What kind of numbers does Quinnen Williams need to initially justify his #3 selection in year one?

[Beerfish]

The narrative before he was drafted was 'he is elite!  you do not pass on elite players!'

Now that he has been drafted it is:

"Oh he won't get sacks in a 3/4 can't expect him to and if other guys play well it is probably because of him."

Garbage.  He needs to get at least 8 sacks and a ton of tackles for loss.  Mo wilkerson had 10.5 and 12 sack seasons for us.  He needs to be that good in very short order.

THIRD OVERALL PICK IN THE DRAFT.

[Joe W. Namath]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The narrative before he was drafted was 'he is elite!  you do not pass on elite players!'

Now that he has been drafted it is:

"Oh he won't get sacks in a 3/4 can't expect him to and if other guys play well it is probably because of him."

Garbage.  He needs to get at least 8 sacks and a ton of tackles for loss.  Mo wilkerson had 10.5 and 12 sack seasons for us.  He needs to be that good in very short order.

THIRD OVERALL PICK IN THE DRAFT.

If he doesnt get 20 sacks and 70 tackles for a loss he shoukd be cut.

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

If he doesnt get 20 sacks and 70 tackles for a loss he shoukd be cut.

3rd overall pick in the draft.  'ELITE' talent he better be a total game wrecker and havok causer or mac should be fired.  We already had leo and anderson.  He better be a a hell of a lot better than the other half dozen Dlineman we have drafted over the last 6 or 7 years.

[TheGoose]

Solomon Thomas was drafted in the #3 spot two years ago.

He’s totaled 3 sacks in two seasons.

Same draft, the only DTs drafted before rd. 3:

2 (35). DT, Malik McDowell (released), 0 sacks 

2 (55). DT, Dalvin Tomlinson, 1 sack. 

[Jetsfan80]

Solomon Thomas was drafted in the #3 spot two years ago.
He’s totaled 3 sacks in two seasons.

So because of Solomon Thomas, the pick will be good regardless.

High bar you folks set here. High bar.

[TheGoose]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

So because of Solomon Thomas, the pick will be good regardless.

High bar you folks set here. High bar.

 

I added to the post.

Point is, DTs and NTs drafted in the first three rounds of the ‘18 and ‘17 drafts have accumulated no more than 5.5 sacks. 

Granted, Aaron Donald lead the league last year with 20.5 sacks, the next closest was Deforrest Buckner (12). 

It’s not typically a high-sack rate position. 

[Patriot Killa]

10 minutes ago, TheGoose said:

I added to the post.

Point is, DTs and NTs drafted in the first three rounds of the ‘18 and ‘17 drafts have accumulated no more than 5.5 sacks. 

Granted, Aaron Donald lead the league last year with 20.5 sacks, the next closest was Deforrest Buckner (12). 

It’s not typically a high-sack rate position. 

So why take him at 3

[Jetsfan80]

I added to the post.
Point is, DTs and NTs drafted in the first three rounds of the ‘18 and ‘17 drafts have accumulated no more than 5.5 sacks. 
Granted, Aaron Donald lead the league last year with 20.5 sacks, the next closest was Deforrest Buckner (12). 
It’s not typically a high-sack rate position. 

That’s why I wanted Ed Oliver over Quinnen. At least Oliver has a chance to be the next Donald. Quinnen isn’t built like that.

[artemusclyde]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

That’s why I wanted Ed Oliver over Quinnen. At least Oliver has a chance to be the next Donald. Quinnen isn’t built like that.

 

Wouldn't have been ideal either. At least with Quinnen we can play him at nose and keep our best players in Anderson, Leo, and Quinnen on the field. With Oliver, one of them is riding the bench. We really needed Bosa to fall to us, cause that would have been ideal. Also, we better play a 3-4 cause Polite is a 3-4 olb. Switching to a 4-3 makes zero sense with our players.

[Jetsfan80]

Wouldn't have been ideal either. At least with Quinnen we can play him at nose and keep our best players in Anderson, Leo, and Quinnen on the field. With Oliver, one of them is riding the bench. We really needed Bosa to fall to us, cause that would have been ideal. Also, we better play a 3-4 cause Polite is a 3-4 olb. Switching to a 4-3 makes zero sense with our players.

You don’t worry about where they’ll fit when you get an athletic freak like Oliver. It would have sorted itself out.

Also, My plan would have been to trade Leo for 2020 picks.

[adb280z]

1 hour ago, TheGoose said:

Solomon Thomas was drafted in the #3 spot two years ago.

He’s totaled 3 sacks in two seasons.

Same draft, the only DTs drafted before rd. 3:

2 (35). DT, Malik McDowell (released), 0 sacks 

2 (55). DT, Dalvin Tomlinson, 1 sack. 

Solomon Thomas is considered a bit of bust so far.

[RobR]

6 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

The numbers better be good and he better make an impact.  We’ve had people telling us he’s a “generational talent” around here for months now.  Generational talents make immediate impacts.  

Ironically all of the posters that wanted him as some type of a generational prospect are already tempering their expectations and we drafted him less than a week ago.

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, RobR said:

Ironically all of the posters that wanted him as some type of a generational prospect are already tempering their expectations and we drafted him less than a week ago.

#3 overall pick better have a huge impact on the game.

still can’t believe we decided an eventual nose tackle should go #3. 

He’d be so much better in a 4-3. I really hope Gregg Williams is slowly transitioning us towards that.

otherwise I’m not too happy about the pick. As of right now I am neutral on it bc if Quinnen becomes what Leo should of then I’m okay...but I’m waiting patiently.

[RobR]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

#3 overall pick better have a huge impact on the game.

still can’t believe we decided an eventual nose tackle should go #3. 

He’d be so much better in a 4-3. I really hope Gregg Williams is slowly transitioning us towards that.

I'm not worried about GW using him correctly. I'm more concerned about the prospect himself because when he doesn't live up to his draft choice we will hear in no particular order.

He's young

Only had one year of starting experience

He;s not being used correctly

He needs help around him

He's a rookie, they're not supposed to be good

Etc.

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, RobR said:

I'm not worried about GW using him correctly. I'm more concerned about the prospect himself because when he doesn't live up to his draft choice we will hear in no particular order.

He's young

Only had one year of starting experience

He;s not being used correctly

He needs help around him

He's a rookie, they're not supposed to be good

Etc.

People sign on here everyday to literally only do what you just gave an example of lol...I feel like that was gonna happen no matter who the pick was. 

If Quinnen Williams isn’t the real deal then throw the entire front office away...yet again.

 

[RobR]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

If Quinnen Williams isn’t the real deal then throw the entire front office away...yet again.

 

He'll be good, I just don't think he'll be great. I think a better way to gauge his rookie year is too compare him against his peers and how they perform. 

Since we've had a huge run on Dlineman early in the draft it should be easy to see how he stacks up. FTR I'm rooting for him since he's now a Jet.

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, RobR said:

He'll be good, I just don't think he'll be great. I think a better way to gauge his rookie year is too compare him against his peers and how they perform. 

Since we've had a huge run on Dlineman early in the draft it should be easy to see how he stacks up. FTR I'm rooting for him since he's now a Jet.

Oh, absolutely. You already know how it is. Once they are NY Jets, everything goes out the window and I’m rooting my ass off for em’. 

I see a consistent 7-9 sack guy(at worst) if he’s used where he can generate pressure. 

[GreenReaper]

QW is much more scheme diversified then DT-NT.   His 40 time and 10 yard split is comparable to Bosa's.   Though their weight is definitely not comparable...303 lbs QW  vs 265 Bosa.

So Bosa's 40 is 4.79 vs QW's 4.83 (4th fastest  for a 300 pounder @ combine)

10yd split for Bosa 1.65 vs QW's 1.68

QW is fast, strong, athletic, smart and instinctive.  With very powerful hands that he uses with precision technique.

You don't need a GW's defensive mind...if all you're going to do is limit QW to 3-4 NT.  His skill set allows him to do way more then that.

So you play  4-3's as well, and scheme the defense anyway you can, that will allow QW to stunt and loop himself into engaging a single blocker as much as possible.  Every time you can do that...the opposing  offense loses.  And maybe their QB gets lost to them too.

At 22 y.o., Leo in his 2nd year had 7 sacks lots of tackles and made the Pro Bowl.  He had both Richardson and Wilkerson playing alongside him, that made that possible.  When those two were no longer around, Leo saw a steady diet of double teams, and his production fell way off.  He became double team fodder under Bowles and Rodgers.

QW can be special. Leo not at that level but very good.  They worked out together in the offseason, and are happy to be playing with each.  IMO, something very special and symbiotic can emerge with these two beside each other.  They're gonna wreck havoc up the middle on offenses.  

QW-Leo-Polite-Anderson-Jenkins-Mosely-Adams and Poole are a lot of variable pieces for GW to work with for game planning a pass rush.  And QW  should be the premium chess piece on that board.

If Leo could get 7 sacks with Sheldon and Mo talent.  I feel that a special player like QW will be able to do better with Leo, Polite & Co. And with GW orchestrating it.

You don't draft a special talent like QW to be NT fodder.  

So...8-10 sacks year one.  Then it up spikes in the following years. 

 

 

 

[RobR]

11 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

QW is much more scheme diversified then DT-NT.   His 40 time and 10 yard split is comparable to Bosa's.   Though their weight is definitely not comparable...303 lbs QW  vs 265 Bosa.

So Bosa's 40 is 4.79 vs QW's 4.83 (4th fastest  for a 300 pounder @ combine)

10yd split for Bosa 1.65 vs QW's 1.68

First off great post and I agree with the majority of it.

I'll highlight this part and ask you why he decided against testing for any metric that is worthwhile. He ran the 40 and underwhelmed in the broad and vertical and then shut it down. Nada form his proday. This is supposed to be a generational talent.....I've even heard Reggie White comparisons.

[GreenReaper]

2 minutes ago, RobR said:

First off great post and I agree with the majority of it.

I'll highlight this part and ask you why he decided against testing for any metric that is worthwhile. He ran the 40 and underwhelmed in the broad and vertical and then shut it down. Nada form his proday. This is supposed to be a generational talent.....I've even heard Reggie White comparisons.

Honestly...I have no idea. I didn't even watch the combine live.  To me its too much a dog and pony show.  IMO a player's tape is more important.  I just saw a video and those comparisons popped up on the screen. What it did for me is confirm what I was seeing on QW's tape.   

As far as the Reggie White comparisons...that's a lot to live up to.  White had 18 sacks in his 1st season!  Can't think of anyone else that's done that.

If QW is a poor man's version of Reggie White...he's going to be a great player and will have a bust in Canton.

I like to think that QW will be unique in his own way.  At any rate...he's going to be fun to watch.

 

  

 

[14 in Green]

2 hours ago, RobR said:

I'm not worried about GW using him correctly. I'm more concerned about the prospect himself because when he doesn't live up to his draft choice we will hear in no particular order.

He's young

Only had one year of starting experience

He;s not being used correctly

He needs help around him

He's a rookie, they're not supposed to be good

Etc.

This is EXACTLY what I read all last season about the rookie QB we picked at #3....

[SayNoToDMC]

5 hours ago, TheGoose said:

Solomon Thomas was drafted in the #3 spot two years ago.

He’s totaled 3 sacks in two seasons.

Same draft, the only DTs drafted before rd. 3:

2 (35). DT, Malik McDowell (released), 0 sacks 

2 (55). DT, Dalvin Tomlinson, 1 sack. 

What's your point? We're comparing a guy who we've been told is a generational talent to a bust from SF?

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

This is the exact reason why I didn't want to draft Quinnen Williams. He will never live up to the hype of a number 3 pick overall.

DTs, no matter how good they are, they don't put up big numbers. This is a fact. The abberation is Aaron Donald .

If Quinnen Williams has 2 10+sack seasons in his entire career it would be a huge win. ( Gerald McCoy and Ndamukon Suh have 1 10 sack season between the 2 of them. And they are pro bowlers at the position).

The only DTs with more than 2 10+ sack seasons that I can name are geno Atkins and Aaron Donald.  This kid has to be just as good or better than them or else it was a waste of a pick. Especially when you just drafted Leonard Williams 3 years prior to fill the same exact role.

We should have drafted Josh Allen who has the potential to put up double digits sacks year in, year out.

[Scoop24]

Same sh*t different day 

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

6 hours ago, Beerfish said:

The narrative before he was drafted was 'he is elite!  you do not pass on elite players!'

Now that he has been drafted it is:

"Oh he won't get sacks in a 3/4 can't expect him to and if other guys play well it is probably because of him."

Garbage.  He needs to get at least 8 sacks and a ton of tackles for loss.  Mo wilkerson had 10.5 and 12 sack seasons for us.  He needs to be that good in very short order.

THIRD OVERALL PICK IN THE DRAFT.

Agree 1000% with this post.  Not a shot in hell this kid lives up to the 3rd overall pick. He would have to become Aaron Donald. Which ain't happening 

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

6 hours ago, TheGoose said:

I added to the post.

Point is, DTs and NTs drafted in the first three rounds of the ‘18 and ‘17 drafts have accumulated no more than 5.5 sacks. 

Granted, Aaron Donald lead the league last year with 20.5 sacks, the next closest was Deforrest Buckner (12). 

It’s not typically a high-sack rate position. 

Which is the exact reason why it was stupid to draft a DT at #3 overall

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

This is EXACTLY what I read all last season about the rookie QB we picked at #3.

Are you questioning Sam's greatness

[Mogglez]

You people clicking 8 sacks are outta your minds.

[Scoop24]

7 hours ago, RobR said:

I'm not worried about GW using him correctly. I'm more concerned about the prospect himself because when he doesn't live up to his draft choice we will hear in no particular order.

He's young

Only had one year of starting experience

He;s not being used correctly

He needs help around him

He's a rookie, they're not supposed to be good

Etc.

Hope you have this same energy when Ed Oliver isn’t Aaron Donald ..