A lot of talk about "neglecting the offense"

[Peace Frog]

As a guy who wanted to trade out and take Bradbury and the next best tackle, if the value offered to trade back wasn’t sufficient then you don’t do the trade. 

Staying put and taking Q was the 100% right move. 

And MAC further explained his BPA  theory on SNY-you take BPA but if all things are equal or relatively equal you figure in need. 

Like somebody said, you don’t pass up an A+ player for a B player because of need. 

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Except of course for Mac saying he had multiple offers to move down

And?
 

You think if there was a trade worth making, with how badly he wanted to trade down, he wouldnt have made it?

Its obvious that the offers werent worth taking.  You look at the offer, you look at who you think would be available at those spots and if the offer doesn't bring back more than what you can draft with the 3rd, you dont make the trade.  You dont trade just for the hell of it because a couple of fans will be annoyed

[Jets723]

8 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

As a guy who wanted to trade out and take Bradbury and the next best tackle, if the value offered to trade back wasn’t sufficient then you don’t do the trade. 

Staying put and taking Q was the 100% right move. 

And MAC further explained his BPA  theory on SNY-you take BPA but if all things are equal or relatively equal you figure in need. 

Like somebody said, you don’t pass up an A+ player for a B player because of need. 

Exactly. I dont get why many in their own words would pass up a superior player and reach for an offensive player just because they are "sick of" drafting defense.  Look I was all for trading down IF we were getting a big return but obviously that wasnt happening.  

[Butterfield]

My problem isn’t the player, or even the pick, its just that they have no short or long term plan on how to use their resources.  Pretty sad.

[GreenReaper]

5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

This is great as words on a page, but Belichick essentially took Donald out of the Super Bowl.  You think anyone’s actually worried about Quinnen Williams?

Oh yea I do.  He's a recking ball in spite of constantly being  doubled teamed. He and Leo together is a big problem for any OC to have to contend with.

McVay was out coached by Belichick.  Gase in his last 4 games went 2-2 against BB.  And Phins defense was not as good as what the Jets have on D this year. 

I expect Jets to split against Pats this year. Then need to go no worse then 3-2. But probably will need to go 4-1. So yea...it's probably only an outside chance at best.  But the mindset and focus has got to be on Pats and winning the AFCE. It must begin in earnest now.  And slowing down Brady's production is the priority if you want to beat the Pats and win the division.    

 

[The Crusher]

6 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Great take Max.  Maybe we should send some of these guys on vacation, so they could come back with a fresh perspective and start making some sense.

For whatever circumstance that brought him to the Jets, we will soon all be glad that Quinnen Williams is a New York Jet.

I’ll take the month of July. Thanks

[slats]

52 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Another interesting tidbit is that in 2020, before resigning or signing anyone to fill in on offense, the Jets only have about $50 mil in cap space, which is only 19th most in the league. Even teams like the Pats, Giants, Cowboys, and Rams are going to have more money to spend.

Way too early to get too worried about this stuff. Trumaine Johnson and Osemele both have $11M salaries in 2020, Williamson $6.5M, Winters $7M, Enunwa $6M, Roberts $5M, none of which is guaranteed. They have plenty of room to move money around or out there.  

[T0mShane]

Just now, slats said:

Way too early to get too worried about this stuff. Trumaine Johnson and Osemele both have $11M salaries in 2020, Williamson $6.5M, Winters $7M, Enunwa $6M, Roberts $5M, none of which is guaranteed. They have plenty of room to move money around or out there.  

I was just kinda surprised by the opening number. 

[slats]

43 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

This is great as words on a page, but Belichick essentially took Donald out of the Super Bowl.  You think anyone’s actually worried about Quinnen Williams?

The Super Bowl was tied at 3-3 at the end of the third quarter. There was some defense going on there from both teams. 

[Cyberjet]

46 minutes ago, varjet said:

In 2015, Mac took Leo as BPA, arguably the right move barring Gurleys injury.  The next right move was to trade Mo, or not sign him, for the 3/4 Defense.  Mac screwed that up and paid Mo way too much money.  

In 2019, Mac told Quinnen as BPA, arguably the right move, assuming that Mac really did not grade Josh Allen well.   The next move is to trade Leo, or at least not resign him for real money, unless he really turns it around. Polite is really a 3-4 Edge, so they is what we are playing.  We also have Foley, Shepherd, Henry for 10mm and McClendon who we can’t seem to find a way to get rid of.  

In another thread we can go though some of the trade offs Mac made that we should write down and hold him accountable for.  He makes bad decisions and has no comprehension of roster construction.   Watching the Patriots pick players after the Jets who play the same position as the Jets’ pick is just cringeworthy.   

We all know Mac tried his best here, but I think the Johnsons have seen enough to conclude that Mac is not going to construct the roster that Sam takes to the Super Bowl.  At Tanny at least got the end game and urgency of it. Mac just saunters through the process trying to pick BPA.  The whole thing is nauseating to watch. 

FWIW, look at the receivers the Cardinals got got Murray, and the OL the Redskins got for Haskins.  Those are bad teams with a plan.  The Jets are a bad team with no plan. 

If Darnold becomes the star we hope it really doesn’t matter much what philosophy Mac has. A great QB covers for a lot  of ills. 

Brady does it for NE. The Pats won 6 SBs for primarily one reason - Brady. They never had the best OL they never had the best DL they never had that ‘must have’ edge guy(they did it by committee most times and were opportunistic). 

Darnold hopefully will be the Jets’ Brady. Mac has put Darnold in a position to succeed over the next two years. Our OL will be good enough because there Is a new philosophy of offense developing that will make them better. It is now up to Gase. 

[Chrebetfan80]

I dont think the moves are done either.. A lot of noise coming out about trades and moving a few guys now after the draft.  Those offensive line concerns may not be as bad after all is said and done, we'll see where things go. 

[ZachEY]

19 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

Oh yea I do.  He's a recking ball in spite of constantly being  doubled teamed. He and Leo together is a big problem for any OC to have to contend with.

McVay was out coached by Belichick.  Gase in his last 4 games went 2-2 against BB.  And Phins defense was not as good as what the Jets have on D this year. 

I expect Jets to split against Pats this year. Then need to go no worse then 3-2. But probably will need to go 4-1. So yea...it's probably only an outside chance at best.  But the mindset and focus has got to be on Pats and winning the AFCE. It must begin in earnest now.  And slowing down Brady's production is the priority if you want to beat the Pats and win the division.    

 

I would imagine that prep for the Super Bowl is slightly different than prep for a regular season game.  I'm sure he'll be a good player, but he's also a player that can be schemed around with 3-step drops and outside runs.  My point is that people act like we already have Aaron Donald, and that's both untrue, and frankly a poor comparison.  We didn't become an elite defense this weekend.

1 minute ago, slats said:

The Super Bowl was tied at 3-3 at the end of the third quarter. There was some defense going on there from both teams. 

Indeed.  Naturally, anything you say on JN gets extrapolated to the strawman's extreme.  But, the point is that we didn't suddenly draft a guy the likes of which no one has ever seen before.  I hope that he puts up 10 sacks a season and we have a great defense.  I think he'll be neutralized in a lot of situations with quick passing and outside runs.

[T0mShane]

33 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

My problem isn’t the player, or even the pick, its just that they have no short or long term plan on how to use their resources.  Pretty sad.

You can like Quinnen Williams and sympathize with Maccagnan's plight in not trading down but still look at the overall job Maccagnan is doing and acknowledge the team isn't 1. competitive and 2. doesn't appear to be on any viable course to getting better outside of Darnold turning into Tom Brady.

[Ron Rico]

26 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

 

I expect Jets to split against Pats this year. Then need to go no worse then 3-2. But probably will need to go 4-1. So yea...it's probably only an outside chance at best.  But the mindset and focus has got to be on Pats and winning the AFCE. 

 

I anticipate a 2-4 division record 

[CanadaSteve]

6 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Except of course for Mac saying he had multiple offers to move down

And if you didn't like the compensation he received to move down, people would be b**** and moaning that he got fleeced in the deal when he 'could' have taken a top talent like Williams.

Can't win with Jets fans sometimes.

[freestater]

I wasn't disappointed with picking Q. It's later in the draft when we should have been doubling down on OL. Polite is an interesting *could be* prospect, but at that point Macc had used 1 pick since Sam on offense.  Both 3s and the 4th should have been OL, OL, OL. Instead we get Macc getting cute and trading back to pick up a special teams ILB and a reconstructed CB. If we're going to take fliers on guys, I wanted someone to protect Sam.

When Sam is laying on the field, and we're all wondering if his season is done, let me know how important ILBs and depth CBs are.

[Cyberjet]

5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I would imagine that prep for the Super Bowl is slightly different than prep for a regular season game.  I'm sure he'll be a good player, but he's also a player that can be schemed around with 3-step drops and outside runs.  My point is that people act like we already have Aaron Donald, and that's both untrue, and frankly a poor comparison.  We didn't become an elite defense this weekend.

Indeed.  Naturally, anything you say on JN gets extrapolated to the strawman's extreme.  But, the point is that we didn't suddenly draft a guy the likes of which no one has ever seen before.  I hope that he puts up 10 sacks a season and we have a great defense.  I think he'll be neutralized in a lot of situations with quick passing and outside runs.

Yes they will. That says a lot that a team will master plan around one guy. That already makes the Jets a better defense. You have reduced the offenses options. The Jets will adjust and plan accordingly hence the LBs in place. For those who feel the Jets are clueless and without direction or a plan I would disagree. The Jets do have pretty good coaches in place.

[slats]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I was one of those who said Macc didn't do a ton to upgrade the offense.  I guess I should have clarified that I meant more "to help Darnold".  I do think our running game will improve this year.  And I will repeat my point that I think the Jets are going to try to emulate the Seattle Seahawks type of offense this year.  In other words, I think we'll be one of the most run-heavy teams in the league.  That's not to say Sam won't throw the ball around some too but I think the offense is going to go through Le'Veon Bell.  I hope he can survive for a couple of seasons (where he's getting guaranteed money) because I think the Jets are going to abuse him.  

I think you're wrong. Jets are gonna run a lot of three WR and two TE sets and spread the ball around. Bell was signed to catch the ball as much as he was to run with it, which is why they signed a WR/RB hybrid to back him up. They gave a slot receiver $28M over three years because they plan to get him on the field. When Sam spoke at all about Gase's offense, he described it as, "constantly attacking." Their plan is to push the ball down the field. Pete Carroll is on his own. 

[Ron Rico]

5 minutes ago, freestater said:

I wasn't disappointed with picking Q. It's later in the draft when we should have been doubling down on OL. Polite is an interesting *could be* prospect, but at that point Macc had used

When Sam is laying on the field, and we're all wondering if his season is done, let me know how important ILBs and depth CBs are.

I hate to say it but this team is going to ruin Darnold just like they ruined Pennington.

[Cyberjet]

4 minutes ago, freestater said:

I wasn't disappointed with picking Q. It's later in the draft when we should have been doubling down on OL. Polite is an interesting *could be* prospect, but at that point Macc had used 1 pick since Sam on offense.  Both 3s and the 4th should have been OL, OL, OL. Instead we get Macc getting cute and trading back to pick up a special teams ILB and a reconstructed CB. If we're going to take fliers on guys, I wanted someone to protect Sam.

When Sam is laying on the field, and we're all wondering if his season is done, let me know how important ILBs and depth CBs are.

Darnold will be a 2second get rid of the ball QB plus a running game that will slow down the defense. You don’t need all pro talent across the board on the OL to execute this plan. 

[Ron Rico]

4 minutes ago, Cyberjet said:

Yes they will. That says a lot that a team will master plan around one guy. That already makes the Jets a better defense. You have reduced the offenses options. 

LOL Brady  gets rid of the ball in two seconds 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Coquito said:

ruined Pennington.

No.

[Jets723]

9 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

And if you didn't like the compensation he received to move down, people would be b**** and moaning that he got fleeced in the deal when he 'could' have taken a top talent like Williams.

Can't win with Jets fans sometimes.

This

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Cyberjet said:

Darnold will be a 2second get rid of the ball QB plus a running game that will slow down the defense. You don’t need all pro talent across the board on the OL to execute this plan. 

i also think people underestimate how using wesco will also help pass protection.

i also think any center they took after round 1 would not start this year.  

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, Cyberjet said:

Yes they will. That says a lot that a team will master plan around one guy. That already makes the Jets a better defense. You have reduced the offenses options. The Jets will adjust and plan accordingly hence the LBs in place. For those who feel the Jets are clueless and without direction or a plan I would disagree. The Jets do have pretty good coaches in place.

What is the Jets plan?

[Cyberjet]

Just now, Coquito said:

LOL Neady gets rid of the ball in two seconds 

He’s not Darnold. 

[slats]

12 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Indeed.  Naturally, anything you say on JN gets extrapolated to the strawman's extreme.  But, the point is that we didn't suddenly draft a guy the likes of which no one has ever seen before.  I hope that he puts up 10 sacks a season and we have a great defense.  I think he'll be neutralized in a lot of situations with quick passing and outside runs.

I think on defense they do have a plan, and the plan is to be stout and aggressive up the middle. QW, Leo, paying Anderson and Mosley and Williamson with Adams behind them, it all seems to be about getting pressure up the middle because that's become more important in today's NFL than coming around the edge with everyone, not just Brady, looking to get the ball out in two seconds now. I'm sure there will be times when Quinnen will be neutralized, sure, but the idea is that if two people are on him, one of these other defenders in the middle of the dee should be there to make the play.  

Note: I wanted the team to trade down and, if Mac got any offers in the range of the infamous chart, he should've taken one, IMHO. But the truth there is unlikely to ever come out. Stuck at #3, I preferred Oliver but QW was taken to do the same thing. I can't kill that pick. 

[Matt39]

keep in mind the skill player is a blocking tight end

[Cyberjet]

Just now, TeddEY said:

What is the Jets plan?

Spread the field,  use their RBs as receivers, short  timing passes, periods of RBs down your throat. The days of the 7 step drop back are over (maybe once in a while)

i know this because I spoke with Gase. 

 

Nobody knows  what their true plan is but the Jets OL appears to be road graters with enough ability to support a short timing passing game. 

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

 I think on defense they do have a plan, and the plan is to be stout and aggressive up the middle. QW, Leo, paying Anderson and Mosley and Williamson with Adams behind them, it all seems to be about getting pressure up the middle because that's become more important in today's NFL than coming around the edge with everyone, not just Brady, looking to get the ball out in two seconds now. I'm sure there will be times when Quinnen will be neutralized, sure, but the idea is that if two people are on him, one of these other defenders in the middle of the dee should be there to make the play.  

 Note: I wanted the team to trade down and, if Mac got any offers in the range of the infamous chart, he should've taken one, IMHO. But the truth there is unlikely to ever come out. Stuck at #3, I preferred Oliver but QW was taken to do the same thing. I can't kill that pick. 

Sounds reasonable.  Lets see if it works.  This was a bad defense last year and we didn't fix what appears to be the biggest problems with it.

[Ron Rico]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

 

i also think any center they took after round 1 would not start this year.  

That’s been the rationale since Mangold retired. It’s working out real well

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Coquito said:

That’s been the rationale since Mangold retired. It’s working out real well

it is not a justification, just my opinion of what would have happened.

[Cyberjet]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

keep in mind the skill player is a blocking tight end

Also with the 5th round pick they chose Osemele. Not a bad draft.

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

I can’t wait to see how many but fumbles you get for this post! @Beerfishand his cohorts will be coming after you.

I have never given out one butt fumble to anyone.  I almost never give our any down votes.

[Jets723]

14 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i also think people underestimate how using wesco will also help pass protection.

i also think any center they took after round 1 would not start this year.  

Absolutely. Wesco wasnt my first choice but he is gonna help Bell bigtime getting to the outside. Plus I see him and Sam forming a decent threat together