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Beerfish

The biggest reason Mike McCagnan should be relieved of his duties...

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That chart should be sent to Mac the day he's finally given his walking papers.

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Funny that the Vikings are at the top and their OL was worse than ours last year. 

But yeah, that’s rage inducing. I hope this is Macc’s last Jets draft. 

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3 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Now do you Macc guys get it? This is the prime reason why the man must go. You don't draft your FQB and not draft or sign any OL. You just don't do it. You don't sign scrubs and call it good. You don't trade for 1 guy and think it will be okay. You draft and sign as many OL as it takes. You do it until you get it right. You literally have the fate of the Franchise in your hands in Sam and his development. You don't mess with that. You go all in. Boggles the mind to see that some people don't or won't see it.

Mac is a moron 

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@Beerfish, is this your own research? If so, thanks for taking the time to put it together.

In today's NFL, the OL is the most important position group behind QB. The blatant disregard for putting resources into this unit is mind boggling.

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I don’t understand it either?  They spend all the money and effort scouting trading up for a quarterback Then they do the same for  a elite running back . Only to draft an project OT and almost make no effort to fix the line .. KO is been injury prone.  Maybe they can’t scout Offensive line .. I’m serious 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

 

image.thumb.png.ff136816258c5da1d917ba2c9c2c6818.png

30 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used at least one 2nd rounder on offensive line.

21 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used a 1st rounder on the offensive line.

All of this while drafting Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenburg and finally Sam Darnold to be the teams new young QB.

The offensive line has more position spots on every down than any other position (5)

Just a pathetic dereliction of duty. 

And for those who try and rationalize his lack of oline priority by saying he fills via trades and free agency, every team fills holes that way.  But you always over pay for older vets with issues and those really good players who are young enough in FA there is big competition for.

Think back to the good Jets teams of the last 15 years or so, good to great olines. 

I like the man, he seems nice.  He's a terrible GM.  Fire him already before Sam Darnold is in a cast.

Where are the Jumbo Elliots, Pete Kendalls, DAve Szotts, Alan Fanecas and Kevin Mawaes in this unfolding disaster? Solder last year and Paradis this year were not priorities,  and really Maccagnan should have been on each's doorsteps at midnight on opening day of free agency. No problem with the Bell signing, but goddamn this is craziness. 

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Really can we stop? Seriously? Mac’s negligence on OL is real but I can’t stop thinking this board is filled w a ton of millennials who want instant gratification.... but it’s really filled w jets fans who have become millennials and are 40 yrs old+ it’s an amazing thing to sit back and witness 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

 

image.thumb.png.ff136816258c5da1d917ba2c9c2c6818.png

30 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used at least one 2nd rounder on offensive line.

21 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used a 1st rounder on the offensive line.

All of this while drafting Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenburg and finally Sam Darnold to be the teams new young QB.

The offensive line has more position spots on every down than any other position (5)

Just a pathetic dereliction of duty. 

And for those who try and rationalize his lack of oline priority by saying he fills via trades and free agency, every team fills holes that way.  But you always over pay for older vets with issues and those really good players who are young enough in FA there is big competition for.

Think back to the good Jets teams of the last 15 years or so, good to great olines. 

I like the man, he seems nice.  He's a terrible GM.  Fire him already before Sam Darnold is in a cast.

Fish, it's a nice chart and you would think that a plethora of draft picks dedicated to the offensive line would point to a pattern of  success and winning football, but your chart does not necessarily bear that out.

  Some teams that have spent a premium number of picks on Offensive line have had success, Patriots and Seahawks, while others, Cardinals, Colts[up until last year], Bengals, Lions, have sucked as badly as we have.

Others with strong reputations on the Offensive line, Steelers, Chiefs, Jaguars, Cowboys, have dedicated almost as few drafting resources to the line as we have.  How do you explain that. All this chart proves is that when you do draft Offensive Linemen you have to hit on the pick.  We already knew that.

The biggest reason to replace Mike Maccagnan is the number of missed draft picks during his tenure.  You should be citing those as the biggest reason to fire him.  This chart does nothing towards that end.

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23 minutes ago, funaz said:

Yeah it also explains why the Steelers and chiefs have been so bad the last 5 years

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

It also explains why the Cardinals have THE WORST offensive line yet used the 3rd most picks? I hate stats like these, they tell nothing. 

We also forget there is this thing called free agency to get lineman. 

Drafting O-line is also extremely hard nowadays and truly greats tackles have been very hard to come by outside of the top 10. 

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1 minute ago, Reynolds1029 said:

It also explains why the Cardinals have THE WORST offensive line yet used the 3rd most picks? I hate stats like these, they tell nothing. 

We also forget there is this thing called free agency to get lineman. 

Drafting O-line is also extremely hard nowadays and truly greats tackles have been very hard to come by outside of the top 10. 

It does tell you what a front office prioritizes. And because OL guys are not always plug and play means you have to invest regardless.The bold is not a reason to not pick OL guys at all, in fact quite the opposite. If don't pick any you'll never develop any. 

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13 minutes ago, Titan24 said:

Really can we stop? Seriously? Mac’s negligence on OL is real but I can’t stop thinking this board is filled w a ton of millennials who want instant gratification.... but it’s really filled w jets fans who have become millennials and are 40 yrs old+ it’s an amazing thing to sit back and witness 

What do you want to give him? Another 5 years to finally start building an o line?

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The teams who used 1st and 2nd round picks in the past five seasons on offensive lineman have starters, with very few exceptions (busts like Erik Flowers) . Mac has an aversion to drafting OL, which are actually the most valuable players on the team. 

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18 minutes ago, Titan24 said:

Really can we stop? Seriously? Mac’s negligence on OL is real but I can’t stop thinking this board is filled w a ton of millennials who want instant gratification.... but it’s really filled w jets fans who have become millennials and are 40 yrs old+ it’s an amazing thing to sit back and witness 

Not sure if the 5 years of data you've just been given to digest equates to a our need for "instant gratification", just maybe more of an expectation that Mac shows some competence towards one the most important aspects of the football team. Possibly the most important now that we have a franchise QB to protect.

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Using 3 picks on the oline in total in 5 years when you 100% for sure knew you were making a huge investment in a young QB and the highest being a 3 is a massive issue.  Since this is just macs tenure we don't see the teams that build before that time.

John Idzik used 4 picks on oline in his two years here. 

Being dead last on drafting olineman is total neglect. Teams that have good olines still draft more than the Jets.

Who have we developed in his time here?  Winters?  (Idzik) Dozier?  (Idzik)

A medium level RT coming off a bad injury is his 5 year claim to fame.  After the awful center play we have had the last two years he does nothing at all.

No defense for this king of neglect.  He's used four 6th round picks on CBs, used a 4th and traded a 5th for Cbs.

I didn't say that you didn't have an argument or that your point is not well taken.  I simply said that the chart you presented as proof of your argument does not do that.  And it doesn't. 

There are teams that have drafted a ton of Offensive Lineman on that chart that out and out suck.  There are others that have spent almost as little draft capital on Offensive Line as we have that are perennial winners.  How do you rationalize that?  Look at the chart.

The argument may be a sound one.  The chart offered as proof does nothing to bolster that point. It's as simple as that.

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Miniature linebackers, college QBs who get worse every year, 80 year old DTs and safeties safeties safeties! That's what this idiot wastes picks on, rather than building an o line. Hell, if he hit on 25% of the picks he's wasted on crap, on o line, we'd be set

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So the cardinals are super bowl favorites?

this place has became such a pity party 

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42 minutes ago, funaz said:

Yeah it also explains why the Steelers and chiefs have been so bad the last 5 years

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

They hit on their draft picks. They haven’t needed to spend a ton on linemen. Plus they have amazing QBs. Which is to say, control what you can. Can we control whether darnold becomes the next Namath?  No, but we should do everything we can to facilitate it. 

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Tanny had his faults, but at least the guy knew to prioritize the guys who are on the field the most.

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The chart does NOT show why some teams have been bad while drafting lots of OL (clearly, they drafted badly). The chart does not "prove" anything either way.  It DOES show, partly, why the Jets have stunk so bad, though, in recent years.  What's the record the past three years? Can anyone doubt that lousy OL play is at least a major factor in that?

Last year's two Superbowl Teams each have drafted three times as many OL as the Jets over the past five years.  If there is a single team in the NFL that the Jets should be trying to emulate, it is the NE Patriots. 

 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

 

image.thumb.png.ff136816258c5da1d917ba2c9c2c6818.png

30 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used at least one 2nd rounder on offensive line.

21 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used a 1st rounder on the offensive line.

All of this while drafting Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenburg and finally Sam Darnold to be the teams new young QB.

The offensive line has more position spots on every down than any other position (5)

Just a pathetic dereliction of duty. 

And for those who try and rationalize his lack of oline priority by saying he fills via trades and free agency, every team fills holes that way.  But you always over pay for older vets with issues and those really good players who are young enough in FA there is big competition for.

Think back to the good Jets teams of the last 15 years or so, good to great olines. 

I like the man, he seems nice.  He's a terrible GM.  Fire him already before Sam Darnold is in a cast.

That’s a lotta f*cking numbers. 

I like football players.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Nonsense.  They tell nothing?  I could care less what the top teams are listed.  I care about the Jets, dead friggin last in pick used.  They don't eve try and pick these guys, they use massive picks on mid tier WRs and later round CBs and don't even try to get oline.

If you don't see an issue with being last in the league in oline draft resources I don;t know what to tell you.

I would have a much bigger problem drafting failures vs having quality talent at other positions. You don't draft bad players just for the sake of need. They won't suddenly become good just because you need a guy. 

We could have drafted a lineman with every one of our picks. Doesn't mean we'll be good or even have a good O-line because if the talent isn't there you can't force it to be. 

I would rather have pro bowlers at other positions than mediocre O-line prospects. 

Edit: I want to add that I share everyone's frustration with our O-line problems and I know it is the most important position in football. But there hasn't been a quality draft for O-line since 2014.

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

 

image.thumb.png.ff136816258c5da1d917ba2c9c2c6818.png

30 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used at least one 2nd rounder on offensive line.

21 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used a 1st rounder on the offensive line.

All of this while drafting Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenburg and finally Sam Darnold to be the teams new young QB.

The offensive line has more position spots on every down than any other position (5)

Just a pathetic dereliction of duty. 

And for those who try and rationalize his lack of oline priority by saying he fills via trades and free agency, every team fills holes that way.  But you always over pay for older vets with issues and those really good players who are young enough in FA there is big competition for.

Think back to the good Jets teams of the last 15 years or so, good to great olines. 

I like the man, he seems nice.  He's a terrible GM.  Fire him already before Sam Darnold is in a cast.

Thank you...thank you good Sir!

Your chart is spot on...there are FIVE starting OL men who unless injured play EVERY SNAP.  They protect your most important asset, and until you find a perennial starter at each spot that you can depend on, like a Mangold or Ferguson, you need to invest draft capital on the big fatties.

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37 minutes ago, LinemanCT said:

I don’t understand it either?  They spend all the money and effort scouting trading up for a quarterback Then they do the same for  a elite running back . Only to draft an project OT and almost make no effort to fix the line .. KO is been injury prone.  Maybe they can’t scout Offensive line .. I’m serious 

That's the funniest thing about KO. People praise Mac for getting us a Pro Bowler, but he's not. He's an injury-prone, FORMER Pro Bowler. I still like the acquisition, but it doesn't move the needle towards our OL being what it needs to be. 

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