Jump to content
Villain The Foe

Im actually really glad...

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

whaaaaa my team took a generational lineman whaaaaaaaa

 

at least we didnt pass on a franchise QB for a RB

 

 

Yeah, but we did in 2017 for a Safety or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I just read a piece that @Scott Dierking posted in here explaining how much of a freak Williams is. 

The kid has the ability to be a star, maybe even a superstar. But it pains me to watch, and I mean this seriously, that the only time the Jets can ever make a trade is to trade up (Sanchez, Darnold) and to give up a ton to do it, only to then watch as the Jets dont even invest in them with young talented offensive players. And its upsetting to see how Macc can never find "value" in trading down, but he can get bent over a barrel when trading up because "its a Quarterback". 

But the kicker, what really frustrates me to no f'ing end with this guy, is that he ends up drafting a defensive tackle, a position which usually is our strength of the team, as well as having alot of money allocated to it. 

Im so done with Mike Maccagnan. I'M DONE with this dude. 

This. Who cares how much of a freak he is. We don’t need him. Let him be a freak on someone else’s team. Obviously not freaky enough for someone to trade up fair value for 

  • Post of the Week 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Because his college team already had a good player at the same position.

You wouldn't want to play 2, or 3 players at the same position would you? 

Of course not. Only the Jets do that.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

they tried to facilitate a trade but the compensation was not enough to move down... had mac taken the deals everyone here would be complaining he got fleeced.. the staff and front office were both very high on williams to begin with so taking him over mediocre offers to trade down just made more sense than taking a substandard return.  Teams gambled to stay where they were and they ended up being right. It happens. 

Now i do think williams can be a top player, the problem becomes its just more of the same.  I was in favor of dropping down to select a OT and grab extra draft picks to help fortify the line and passrush.  That plan wasnt able to take place so the team pivoted and made the move to draft a player with an incredibly high ceiling.  It's not a bad pick, if you dont like the player fine, but the pick itself is not a BAD pick.. its just overkill to a fanbase that has seen this story before and been burned out by it. 

Theres a lot of rounds left and the jets will still be trying to trade back into the second round.  Look for players on the current roster to possibly be moved today in packages to move back into the second round, espeically if Taylor continues to slide down the draft (he was a jet favorite from day 1) . 

Fine. Then you draft Josh Allen not another DT which we already have. Utter stupidity.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Macc is the penultimate example of a GM with no desire to take risks with high draft picks.  He takes whomever is "consensus" regardless of their use to us or need or if we already have five of that position, and it's been keeping him employed.  Even his one risk (Darnold) he overpayed to get to the spot and had to luck into Darnold dropping past the lolGiants.

100% 

What I've grown to hate when talking about Macc is his "safe picks". His safe picks have either ended up being off the team in a couple years, players who are good...but didnt reach expectations relative to the hype and where they were picked, or 1st round picks that have essentially been replaced by free agents such as C.J Mosley. 

His safe mentality has done nothing but keep us safely at the bottom of the rankings. That's all it has done. 

And to think that he would be beyond being just a consensus drafter given that it was pushed to us Jets fans that he was a former "scout" who worked his way up the ranks with hard work, dedication and an eye for talent. We havent seen any of those traits outside of his dedication to the coffee mug. 

Quote

I have no beef with our new Beef Q.W.  

He's just not very useful to us for building a winning team, as I see it.  We're not going to be an elite top-5 Defense because of him, so what we got him then?  Adams, Williams, Williams, Lee, Trumaine, that MLB guy, so much capital thrown at this Defense......and I bet it finishes where it has often lately, 20 or worse.  It's bad team building.

Precisely. And I am glad that folks understood my position and seeing that it was in no way criticism to Q. He's worthy of being a top ranked prospect, but it simply wasnt what the Jets needed. It's never been. The last time Macc did this it was with Leo, and it was the same thing. Bowles had to find crazy ways to get these guys on the field, such as using Richardson as an OLB because there was too much talent at one position. 

Quote

Darnold IS our chance.  We should have built around him.  Hockenson (a massive mean blocker AND a serious pass catching threat) was the pick.  Yes, even at #3.  He would make a material difference to this team scoring points, protecting Darnold, and creating mismatches vs. Defenses.

Imagine a play, Darnold drops back, and we have Enunwa, Crowder, Bell coming out the backfield, and both Herndon and Hockenson block the release routes?  Darnold could/should be able to throw all day with those mismatches...presuming he is protected.

But no.  We ares till building this team to win/lose 9-6 score games.

Bro, you are on it right now. In the draft threads I've been talking about how we an add to both the blocking scheme and the passing offense with a guy like TJ Hockenson. How many teams are using spread, bunch and max protect formations because they have the right personnel to do so? 

Im just glad that Hockenson didnt make it to the f'ing patriots. I probably would have thrown my computer off my balcony. 

I've literally gave examples of what this Jets team could look like with Bell, Anderson, Herndon and Hockenson...whether in between the 20's or in the redzone. 

 

We just took a DT with the 3rd pick in the draft. 

 

Warfish, mark my words right now. If the secondary, in particular the CB are underwhelming and Trumaine Johnson is let go, I can guarantee that if Macc is still the GM the goal will be to draft a CB in the 1st round only after some top CB used Macc during free agency in order to get a better deal with another team. Something that seems to be trending with the likes of Suh and Barr. 

 

Insane 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Xtina said:

The market is what it is for any particular year. Last year our 6th was more valuable than this year’s third. It was a buyer’s market. The draft value chart is only a guideline. We way overpaid last year according to it. 

And I love how people “know” what offers Mac got and refused 

I'm amazed that the Johnson's don't contact Max for introductions to the obvious genius GM's on this board.. SNY did a poll on what Jet fans thought of the pick and it was 92% positive.. On this board it around 20% or less maybe??:-k   

  • Upvote 2
  • Post of the Week 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually try to bite my tongue but the whine level has reached ridiculous and I'm still emotional over the late screening of End Game so I'm going to have feelings out loud now.  Regarding the hue and cry over the pick, I would break it into three broad categories.

1) People who think Ed Oliver is 100% the next Aaron Donald and who are mad that the Jets took a different DT who 99% of the football world thinks is the better prospect at the same position.  It's one thing to have a strong opinion that you like Oliver more, but to say this was a colossal mistake because they drafted the wrong guy is a lethal combination of ignorance (because nobody KNOWS) and arrogance (because you can't imagine being wrong but football forum history in general suggests you probably are).  

2) People who think Macc should have traded down without regard to whether a realistic deal was there to be made.  There was no significant trade-up for a QB this year.  Teams waited and the QBs fell to them.  Weird yes, but WAS was proved to be right by not trading up.  Even BUF who was rumored to want to trade up for Oliver waited and he fell to them.  There was enough dumbassery in this draft (NYG) to allow teams to get great picks without moving up.  It sucks but you can only play the cards in your hand.  I'd rather draft a player at 3 than trade down for a fraction of what it should be worth.  We don't know what the offers were but evidence suggests they weren't good so it's really disingenuous to blame a GM for not trading down.

3) People who think we shouldn't have taken a DT no matter what.  This one is probably the most tethered to reality.  Particularly because on the surface, there seemed to be a good argument for Josh Allen over QW based on position.  I was/am in this camp.  If asked, I would have said go with JA at 3.  But I am not in possession of nearly as much intel and experience and contact with these players as the Jets front office is.  I can say I disagree.  Sure.  I can even say I think they were idiots.  But I recognize that it's my opinion based on very limited information and there is room for them to be very right and me to be very wrong.

I love this board and fully embrace the passion everyone feels.  I fully support everyone's right to express their opinions loud and proud.  But once in a while, it would be nice to see some people step back from the abyss for a moment and recognize that we drafted a great prospect, who no matter what the scheme fit problems he may appear to present, is a player that could be as transformative as any other in this draft class, and that we have a DC who we have reason to believe is good at his job and will find a way to get him into situations where he can become the player you expect in a top-5 draft pick.  

Macc deserves a ton of criticism for his drafting record.  No question.  But this pick is not the sword to fall on here.  What he does the rest of the way is probably going to be much more telling.  

TL/DR:  Quinnen Williams is a great prospect, and if he lives up to his potential under GWs tutilege, may become the kind of player we all love to have as a Jet.  No matter how you feel about the pick, he is a Jet and he may become a great one.  Take a moment to appreciate how good he was last year and how good he might become this year.  This is the season of hope, people.

TL/DR - part 2: If you are a Giants fan reading this, none of it applies to you.  Your GM is an idiot.  You have no hope.  Sorry about that.

  • Upvote 2
  • Post of the Week 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

How much of that can be attributed to Alabama fielding an all star team every season? QWill looks good on tape, sound technique etc. The issue is he's an at best "good" athlete and using the 3rd pick on a guy who's not in any top percentiles for athleticism generally doesnt work out for interior pass rushers. Williams will be a starter, I just question the use of resources that high and his ability to get sacks and TFL's in the NFL.

Aaron Donald, Fletcher Cox, Grady Jarrett were all better athletes. 

Yep, he really is just Leo part deux in every imaginable way.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I usually try to bite my tongue but the whine level has reached ridiculous....

Generally a good post, let me say that up front and first.

But I take issue with supporters of the pick (and others) whining about other folks supposed whining.

No one is "whining". 

People are passionately debating the merits and pro/con of a massive investment of draft capital into (at the very least) a questionable/debatable decision to draft another Defensive player and a another DT at that.

Disagreement and debate does not equal "whining".  And every Fan is entitled to their opinion on a move of decision by their team.  Too many folks here seem to want this place to be like the Pats Fan Forum, where it's "be positive or get banned" as someone last night suggested here ffs.

Just stop.  If folks want to debate, let them.  If you support it, that debate shouldn't effect you anyway.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Why does a guy this amazing only start one year?

Bama got talent.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too bad we still need a CB after drafting Parry Nickerson, Derrick Jones, Jeremy Clark, and Juston Burris. Shame not one of those guys could have been developed by the coaching staff over the past 4 years. Hoping Gregg W. can do something on that front. 

If you look back on a draft class and say "Wow we got two starters" a la Revis-Harris, Brick-Mangold, Vilma-Cotch, Sam-Herndon then it's a solid draft... but the constant whiffing on the late round guys and positions of need is painful to watch. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Generally a good post, let me say that up front and first.

But I take issue with supporters of the pick (and others) whining about other folks supposed whining.

No one is "whining". 

People are passionately debating the merits and pro/con of a massive investment of draft capital into (at the very least) a questionable/debatable decision to draft another Defensive player and a another DT at that.

Disagreement and debate does not equal "whining".  And every Fan is entitled to their opinion on a move of decision by their team.  Too many folks here seem to want this place to be like the Pats Fan Forum, where it's "be positive or get banned" as someone last night suggested here ffs.

Just stop.  If folks want to debate, let them.  If you support it, that debate shouldn't effect you anyway.

Some seem to think anything other than mindless concession to everything done is whining.

However, in situations like this, doing otherwise would be dependent on blatantly ignoring mounds of evidence that prove there has to have been multiple horrid failures by these same decision-makers (given the significant investment made at the same position repeatedly in recent years in the draft, FA, and trades).

It'll be funny how all of the supposed "whining" will suddenly become far less frequent when/if the Jets aren't a perpetually terrible NFL team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Macc is the penultimate example of a GM with no desire to take risks

Who pray tell is the ultimate example? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Generally a good post, let me say that up front and first.

But I take issue with supporters of the pick (and others) whining about other folks supposed whining.

No one is "whining". 

People are passionately debating the merits and pro/con of a massive investment of draft capital into (at the very least) a questionable/debatable decision to draft another Defensive player and a another DT at that.

Disagreement and debate does not equal "whining".  And every Fan is entitled to their opinion on a move of decision by their team.  Too many folks here seem to want this place to be like the Pats Fan Forum, where it's "be positive or get banned" as someone last night suggested here ffs.

Just stop.  If folks want to debate, let them.  If you support it, that debate shouldn't effect you anyway.

Fair rebuttal.  But honestly..have you read this thread?  'Whining' is a subjective term but I think it's a fair categorization of some (certainly not all or most) of the posts.  Your post was one of the more thoughtful ones.  Critical but not hyperbolic.  But terms like 'utter failure' to describe the pick seem not well-considered.  I'd say you could argue that the Giants' pick was an utter failure although Jones could prove that wrong.  You might also argue that Ferrell at #4 was a really bad pick based on pre-draft rankings, but again, hard to say definitively. 

But to call QW a failure of a pick because the arguably best prospect in the draft is a DL and not a 'need' pick is at best, an arguable opinion.  Many GMs feel strongly that you draft talent, not need and that over time, that leads to a better roster.  It's unfortunate, but unarguable that the talent in this draft is DL.  So Allen vs. Williams is a good debate.  Calling the pick an utter failure to me seems a tad whiny.  But that IS just my opinion :)

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Fair rebuttal.  But honestly..have you read this thread?  'Whining' is a subjective term but I think it's a fair categorization of some (certainly not all or most) of the posts.  Your post was one of the more thoughtful ones.  Critical but not hyperbolic.  But terms like 'utter failure' to describe the pick seem not well-considered.  I'd say you could argue that the Giants' pick was an utter failure although Jones could prove that wrong.  You might also argue that Ferrell at #4 was a really bad pick based on pre-draft rankings, but again, hard to say definitively. 

But to call QW a failure of a pick because the arguably best prospect in the draft is a DL and not a 'need' pick is at best, an arguable opinion.  Many GMs feel strongly that you draft talent, not need and that over time, that leads to a better roster.  It's unfortunate, but unarguable that the talent in this draft is DL.  So Allen vs. Williams is a good debate.  Calling the pick an utter failure to me seems a tad whiny.  But that IS just my opinion :)

No real disagreement with you tbqh. 

I am clearly not a fan of the pick (for reasons stated ad neasuem) but as with any and all picks, no one can reasonably call it a failure till we see the kid play and how his play effects the team. 

All we can do now is project and evaluate the on-paper-whole of the roster really.  I've just seen too many attempts to stifle/silence disagreement with the pick, and I think that's something that needed squashed.  Fans are not bad because they disagree with a pick, player or direction the team chooses to go, that's all.

+Rep well earned nyc.

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Fair rebuttal.  But honestly..have you read this thread?  'Whining' is a subjective term but I think it's a fair categorization of some (certainly not all or most) of the posts.  Your post was one of the more thoughtful ones.  Critical but not hyperbolic.  But terms like 'utter failure' to describe the pick seem not well-considered.  I'd say you could argue that the Giants' pick was an utter failure although Jones could prove that wrong.  You might also argue that Ferrell at #4 was a really bad pick based on pre-draft rankings, but again, hard to say definitively. 

But to call QW a failure of a pick because the arguably best prospect in the draft is a DL and not a 'need' pick is at best, an arguable opinion.  Many GMs feel strongly that you draft talent, not need and that over time, that leads to a better roster.  It's unfortunate, but unarguable that the talent in this draft is DL.  So Allen vs. Williams is a good debate.  Calling the pick an utter failure to me seems a tad whiny.  But that IS just my opinion :)

 

The main issue with this logic is it is fully dependent on one concept, that pre-draft rankings from the media are some sort of gospel, and no further considerations should be taken on player selection.  If that were true, the ultimate conclusion would still of course be Maccagnan is simply useless to the Jets (and his scouts along with him), as apparently anyone could google who they should draft.

Quinnen himself could end up being a very good player, I won't deny that, but when considering all of the circumstances surrounding it, that still does not make it a logical draft choice.  The same exact arguments were made in defense of Leo 4 years ago, and the Quinnen selection has further suggested that to be wrong, as many had already believed to be the case.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Yeah, but we did in 2017 for a Safety or something.

i don't know if you've noticed recently but safeties have actually become really important in the NFL...not to mention that Adams has been a complete organizational makeover type player....good as advertised.

would i take Mahomes over him today? sure. would i take mahomes over him coming out? hell no...not from that system and those defenses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone's obsessed with an edge rusher, because we haven't had one in years. We were 26th against the run last year. 24th against the pass. Our defense needs beef and pressure up front. Q is a winner. Give him a chance to work in a Gregg Williams D and relax a bit.

Also, remember - absolutely NO ONE knows anything. No one knows how any player taken above or below a certain player, will pan out. Sports is a crapshoot and there's no easier job on the planet than writing about sports. Just wait and see what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I hope you see the hilarious irony of this post.

I was really, really hoping for his sake he was making a joke there.  But if not, its too perfect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, YankeeJet22 said:

Hey Browns fan, you still sleeping? 'Cause I was awake when Mac was killin this draft. Hows your team doin. 

Hey.

My Browns did okay. Example:

For their 1st round pick instead of picking the best WR in the draft, they picked a top 3 WR in the league in Odell Beckham Jr.

2nd round pick they got Greedy Williams, projected as the best cover-corner in the draft.

3rd round pick they got Sione TakiTaki, a guy who was a tackle machine at BYU.

It's safe to say that im doing okay this afternoon. 

P.S. Polite could be the steal of the draft in terms of talent to draft position. A 3rd round for him is pretty insane....but I called it before it even happened 21 hours ago, hours before the draft started right in this thread below. It was clear to me hours before the pick that if he's on the board in the 3rd round, you run and draft him.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that this has played out through day 2 - if Mac could have convinced Washington that others wanted Haskins and the Giants were not dumb enough to take an unrecruited walk on QB from basketball U

at 15 there were plenty of good options like Bradbury (upgrade at C), and with the Redskins 2nd round pick the Browns selected Greedy Williams (upgrade at CB2)

plus an extra first round pick next year (leave the 3rd round at it was picked) and the Jets would have a draft class of very good prospects aligned with most needs of the team 

QW is a Jet and I support him 100%, that said, I have to ask;

Would you trade LW or QW for a starting Center and CB2 plus another first or even second round pick next year? (assuming worst case huge discount to trade down)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




Content Partnership

Yes Network

Site Sponsor

MILE-Social - NJ Social Media & SEO company
×
×
  • Create New...