upside as speed rusher , but also more downside.    I think we sign Ziggy next day or two.  Its ok people u took  value over need , but close in value I get it.   What if we took c ferrel with pick ? Would u be happy? . The cat is do contract next year,  what if he wants crazy money or if Clowney becomes avl.  

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2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Redshirt sophomore coming out. Only played 2 seasons.

I honestly did not watch much of Alabama this year or last. Not sure how much they rotated Dlineman. 

Any metrics on percentages of plays he participated in on defense? I would rather see those numbers than "start".

20 total tackles in year one, and 9 games.  Imagine he didn’t play a ton.

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32 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I'll say it again...look at top edge rushers and their teams iver the past three decades... Then look at the super bowl winners
..

Edge is important ... But way way way over rated.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

Speaking to the choir on this one brother. I wanted a trade down and offensive picks. 

Im just saying, how many times are we going to pick DT's in the 1st round then talk about how we never have a pass rusher?

 

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@TeddEY On a quick serach, I could not find a stat for percentage of plays, but did find this interesting direct comparison to Oliver. I don't know

 

A STATISTICAL COMPARISON OF OUTLAND WINNERS QUINNEN WILLIAMS AND ED OLIVER

January 16, 2019 · by marksimonsis · in College Football · Leave a comment 

BY BRYCE ROSSLER

For the first time in six years, the NFL Draft will feature two Outland Trophy winners, both of whom figure to be selected early. But, this occurrence is especially strange because both players in question, Houston’s Ed Oliver and Alabama’s Quinnen Williams, are defenders (the award is given to the best interior linemen, on offense or defense).

The last time that two defensive winners of the trophy were in the same draft was 1978, which featured Notre Dame’s Ross Brown and Texas’s Brad Shearer. And perhaps that’s fitting since the defensive line is considered the strength of this class, a group that Oliver and Williams still manage to stand out from.

For most of last offseason, Oliver was billed by some as the surefire top selection in the class, but that was before Williams ascended to the throne with a dominant 2018 campaign. Whereas the former has been a known commodity for some time now, the latter seemingly came out of nowhere. Both of Williams’ running mates at Alabama, Isaiah Buggs and Raekwon Davis, were certainly attracting more attention in preseason. But, once he hit the field, Williams quickly became the focus of opposing teams.

The Crimson Tide sophomore ranked first in run stuff rate (i.e. solo tackles for non-positive yardage) among 339 defensive tackles with at least 100 run snaps. His rate of 6.8 percent was about a full percentage point higher than the next-best interior player, South Alabama’s Tyree Turner (5.8). And in case you were wondering – his Outland predecessor ranked third with a rate of 5.3 percent.

That difference is even further accentuated when you consider that teams aimed runs towards Williams on 19 percent of their rushing attempts, as opposed to 29 percent of the time for Oliver. And when teams did run at Williams, he caused the ballcarrier to bounce the play 43 percent of the time – nearly ten-plus percentage points more often than Oliver did (34 percent).

Williams was an even bigger difference-maker as a pass-rusher, boasting a hurry rate of 13.8 percent. That dwarfs the second-highest figure, which belongs to San Jose State’s Boogie Roberts, by 2.8 percentage points. Oliver once again ranks fourth with a still-excellent hurry rate of 10.5 percent. But, to give you an idea of just how impactful Williams was, his hurry rate outpaced that of several edge rushers who will merit first round consideration in April, namely: Clemson’s Clelin Ferrell (12.1 percent), Florida State’s Brian Burns (11.5), Mississippi State’s Montez Sweat (10.5), and Michigan’s Rashan Gary (9.5).

While the NFL will present a new set of challenges for Williams, his hurry rate this year was comparable to Aaron Donald’s at the NFL level. This doesn’t mean that he’ll be able to maintain that productivity on Sundays, but it does serve to illustrate his level of collegiate dominance. (If anything, it should serve to illustrate how futile the search for the next Aaron Donald is)

The bottom line is that both players project to be three-down difference-makers early in their careers. The advanced metrics seem to favor Williams, but an argument could be made that the already-established and obviously-talented Oliver suffered from a junior-year drop off as Jadeveon Clowney and Myles Garrett once did, and that he was capable of imposing his will more often. At any rate, statistics can only begin to contextualize a player’s performance, and film is what tells the full story.

A more traditional perspective on each (and more advanced stats like these) can be found in the Football Rookie Handbook (details to come on that in the near-future).

 

 
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8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I’m being told he’s a “generational” talent.  Such a player shouldn’t have to wait his turn.  Such a player shouldn’t be invisible in the most important game where his unit gets steamrolled.

Everyone agrees he’ll be a good football player.  The question is will he make a meaningful difference.  I have serious doubts.  Existing doesn’t make him Aaron Donald, unfortunately.

sh*t happens I’m pretty sure I can find bad games from any player you think jets should of took. 

He doesn’t need to be Donald or average 12 sacks a year of whatever unrealistic expectations you guys wanna put on him to justify the pick . If he is as good as Fletcher Cox or Geno Atkins that pick is well worth it IMO ..

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I was awake and was hoping they traded the pick, or worst case selected Allen

QW is a great kid who will be a solid Jet but a predictable pick that makes me hate being a Jets fan (although the vagiants pick was much worse)

to make it worse, now we wait for Leo (another solid Jet) to be traded so they can get back a second round pick and maybe try to help Sam

Jaguars and Redskins stole the first round thanks to incompetent NY football

Mac can't get fired soon enough

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31 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Because his college team already had a good player at the same position.

You wouldn't want to play 2, or 3 players at the same position would you? 

You mean like the Jets? Or am i missing the obvious sarcasm this early in the AM.

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33 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Because his college team already had a good player at the same position.

You wouldn't want to play 2, or 3 players at the same position would you? 

why?  That's what the Jets do almost every year.

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8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

20 total tackles in year one, and 9 games.  Imagine he didn’t play a ton.

Nick Bosa played a lot as a freshman and had 29 tackles 7 TFL and 5 sacks.  Not a whole lot better production than Williams as a freshman but in 3 more games. Completely different players but not setting the world on fire as a freshman is not uncommon

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26 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

 

 Cause bama are pumping out good Dlinemen left and right . Had to wait his turn . And in 1 year Q dominated like none of them before him . He literally made the SEC which is the best competition in college football his play ground . 

I hope youre right.

 

well, if anything, at least were doing one thing smart: replacing guys (leo) that are about to become $$free agents with quality guys (QW) on a rookie contract

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