The biggest reason Mike McCagnan should be relieved of his duties...

[14 in Green]

Ah yes, another why we should "fire Macc" thread! Even better, one where we can lament the OL situation also. Two things we rarely get to do here!

This place is exhausting. The draft just ended and the site is full of nothing except negativity.

Why can't we ever talk about what the team did well this offseason in FA or maybe with a draft pick or two? Why must it always be the same old s**t every day wrapped in a new box? 

[TheClashFan]

"I would rather have pro bowlers at other positions than mediocre O-line prospects"

 

False dilemma.  It's not an either/or.  Oh yeah, and how many Pro Bowlers at other positions did the Jets have this past year? One. How many of Mac's picks over the past 4 years have been Pro Bowlers?

(sorry, need to learn how to use quotes here)

 

[TheClashFan]

2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Why can't we ever talk about what the team did well this offseason in FA or maybe with a draft pick or two? Why must it always be the same old s**t every day wrapped in a new box? 

This is just one thread. You could start a positive one.

But hey, I'll bite.  I liked the two third round picks this year and the TE pick.  I liked 3 of the picks this year, one of which was an OT. I liked the Osemele trade.

And the reason for negativity?  Maybe how bad the team is nearly year after year?  When was the last Super Bowl the Jets were in?  When was the last time it was in the playoffs?  What's the record been in recent years? 

[dcJet]

1 hour ago, PCP63 said:

I still remember Brick - Faneca - Mangold - Moore - Woody. That lineup happened, right? 

That great line was wasted on Sanchez.  Just average QB'ing gets us a couple super bowls appearances there.

[TheClashFan]

IIRC, the Jets cut Faneca after Sanchez's first year, to save money.  Then Woody retired the next year, to be replaced by backup Wayne Hunter (rather than drafting one or signing a quality replacement), probably the worst starting OT in Jets history. 

The Jets' Cheapskate philosophy on OL can be dated back to all this...even further back than Mac!

 

[Beerfish]

10 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Ah yes, another why we should "fire Macc" thread! Even better, one where we can lament the OL situation also. Two things we rarely get to do here!

This place is exhausting. The draft just ended and the site is full of nothing except negativity.

Why can't we ever talk about what the team did well this offseason in FA or maybe with a draft pick or two? Why must it always be the same old s**t every day wrapped in a new box? 

We want to have a long term winning football team.

The direction the GM has taken and is taking is not going to get us there.

It is really that simple.

[freestater]

Dont worry...the rebuild will start taking shape when Sam is hitting his first FA contract and costs 40+mil a year 

[14 in Green]

42 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Fish, it's a nice chart and you would think that a plethora of draft picks dedicated to the offensive line would point to a pattern of  success and winning football, but your chart does not necessarily bear that out.

  Some teams that have spent a premium number of picks on Offensive line have had success, Patriots and Seahawks, while others, Cardinals, Colts[up until last year], Bengals, Lions, have sucked as badly as we have.

Others with strong reputations on the Offensive line, Steelers, Chiefs, Jaguars, Cowboys, have dedicated almost as few drafting resources to the line as we have.  How do you explain that. All this chart proves is that when you do draft Offensive Linemen you have to hit on the pick.  We already knew that.

The biggest reason to replace Mike Maccagnan is the number of missed draft picks during his tenure.  You should be citing those as the biggest reason to fire him.  This chart does nothing towards that end.

Ok, so this morning I get a call inviting me to play some golf this afternoon on one of the best courses down here. It was a beautiful day, so I said "why not, there won't be much happening with the draft." I played pretty well, then went out with the guys for a nice steak dinner.

Got home about 8pm, and decided to catch up on the draft thread and what do I see? Smoking Joe, ready to rumble! Man, you killed it today, LOL. Took on some big names. Come one, come all. Took them all down.

Nice job buddy. Now let's get some runs here against Milwaukee.

 

[ZachEY]

55 minutes ago, Titan24 said:

Really can we stop? Seriously? Mac’s negligence on OL is real but I can’t stop thinking this board is filled w a ton of millennials who want instant gratification.... but it’s really filled w jets fans who have become millennials and are 40 yrs old+ it’s an amazing thing to sit back and witness 

Instant gratification?  He’s been at this for half a decade.

[freestater]

Joe Caporoso (@JCaporoso) Tweeted:
#Jets drafted a player who had surgery on both shoulders and a player who had knee surgery twice https://twitter.com/JCaporoso/status/1122295098585362432?s=17

[Sonny Werblin]

40 minutes ago, freestater said:

Tanny had his faults, but at least the guy knew to prioritize the guys who are on the field the most.

You hit on a C and a LT with first round picks in one draft and you've solved two of the team's most important positions for a decade or more.

[14 in Green]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

We want to have a long term winning football team.

The direction the GM has taken and is taking is not going to get us there.

It is really that simple.

I don't think it is that simple my friend. I actually think we're heading in a pretty good direction.

I get it, though, A lot of us wanted the GM gone along with TB, but it didn't happen, and its not going to. At least for a couple of years. I also know his first three years weren't great, but last offseason was pretty good, and this one was better, so Macc isn't getting worse, he's getting better. Whether that will be good enough, who knows?

It's your choice man, you can look for the positive, or dwell on the negative. You're a smart guy. Why you'd choose the latter and let it eat you up inside doesn't make sense. I honestly think things are turning around, and feel pretty good about it. I'm hoping you and a lot of others can start to see it sometime this fall.

[freestater]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

You hit on a C and a LT with first round picks in one draft and you've solved two of the team's most important positions for a decade or more.

Or....and hear me out here....you can quadruple down on interior d line year after year!

[Sonny Werblin]

If I'm Chris Johnson I want to know how we came out of this draft without addressing the team's biggest need.... Center.

Seriously, how is that possible? Is there a plan Z? Cause plans A through Y have not produced an NFL starting caliber Center.

[14 in Green]

34 minutes ago, TheClashFan said:

This is just one thread. You could start a positive one.

But hey, I'll bite.  I liked the two third round picks this year and the TE pick.  I liked 3 of the picks this year, one of which was an OT. I liked the Osemele trade.

And the reason for negativity?  Maybe how bad the team is nearly year after year?  When was the last Super Bowl the Jets were in?  When was the last time it was in the playoffs?  What's the record been in recent years? 

Trust me, I know, been following this team from the year before Namath got here.

My point is we all know what Macc's faults are. We talked about it for years. Ok, maybe he should've been fired, but he wasn't. Man up, deal with it. We didn't get our way. He's gonna be here at least a couple more years. End of story.

The team has been horrible, who can argue that? But last year we got the guy everyone keeps telling me is going to be a great QB, and we had a damn good offseason this year. If you thought we'd fill every single hole on the roster in one year, you were dreaming, but we came damn close. 

Again it's your choice. You want to keep banging your had against the wall complaining about Macc? Go ahead. All you're going to get is a headache.

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

 

30 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used at least one 2nd rounder on offensive line.

21 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used a 1st rounder on the offensive line.

All of this while drafting Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenburg and finally Sam Darnold to be the teams new young QB.

The offensive line has more position spots on every down than any other position (5)

Just a pathetic dereliction of duty. 

And for those who try and rationalize his lack of oline priority by saying he fills via trades and free agency, every team fills holes that way.  But you always over pay for older vets with issues and those really good players who are young enough in FA there is big competition for.

Think back to the good Jets teams of the last 15 years or so, good to great olines. 

I like the man, he seems nice.  He's a terrible GM.  Fire him already before Sam Darnold is in a cast.

Nailed it. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

44 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Ok, so this morning I get a call inviting me to play some golf this afternoon on one of the best courses down here. It was a beautiful day, so I said "why not, there won't be much happening with the draft." I played pretty well, then went out with the guys for a nice steak dinner.

Got home about 8pm, and decided to catch up on the draft thread and what do I see? Smoking Joe, ready to rumble! Man, you killed it today, LOL. Took on some big names. Come one, come all. Took them all down.

Nice job buddy. Now let's get some runs here against Milwaukee.

 

Glad that you had a better day than I did.  Only one thing better than Golf and Steak, right?  Hope it was great.  Got tired of watching the "Usual Suspects" trolling on @Jets723 for the past couple of days.  Made a few "observations" and it was on.  Funny thing about maggots, they're bountiful and persistent.  No biggie.

  It's a Bizarro World where if you're somewhat positive, that makes you the enemy, and requires that you be censured and vanquished.  Not going to happen.  If you're miserable, nasty and skeptical, you're cool and enlightened.  Strange.  

Anyway,  thanks for the support.  There's a few of us anyway.  Shame that it is like that though.  Whatever...  Take care, keep on swinging.

[JetFaninMI]

2 hours ago, Titan24 said:

Really can we stop? Seriously? Mac’s negligence on OL is real but I can’t stop thinking this board is filled w a ton of millennials who want instant gratification.... but it’s really filled w jets fans who have become millennials and are 40 yrs old+ it’s an amazing thing to sit back and witness 

Man you have to be kidding me. Instant gratification? How about some illumination? As in shed some light on the reason why Macc should be kept? Why should you keep a man who's draft picks are basically a joke? Who's teams have won 14 games over the last 3 years? Who cannot draft a friggin OL to save his life? Give me the  logical reasons for the that or keep quiet.

 

[jamesr]

Minnesota drafted a center in round 1 this year because the guy they drafted in round 3 two years back isn't any good at playing center. 

More picks is not the same as good picks.

Sadly, we don't do quantity OR quality. 

[NeeelyWeeelyUK]

Playing devil’s advocate - say that the OL targets are drafted by others and the team feel that the depth of talent isn’t great, surely that would dictate who is picked in the draft rather than an aversion. 

[jamesr]

4 out of 32 teams have drafted a center in the first round in the last 5 years.

11 out of 32 teams have not drafted a center at all in the last 5 years.

So what does that tell us about the center position? If anything?

[jgb]

 

7 hours ago, funaz said:

Yeah it also explains why the Steelers and chiefs have been so bad the last 5 years

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

I understand what you are saying but the Steelers and Chiefs have hit in a major way on skill positions. Macc has ignored the OL while largely whiffing in the draft outside of a (I hope) future franchise QB and some solid players drafting at the very top of the first round.

Maybe it doesn't matter so much what positions are drafted how often but rather what the hit rate and home run rate are for the picks one does choose.

My gut tells me OL has a lower bust rate than most positions but I have no proof of that and could be completely wrong.

[Scott Dierking]

Those teams that have drafted 3 centers in 5 years must be nailing it.

[Kleckineau]

I am all for dumping Macc however the above list is the perfect example of molding stats to support an agenda. How about the additions of Beachum, Osemele and Edoga? Also Dallas is way down on that list near the Jets and have one of the top rated O-lines.

[southparkcpa]

8 hours ago, PCP63 said:

I still remember Brick - Faneca - Mangold - Moore - Woody. That lineup happened, right? 

I remember the pro bowl that year...3 FRIGGIN NY JETS on the OLINE!   

[Villain The Foe]

10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

 

30 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used at least one 2nd rounder on offensive line.

21 of the 32 teams in the league in his five year tenure have used a 1st rounder on the offensive line.

All of this while drafting Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenburg and finally Sam Darnold to be the teams new young QB.

The offensive line has more position spots on every down than any other position (5)

Just a pathetic dereliction of duty. 

And for those who try and rationalize his lack of oline priority by saying he fills via trades and free agency, every team fills holes that way.  But you always over pay for older vets with issues and those really good players who are young enough in FA there is big competition for.

Think back to the good Jets teams of the last 15 years or so, good to great olines. 

I like the man, he seems nice.  He's a terrible GM.  Fire him already before Sam Darnold is in a cast.

I've said this for years, even going back before Macc. But to see this level of abandonment next to the rest of the league over the past 5 drafts makes it even worse. 

It's clear that he holds little to no value with the offense line, yet he's had the opportunity to draft 3 quarterbacks.

This is the Johnson's fault more than anyone.

 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

4 out of 32 teams have drafted a center in the first round in the last 5 years.

11 out of 32 teams have not drafted a center at all in the last 5 years.

So what does that tell us about the center position? If anything?

It tells us that 67% of teams thought that it was wise to draft atleast 1 Center over the past 5 seasons.

That 67% does not include the Jets and yet the jets have had arguably the worst Center production in the league over the past 3 seasons.

[pdxgreen]

I am not going to bash Macc for OL this time.  It was obvious he was aiming for Conor McGovern and the guy just wasn't available.  The problem is it's hard to get a read on Edoga.  The USC line is such a sh*t show and some fans think it's players as well as the coaches... others think just Helton's crew.  Center is a position that takes a bit of coaching up too and from the exit interview it didn't seem that Macc liked what was there.  I still think he lives or dies by this draft.

[Jetsplayer21]

9 hours ago, funaz said:

Yeah it also explains why the Steelers and chiefs have been so bad the last 5 years

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

They both have had very good OL rankings “mac boy” the past few years. When you draft can’t miss studs like mangold, dbrick, David DeCastro early in a draft, you don’t have to draft OL often. OL was a weakness when Mac walked in the door, instead of addressing it he has just made it worse. It will be the reason why he is fired. Johnsons bros won’t like seeing their prized qb get hit often, or our stud rb stuffed, because Mac loves “ bpa “ it is no surprise, gms reach for OLs and pass rushers.. We don’t draft them because Mac won’t reach for them, why he has taken a record number of D tackles

[Scott Dierking]

Somewhere, on some NFL board, there is a poster named LagerTrout. He is bemoaning his GM's lack of investment in Defensive Line and abandonment in investment in that critical area of need.

LagerTrout diligently conducts research of the past 5 drafts and creates a detailed list of teams that have spent in that area with picks. I can be fairly certain that LagerTrout's chart will show the NY Jets near the top of that investment area.

So, what have we proven?

Listen, am I enamored with Macc's investment in this area? No. But, there are more than one way to skin a cat. He obviously believes in a development program in that area, and low capital investment. He will have to be accountable for his results.

[nico002]

Lol if anything your chart proves the there is very little relationship between OL draft investment and winning/quality of OL.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, Kleckineau said:

I am all for dumping Macc however the above list is the perfect example of molding stats to support an agenda. How about the additions of Beachum, Osemele and Edoga? Also Dallas is way down on that list near the Jets and have one of the top rated O-lines.

Lol brah. Let me break down why cowboys aren’t on that list, but yet have best OL year in yr out. 3 pro bowlers. All picked in first round by cowboys in 11, 13, 14. So think mangold, dbrick, and even a 3rd stud OL picked in first round. You don’t have to touch it for years. Now if you want to put some of blame of izdik, for also not touching       Drafting OL early too, fine. But as soon as Mac walked in the door he should have seen  OL patchwork needed some solid youth. Instead he ignored it every yr. 

[Jetsplayer21]

7 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Lol if anything your chart proves the there is very little relationship between OL draft investment and winning/quality of OL.

Read above ?

[jetsfansince7]

Now do you Macc guys get it? This is the prime reason why the man must go. You don't draft your FQB and not draft or sign any OL. You just don't do it. You don't sign scrubs and call it good. You don't trade for 1 guy and think it will be okay. You draft and sign as many OL as it takes. You do it until you get it right. You literally have the fate of the Franchise in your hands in Sam and his development. You don't mess with that. You go all in. Boggles the mind to see that some people don't or won't see it.

So with the third pick in the first you would have taken an o lineman? Which one? No trading partners showed up to trade down

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Kleckineau]

10 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol brah. Let me break down why cowboys aren’t on that list, but yet have best OL year in yr out. 3 pro bowlers. All picked in first round by cowboys in 11, 13, 14. So think mangold, dbrick, and even a 3rd stud OL picked in first round. You don’t have to touch it for years. Now if you want to put some of blame of izdik, for also not touching       Drafting OL early too, fine. But as soon as Mac walked in the door he should have seen  OL patchwork needed some solid youth. Instead he ignored it every yr. 

Lol

Jerry Jones is a better GM than Macc.