Daniel Jones vs Sam Darnold

[nyjunc]

15 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Did you just come down from the mountain with chiseled tablets which say that unless you score more than 20 points in the Super Bowl, you didn't really win?

 

What are these strange posts you write?  Where did you get the idea that irrelevant statistics from other games played by other teams during other seasons somehow cancel out the fact that in the Super Bowl game you just played, your team scored more points than the other team?

 

Maybe the mods can change the name of this thread to Nyjunc's Twilight Zone.

 

 

How about try to counter the info rather than deflect?  There have only been a few years score less than 20 on O and won SBs since the 80s and Eli has done it 2 times in 2 chances where his D matched up against historically great offenses and shut them down.

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

No offense but you are clueless.  Setting the has better compiled numbers than Montana and elway should clue you in. 

League MVPs:

Joe Montana 1

John elway 1

Eli ZERO

All pro selections:

JM 6x

JE 3x

Eli ZERO

Led league in major category:

JM TDs 2x, rating 2x, comp % 5x

JE yds 1x

Eli ints 3x

Records as starters:

JM 117-47

JE 148-82-1

Eli 116-114

But Eli has more compiled numbers playing his entire career in an era where rules are skewed toward pass O.

 

Maybe it's because he's 6th all time in pass attempts playing mostly meaningless games with garbage time stats?

 

Sorry I triggered you again because you’re too dumb to admit you sound dumb.  Eli also has more td passes than Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan and only 3 less than Ben Roethlisberger

 

But yeah nit pick all you want you sound moronic acting like Eli is a glorified Jay Fiedler

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

How about try to counter the info rather than deflect?  There have only been a few years score less than 20 on O and won SBs since the 80s and Eli has done it 2 times in 2 chances where his D matched up against historically great offenses and shut them down.

Oh right we forgot Super Bowl wins only count if you score 35 or more points

[Doggin94it]

Eli is a HoFer based on career numbers, SB wins, and, well, name recognition

He's also basically never been a top 5 QB in the league

[CheezeMCRow]

The thing is Eli, being a NY lifetime qb, will always be polarizing. Those who hate him will always hate him, and those who love him will always love him. So once you put personal affection or disdain for the player to the side, and look at it all objectively--he's getting into the HOF. It'd be super difficult to justify putting several other qbs already in the hall in over Eli, especially when you also consider what a good guy, NFL icon and darling of the league Eli has been since he entered the league. 

By the way, wasn't this originally about who's gonna be better: Darnold or Jones????

[nyjunc]

16 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Sorry I triggered you again because you’re too dumb to admit you sound dumb.  Eli also has more td passes than Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan and only 3 less than Ben Roethlisberger

 

But yeah nit pick all you want you sound moronic acting like Eli is a glorified Jay Fiedler

Career attempts:

Eli 7972(360 TDs, 239 INTs)

Rodgers 5492(338 TDs, 80 INTs)

Ryan 6201(295 TDs, 133 INTs)

Ben 7168(363 TDs, 190 INTs)

 

Let's prorate TDs and INTs to Eli's attempts:

Rodgers 491 TDs, 116 INTs

Ryan 379 TDs, 171 INTs

Ben 404 TDs, 211 INTs

 

No matter how you slice it Eli isn't close to these guys or any great QBs.

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, CheezeMCRow said:

The thing is Eli, being a NY lifetime qb, will always be polarizing. Those who hate him will always hate him, and those who love him will always love him. So once you put personal affection or disdain for the player to the side, and look at it all objectively--he's getting into the HOF. It'd be super difficult to justify putting several other qbs already in the hall in over Eli, especially when you also consider what a good guy, NFL icon and darling of the league Eli has been since he entered the league. 

By the way, wasn't this originally about who's gonna be better: Darnold or Jones????

I'm am 100% objective, I personally like Eli but he isn't even worthy of Hof discussion.

An NFL icon? What???? He's been a mostly mediocre QB with flashes of great play but never consistent

[nyjunc]

16 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Oh right we forgot Super Bowl wins only count if you score 35 or more points

They all count but you don't get to HOF just because you won 2 SBs led by your defense. You actually have to perform at a Hof level the majority of your career which is something Eli has never done.  He has 1- maybe 2 borderline HOF seasons.  The man has never even made a single all pro team, he would be the first Hof QB to have that honor.

[CheezeMCRow]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

I'm am 100% objective, I personally like Eli but he isn't even worthy of Hof discussion.

An NFL icon? What???? He's been a mostly mediocre QB with flashes of great play but never consistent

In the end, super bowls will trump all. he's been an NFL promoted staple for years, and a celebrity with star power with class who's been good for the league with clean reputation and constant sponsorship forever. he's getting in.

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, CheezeMCRow said:

In the end, super bowls will trump all. he's been an NFL promoted staple for years, and a celebrity with star power with class who's been good for the league with clean reputation and constant sponsorship forever. he's getting in.

He also sold fake memorabilia to fans.

He's never been a top promoted player because he's never been a top player.  The Manning name got him more notoriety but he just wasn't good enough to be considered an all time great, he was never great and never among the best of his generation. He's not getting in.

[CheezeMCRow]

if your argument is first or second ballot for Eli, that's totally debatable, but if it's actually about him getting in at all, well that's just silly.

ps, sorry you bought his autographed merchandise

[section314]

59 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

They all count but you don't get to HOF just because you won 2 SBs led by your defense. You actually have to perform at a Hof level the majority of your career which is something Eli has never done.  He has 1- maybe 2 borderline HOF seasons.  The man has never even made a single all pro team, he would be the first Hof QB to have that honor.

Wow. That's an interesting tidbit.

[nyjunc]

53 minutes ago, CheezeMCRow said:

if your argument is first or second ballot for Eli, that's totally debatable, but if it's actually about him getting in at all, well that's just silly.

ps, sorry you bought his autographed merchandise

Why would I buy Eli Manning merchandise?  And the fake memorabilia was his game used stuff.  He kept the stuff he used and had an equipment guy scuff up some non used stuff.  These were items fans paid thousands and thousands of dollars to purchase (don't ask me why)

[nyjunc]

50 minutes ago, section314 said:

Wow. That's an interesting tidbit.

This includes official and unofficial, there are QBs in the hall who have made unofficial but not official.  Eli has never made any. That should tell us something.  The Hall should be reserved for the all time greats, Scott brosius isn't going to the Hall in baseball and he won 3 WS title and came up huge for the Yankees.  Eli should be honored by the Giants but it's ridiculous to put him in the Hall.  I just don't know what people have been watching the last 15 years.

[CheezeMCRow]

solid argument, and your passion for wanting Eli nowhere near the hall is evident and commendable ... so when he DOES eventually get in, promise not to picket too long outside Canton. The winters are frigid.

[kelticwizard]

On 5/9/2019 at 10:06 PM, Philc1 said:

Oh right we forgot Super Bowl wins only count if you score 35 or more points

Took the words right out of my mouth.  Nyjunc complains that people don't "counter" him with statistics, but he fails to realize that his irrelevant statistics leave the respondent with nothing to counter.  For instance, he says that one of Eli's SB runs doesn't count because the team didn't score more than 20 points in any game in that playoff run.  As if 20 points is some kind of recognized standard for qualifying, instead of it being a made-up-on-the-spot irrelevant standard that Nyjunc pulled right out of his posterior.

 

When it gets to the point that you have to explain to someone that the idea is to score more points than the other team, not achieve 20 points regardless of what your opponent scores, you know that you're dealing with someone who's out on a limb.

[kelticwizard]

9 hours ago, nyjunc said:

They [points] all count but you don't get to HOF just because you won 2 SBs led by your defense.

It wasn't the Giants' defense in 2008 who took over possession on their own 12 yard line, behind in the game with 2:39 left, and led the team down the  field the score the winning TD to Plaxico and with half a minute left on the clock.  This is after Eli spun out of the grasp of three different Pats linemen behind the line of scrimmage to complete a 32 yard pass.

 

It also wasn't the Giants' defense in 2012 who took over the ball on their own 17, behind in the game  with 3:46 remaining, and drove the Giants to a TD with less than a minute on the clock.  That's the drive that included that key 38 yard completion to Manningham.

 

Do you even watch football?  Or do you just ponder computer screens full of stats for the sake of playing with numbers?

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Career attempts:

Eli 7972(360 TDs, 239 INTs)

Rodgers 5492(338 TDs, 80 INTs)

Ryan 6201(295 TDs, 133 INTs)

Ben 7168(363 TDs, 190 INTs)

 

Let's prorate TDs and INTs to Eli's attempts:

Rodgers 491 TDs, 116 INTs

Ryan 379 TDs, 171 INTs

Ben 404 TDs, 211 INTs

 

No matter how you slice it Eli isn't close to these guys or any great QBs.

Let's blow more shlt out of our ass to make 0 points.

We're off of points scored in SB wins as a derogatory stat? 

 

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Scott brosius isn't going to the Hall in baseball and he won 3 WS title and came up huge for the Yankees.  Eli should be honored by the Giants but it's ridiculous to put him in the Hall.  I just don't know what people have been watching the last 15 years.

This has got to be the most utterly ridiculous anology yet.  Scott Brosious?  LOL.  Nice try.  But still can't figure out why you do this to yourself.  Argue against something you know is going to happen with a large group, none that agree with you and never will have their opinions changed.  Should tell you something. 

[nyjunc]

On 5/10/2019 at 10:36 PM, kelticwizard said:

It wasn't the Giants' defense in 2008 who took over possession on their own 12 yard line, behind in the game with 2:39 left, and led the team down the  field the score the winning TD to Plaxico and with half a minute left on the clock.  This is after Eli spun out of the grasp of three different Pats linemen behind the line of scrimmage to complete a 32 yard pass.

 

It also wasn't the Giants' defense in 2012 who took over the ball on their own 17, behind in the game  with 3:46 remaining, and drove the Giants to a TD with less than a minute on the clock.  That's the drive that included that key 38 yard completion to Manningham.

 

Do you even watch football?  Or do you just ponder computer screens full of stats for the sake of playing with numbers?

It was the Giants defense who allowed Eli to lead his O to 17 points and win.  A fluky helmet catch and a dropped int took care of the rest.

In 2012 not only did the Giants D hold Brady and NE to just 17 pts but they also SCORED on a safety and got Eli the ball back.

Eli made plays but 2 drives made possible by incredible defense does not make one a Hall of famer.

It's obvious you don't watch or you don't understand what you are watching is you think Eli is a HOFer

[nyjunc]

On 5/10/2019 at 10:50 PM, Jet Nut said:

Let's blow more shlt out of our ass to make 0 points.

We're off of points scored in SB wins as a derogatory stat? 

 

I just countered the incredibly weak point that brought up those other QBs.  At some point you may want to actual pay some decent points

On 5/10/2019 at 10:54 PM, Jet Nut said:

This has got to be the most utterly ridiculous anology yet.  Scott Brosious?  LOL.  Nice try.  But still can't figure out why you do this to yourself.  Argue against something you know is going to happen with a large group, none that agree with you and never will have their opinions changed.  Should tell you something. 

Brosius also a championship MVP, had numerous big moments in championships.  He was an all Star and a gold glove winner.  He was a good player who had some great moments just like Eli.

Brosius isn't going to the hall just like Eli isn't going.

[nyjunc]

On 5/10/2019 at 10:11 PM, kelticwizard said:

Took the words right out of my mouth.  Nyjunc complains that people don't "counter" him with statistics, but he fails to realize that his irrelevant statistics leave the respondent with nothing to counter.  For instance, he says that one of Eli's SB runs doesn't count because the team didn't score more than 20 points in any game in that playoff run.  As if 20 points is some kind of recognized standard for qualifying, instead of it being a made-up-on-the-spot irrelevant standard that Nyjunc pulled right out of his posterior.

 

When it gets to the point that you have to explain to someone that the idea is to score more points than the other team, not achieve 20 points regardless of what your opponent scores, you know that you're dealing with someone who's out on a limb.

I never said any do not count, I've said they were led by by D and STs.  Eli played well but without incredible D they don't have a chance.  He's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20 points.  Blake bortles won a road playoff game when the opponent scored 42 and Eli has never won when his D allowed more than 20, let that sink in.

The Giants D kept great offenses down to allow Eli to lead his teams to low point totals to win.  I agree with the poster who said you win in different ways, sometimes in a shootout and other times in low scoring D battles.  The problem is Eli in his only 2 postseasons where he won postseason games (think about how pathetic it is this "future Hall of famer" only won playoff games in 2 postseasons) never won a shootout. He won one way only thanks to incredible D and STs.

[CheezeMCRow]

As hard as this is to say, let's be honest, if Namath is in -- Eli is in.

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I just countered the incredibly weak point that brought up those other QBs.  At some point you may want to actual pay some decent points

You mean like the most decent of points like the one that says Eli is getting into the HOF.  Every ridiculous reason why you believe he won't is pointless and weak because you're wrong, you're point is he won't make it, that's just wrong.  Period. 

Quote

 

Brosius also a championship MVP, had numerous big moments in championships.  He was an all Star and a gold glove winner.  He was a good player who had some great moments just like Eli.

Brosius isn't going to the hall just like Eli isn't going.

 

Brodius, in case you forgot, played baseball.  A completely different sport.  Al Weiss and Ed Hearn have WS rings for the Mets, they weren't leaders who got their teams to the WS or won it.  They also haven't played as long, haven't been the face of the team, the most important player on their teams, their SBs MVP.

But you go ahead and spin to a different set of criteria to prove yourself wrong and really just a hater.  You'll have to get over it.  Eli is 1000 times better all around better QB than your boy Sanchez could ever dream of.

[Villain The Foe]

I generally agree with this. 

The pick is terrible in terms of draft projection, cant argue that. I dont think that pick is equally as bad in terms of actual talent. 

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You mean like the most decent of points like the one that says Eli is getting into the HOF.  Every ridiculous reason why you believe he won't is pointless and weak because you're wrong, you're point is he won't make it, that's just wrong.  Period. 

Brodius, in case you forgot, played baseball.  A completely different sport.  Al Weiss and Ed Hearn have WS rings for the Mets, they weren't leaders who got their teams to the WS or won it.  They also haven't played as long, haven't been the face of the team, the most important player on their teams, their SBs MVP.

But you go ahead and spin to a different set of criteria to prove yourself wrong and really just a hater.  You'll have to get over it.  Eli is 1000 times better all around better QB than your boy Sanchez could ever dream of.

You showed other QBs who have actually been great unlike Eli, the fact that you don't realize this is amazing 

Did those guys win an MVP in a championship? (One which was actually deserved unlike Eli's) Were they all stars?

You want football comparison?  Jim Plunkett.

Plunkett started at least 3/4 of games in 8 seasons, Eli has missed 1 game in 14 seasons, despite this:

Top 5 in pass yds: 

Eli 3(21%)

JP 1(13%)

Edge Eli

Top 5 in pass TDs:

Eli 3(21%)

JP 2(25%)

Edge Plunkett

Rating:

Neither made top 5, both made top 10 once

Eli .07%

JP 13%

Edge Plunkett

The only major category either has led in is INTs.

Eli 3x

JP 1x

 

Playoff apps:

Eli 6(43%)

JP 4(50%)

Edge Plunkett

Both won 2 SBs, Plunkett won playoff games in 3 of his 4 playoff apps(75%), Eli won playoff games in 2 of his 6 playoff apps(33%).

Edge Plunkett

 

In SB runs:

Eli led Os to 22.4 PPG in regulation

JP led Os to 26.6 PPG in regulation

Edge Plunkett

 

He's a modern day Jim Plunkett, he's not getting in

[#27TheDominator]

On 5/10/2019 at 3:04 PM, nyjunc said:

They all count but you don't get to HOF just because you won 2 SBs led by your defense. You actually have to perform at a Hof level the majority of your career which is something Eli has never done.  He has 1- maybe 2 borderline HOF seasons.  The man has never even made a single all pro team, he would be the first Hof QB to have that honor.

• List of Super Bowl MVPs
• Super Bowl XLII — QB Eli Manning, N.Y. Giants
• Super Bowl XLVI — QB Eli Manning, N.Y. Giants

If they were led by the "defense" then why did he win MVP? You can dispute the validity of the Super Bowl MVP process, but it is done on the same basis as the Hall of Fame.  You want to argue other QBs are better?  Have at it, you'll probably be right.  You want to argue he has no shot at the Hall?  Are you insane? 

[nyjunc]

34 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

• List of Super Bowl MVPs
• Super Bowl XLII — QB Eli Manning, N.Y. Giants
• Super Bowl XLVI — QB Eli Manning, N.Y. Giants

If they were led by the "defense" then why did he win MVP? You can dispute the validity of the Super Bowl MVP process, but it is done on the same basis as the Hall of Fame.  You want to argue other QBs are better?  Have at it, you'll probably be right.  You want to argue he has no shot at the Hall?  Are you insane? 

Let's compare his 2 SB MVPs to Nick Foles' lone MVP.

 

In a combined 2 games Eli led O to 36 points, threw 3 TDs with 1 int as his D allowed 31 points total.

In one SB foles led his O to 41 points, threw 3 TDs with 1 int, caught a TD as his D allowed 33 points.

That's what a real MVP looks like, in most SBs the winning QB gets the award whether deserved or not.  When a D holds an opposing O to 14 points when they average 38 then hold an opponent to 17 when they average 32 AND score that should clue you in.

 

What does SB MVP voting have to do with the HOF voting? 

He has a shot because of people who didn't watch him play and just see compiled, meaningless numbers.  He shouldn't even be in the discussion, his team win 2 SBs do we induct the entire teams?  He's never won another playoff game in any other season, he's only made 6 postseasons in a weak division, he's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than me 20, he's only led his O to more than 24 points one time, he's been shut out in postseason at HOME.

He's not a HOFer

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Let's compare his 2 SB MVPs to Nick Foles' lone MVP.

 

In a combined 2 games Eli led O to 36 points, threw 3 TDs with 1 int as his D allowed 31 points total.

In one SB foles led his O to 41 points, threw 3 TDs with 1 int, caught a TD as his D allowed 33 points.

That's what a real MVP looks like, in most SBs the whining QB gets the award whether deserved or not.  When a D holds an opposing O to 14 points when they average 38 then hold an opponent to 17 when they average 32 AND score that should clue you in.

That's a strong point. 

[Matt39]

Eli's 2011 playoff run he was 9 TD's 1 INT, 65% completion and had two pretty memorable throws both to Manningham -TD at SF(one of the better NFL playoff games ever) and the sideline pass in the SB.

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Eli's 2011 playoff run he was 9 TD's 1 INT, 65% completion and had two pretty memorable throws both to Manningham -TD at SF(one of the better NFL playoff games ever) and the sideline pass in the SB.

The SF game is so overrated, a week earlier on the same field against the same D NO scored 32 points.  Eli led his O to 20 in 5 qtrs with both NM second half/OT scores coming after muffed punts to set them up deep in SF territory.

He did have a good postseason, he was good in both postseason runs but they don't have the slightest chance to win went incredible D.

 

Let's compare Eli 2011 to flacco 2012.

Eli 9 TDs, 1 int

Flacco 11 TDs, 0 INTs

 

Eli 24.3 PPG

Flacco 26.8 PPG

 

Eli's D 13.5 PPG

Flacco's D 18 PPG

 

[Warfish]

On 4/29/2019 at 1:36 PM, Jack Straw said:

The Giants are the most overrated organization in sports.

This is almost as bad as the OP tbqh. 

Obvious jealousy and inferiority complex is obvious.

If winning two Super Bowls the past 12 years, or getting to three in 20, or winning 4 total in my lifetime, is being "overrated", please, PLEASE, someone tell me where I can sign up to have the Jets be overrated.  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

You showed other QBs who have actually been great unlike Eli, the fact that you don't realize this is amazing 

Did those guys win an MVP in a championship? (One which was actually deserved unlike Eli's) Were they all stars?

You want football comparison?  Jim Plunkett.

Plunkett started at least 3/4 of games in 8 seasons, Eli has missed 1 game in 14 seasons, despite this:

Top 5 in pass yds: 

Eli 3(21%)

JP 1(13%)

Edge Eli

Top 5 in pass TDs:

Eli 3(21%)

JP 2(25%)

Edge Plunkett

Rating:

Neither made top 5, both made top 10 once

Eli .07%

JP 13%

Edge Plunkett

The only major category either has led in is INTs.

Eli 3x

JP 1x

 

Playoff apps:

Eli 6(43%)

JP 4(50%)

Edge Plunkett

Both won 2 SBs, Plunkett won playoff games in 3 of his 4 playoff apps(75%), Eli won playoff games in 2 of his 6 playoff apps(33%).

Edge Plunkett

 

In SB runs:

Eli led Os to 22.4 PPG in regulation

JP led Os to 26.6 PPG in regulation

Edge Plunkett

 

He's a modern day Jim Plunkett, he's not getting in

Another long winded piece of nonsense trying to convince everyone that you're not wrong.  And you still are.  Is you want to compare Plunkett to Eli you're so far off that it's not even worth debating.  Only you would bring that ridiculous analogy to a HOF discussion over Eli's long career and Plunkett.  You pretty much prove with these posts that you have no idea what you're talking about.  Again  

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Let's compare his 2 SB MVPs to Nick Foles' lone MVP.

 

In a combined 2 games Eli led O to 36 points, threw 3 TDs with 1 int as his D allowed 31 points total.

In one SB foles led his O to 41 points, threw 3 TDs with 1 int, caught a TD as his D allowed 33 points.

That's what a real MVP looks like, in most SBs the winning QB gets the award whether deserved or not.  When a D holds an opposing O to 14 points when they average 38 then hold an opponent to 17 when they average 32 AND score that should clue you in.

 

What does SB MVP voting have to do with the HOF voting? 

He has a shot because of people who didn't watch him play and just see compiled, meaningless numbers.  He shouldn't even be in the discussion, his team win 2 SBs do we induct the entire teams?  He's never won another playoff game in any other season, he's only made 6 postseasons in a weak division, he's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than me 20, he's only led his O to more than 24 points one time, he's been shut out in postseason at HOME.

He's not a HOFer

It is the Hall of Fame.  He is FAMOUS.  He may not have deserved the Super Bowl MVPs but he won them.  He may not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but he will get in. 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

The SF game is so overrated, a week earlier on the same field against the same D NO scored 32 points.  Eli led his O to 20 in 5 qtrs with both NM second half/OT scores coming after muffed punts to set them up deep in SF territory.

He did have a good postseason, he was good in both postseason runs but they don't have the slightest chance to win went incredible D.

 

Let's compare Eli 2011 to flacco 2012.

Eli 9 TDs, 1 int

Flacco 11 TDs, 0 INTs

 

Eli 24.3 PPG

Flacco 26.8 PPG

 

Eli's D 13.5 PPG

Flacco's D 18 PPG

 

Why are you randomly comparing Eli to Flacco?