Baldy: Wesco Reminiscent of Quentin Nelson

[Integrity28]

21 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Macc isn't anyone want to defend.

But the Redskins got the QB they wanted at 15. The Giants took a second round guy at 6. Trades weren't there ..macc can be blamed for so.much but forcing a trade would have been worse.

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Agree to disagree. If he hadn’t positioned himself so desperate, then the variables change. If that’s the case, who is to say the prospect of moving back 3 spots or whatever is off the table? I fundamentally disagree with his strategy and conservative gutless approach. It’s not just about the hindsight of what the redskins and giants did.

by commanding a ‘kings ransom’ he defectively ended negotiation before it began, and all he really did was posture thru PR that he had more of a plan than same as usual.

[Integrity28]

24 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

IMO he didn’t do those trades b/c he didn’t perceive that his job was on the line.  Last year, he had to find a qb.  

Insane what a little motivation can do for the negotiation.

[Sperm Edwards]

47 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Not true, it was widely reported and verified that he floundered to move up for Wentz/Goff. This is also not the first year we’ve heard ‘tried to tried back but best played fell to them’.

His only successful trade up was for the 3rd best QB last year, and he lucked out and got the 2nd.

Then in the same draft he also wanted to move up to #10 for Tunsil and floundered over surrendering chart value. It only makes it worse that the picks he collectively wouldn't surrender became Darron Lee and Christian Hackenberg. 

[Larz]

Hey look a really positive view of wesco!!

lets cry about it!!!

 

this fanbase is getting super embarrassing 

[Sperm Edwards]

50 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

IMO he didn’t do those trades b/c he didn’t perceive that his job was on the line.  Last year, he had to find a qb.  

That doesn't make it any better. 

In 2016 the Jets were no less desperate for a QB than they were in 2018. Moving up was one of those perfect opportunities for him, as I've brought up a few times before. It would have impossibly solved his 3 biggest problems all at once: Fitz unsigned and making him look like an ass after refusing $15MM payable in year 1, Mo holding out without signing his $16MM franchise tag, team having only Geno and Petty on the roster at QB and in need of restructuring multiple players after the prior offseason's spending spree. Moving up to #1 would have neatly and instantly solved all those problems. Instead he stayed pat, drafted Lee, drafted Hackenberg, gave Mo a giant contract that paid him $37MM over the next 2 seasons, and then re-signed Fitz on (effectively) a 1 year $12MM deal. 

That he should only make a bold move for a FQB when his job was on the line is not a persuasive defense of the GM. Not when the teams who did make that move were in the last 2 superbowls.

[Augustiniak]

24 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That doesn't make it any better. 

In 2016 the Jets were no less desperate for a QB than they were in 2018. Moving up was one of those perfect opportunities for him, as I've brought up a few times before. It would have impossibly solved his 3 biggest problems all at once: Fitz unsigned and making him look like an ass after refusing $15MM payable in year 1, Mo holding out without signing his $16MM franchise tag, team having only Geno and Petty on the roster at QB and in need of restructuring multiple players after the prior offseason's spending spree. Moving up to #1 would have neatly and instantly solved all those problems. Instead he stayed pat, drafted Lee, drafted Hackenberg, gave Mo a giant contract that paid him $37MM over the next 2 seasons, and then re-signed Fitz on (effectively) a 1 year $12MM deal. 

That he should only make a bold move for a FQB when his job was on the line is not a persuasive defense of the GM. Not when the teams who did make that move were in the last 2 superbowls.

From mccagnan s perspective it’s about his own job security. 

[HighPitch]

He looks god! Tough as f

[Adoni Beast]

If Bowles was still the coach I’d hate this pick. He’d literally be a blocking tight end in the run game.

With Gase I have high expectations he will be a weapon in red zone and short yardage play action packages...in addition to his animal blocking skill set. 

This guy is going to get some big chunk plays over the middle of the field, and be a bulldozer for Leveon. 

He is also going to free up Herndon, but forcing LB’s to cover Wesco near the line, creating mismatches with nickel and dime package corners unable to cover Herndon.

 

[Maxman]

4 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Agree to disagree. If he hadn’t positioned himself so desperate, then the variables change. If that’s the case, who is to say the prospect of moving back 3 spots or whatever is off the table? I fundamentally disagree with his strategy and conservative gutless approach. It’s not just about the hindsight of what the redskins and giants did.

by commanding a ‘kings ransom’ he defectively ended negotiation before it began, and all he really did was posture thru PR that he had more of a plan than same as usual.

He was desperate in this draft because he got Sam darnold in the last one. He walked away with a stud defensive player in round one. It isnt ideal from a positional standpoint but the only real mistake he could have made in round one is by taking a bad deal in a trade.

[Integrity28]

11 minutes ago, Maxman said:

He was desperate in this draft because he got Sam darnold in the last one. He walked away with a stud defensive player in round one. It isnt ideal from a positional standpoint but the only real mistake he could have made in round one is by taking a bad deal in a trade.

This is the argument I don't understand.

By my insistence that he should have tried harder, or taken a better path in his strategy rather than broadcasting for months that he wants to move down, other folks here think I'm suggesting he should have taken a bad deal. I am not.

I am saying he went about it all wrong, and he's the reason it didn't happen. 

If you decided MONTHS ago that trading down was your plan A, which they clearly did decide this because it's been widely broadcast that they wanted to trade down... then you don't rest until you find something to make it happen. You don't talk about it for months, and then price yourself out of any real negotiation. My issue here is that Mac is clearly very bad at manuevering around the draft board, just as bad as he is at identifying prospects.

Shoot. He traded up 1 spot for a blocking TE. Come on.

[Maxman]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

This is the argument I don't understand.

By my insistence that he should have tried harder, or taken a better path in his strategy rather than broadcasting for months that he wants to move down, other folks here think I'm suggesting he should have taken a bad deal. I am not.

I am saying he went about it all wrong, and he's the reason it didn't happen. 

If you decided MONTHS ago that trading down was your plan A, which they clearly did decide this because it's been widely broadcast that they wanted to trade down... then you don't rest until you find something to make it happen. You don't talk about it for months, and then price yourself out of any real negotiation. My issue here is that Mac is clearly very bad at manuevering around the draft board, just as bad as he is at identifying prospects.

Shoot. He traded up 1 spot for a blocking TE. Come on.

The argument I don't understand from you is how do you know how hard he tried? This isn't Terry Bradway telecommuting. There is no way to prove that he priced himself out of anything. They are really happy with the player that they got at 3. If they took less than that value to trade, they would have done a bad thing.

It comes down to your first point. You said they could have gotten a similar DT later. Time will tell, but I don't see a lot of people saying that. Everyone seems to say that Williams was the top choice by far and the team is absolutely happy with it.

When you factor in the round 3 draft pick, it softens the blow on not going edge at 1. Granted they have to get these picks right which is why I am not defending Macc. I just say no trades were available even though they wanted them. The Skins got the QB they wanted at 15. Once they felt they didn't have to trade up, trades became tough in round one.

[TuscanyTile2]

36 minutes ago, Maxman said:

The argument I don't understand from you is how do you know how hard he tried? This isn't Terry Bradway telecommuting. There is no way to prove that he priced himself out of anything. They are really happy with the player that they got at 3. If they took less than that value to trade, they would have done a bad thing.

It comes down to your first point. You said they could have gotten a similar DT later. Time will tell, but I don't see a lot of people saying that. Everyone seems to say that Williams was the top choice by far and the team is absolutely happy with it.

When you factor in the round 3 draft pick, it softens the blow on not going edge at 1. Granted they have to get these picks right which is why I am not defending Macc. I just say no trades were available even though they wanted them. The Skins got the QB they wanted at 15. Once they felt they didn't have to trade up, trades became tough in round one.

He has no idea.  It's just one of those things where he feels he can safely criticize Macc for because there's no way of proving him wrong.  (I'm not a Macc fan btw but I just think some of the criticisms are a little ridiculous).

[jack48]

22 hours ago, Mac is a Tool said:

 

I like these clips

[Integrity28]

43 minutes ago, Maxman said:

The argument I don't understand from you is how do you know how hard he tried? This isn't Terry Bradway telecommuting. There is no way to prove that he priced himself out of anything. They are really happy with the player that they got at 3. If they took less than that value to trade, they would have done a bad thing.

It comes down to your first point. You said they could have gotten a similar DT later. Time will tell, but I don't see a lot of people saying that. Everyone seems to say that Williams was the top choice by far and the team is absolutely happy with it.

When you factor in the round 3 draft pick, it softens the blow on not going edge at 1. Granted they have to get these picks right which is why I am not defending Macc. I just say no trades were available even though they wanted them. The Skins got the QB they wanted at 15. Once they felt they didn't have to trade up, trades became tough in round one.

Proof? No. Evidence to suggest? Yes. Absolutely. The term "nobody offered a king's ransom" has appeared multiple times. 

I have no issues with Williams, but contend that we could have gotten Oliver a couple picks later, had we not insisted on "kings ransom". Teams took less than value like crazy the past 3 days. It all comes down to what you value more, than extra 100pts of chart value --- or your plan A.

As for the bold. When I tried hard, I succeed. Hell, when I barely try I succeed, because I try smart. I just think the guy is a putz, basically. 

[Maxman]

55 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Proof? No. Evidence to suggest? Yes. Absolutely. The term "nobody offered a king's ransom" has appeared multiple times. 

I have no issues with Williams, but contend that we could have gotten Oliver a couple picks later, had we not insisted on "kings ransom". Teams took less than value like crazy the past 3 days. It all comes down to what you value more, than extra 100pts of chart value --- or your plan A.

As for the bold. When I tried hard, I succeed. Hell, when I barely try I succeed, because I try smart. I just think the guy is a putz, basically. 

Again, I am not a Macc fan. But saying you succeed more than Macc does is a big stretch. Let's talk just financially. I think he probably makes a little more than you and he isn't even good at his job.    

[Peace Frog]

Geezuz nobody has any idea what was offered.

Fantasize all you want, you’re likely very wrong.  

[GreenFish]

I really like this pick. His floor is Witten. 

[Bomberjet]

2 hours ago, Maxman said:

The argument I don't understand from you is how do you know how hard he tried? This isn't Terry Bradway telecommuting. There is no way to prove that he priced himself out of anything. They are really happy with the player that they got at 3. If they took less than that value to trade, they would have done a bad thing.

It comes down to your first point. You said they could have gotten a similar DT later. Time will tell, but I don't see a lot of people saying that. Everyone seems to say that Williams was the top choice by far and the team is absolutely happy with it.

When you factor in the round 3 draft pick, it softens the blow on not going edge at 1. Granted they have to get these picks right which is why I am not defending Macc. I just say no trades were available even though they wanted them. The Skins got the QB they wanted at 15. Once they felt they didn't have to trade up, trades became tough in round one.

You are right, thinking like this is a bit skewed. They want to sound like they were  next to Mac when he made all the decisions he made just to poo-poo the reasons behind it.  There are many waves of Jets followers that think like this.

But this is irrelevant because Mac was not given the choice to pick his own coach and had to settle for an unknown in Bowles. This makes all the moves he made in player personnel up until Gase pretty much a wash, because Bowles was just plain horrible in using his players that right way , and that's one fact that can't be disputed.  All the rest, as far as what Mac has done with player moves, can't be argued because of this. We'll just have to wait and see what this new coaching staff can do with this present roster.

Maybe Mac is on the hot seat., I can't honestly say - but the fact is the owner fired Bowles , and gave Mac the keys to the new car. That's what matters at this point. Let the 2019 season determine Macs fate.

[Jets723]

34 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Again, I am not a Macc fan. But saying you succeed more than Macc does is a big stretch. Let's talk just financially. I think he probably makes a little more than you and he isn't even good at his job.    

Yup Big Stretch.  I laughed for 10 minutes when I read that lol

[Peace Frog]

34 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

I really like this pick. His floor is Witten. 

So his floor is a Hall of Famer?

I mean, I like the pick but let’s not go crazy here. 

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

He was desperate in this draft because he got Sam darnold in the last one. He walked away with a stud defensive player in round one. It isnt ideal from a positional standpoint but the only real mistake he could have made in round one is by taking a bad deal in a trade.

Ipso facto, drafting Quinnen Williams helps Maccagnan but it doesn’t do much to help the team, which is why is was incumbent upon Chris Johnson to fire Maccagnan with Bowles.

[Maxman]

Ipso facto, drafting Quinnen Williams helps Maccagnan but it doesn’t do much to help the team, which is why is was incumbent upon Chris Johnson to fire Maccagnan with Bowles.

Yes but that didn't happen so here we be.

It's up to Gregg Williams to make the new Williams someone who improves the team overall.

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[maury77]

On 4/27/2019 at 4:48 PM, PS17 said:

Blake Cashman is reminiscent of Ray Lewis

Jachai Polite reminds me of Lawrence Taylor in the sense that he has a serious problem with crack and whores, plus he intends on opening a sh*tty burger place on Route 17. 

[T0mShane]

On 4/28/2019 at 5:00 PM, Maxman said:

Yes but that didn't happen so here we be.

It's up to Gregg Williams to make the new Williams someone who improves the team overall.

Sent from my XT1650 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Imagine putting yourself into a position where only the steadying hand of Gregg Williams is the thing standing between you and and absolute organizational collapse

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

He was desperate in this draft because he got Sam darnold in the last one. He walked away with a stud defensive player in round one. It isnt ideal from a positional standpoint but the only real mistake he could have made in round one is by taking a bad deal in a trade.

Please define "bad deal". Almost all trades are at least close to the draft chart.  Even if it was just 2 spots down to TB, it would have been an additional 2nd pick. I would take Top OL and a 2nd over Williams for the Jets every day. And Mac said he had multiple "offers"

[BettyBoop]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

Please define "bad deal". Almost all trades are at least close to the draft chart.  Even if it was just 2 spots down to TB, it would have been an additional 2nd pick. I would take Top OL and a 2nd over Williams for the Jets every day. And Mac said he had multiple "offers"

Ok, tell us about the deals Mac turned down?

[GreenFish]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

So his floor is a Hall of Famer?

I mean, I like the pick but let’s not go crazy here. 

I was going to go with Gronk as his floor but was like that might be pushing.

J/K. Never actually heard of him. But I like the pick now that I’ve read and watched him. Hopefully he becomes a solid #2 and helps our run game.

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Ipso facto, drafting Quinnen Williams helps Maccagnan but it doesn’t do much to help the team, which is why is was incumbent upon Chris Johnson to fire Maccagnan with Bowles.

So drafting a potential game changing defensive  lineman doesn't help the team because he wasn't a Center, WR or edge rusher. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

So drafting a potential game changing defensive  lineman doesn't help the team because he wasn't a Center, WR or edge rusher. 

That depends. How many potential game changing defensive tackles do you get the chance to cycle through before you change course? 

[56mehl56]

54 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

Ok, tell us about the deals Mac turned down?

In addition the whiners are so fast to just minimalize Q because of the past failures of Mo/Sheldon/Leo. 

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

That depends. How many potential game changing defensive tackles do you get the chance to cycle through before you change course? 

The question should be - How many defensive Masterminds disguised as HC's do we need to cycle through before we find a defensive mastermind that's solely devoted to defense and developing these young players.

[Dcronin]

On 4/27/2019 at 1:28 PM, Jack Straw said:

It would be cool if we drafted a tight end who resembled another tight end instead of one who resembles an offensive f*cking guard.

He calls him "Baby Gronk" here.

[Jack Straw]

1 minute ago, Dcronin said:

He calls him "Baby Gronk" here.

Perhaps he is a "baby Gronk"...but that would be a baby Dan Gronkowski, not Rob.

[Mac is a Tool]

38 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

The question should be - How many defensive Masterminds disguised as HC's do we need to cycle through before we find a defensive mastermind that's solely devoted to defense and developing these young players.

The answer is whatever defensive mastermind gets mac fired

[Integrity28]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

Again, I am not a Macc fan. But saying you succeed more than Macc does is a big stretch. Let's talk just financially. I think he probably makes a little more than you and he isn't even good at his job.    

If all you define success as is how much you make, not the difference you make, or competency you do it with... then I'll concede that. LOL