Daniel Jones vs Sam Darnold

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Another long winded piece of nonsense trying to convince everyone that you're not wrong.  And you still are.  Is you want to compare Plunkett to Eli you're so far off that it's not even worth debating.  Only you would bring that ridiculous analogy to a HOF discussion over Eli's long career and Plunkett.  You pretty much prove with these posts that you have no idea what you're talking about.  Again  

Once again you have nothing.  Please move along.

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It is the Hall of Fame.  He is FAMOUS.  He may not have deserved the Super Bowl MVPs but he won them.  He may not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but he will get in. 

Don't be confused by the name, the Hall of Fame is about the greatest players of all time which Eli is not one of. It's an insult to real Hall if famers if he gets in, it diminishes the honor. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

He's not a HOFer

Not today.

But he almost assuredly will be once he becomes eligible.

[nyjunc]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Why are you randomly comparing Eli to Flacco?

They had similar TD to INTs in their last runs, both have been mostly mediocre QBs with flashes of greatness.  On the surface Eli's 2011 is similar to flacco's 2012 but when you did deeper you see how much better Eli's D performed and how much better flacco's O performed.

[nyjunc]

Just now, Warfish said:

Not today.

But he almost assuredly will be once he becomes eligible.

If he ever gets in (I am concerned many will just look at meaningless compiled numbers and not actually remember what it was like to watch him play) it will take a long time.  He doesn't belong but they have let other undeserving candidates in just not one as undeserving as this one.

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Once again you have nothing.  Please move along.

Don't be confused by the name, the Hall of Fame is about the greatest players of all time which Eli is not one of. It's an insult to real Hall if famers if he gets in, it diminishes the honor. 

This is hysterical.  The idea you have that there is some integrity to the HOF voting?  That people really care? 

[Matt39]

15 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

They had similar TD to INTs in their last runs, both have been mostly mediocre QBs with flashes of greatness.  On the surface Eli's 2011 is similar to flacco's 2012 but when you did deeper you see how much better Eli's D performed and how much better flacco's O performed.

I still don’t understand the arbitrary comparison. We are talking about Eli’s career not Flacco’s.

[Jet Nut]

16 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

They had similar TD to INTs in their last runs, both have been mostly mediocre QBs with flashes of greatness.  On the surface Eli's 2011 is similar to flacco's 2012 but when you did deeper you see how much better Eli's D performed and how much better flacco's O performed.

Guess you think one season is the same as a career.  Or that the HOF will happen or won't after completing one season.  The whole world knows Flacco had one amazing season and playoff run.  Lol

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I still don’t understand the arbitrary comparison. We are talking about Eli’s career not Flacco’s.

No one does.  Who's next?  He's not done with this. He thinks he'll convince us

Waiting for the Jets didn't deserve their SB win.  That a classic

[CheezeMCRow]

43 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

If he ever gets in (I am concerned many will just look at meaningless compiled numbers and not actually remember what it was like to watch him play) it will take a long time.  He doesn't belong but they have let other undeserving candidates in just not one as undeserving as this one.

You can't allow yourself to get so worked up about Eli going to the hall (love it or hate it, it's INEVITABLE...), otherwise i fear you're going to cause yourself a brain aneurysm trying so hard to somehow change fate. You may need the infinity glove for this one.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

If he ever gets in (I am concerned many will just look at meaningless compiled numbers and not actually remember what it was like to watch him play) it will take a long time.  He doesn't belong but they have let other undeserving candidates in just not one as undeserving as this one.

We'll see.  

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Guess you think one season is the same as a career.  Or that the HOF will happen or won't after completing one season.  The whole world knows Flacco had one amazing season and playoff run.  Lol

One is better than zero seasons, right?

42 minutes ago, CheezeMCRow said:

You can't allow yourself to get so worked up about Eli going to the hall (love it or hate it, it's INEVITABLE...), otherwise i fear you're going to cause yourself a brain aneurysm trying so hard to somehow change fate. You may need the infinity glove for this one.

I'm not worked up at all.  If it happens it happens.  It will be a disgrace and an insult to real Hall of famers but life will go on.  This is a football discussion board, I enjoy discussing football.  as have said before I happen to like Eli, he's a nice guy but he's not a Hall of famer.

[CheezeMCRow]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

One is better than zero seasons, right?

I'm not worked up at all.  If it happens it happens.  It will be a disgrace and an insult to real Hall of famers but life will go on.  This is a football discussion board, I enjoy discussing football.  as have said before I happen to like Eli, he's a nice guy but he's not a Hall of famer.

I think with Eli, there also needs to be context and perspective when judging him. Eli is judged more harshly by his OWN fanbase than outside, with Giants fans regularly treating their own qb's like garbage until they're retired, ala Phil Simms. So Eli doesn't just get compared to his fellow NFL qbs and draft class, but ALSO to the history of Giants' super bowl qb's he's aways going to be compared to as well, such as Simms, Hostetler, and Collins.

Had Eli had the same exact career with Jets however, he would be hailed as an all-time legendary hero, and king of new york just because he'd be a 'QB of one' with no other Jets qb in our generation to even be remotely compared to.

You're already seeing this double-standard playing out for the newbie new york qb's too, with Darnold and Jones. Jones has already been beaten up my media and fans, who essentially have let it be known that not only does he have to win, but has to win BIG since the bar has already been raised so high by Eli that Jones even had to say at his intro presser that he needs to win 'multiple super bowls' (and even if he does, he'll STILL have to face endless naysayers, just like Eli .... however by contrast, Darnold could have far less success but also be treated far more warmly by Jet nation, even if he doesn't win squat, just because there's no other Jets qb in our generation he has to be compared against, unless you count Sanchez or Pennington?

[kelticwizard]

8 hours ago, nyjunc said:

 He's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20 points.  Blake bortles won a road playoff game when the opponent scored 42 and Eli has never won when his D allowed more than 20, let that sink in.

See, this is why your posts are without value.  You are so caught up in numbers and statistics, you are more impressed with the QB who leads his team to victory scoring under 20 than a QB who leads his team to defeat but scores over 20.

[kelticwizard]

5 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Once again you have nothing.  Please move along.

LOL, you're a riot, nyjunc.  You've occupied Lord knows how much bandwidth pushing the notion that it's not who wins, it's who scores more than 20 points, and you are telling someone ELSE to move along?

?????????

[kelticwizard]

8 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

• List of Super Bowl MVPs
• Super Bowl XLII — QB Eli Manning, N.Y. Giants
• Super Bowl XLVI — QB Eli Manning, N.Y. Giants

If they were led by the "defense" then why did he win MVP?

 

7 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Let's compare his 2 SB MVPs to Nick Foles' lone MVP.

Why would we want to do that?  Foles won one Super Bowl MVP, Eli won 2.  When Foles wins 2, and he might, then we can talk.  He hasn't been in the league very long, so nobody's even considering him yet.  Once again, your whole post is an attempt to dust off points by another poster and push forward with more meaningless stats.  But then, if you're pushing the idea that it's not if you win, it's if you score a certain amount of points or not, meaningless baloney is all you've got left.

[nyjunc]

48 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

See, this is why your posts are without value.  You are so caught up in numbers and statistics, you are more impressed with the QB who leads his team to victory scoring under 20 than a QB who leads his team to defeat but scores over 20.

He's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20 points, please let that sink in.

2 conf title games, 2 SBs and he never had to lead an O to more than 20 in regulation.  It's unprecedented in NFL history.

32 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

 

Why would we want to do that?  Foles won one Super Bowl MVP, Eli won 2.  When Foles wins 2, and he might, then we can talk.  He hasn't been in the league very long, so nobody's even considering him yet.  Once again, your whole post is an attempt to dust off points by another poster and push forward with more meaningless stats.  But then, if you're pushing the idea that it's not if you win, it's if you score a certain amount of points or not, meaningless baloney is all you've got left.

You'd want to do that to see what a real SB MVP looks like not just the default selection of QB of the winning team. Eli did not deserve either MVP.  

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, CheezeMCRow said:

I think with Eli, there also needs to be context and perspective when judging him. Eli is judged more harshly by his OWN fanbase than outside, with Giants fans regularly treating their own qb's like garbage until they're retired, ala Phil Simms. So Eli doesn't just get compared to his fellow NFL qbs and draft class, but ALSO to the history of Giants' super bowl qb's he's aways going to be compared to as well, such as Simms, Hostetler, and Collins.

Had Eli had the same exact career with Jets however, he would be hailed as an all-time legendary hero, and king of new york just because he'd be a 'QB of one' with no other Jets qb in our generation to even be remotely compared to.

You're already seeing this double-standard playing out for the newbie new york qb's too, with Darnold and Jones. Jones has already been beaten up my media and fans, who essentially have let it be known that not only does he have to win, but has to win BIG since the bar has already been raised so high by Eli that Jones even had to say at his intro presser that he needs to win 'multiple super bowls' (and even if he does, he'll STILL have to face endless naysayers, just like Eli .... however by contrast, Darnold could have far less success but also be treated far more warmly by Jet nation, even if he doesn't win squat, just because there's no other Jets qb in our generation he has to be compared against, unless you count Sanchez or Pennington?

Mark Sanchez was having the exact same career as Eli and he was run out of town.  If Mark's D stepped up in conf title games (and everyday SBs)the way Eli's did he'd have 2 titles too.  Eli was never a great QB, he had great games and great moments but was never great.  In the 2 SB runs he elevated his play in postseason just like Sanchez did in his two postseasons.  If our D steps up and we win mark is still our QB, if Eli's D's didn't stop up and he didn't win those SBs he would have been gone from NYG a long time ago.

[kelticwizard]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20 points, please let that sink in.

Yes we know.  And those of us who live in the real world saw Brady fail twice very late in the game when when the Super Bowl was on the line, and saw Eli come through to win both times.   And to real football fans, that's ten times more important.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

Yes we know.  And those of us who live in the real world saw Brady fail twice very late in the game when when the Super Bowl was on the line, and saw Eli come through to win both times.   And to real football fans, that's ten times more important.

Actually he led an 80 yard TD drive to take the lead in SB 42, in the last one the great Wes Welker had a huge drop.  He didn't have a legitimate chance on his final possessions of those SBs.

The reason Eli had a chance to finish the drives was because his defense shut down the greatest QB of all time and 2 all time great offenses.  If they didn't they wouldn't have won either SB.

[CheezeMCRow]

32 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Mark Sanchez was having the exact same career as Eli and he was run out of town.  If Mark's D stepped up in conf title games (and everyday SBs)the way Eli's did he'd have 2 titles too.  Eli was never a great QB, he had great games and great moments but was never great.  In the 2 SB runs he elevated his play in postseason just like Sanchez did in his two postseasons.  If our D steps up and we win mark is still our QB, if Eli's D's didn't stop up and he didn't win those SBs he would have been gone from NYG a long time ago.

You also conveniently  leave out the one little important factoid about Sanchez which is he was never a professional enough QB to last in New York. Had nothing to do with his physical ability. Instead it was all about what was (or wasn't) between Mark's ears. He had early success and essentially coasted on it, never getting any better, and instead being far more interested in his celebrity of being a qb in New York than actually developing his skillset---Eli has been the ultimate professional qb that handled the pressure of New York with ease for 15 years and counting. That alone deserves hall recognition in how rare that truly is.

[kelticwizard]

5 hours ago, nyjunc said:

 in the last one [Patriots -Giants SB] the great Wes Welker had a huge drop. 

Oh, please, how old are you?  Mr. Snowblind By Statistics now wants to count drops as touchdowns?  So much for your mathematically precise analyses about football.

[kelticwizard]

5 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Actually he [Brady] led an 80 yard TD drive to take the lead in SB 42....

Brady led his team to an 80 yard TD drive which left well over two minutes on the clock.  That's very good, actually, but great QBs only need two minutes to come back.  Manning topped Brady by leading his team on an 83 yard TD march leaving only 29 seconds on the clock-not enough time for anything for miracles.

 

Quote

He [Brady] didn't have a legitimate chance on his final possessions of those SBs.

Very true.  Eli engineered the go-ahead TD drives for the Giants which scored  with less than half a minute left in the first game, and less than a minute left in the second.  It's a mark of great field generalship when you make sure you score with little time for your opponent to respond. Which is why Eli was MVP in both games.

Thanks for proving my point.

[nyjunc]

11 hours ago, CheezeMCRow said:

You also conveniently  leave out the one little important factoid about Sanchez which is he was never a professional enough QB to last in New York. Had nothing to do with his physical ability. Instead it was all about what was (or wasn't) between Mark's ears. He had early success and essentially coasted on it, never getting any better, and instead being far more interested in his celebrity of being a qb in New York than actually developing his skillset---Eli has been the ultimate professional qb that handled the pressure of New York with ease for 15 years and counting. That alone deserves hall recognition in how rare that truly is.

He didn't get better because the talent around him for significantly worse unlike work Eli where the Giants were consistently bringing in new talent.  Mark's third year 3 of his top 5 weapons entering that season were out of football by the next year and his final year here his main weapons were rookie Stephen Hill, Chaz schilens, Clyde Gates, etc...  Eli couldn't win with Beckham but Mark was supposed to win with those guys?

I think mark and Eli have the same temperament for the most part.  Both could suck for three qtrs and forget about it and play well late, both could have atrocious games one week then look like a different player the next. 

[nyjunc]

6 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Oh, please, how old are you?  Mr. Snowblind By Statistics now wants to count drops as touchdowns?  So much for your mathematically precise analyses about football.

That drop wouldn't have been a TD but it would have been a first down deep in Giants territory and they could have run the clock while at the very least extending the lead to where a FG was meaningless.

6 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Brady led his team to an 80 yard TD drive which left well over two minutes on the clock.  That's very good, actually, but great QBs only need two minutes to come back.  Manning topped Brady by leading his team on an 83 yard TD march leaving only 29 seconds on the clock-not enough time for anything for miracles.

 

Very true.  Eli engineered the go-ahead TD drives for the Giants which scored  with less than half a minute left in the first game, and less than a minute left in the second.  It's a mark of great field generalship when you make sure you score with little time for your opponent to respond. Which is why Eli was MVP in both games.

Thanks for proving my point.

So Eli is a great QB and Brady is not? ??

Eli was furnished the perfect amount of time was left for him and Samuel dropped an int and a ball stuck to a helmet.  If that doesn't happen in SB 42 he's run out of town and SB 46 never happens.

Without incredible D the Giants don't have a chance, the D allowed Eli and the O to make plays late to win. Credit to Eli for doing it but 2 possessions doesn't make a career and if his D didn't make it possible to win 2 SBs without leading his O to 20 points he'd have zero super bowls and he's be playing and losing somewhere else now.

[Kleckineau]

Why do you guys feed this troll and hall of fame thread hijacker?

 

[The Crusher]

24 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Why do you guys feed this troll and hall of fame thread hijacker?

 

IVe read numerous NYJUNC the Eli Killer threads and this is the first time he brought Sanchez in. Color me impressed. 

[slats]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

He didn't get better because the talent around him for significantly worse unlike work Eli where the Giants were consistently bringing in new talent.  Mark's third year 3 of his top 5 weapons entering that season were out of football by the next year and his final year here his main weapons were rookie Stephen Hill, Chaz schilens, Clyde Gates, etc...  Eli couldn't win with Beckham but Mark was supposed to win with those guys?

I think mark and Eli have the same temperament for the most part.  Both could suck for three qtrs and forget about it and play well late, both could have atrocious games one week then look like a different player the next. 

This nonsense might hold water if Sanchez went on to have success after he left the Jets. Instead, he was given a couple golden opportunities and blew them. Played a very good half a year with Chip Kelly's Eagles (albeit with his usual interceptions), but still lost the starting job to Sam Bradford (who also sucks) the following year. His next stop is Denver, where he arrives as the presumptive starter and instead winds up a camp casualty. He finishes up his career with stints at Dallas and Washington where he manages to throw five more interceptions but no more TDs. 

So yeah, sure, the Jets didn't do him any favors. He didn't do himself any, either.  

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, slats said:

This nonsense might hold water if Sanchez went on to have success after he left the Jets. Instead, he was given a couple golden opportunities and blew them. Played a very good half a year with Chip Kelly's Eagles (albeit with his usual interceptions), but still lost the starting job to Sam Bradford (who also sucks) the following year. His next stop is Denver, where he arrives as the presumptive starter and instead winds up a camp casualty. He finishes up his career with stints at Dallas and Washington where he manages to throw five more interceptions but no more TDs. 

So yeah, sure, the Jets didn't do him any favors. He didn't do himself any, either.  

He did have success, he was good in 2014.  The offense was much better with him than they were with Nick Foles'. Outside of the second half of 2014 he never really had another extended chance.  If our D steps up in the AFC championship games like they did the other playoff games Mark has 2 SBs under his belt and the reputation completely changes just like if Eli's D's didn't step up his reputation completely changes and he would have been gone from the Giants a long time ago.  People forget how going into each SB season the fans and media wanted Eli (and Coughlin) gone.  In 2007 he led the NFL in INTs (one of three times) but Eli's D's played great throughout those postseasons and Mark's did not.  

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He did have success, he was good in 2014.  The offense was much better with him than they were with Nick Foles'. Outside of the second half of 2014 he never really had another extended chance.  If our D steps up in the AFC championship games like they did the other playoff games Mark has 2 SBs under his belt and the reputation completely changes just like if Eli's D's didn't step up his reputation completely changes and he would have been gone from the Giants a long time ago.  People forget how going into each SB season the fans and media wanted Eli (and Coughlin) gone.  In 2007 he led the NFL in INTs (one of three times) but Eli's D's played great throughout those postseasons and Mark's did not.   

Not one sentence in this post is a true statement.  Not one.  

If you did this stuff intentionally, you'd be the greatest troll of all-time.  Incredibly, though, you believe what you type. 

[CheezeMCRow]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

He didn't get better because the talent around him for significantly worse unlike work Eli where the Giants were consistently bringing in new talent.  Mark's third year 3 of his top 5 weapons entering that season were out of football by the next year and his final year here his main weapons were rookie Stephen Hill, Chaz schilens, Clyde Gates, etc...  Eli couldn't win with Beckham but Mark was supposed to win with those guys?

I think mark and Eli have the same temperament for the most part.  Both could suck for three qtrs and forget about it and play well late, both could have atrocious games one week then look like a different player the next. 

Eli and Sanchez are EXACTLY alike. and by exactly, i of course mean nothing alike.

Somewhere Browning Nagle is rolling in his grave .... FYI, rumor has it Nagle was the same qb as Simms too, but only got screwed by Jets' management at the time, otherwise he would've been mvp of super bowl XXV!!!!

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not one sentence in this post is a true statement.  Not one.  

If you did this stuff intentionally, you'd be the greatest troll of all-time.  Incredibly, though, you believe what you type. 

It's actually all true, the eagles offense scored almost a TD more per game with mark than they did with foles and it was alright the much tougher portion of the schedule where in 5 of his 8 starts they played against teams playing in the divisional round and beyond.

Giants fans wanted Eli and Coughlin gone during the 2007 season then heading into the 2011 season.  If the Giants D doesn't step up in 2007 there's no way Eli even makes it to 2011 to allow his D to take him on another run.

Sorry you don't like the truth

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, CheezeMCRow said:

Eli and Sanchez are EXACTLY alike. and by exactly, i of course mean nothing alike.

Somewhere Browning Nagle is rolling in his grave .... FYI, rumor has it Nagle was the same qb as Simms too, but only got screwed by Jets' management at the time, otherwise he would've been mvp of super bowl XXV!!!!

Yeah, Browning nagle is just like mark.  He inherited a playoff team then went 3-10.  Mark has more playoff wins in 6 starts than nagle in 13 reg season starts.

It's hard to see for those who don't watch football and just look at stats but Mark and Eli are basically the same player.  The Giants keep adding pieces around Eli and their D played great throughout those two runs, the Jets stripped all the talent around Mark and their D get flat in title games.  Neither team won because of their QBs but both QBs were important in the runs.

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

It's actually all true, the eagles offense scored almost a TD more per game with mark than they did with foles and it was alright the much tougher portion of the schedule where in 5 of his 8 starts they played against teams playing in the divisional round and beyond.

Giants fans wanted Eli and Coughlin gone during the 2007 season then heading into the 2011 season.  If the Giants D doesn't step up in 2007 there's no way Eli even makes it to 2011 to allow his D to take him on another run.

Sorry you don't like the truth

Giants fans did want them gone.  Proving that fans can be dumb as rocks and get away with it.  The two that they wanted out ultimately won the Giants another SB.  Yes, somewhere you think thats a negative.

And speaking of the truth, Sanchez lost 3 of the last 4 down the stretch in Philly, their season ended fittingly on a Sanchez INT on the possible game winning drive.  Typical

Foles 6-2

Sanchez 4-4

 

[nyjunc]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Giants fans did want them gone.  Proving that fans can be dumb as rocks and get away with it.  The two that they wanted out ultimately won the Giants another SB.  Yes, somewhere you think thats a negative.

And speaking of the truth, Sanchez lost 3 of the last 4 down the stretch in Philly, their season ended fittingly on a Sanchez INT on the possible game winning drive.  Typical

Putting the final week aside since they were out if it in their 3 game losing streak the D allowed 29.7 PPG but yeah mark Sanchez was supposed to lead his O to 30+ PPG to win those games and it was all Mark's fault?

 

[slats]

20 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He did have success, he was good in 2014.  The offense was much better with him than they were with Nick Foles'. Outside of the second half of 2014 he never really had another extended chance.  If our D steps up in the AFC championship games like they did the other playoff games Mark has 2 SBs under his belt and the reputation completely changes just like if Eli's D's didn't step up his reputation completely changes and he would have been gone from the Giants a long time ago.  People forget how going into each SB season the fans and media wanted Eli (and Coughlin) gone.  In 2007 he led the NFL in INTs (one of three times) but Eli's D's played great throughout those postseasons and Mark's did not.  

I would've giving you the laughing face emoji here, but that counts as positive rep that you do not deserve. 

He never had an extended chance because he didn't deserve one. The Broncos handed them their starting job and he blew it so completely that they actually cut him in the preseason. Signed to start, then cut before the regular season. Think about that. He was awful. Didn't want to put in the work, and it showed.