The Idzik 12 vs. Macc's first draft: Which was worse?

[Jetsfan80]

Now that we've had plenty of time to basically fully evaluate these 2 draft classes, which one was worse?

 

"Idzik 12" (2014)

• S Calvin Pryor (1.18):  Traded for Demario Davis in 2017; currently out of the league after being released by Jaguars in December 2017
• TE Jace Amaro (2.49):  Out of the league since 2016
• CB Dexter McDougle (3.80):  Out of the league since October 2018 (currently on Arizona Hotshots in AAF)
• WR/KR Jalen Saunders (4.104):  Out of the league since 2014 (played for 4 different teams that year)
• WR Shaq Evans (4.115):  Out of the league since 2014
• OL Dakota Dozier (4.137):  Signed by Vikings on Apr 4, 2019
• LB Jeremiah George (5.154):  Out of the league since 2017
• DB Brandon Dixon (6.195):  Out of the league since 2017
• WR Quincy Enunwa (6.209):  118 career catches for 1,621 yards and 5 TD's; signed 4 year, $36M extension in December 2018
• DE IK Enemkpali (6.210):  Broke Geno Smith's jaw over $600, out of league since 2015
• QB Tajh Boyd (6.213):  Out of the league since 2014
• LB Trevor Reilly (7.233):  Out of the league since 2017

 

Macc's first draft (2015)

• DT Leonard Williams (1.6):  220 Tackles, 17.0 Sacks, 32 TFL's in 4 seasons; $14.2M cap hit in 2019 and scheduled UFA after 2019 season
• WR Devin Smith (2.37):  Out of the league since 2016
• LB Lorenzo Mauldin (3.82):  Jets traded down from 70 to 82, receiving WR DeVier Posey in transaction; Posey never caught a pass for the Jets and has been out of league since 2016 (he currently plays in the CFL), Mauldin has also been out of the league since 2016
• QB Bryce Petty (4.103):  Traded up 1 slot to acquire; out of the league since 2017
• 5th round pick traded for WR Brandon Marshall; Marshall caught 168 passes for 2, 290 yards and 17 TD's over 2 seasons before signing with Giants in 2017
• G Jarvis Harrison (5.152):  Pick received in Texans deal; Harrison has been out of the league since 2015
• NT Deon Simon (7.223):  Out of the league since 2016
• 7th round pick (# 224) used in trade up from 4.104 to 4.103
• 7th round pick (# 229) received in Marshall deal traded for RB Zac Stacy; Stacy has been out of league since 2017

[jetstream23]

What’s tastier, a sh*t burger or a sh*t sandwich?

[pdxgreen]

Are you ____ kidding me?  The Idzik draft was so f-ing bad that it took me five years before I believed a front office could build a team through the draft again!

[CrazyCarl40]

It basically comes down to who you think is better Q or Leo. If Leo is not brought back next season, that’s not great. Both are bad. Idzik’s is slightly worse because of the volume of misses. 

[chirorob]

The Brandon Marshall trade puts Macc's over the top.

He also had a top 6 pick, took the guy everyone said he should take.   Otherwise, his draft stinks

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

It basically comes down to who you think is better Q or Leo. If Leo is not brought back next season, that’s not great. Both are bad. Idzik’s is slightly worse because of the volume of misses. 

This is exactly right - everything else is garbage. 

I say Enunwa is more valuable to this team that Leo right now.  So I go with Mac being worse.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, pdxgreen said:

Are you ____ kidding me?  The Idzik draft was so f-ing bad that it took me five years before I believed a front office could build a team through the draft again!

Enunwa makes it interesting now that he's here long-term. 

That and the possibility that Leonard Williams will be allowed to walk after this season.  A 6th overall pick not playing well enough to earn a 2nd contract is very bad.  Add that to the fact that none of the other picks made in that draft are still in the league, plus the stupid trade up for Petty and deal for Zac Stacy, and it all adds up to this one being pretty close.  Which is really sad. 

Its all a matter of whether you think Enunwa >> Leonard Williams and the 2 years we got out of Brandon Marshall.  But of course you also have to factor in all the great WR's Idzik missed out on in that 2014 class. 

[Beerfish]

Idzik had a plan and drafted stupid.

Mac has no plan and drafts stupid.

[rex-n-effect]

Both drafts are awful but Idzik edges out Macc's awful draft because:

(1) IMO 2014 had a better draft class than 2015;

(2) while Macc was stuck in 2015 relying on the existing terrible scouting department Idzik had an entire year before the 2014 draft to manage the scouting department; and

(3) Idzik had the benefit of the few remaining pieces of the mid/late 2000s drafts on the OL while the two maybe best players on the roster when Macc showed up were DTs.

But these are both two terrible drafts.

 

[T0mShane]

Not to nitpick, but if you throw in Macc’s first two drafts, it’s likely that by this time next year there’s only one player left on the roster from those and that’s Jordan Jenkins. I don’t see how there’s any way they’ll franchise Leonard Williams or extend him for big money (especially after drafting Quinnen and extending Anderson), and Chuma Edoga replaces pending UFA Brandon Shell unless Edoga shows enough to be the OLT. Looking a year behind that, the 2017 draft has already been torn to shreds and Adams and Maye will be the only survivors of that debacle. 

Rebuild tho

[Scoop24]

Idzik 12 is not comparable to anyone else . It was that terrible . 

[Jetmech]

Wow, this is enlightening. Is it possible the Jets have the worst scouts ever?


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[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Not to nitpick, but if you throw in Macc’s first two drafts, it’s likely that by this time next year there’s only one player left on the roster from those and that’s Jordan Jenkins. I don’t see how there’s any way they’ll franchise Leonard Williams or extend him for big money (especially after drafting Quinnen and extending Anderson), and Chuma Edoga replaces pending UFA Brandon Shell unless Edoga shows enough to be the OLT. Looking a year behind that, the 2017 draft has already been torn to shreds and Adams and Maye will be the only survivors of that debacle.  

Rebuild tho

 

2016 was really bad too, with Hackenberg being Macc's worst pick in his tenure.  But I still think 2015 was slightly worse.

I'll probably do another poll in a few months once the Browns cut Juston Burris, lol. 

[dbatesman]

Macc gets a pass for his first draft, because he was cleaning up the mess that Idzik made. Idzik didn't have to deal with the fallout of Idzik Idziking the draft by Idziking all the wrong Idziks Idzik Idzik Idzik

[New York Mick]

Neither are good but Dick is definitely worse then Mac. The bigger question is who the **** is scouting these players?

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Macc gets a pass for his first draft, because he was cleaning up the mess that Idzik made. Idzik didn't have to deal with the fallout of Idzik Idziking the draft by Idziking all the wrong Idziks Idzik Idzik Idzik

This completely ignores that Idzik came into the job with no cap space and had to replace forty of Rex’s personal friends and family members from a bottom three roster, all the while dealing with an entitled, juvenile head coach who was leading a very loud and very obvious whisper campaign against him for not signing DRC upon entering the building. Maccagnan inherited a team with $70 mil in cap space in the primary stages of an actual rebuild and got a milquetoast head coach to work with/around. Idzik is a saint who died for Tannenbaum’s sins.

[batman10023]

did any team have worst drafts in those years?  the 11/12 misses were almost mathematically impossible.

[Untouchable]

The Idzik 12 is ridiculously awful

 

A blind monkey throwing darts at a giant big board could draft better. 

Most of the people here could’ve just picked random names off a Draft Countdown or Walter Football list and had a better outing.

To walk away from that class with nothing more than Enunwa and a backup interior OL like Dozier should be grounds for being executed in the street. 

[Joe W. Namath]

Enunwa is the best player out of those 2 drafts so Macs draft is worse.

[slats]

I don't understand the need to make this a thing. What are there? Maybe three or four guys here who might defend Mac?

I think Mac sucks, but I still hope this draft turns out to be a good one. He should be gone, but he's not, so I root for him to get something right because I still root for the team. Idzik should also be gone and the advantage he has there is that he is. 

[Jetsfan80]

FYI much has been made about the talent Idzik missed out on in 2014.  Here's the notable players who Macc passed on in 2015:

• 1st round:  RB Todd Gurley
• 2nd round:  G Ali Marpet, EDGE Preston Smith, CB Ronald Darby, DE Frank Clark, G/C Mitch Morse
• 3rd round:  RB David Johnson, DE Trey Flowers, EDGE Danielle Hunter
• 4th round:  EDGE Za'Darius Smith, WR Stefon Diggs, S Adrian Amos, WR Jamison Crowder, DT Grady Jarrett
• 5th round:  S Quandre Diggs
• 7th round:  OT Trent Brown

 

Compare that to who Idzik passed on in 2014:

• 1st round:  WR Brandin Cooks, EDGE Demarcus Lawrence, EDGE Dee Ford, S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
• 2nd round:  WR Davante Adams, WR Jarvis Landry
• 3rd round:  G Gabe Jackson, G Trai Turner, WR John Brown, RB Jerick McKinnon
• 4th round:  RB Devonta Freeeman
• 5th round:  C Corey Linsley
• 6th round:  C Matt Paradis, CB T.J. Carrie
• 7th round:  OT Charles Leno

 

Both missed out on a ton of talent.  Its just that because we took such terrible WR's in the 4th round in 2014, that's what people remember most. 

[Integrity28]

This effectively boils down to who is not impactful, Leonard Williams or Quincy Enunwa?

I’ll say Leo. Barely, because he’s stayed healthy.

What a horror show to only get two average players from two drafts with that many surplus picks.

[Irish Jet]

Now that I’ve seen this sh*t written down I’m amazed we’ve even won a game in the last couple of years.

F*ck me.

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

This is exactly right - everything else is garbage. 

I say Enunwa is more valuable to this team that Leo right now.  So I go with Mac being worse.

 

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

It basically comes down to who you think is better Q or Leo. If Leo is not brought back next season, that’s not great. Both are bad. Idzik’s is slightly worse because of the volume of misses. 

 

1 hour ago, rex-n-effect said:

Both drafts are awful but Idzik edges out Macc's awful draft because:

(1) IMO 2014 had a better draft class than 2015;

(2) while Macc was stuck in 2015 relying on the existing terrible scouting department Idzik had an entire year before the 2014 draft to manage the scouting department; and

(3) Idzik had the benefit of the few remaining pieces of the mid/late 2000s drafts on the OL while the two maybe best players on the roster when Macc showed up were DTs.

But these are both two terrible drafts.

 

Mac had 6 picks... and if you look at the draft class of 2015, it was one of the worst draft classes in recent history. Outside of Gurley, there is very little talent there... maybe Cooper 

2014 has Hall of fame players and numerous all-pro talent... just see for yourself... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/draft.htm ... some of these players are still peaking and are the best talent in the league at the moment.. too many to list ... AND HE HAD 12 Picks.... How can you **** up 12 picks in an extremely talented draft.... Idzik 12 is historically bad... 

Its not even close... 

[Skeptable]

49 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

This effectively boils down to who is not impactful, Leonard Williams or Quincy Enunwa?

I’ll say Leo. Barely, because he’s stayed healthy.

What a horror show to only get two average players from two drafts with that many surplus picks.

No, that is too simple of an analysis... look at the draft classes themselves... 2015 had almost no talent... almost all busts... 2014 is one of the most talented drafts... to not come away with at least a couple starters with 12 picks is a whole new level of bad.

[Integrity28]

3 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

No, that is too simple of an analysis... look at the draft classes themselves... 2015 had almost no talent... almost all busts... 2014 is one of the most talented drafts... to not come away with at least a couple starters with 12 picks is a whole new level of bad.

We both arrived at the same place. You just worked harder.

[slimjasi]

Both drafts are poopy, but Idzik's draft is historically bad. 

Directly comparing the two, Idzik had 33% more picks than Mac had, and yet, somehow managed to achieve an even more underwhelming net return (I would take Leo over Quincy, by a slight margin). Also, Idzik's 1st round pick busted hard, while Mac's 1st rounder is a good (although slightly disappointing) player. 

Also, if you include the Brandon Marshall trade, Mac wins comfortably. 

 

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Enunwa is the best player out of those 2 drafts so Macs draft is worse.

False. 

Enunwa has yet to demonstrate that he can consistently stay on the field, which is, unfortunately, the single most important attribute of any player in any sport. 

I like Enunwa, but he's become drastically overrated by Jets fans - which, incidentally, is the main reason I wanted us to take another WR somewhere in this draft. 

[Jet Life]

Idzik went 1/12 and Macc went 1/6. Both stunk but Idziks was worse. But Maccs 2016 and 2017 drafts were awful too. Macc is just as bad of a drafter

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

This completely ignores that Idzik came into the job with no cap space and had to replace forty of Rex’s personal friends and family members from a bottom three roster, all the while dealing with an entitled, juvenile head coach who was leading a very loud and very obvious whisper campaign against him for not signing DRC upon entering the building. Maccagnan inherited a team with $70 mil in cap space in the primary stages of an actual rebuild and got a milquetoast head coach to work with/around. Idzik is a saint who died for Tannenbaum’s sins.

Idzik may have had the worst draft in the history of the franchise. 

 

27 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

 

 

Mac had 6 picks... and if you look at the draft class of 2015, it was one of the worst draft classes in recent history. Outside of Gurley, there is very little talent there... maybe Cooper 

2014 has Hall of fame players and numerous all-pro talent... just see for yourself... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/draft.htm ... some of these players are still peaking and are the best talent in the league at the moment.. too many to list ... AND HE HAD 12 Picks.... How can you **** up 12 picks in an extremely talented draft.... Idzik 12 is historically bad... 

Its not even close... 

I have argued this before. If you look at the 2015 1st round, for example, the only player, in hindsight, who Mac should have taken instead of Leo is Gurley. That draft is a minefield of 1st round disappointments. 

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, Jet Life said:

Idzik went 1/12 and Macc went 1/6. Both stunk but Idziks was worse. But Maccs 2016 and 2017 drafts were awful too. Macc is just as bad of a drafter

Ultimately, I think history will demonstrate Macc actually went 0/6, PLUS gave up picks to move up for Bryce Petty and to trade for Zac Stacy.  Despite people throwing out there that Leo was among the leaders in QB Pressures last year, PFF ranked him the # 30 DT in the NFL last year. 

If he doesn't play significantly better under Gregg Williams this year, all we'll get out of a top 10 selection is a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2021.  That's not a "hit".  When you draft a guy at a non-premium position at # 6, at bare minimum you want to get a guy who proves worthy of a second contract. 

If we end up letting Leo walk after this season and then were to re-visit this, I imagine the poll numbers would change pretty significantly. 

[Skeptable]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Idzik may have had the worst draft in the history of the franchise. 

 

I have argued this before. If you look at the 2015 1st round, for example, the only player, in hindsight, who Mac should have taken instead of Leo is Gurley. That draft is a minefield of 1st round disappointments. 

Idzik draft may be one of the worst of all time... 

[Jet Life]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Ultimately, I think history will demonstrate Macc actually went 0/6.  Despite people throwing out there that Leo was among the leaders in QB Pressures last year, PFF ranked him the # 30 DT in the NFL last year. 

If he doesn't play significantly better under Gregg Williams this year, all we'll get out of a top 10 selection is a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2021.  That's not a "hit".  When you draft a guy at a non-premium position at # 6, at bare minimum you want to get a guy who proves worthy of a second contract. 

If we end up letting Leo walk after this season and re-visit this, I imagine the poll numbers would change pretty significantly. 

I was mostly just stating who is still on the roster. But yeah, Im not big on Leo at all and would hesitate to pay him a big contract. Hindsight should have taken Gurley but the top of that draft did suck though

[Skeptable]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Ultimately, I think history will demonstrate Macc actually went 0/6.  Despite people throwing out there that Leo was among the leaders in QB Pressures last year, PFF ranked him the # 30 DT in the NFL last year. 

If he doesn't play significantly better under Gregg Williams this year, all we'll get out of a top 10 selection is a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2021.  That's not a "hit".  When you draft a guy at a non-premium position at # 6, at bare minimum you want to get a guy who proves worthy of a second contract. 

Even if he did go 0/6 like you are implying... there was almost no talent in that draft... Idzik draft was loaded with all-star talent.. 

[CTM]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I don't understand the need to make this a thing. What are there? Maybe three or four guys here who might defend Mac?

I think Mac sucks, but I still hope this draft turns out to be a good one. He should be gone, but he's not, so I root for him to get something right because I still root for the team. Idzik should also be gone and the advantage he has there is that he is. 

Because there are zealots at the extremes of both ends of this debate that have become emotionally invested in it. Most of us realize they both suck.