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A lot of talk about "neglecting the offense"


Maxman

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2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I have never given out one butt fumble to anyone.  I almost never give our any down votes.

Just havin' some fun BF..... that's why I brought you into the conversation. No harm meant... you were the first fire MacDaddy poster I thought of. Could have just as easily been T0m Shane.

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6 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

random draft thoughts: 

1.  Macc clearly wanted to move down and ended up with Q.  No-brainer of a pick but the real issue is that no one wanted to move up.    If this was a "generational" player you figure that someone would want to trade up, so NFL GM's think as a whole that Q isn't that much better than the next available DT.  

2.  BPA - what if a C or OG is never the best player available in any given draft?    what if it lasts a decade?   you end of with Jonnatan Harrison as your C...

3.  Polite - I have no issues with the pick.  it's a 3rd rd pick and his play is better than his combine.   He can't be any worse than Macc's other 3rd rd picks. 

4.  Wesco - can they bulk him up to an athletic OT?   

5.  Edoga - OL is a definite need, hopefully the kid can play.   

6.  Lee / Leo - no trade market whatsoever for these 2.   No surprise they are still on the team, I guess with Leo the thought is that Williams will somehow get more out of him.   

Day 3 is always aggravating with Macc.   He tries to get cute and show how smart he is with these mini-trades instead of just identifying talent.   The kid from Rutgers is a bit of a head scratcher.  I doubt he ever makes it to the NFL so that seems like a bit of a waste.   

Other than that, it is what it is.   6 years of drafting futility has created this mess, not sure 1 draft could fix it with a great GM.   I hope these moves work out, still not sure there is a plan.   

My thoughts also .... but thinking more as a Guard.

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10 hours ago, Maxman said:

The point of this thread is because I saw so many people saying the Jets are neglecting the offense.

The Jets Offense has been ranked in the very bottom of the NFL for 6 of the past 7 seasons.  Not average, but horrible.  

10 hours ago, Maxman said:

NOBODY wanted to trade up.

Reasonable to presume.  Doesn't change the metric of questioning if the Offense got the attention in needed to be competitive.

10 hours ago, Maxman said:

So they took Williams and improved the defense which does improve the team.

Does it?  We'll see.  If we're amongst the top 5 in Run Defense, and Williams gets 10 or 12 sacks, sure. 

If we finish in the mid-20's in team defense again, maybe not.

10 hours ago, Maxman said:

Seeing a lot of talk about how it is an offense first leage. That is true, but the Rams are the model that everyone is following and they were basically shut out in the Super Bowl.

But the got to the Super Bowl.  And the Pats, Chiefs and Saints, also elite Offensive teams ranked as best in the NFL.

10 hours ago, Maxman said:

So drafting defensive players is still a requirement lol.

No, it really isn't in a single given year.  It's a choice.

10 hours ago, Maxman said:

As far the offense that was the focus of free agency.

Le'Veon Bell is a guy that can take a significant step back and still be a 1,500 total yards per year back.

A player who took a year off.  Just got paid.  And will not have the benefit of Big Ben, the Steelers O-Line, or one of the best WR's in the NFL.

10 hours ago, Maxman said:

Jamison Crowder he is going to be a big part of this offense in the slot, think 700 - 800 yards per year.

Solid slot #3 WR, no question.

Our #1 and #2, and the unit as a group, remains rated in the bottom portion of the NFL.

10 hours ago, Maxman said:

Kelechi Osemele = huge upgrade on the oline.

A player coming off a major injury and a mostly lost year.

10 hours ago, Maxman said:

We definitely hoped the draft board would fall a different way. But that doesn't mean they did the wrong thing standing at 3. You think Gregg Williams is a little excited about this defense right now? He sure is.

I am sure he is.  

And Jets fans have some cause to be excited about the offense.

But that O-line is a risk, the WR unit is subpar, and Bell.....we don;t know yet what Bell will be here, with us.  We hope, we don't yet know.

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3 hours ago, Coquito said:

I hate to say it but this team is going to ruin Darnold just like they ruined Pennington.

One problem with that theory: Darnold can elevate this team with his talent, where Pennington couldn't because of his lack of arm strength.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

I defended Mac a lot up to the draft because I do think they did a good job this offseason upgrading the offense.  I like the Bell, Crowder, Montgomery, Compton and Osemele moves.  I think all of those moves help this offense and Sam.

The issue is; we're upgrading the offense through FA because he's literally inept when he actually does draft offense.  He's got no pipeline anywhere on this roster other than LB'er.  Dude is a joke.  

After watching the highlight reels on Wesco and Darch, I'm actually pretty excited to see them in action. I don't know how he passes on WR in the draft, though, and only signs two as UDFAs, yet takes a DT at #3 overall and signs another five DL after drafting one in the third round last year, too. 

45 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Is Bell going to be ok with being the defacto 3/4th WR? That was his gripe in Pittsburgh.

I think his only gripe about it was that he wanted to be paid like a WR if he was playing the position. 

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Just now, slats said:

After watching the highlight reels on Wesco and Darch, I'm actually pretty excited to see them in action. I don't know how he passes on WR in the draft, though, and only signs two as UDFAs, yet takes a DT at #3 overall and signs another five DL after drafting one in the third round last year, too. 

I think his only gripe about it was that he wanted to be paid like a WR if he was playing the position. 

the polite highlights are the best.  he should not have gained one pound from where he played last season.  he reminds me of john abraham, just insane first step.

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51 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

Wesco - can they bulk him up to an athletic OT?

Limited sample size, mostly easy tosses, but the dude had an 87% catch rate his senior year. Looks like he has natural hands. Rather than move him to the OL, which, IMHO, would be a huge waste, he'll be a guy who gets snaps at TE and FB. 

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I still don’t agree that we “neglected” the offense.  Do we have a high powered offense like like Kansas City.  Hell no but I really like the moves we made on offense.  I think many criminal underrate the Osemele and Crowder moves. Osemele is really gonna be a big addition to the oline.  Crowder may not be a “sexy” name but he had proven to be productive and he is a good type of receiver for Sam.  As for Bell everyone knows that I wasn’t s big fan of his but I can’t deny his skill set and he will take some pressure off Sam.  We already know Sam has great chemistry with Quincy Robby and Herndon.  I think Sam is the type of talent that doesn’t need bigtime offensive players he just needs guys he clicks with and will catch the ball.  At one point last season Sam was playing with nobody after all the injuries and still looked good. We just gotta make sure Quincy stays healthy that’s a key.  As for Center I understand  the concern.  I wanted Paradis I made that clear but he didn’t want to be in a big city.  Personally I felt Harrison did a pretty good job when he took over.  Do I think he is the answer? No but I think he deserves a shot plus we can still acquire a center before the season starts stranger things have happened.  I guess I tend to be more positive but I feel I’ve been pretty fair.  I would of liked to add a center lik Paradis but  I’m not gonna say we neglected our offense because that’s not true

 

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8 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I still don’t agree that we “neglected” the offense.  Do we have a high powered offense like like Kansas City.  Hell no but I really like the moves we made on offense.  I think many criminal underrate the Osemele and Crowder moves. Osemele is really gonna be a big addition to the oline.  Crowder may not be a “sexy” name but he had proven to be productive and he is a good type of receiver for Sam.  As for Bell everyone knows that I wasn’t s big fan of his but I can’t deny his skill set and he will take some pressure off Sam.  We already know Sam has great chemistry with Quincy Robby and Herndon.  I think Sam is the type of talent that doesn’t need bigtime offensive players he just needs guys he clicks with and will catch the ball.  At one point last season Sam was playing with nobody after all the injuries and still looked good. We just gotta make sure Quincy stays healthy that’s a key.  As for Center I undeRats don’t the concern.  I wanted Paradis I made that clear but he didn’t want to be in a big city.  Personally I felt Harrison did a pretty good job when he took over.  Do I think he is the answer? No but I think he deserves a shot plus we can still acquire a center before the season starts stranger things have happened.  I guess I tend to be more positive but I feel I’ve been pretty fair.  I would of liked to add a center lik Paradis but  I’m not gonna say we neglected our offense because that’s not true

 

Truth is every fan deep down knew it would take 2019 & 2020 offseasons to put together a complete team here. 

How many teams are COMPLETE? With all the stars on the Steelers & Vikings offense, they both MISSED the playoffs. 

We didn't have a 2nd round pick & that's where the value was for Centers. Maybe this Pollack guy can be a factor coaching this group up with Harrison at Center? Coaching matters, the Pats Oline was terrible before Dante Scarnechia came out of retirement. You know who the coach was? GOOGS, the Dude Rex had & BB promptly fired him after that season when Dante came back & lo & behold the Pats line did well again. AFTER letting Solder go & trading for a guy taken in the 7th round. Just better play calling, Sam speeding up his reads & a new Oline coach could be a temendous change for us up front. I'm sure Pollack has been watching film of Wesco. 270Lb TE that can mix it up on the edge is a godsend. Sam should be able to flip flop him depending on opponent & our weakness on the edges. Nobody on this team believed in Bowles. 

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2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

He ALWAYS says that and personally I do not believe him. It is what it is.

The only one who knows what the offers  were is Mac. Anyone who traded up in the first round gave a bunch of garbage as in 4th and 5th round picks. I think the Steelers gave up 1 second round pick and a 2020 third or 4th. I didn't  see anyone  receive a huge payoff to move down, except of course  Mac. He was the guy who was offered a 2020 first rounder and a 2019 second to move back and not select a guy that was at the top of everyone's draft board until Murray ran a 4.3 40

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6 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I would imagine that prep for the Super Bowl is slightly different than prep for a regular season game.  I'm sure he'll be a good player, but he's also a player that can be schemed around with 3-step drops and outside runs.  My point is that people act like we already have Aaron Donald, and that's both untrue, and frankly a poor comparison.  We didn't become an elite defense this weekend.

Indeed.  Naturally, anything you say on JN gets extrapolated to the strawman's extreme.  But, the point is that we didn't suddenly draft a guy the likes of which no one has ever seen before.  I hope that he puts up 10 sacks a season and we have a great defense.  I think he'll be neutralized in a lot of situations with quick passing and outside runs.

So Ted, your take from the addition of Quinnen Williams is that teams are going to base their whole offensive game plan and change their offensive schemes to "neutralize" a single player.  I say good, let them.

  Isn't it the aim of all  effective defenses to take away what the offense does best, and make them do things that they aren't comfortable with or aren't strengths?  If this turns out to be the case, you can be sure that Greg Williams and Co. will be thrilled. 

The rest of the defense will benefit.  That is the greatest effect all premier players have on their teams. They scheme to take one player out of the game, and all others benefit.  That's football.

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All we continue to do is kick the can down the road when it comes to drafting offensive talent.  I'm very glad we grabbed the USC RT and a blocking TE, but its a complete joke that those were the only 2 picks on offense in this draft.

At every turn, Maccagnan has made awful decisions with his draft selections on offense outside of the Darnold pick, which led to our spending spree this past offseason:

2015

  • WR Devin Smith (# 37 overall):  At the time, and in hindsight, this pick was somewhat understandable because of what we hoped Smith would turn into.  But he was a very clear risk pick:  He only made 121 catches in his entire career as a pure homerun threat.  And after all, a bust is a bust. 
  • QB Bryce Petty (4th rounder):  Macc himself said he hoped Petty would turn into a good backup for us.  Meh.  You don't take a QB in the 4th round with a ceiling that low.  The Cowboys took Dak Prescott in the 4th round of the very next draft. 
  • G Jarvis Harrison (5th rounder):  Not much needs to be said about this one.  He was fat and had injury concerns coming out of school. 
2016

  • QB Christian Hackenberg (# 51 overall):  Everyone but Macc knew this kid would be a bust.  Worst draft pick of the Macc tenure.
  • OT Brandon Shell (5th rounder):  3rd best offensive pick of the Macc era, and even then, he's basically a JAG RT.  Still, finding a guy capable of not totally messing up as a starter in the 5th is good value, even if it did require us trading a future pick to get him.
  • WR Charone Peake (7th rounder):  Pure Special Teamer and non-factor on offense. 
2017

  • WR ArDarius Stewart (3rd rounder):  Kenny Golladay, Chris Godwin, Dede Westbrook and Josh Reynolds are among the productive receivers taken after Stewart who are still in the league, whereas Stewart has been out of the league since 2017.  Enough said. 
  • WR Chad Hansen (4th rounder):  Hansen is also out of the league.  It's also worth noting that the Jets could have taken Juju Smith-Schuster or Cooper Kupp instead of Marcus May in the 2nd round.  Awful allocation of resources in this draft. 
  • RB Elijah McGuire (6th rounder):  OK pick here.  Finding a decent backup in the late rounds is a win. 
2018

  • 3rd round:  How is it anything close to justifiable to take Nathan Shepherd, a 25-year old project DT, in the 3rd round?  There had to be a "pipeline offensive lineman" in this spot to take here.  In fact, here's a couple of them who were available:  OT Orlando Brown (started 10 games for the Ravens) and C Mason Cole (started all 16 games for the Cardinals).
  • TE Chris Herndon (4th rounder):  Macc's 2nd best offensive draft pick.  Zero to complain about here. 
  • RB Trenton Cannon (6th rounder):  About what you'd expect out of a late-round RB.  3rd string guy who shows a few flashes of nice play at a plug-n-play position.
 

So out of 34 draft choices, Macc has taken a total of 13 offensive players (38 %), and only 3-4 of those were "hits". 

And this past offseason, this all culminated in a huge offensive spending spree on 2 guys who likely won't be here beyond 2020 (Bell, Crowder), and one who likely won't be here beyond 2021 (Osemele). 

Great job Macc!

 

 

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7 hours ago, Matt39 said:

keep in mind the skill player is a blocking tight end

Not counting the re-signing of their own Offensive Free Agents, the Jets have added approximately 15 new members to their Offensive Team this offseason.  A lot of the teams on the list,  did as well.  Guess those players don't count, do they Matt?  That list is a farce.

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7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You can like Quinnen Williams and sympathize with Maccagnan's plight in not trading down but still look at the overall job Maccagnan is doing and acknowledge the team isn't 1. competitive and 2. doesn't appear to be on any viable course to getting better outside of Darnold turning into Tom Brady.

That's the plan. Everyone asks, what's the plan? The plan is to have an offensive coach & for Darnold to turn into an unstoppable stud. He has Big Ben abilities, can he raise everyone's play around him?

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 This doesn't really have anything to do with anything and may not even be the way the draft went down, but I'm sharing it anyway.

I personally like the fact that our brand new offensive minded head coach signed off on these defensive-centric choices.

It makes me think two things.  1 he's relatively  content with the offensive talent and/or he's confident he can do something with the current offensive roster.

I never understood when a coach with a certain pedigree needed to throw tons of resources to his side of the ball.  Shouldn't a really great coach be able to turn average talent into an above average unit?  

Just my dumb thoughts that aren't really pertinent to this, but I felt like shoehorning in anyway

 

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31 minutes ago, Jetster said:

That's the plan. Everyone asks, what's the plan? The plan is to have an offensive coach & for Darnold to turn into an unstoppable stud. He has Big Ben abilities, can he raise everyone's play around him?

But is that was The Plan, wouldn’t you go into the draft gunning for skills guys and OL? I mean, they drafted Edoga and a backup TE

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I like the positive attitude but this feels a lot like any post that you read after any Draft. Macagnan needs to go if we are not playing lights out football this fall. Secondly, he is not picking for his particular coach and philosophy and even though that doesn’t absolve him, they need a GM next season who can install his own coach and his own vision. 

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