Ian Rapoport implies Jets believed Jachai Polite was a better pass rusher than Josh Allen

[Jetmech]

Not sure why it’s a surprise his game performances speak for themselves. Seems like everyone who hated on Bosa were Josh fans.

Jets take Bosa if he was there.


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[BroadwayJoe12]

4 minutes ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

Or his numbers were disastrous because of his hamsting injury, and when healthy he'll be fine.

He rushed into putting on the weight for the combine and hurt himself running.

This does not mean he can't do it, perhaps with proper preparation, training and supervision he can.

Sure, that's a possibility. Another possibility is that his frame cannot support extra weight and still maintain his athleticism. We have more data pointing towards one of these scenarios. But you keep that hope alive. 

[Ghost]

Coming from the guy that had Hack ranked so high on his board. 

[sec101row23]

51 minutes ago, maury77 said:

To be fair, I've read others who, before the draft, also believed Polite was more developed as a pass rusher than Allen. 

Agreed.  If the draft was held two weeks after the college season ended, Polite probably goes mid first round.  His tape was that good.  His problem was that there is 5 months between the end of college ball and the draft.   Polite had a rough Pre-draft process to say the least.  They just need to give this kid a plan, and see that he sticks to it.  

[BROOKLYN JET]

13 minutes ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

Sure, that's a possibility. Another possibility is that his frame cannot support extra weight and still maintain his athleticism. We have more data pointing towards one of these scenarios. But you keep that hope alive. 

The data you are clinging to was gathered while he was injured.

It's also possible that he can without the injury.

Certainly not every injury is due to lack of frame support.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, derp said:

Fair point. I think the athletic testing you can basically throw out the window. He clearly had a bad hamstring, got bad advice and got too heavy, but he looks fast when you watch him. When I watched someone like Jarvis Jones coming out of Georgia years ago I expected him to test poorly and he did. Polite testing poorly was a surprise and I think it had multiple reasons.

The character issues...no documented major off field stuff. Seemed thoughtful in his interview at the Pro Day. This is where we see what CJ Mosley does I guess. I’m okay rolling the dice on the idea that an immature 21 year old can learn a lesson and grow up. I’ll take this one over those other guys.

This is an interesting draft. Maccagnan basically hit a double, swung for the fences a couple of times, and then hit a single. We’ll see how it shakes out. Not sure how much of the draft had to do with him. I don’t think he’s a good GM but I get the Hail Mary and hope it plays out. Like it way more than his traditional third round moves.

How much of the testing can we really discount, though? He runs the 4.84 at the Combine where he shows up fat and claims he pulled the hammy ten days prior, then over a month later runs a 5.01/40, is still a physical mess, then pulls himself out of drills and blames “bad advice,” like he’s not aware of what goes on at the Combine? It’s just eyebrow raising stuff. But, like you said, wait and see. Not too many of these guys who come into the league as trainwrecks ever find it within themselves to commit to a course correction once they drop their signing bonus on a leased Bugatti, but here’s hoping. 

[T0mShane]

As for the Justin Houston comparison, Houston put up one of the better Combine performances for an EDGE, ever, at 270 lbs. 

 

[BroadwayJoe12]

38 minutes ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

The data you are clinging to was gathered while he was injured.

It's also possible that he can without the injury.

Certainly not every injury is due to lack of frame support.

The difference is, he hasn't shown the ability to do what you are suggesting. Limited as it may be, the only thing we know of Polite at a greater weight than his playing-weight, is he either injured himself and then performed poorly, or performed poorly and then injured himself. We have absolutely no data suggesting your scenario is likely. All the other scenario has going for it, is hope. And you can hope in one hand and sh*t in the other, see which gets filled up first. 

[jack48]

2 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

I assume the first is Bosa so Jets believed Polite was a better pass rusher than Josh Allen

 

Not far fetched.  Allen is a better all around player.  But that first step of Polite's is quicker than his. They say Jacha has to strengthen his lower body to bend around the OT.  They may have a hard time touching him. One is a 3 down guy. One is not

[jgb]

Shonne Greene is a first round talent.

I’ll buy a round for any player who, within a week of the draft, the team admitted was a reach and not a steal.

[BROOKLYN JET]

3 minutes ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

The difference is, he hasn't shown the ability to do what you are suggesting. Limited as it may be, the only thing we know of Polite at a greater weight than his playing-weight, is he either injured himself and then performed poorly, or performed poorly and then injured himself. We have absolutely no data suggesting your scenario is likely. All the other scenario has going for it, is hope. And you can hope in one hand and sh*t in the other, see which gets filled up first. 

All I'm saying is it's certainly not out of the relm of possibility.

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Totally agree with you that it’s fine to gamble on a high-end edge guy. The hesitation I have with this one is with Polite’s apparent history of character issues combined with the athletic testing. I think you can overcome one but not both. If he’s just immature, I guess they can wait him out, but then again you’re about to make an immature kid who flamed out in Gainesville fairly rich and bring him to NYC. If he pans out, he alone probably keeps Macc employed for another three years. 

Burfict went undrafted after he essentially pulled the same thing. Probably the best case for a tape/combine being totally disjointed.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Burfict went undrafted after he essentially pulled the same thing. Probably the best case for a tape/combine being totally disjointed.

I suppose, but I think it’s easier to prosper as a fat, slow ILB with anger issues than it is to prosper as a fat, slow edge with accountability issues. 

[Mogglez]

Low-key felt that way too.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I suppose, but I think it’s easier to prosper as a fat, slow ILB with anger issues than it is to prosper as a fat, slow edge with accountability issues. 

Which is curious, because the fat, slow redhead with accountability issues is kinda right in your wheel house. 

[flgreen]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Burfict went undrafted after he essentially pulled the same thing. Probably the best case for a tape/combine being totally disjointed.

The combine is what it is, Overrated.

It's more of an opportunity to interview these guys under stress then anything else.

If you watch tape and see great game speed from a player, like you do with Polite, who cares what he runs in his underwear.

Polite's problem is maturity.  Hopefully he'll get over it, and NYC won't melt his brain any further.  

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

Which is curious, because the fat, slow redhead with accountability issues is kinda right in your wheel house. 

You ****. I have a blazing three cone

[ryu79]

13 minutes ago, jack48 said:

Not far fetched.  Allen is a better all around player.  But that first step of Polite's is quicker than his. They say Jacha has to strengthen his lower body to bend around the OT.  They may have a hard time touching him. One is a 3 down guy. One is not

Yup. Watching Allen's tape so many of his sacks were straight line, unblocked cause he is so fast. I think Polite has more moves, twitch and bend.

He's clearly not as well rounded as Allen - but that's not that Rappoport is referring to in the tweet.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

 giving a 9 year old about $1M and setting him loose in NYC isn't a great idea either.

 

enter drugs and thuggin'

[Vader]

Polite has more moves than Allen and more active in disrupting both passer and passes including active intuitive hands creating forced turnovers and batted balls

he is definitely better value...

[derp]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

How much of the testing can we really discount, though? He runs the 4.84 at the Combine where he shows up fat and claims he pulled the hammy ten days prior, then over a month later runs a 5.01/40, is still a physical mess, then pulls himself out of drills and blames “bad advice,” like he’s not aware of what goes on at the Combine? It’s just eyebrow raising stuff. But, like you said, wait and see. Not too many of these guys who come into the league as trainwrecks ever find it within themselves to commit to a course correction once they drop their signing bonus on a leased Bugatti, but here’s hoping. 

I disagree a little on the trainwrecks. Justin Houston, Danielle Hunter, Everson Griffen were all first round talents off the top of my head who tumbled and figured it out once they got to the league.

The whole predraft process is intended to let teams learn about players. He bombed it. Hopefully it’s a wake up call. We’ll see. Either he was immature and needed a wake up call or there are deeper issues - I honestly have no clue which it is. I do like that he’s not making excuses and going to a hard ass DC on a defense full of vets. Hope he grabs the starting job, runs with it, and keeps his nose clean. He’s the first edge they’ve drafted who I thought was legitimately talented.

[jack48]

21 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

Yup. Watching Allen's tape so many of his sacks were straight line, unblocked cause he is so fast. I think Polite has more moves, twitch and bend.

He's clearly not as well rounded as Allen - but that's not that Rappoport is referring to in the tweet.

I saw some Gholston in the Allen clips.  easy routes to the QB.  Not comparing.  Gholston was the dog of dogs.  But Allen was definitely not as quick off the mark as Polite.  He very well might be stronger

[BurnleyJet]

I'm going laugh when this kid gets between 8-10 sacks and everyone knew he was going to be good

[T0mShane]

16 minutes ago, derp said:

I disagree a little on the trainwrecks. Justin Houston, Danielle Hunter, Everson Griffen were all first round talents off the top of my head who tumbled and figured it out once they got to the league.

The whole predraft process is intended to let teams learn about players. He bombed it. Hopefully it’s a wake up call. We’ll see. Either he was immature and needed a wake up call or there are deeper issues - I honestly have no clue which it is. I do like that he’s not making excuses and going to a hard ass DC on a defense full of vets. Hope he grabs the starting job, runs with it, and keeps his nose clean. He’s the first edge they’ve drafted who I thought was legitimately talented.

Not to quibble, but that goes back to my initial point about character and athleticism and needing one to counter failings with the other. Hunter and Houston both tested off the charts and IIRC Griffen was right up there as well. Unless Polite is secretly freaky athletic, it’s just a tough projection. 

[32EBoozer]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Team That Drafted Leonard Williams, Lorenzo Mauldin, and Dylan Donahue To Rush Passer Gives It One More Ol College Try

?

[Jet_Engine1]

4 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

I'm going laugh when this kid gets between 8-10 sacks and everyone knew he was going to be good

I said in another thread that if hes Bruce Irvin, I'll gladly take my lumps. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

You ****. I have a blazing three cone

Not surprising. Your body has had decades to adapt to the added weight. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

Not surprising. Your body has had decades to adapt to the added weight. 

Another one trying to bait me into posting a shirtless photo. Disgusting. 

cc: @joewilly12

[Barry McCockinner]

37 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

I'm going laugh when this kid gets between 8-10 sacks and everyone knew he was going to be good

"it was obvious to anyone who was paying attention he was a stud pass rusher"

[derp]

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Not to quibble, but that goes back to my initial point about character and athleticism and needing one to counter failings with the other. Hunter and Houston both tested off the charts and IIRC Griffen was right up there as well. Unless Polite is secretly freaky athletic, it’s just a tough projection. 

I definitely don’t think the 4.84 or anything in Polite’s testing is remotely indicative of his athletic ability. I watch him and I see blow by ability, ability to dip and bend, spins inside. He wasn’t getting projected in the teens before he combine because he was a mediocre athlete when people watched him at first. I think Polite with a healthy hamstring and 10 pounds lighter than he showed up to the combine at has a very different pre-draft process from a testing standpoint.

Now by no means does that absolve him of messing up, and it doesn’t make him a steal in the third round either. I think the Jets took him a little before where I thought risk would have met reward under normal circumstances but I don’t like being risk averse on decisions like like drafting someone in the third round and I also think if you’re going to gamble on talent, pass rusher is a nice position for that.

I watched two PFF videos on Polite today, one pre combine and one post combine. The pre combine, guy is talking about how freaky an athlete he is and he’s going to come to the combine in the 240’s and blow things up - and while that’s a little light and there are concerns about him against the run he’s a highly talented and athletic pass rusher in a passing oriented league. Second video post Pro Day the guy is destroying him for coming in too heavy and maybe not being able to carry weight and why he even chose to compete at his Pro Day. 

To me - if he’s athletically the first guy if you cut 10-15 pounds off him and has learned from his mistakes...you got a first round pass rusher. It’s not a surprise he was slow if he got bad advice and came in ten pounds too heavy with a bad hamstring.

Again - none of that absolves him, none of it means he’s a steal or will work out. I think whether or not he’s able to be productive at a playing weight that allows him to make an impact against the run is a big question on top of everything.

Still think there’s a better chance he’s a productive pro than some of the other third round edges who were not that athletic when healthy and not as productive in college but had high motors and good character. Jenkins who has worked out is definitely a Robin as an edge and always has been. 

[BCJet]

Where is our UF poster to give us the full behind the scenes of his character issues prior to the combine?

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, derp said:

I definitely don’t think the 4.84 or anything in Polite’s testing is remotely indicative of his athletic ability. I watch him and I see blow by ability, ability to dip and bend, spins inside. He wasn’t getting projected in the teens before he combine because he was a mediocre athlete when people watched him at first. I think Polite with a healthy hamstring and 10 pounds lighter than he showed up to the combine at has a very different pre-draft process from a testing standpoint.

Now by no means does that absolve him of messing up, and it doesn’t make him a steal in the third round either. I think the Jets took him a little before where I thought risk would have met reward under normal circumstances but I don’t like being risk averse on decisions like like drafting someone in the third round and I also think if you’re going to gamble on talent, pass rusher is a nice position for that.

I watched two PFF videos on Polite today, one pre combine and one post combine. The pre combine, guy is talking about how freaky an athlete he is and he’s going to come to the combine in the 240’s and blow things up - and while that’s a little light and there are concerns about him against the run he’s a highly talented and athletic pass rusher in a passing oriented league. Second video post Pro Day the guy is destroying him for coming in too heavy and maybe not being able to carry weight and why he even chose to compete at his Pro Day. 

To me - if he’s athletically the first guy if you cut 10-15 pounds off him and has learned from his mistakes...you got a first round pass rusher. It’s not a surprise he was slow if he got bad advice and came in ten pounds too heavy with a bad hamstring.

Again - none of that absolves him, none of it means he’s a steal or will work out. I think whether or not he’s able to be productive at a playing weight that allows him to make an impact against the run is a big question on top of everything.

Still think there’s a better chance he’s a productive pro than some of the other third round edges who were not that athletic when healthy and not as productive in college but had high motors and good character. Jenkins who has worked out is definitely a Robin as an edge and always has been. 

What has to happen for him to replicate his one year of production at UF? I think it’s fine if he can drop down to 230 and go after ORT’s, but can you play him full time at that point? Remember, this guy is ostensibly lining up where Jordan Jenkins currently plays and Jenkins is a pretty good player, imo. I really want to be optimistic about this particular pick because you take flyers on guys like this, but there are just soooooo maaaany issuuues that I can’t apply any expectation to the pick. It’s like when I had a man crush on Erasmus James and he flopped for similar reasons. I probably would have taken him off the board after he showed up at his Pro Day out of shape, dropped the 5.01, and blamed “bad advice.” Just too many red flags. 

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Where is our UF poster to give us the full behind the scenes of his character issues prior to the combine?

@JiF is not a fan 

[32EBoozer]

13 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Where is our UF poster to give us the full behind the scenes of his character issues prior to the combine?

I think you are referring to @JiF

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, Ghost said:

Coming from the guy that had Hack ranked so high on his board. 

What would you say if we had the Cards GM. - trading up for Rosen in the 1st round and then trading him for peanuts this year. Point being all Gm's have bad picks in the crapshoot known as the draft . For some reason Jet fans want to hold onto the Hack pick like a twisted coat of arms - let it go.