Maccagnan on why Jets didn't trade down

[choon328]

1 minute ago, billneftleberg said:

just because you get a subpar offer doesnt mean its of sufficient quality that you accept anything

i guess you think he should have accepted 3 5th round picks for number 3 overall

 

you have zero idea what he was offered or how the players in those spots were evaluated. none of us do Years ago I was one of several jets fans interviewed before the draft by ESPN, AND i WAS QUOTED AS SAYING IF I RAN THE JETS DRAFT I WOULD TRADE THE 3RD OVERALL PICK FOR THE NUMBER 4 OVERALL AND JOHNNY JOHNSON. 4 HOURS LATER THAT TRADE ACTUALLY HAPPENED. ESPN made a big deal of it, But as i said then it was a logical guess and no fan is qualified for more than that.

truth is youre not in the room so what do you know

Who the **** cares what you think? 

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t think the 2nd option positions us better for the future.

Mainly because I don’t think Burns is going to be some sort of dominant edgerusher and Greedy plays like a festering vagina.

I thought Bosa was easily the best edgerusher in this draft, then you had a drop off to a guy like Josh Allen, and then another drop off to a jumbled group of Burns, Sweat, Ferrell and Gary.

I know a lot of people aren’t psyched about the Quinnen pick, but at least he has a great chance to become a dominant interior DL and a key cog on this team for a decade. He’s also thankfully more of an athlete than guys we’ve picked in the past along the defensive line.

I’m also not nearly as convinced as many others that we’re totally f*cked for not having drafted a center. Harrison at least played at a competent level and I’m pretty sure the Jets will eventually bring in a vet like Wisniewski or Sullivan to push him in camp.

Overall, I’m pretty content with what was done in the offseason. 

I think where we differ is on how this off-season sets the Jets up two years from now. It’s gonna be rebuild city again and all they’ll have to show for it is Williams, who’s going to be a high-end DT putting up 8 sacks per, which is meh. 

[billneftleberg]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

NAME THE ELITE PLAYER BILL

quinnen williams

unlike you ill say it beforehand and not be like you the master of the second guess

youll piss and moan about not trading down and if williams proves to be elite, youll pretend you wanted him all along

its what you do.

unlike you maccagnan doesnt have the luxury of 20/20 hindsight

 

 

 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, billneftleberg said:

quinnen williams

BILL YOU ARE A FOCKING CLOWN I’LL BE LIKE YOU AND SAY THAT RIGHT UP FRONT

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

BILL YOU ARE A FOCKING CLOWN I’LL BE LIKE YOU AND SAY THAT RIGHT UP FRONT

LIAR!  You are not saying it like Bill.  Bill does not use capitalization.

[T0mShane]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

LIAR!  You are not saying it like Bill.  Bill does not use capitalization.

I wanted Bill to hear me. 

[billneftleberg]

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Who the **** cares what you think? 

ESPN OBVIOUSLY DID

THATS THE POINT AT LEAST i UNDERSTOOD IT FOR WHAT IT WAS, I WAS 1000% CORRECT, IN THAT INSTANCE BUT AT LEAST I KNEW IT WAS A LOGICAL INFERENCE OF RELEVANT FACTS THAT FORTUNATELY HAPPENED TO COME TRUE

and not that I was a football savant like some of you idiots seem to think you are

you and Tom Shane actually think you know something

trust me you dont

[billneftleberg]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

BILL YOU ARE A FOCKING CLOWN I’LL BE LIKE YOU AND SAY THAT RIGHT UP FRONT

I might be tom, but at least being a clown is something you actually have some experience with.......unlike football

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, billneftleberg said:

I might be tom, but at least being a clown is something you actually have some experience with.......unlike football

Excuse me, Bill. I was the backup strong safety on my high school team so eat this fat ******* dick.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I can agree with this.  I wanted Oliver, but I understand Williams.   It's not like he picked Clelin Ferrell at 3 or anything. 

What's not to understand about Ferrell? He's been one of the guys in this big effing deal defensive line class as long as it has been regarded as such. He never jumped or ran a 40 and otherwise had a very quiet process because he was rehabbing an injury and there were plenty of other guys out there doing things to talk about. That explains the perception. He was viewed as a potential top five pick a year ago and had a great season and lo and behold did in fact go top five. That explains the reality. We just weren't paying attention explains the disconnect.

[RutgersJetFan]

I like Bill. Big fan.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

36 minutes ago, billneftleberg said:

just because you get a subpar offer doesnt mean its of sufficient quality that you accept anything

i guess you think he should have accepted 3 5th round picks for number 3 overall

 

you have zero idea what he was offered or how the players in those spots were evaluated. none of us do Years ago I was one of several jets fans interviewed before the draft by ESPN, AND i WAS QUOTED AS SAYING IF I RAN THE JETS DRAFT I WOULD TRADE THE 3RD OVERALL PICK FOR THE NUMBER 4 OVERALL AND JOHNNY JOHNSON. 4 HOURS LATER THAT TRADE ACTUALLY HAPPENED. ESPN made a big deal of it, But as i said then it was a logical guess and no fan is qualified for more than that.

As one of the Jets fans at radio city for the draft you can get a million things weirdly specifically right and still be presumptively unqualified to tie your shoes.

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

What's not to understand about Ferrell? He's been one of the guys in this big effing deal defensive line class as long as it has been regarded as such. He never jumped or ran a 40 and otherwise had a very quiet process because he was rehabbing an injury and there were plenty of other guys out there doing things to talk about. That explains the perception. He was viewed as a potential top five pick a year ago and had a great season and lo and behold did in fact go top five. That explains the reality. We just weren't paying attention explains the disconnect.

I guess I didn't pay as much attention to the process as I thought because I don't remember Ferrell being injured.  Kind of explains how far off I am

[joewilly12]

 

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I like Bill. Big fan.

We’ll remember this.

[RutgersJetFan]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

We’ll remember this.

[Jet_Engine1]

12 hours ago, Philc1 said:

You guys realize you can’t just trade down at will?

Watch me.

[static14]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I wanted Bill to hear me. 

Dominating.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

12 hours ago, choon328 said:

I think the problem is his inability to make a decision that may be criticized. He's so worried about the perception of not getting enough in a trade return that he's not doing whats in the best interest of the team but what's in the best interest of his career. That's evident from his comments in that article and years past where he's blamed the offers coming in on why he didn't trade down.

Exactly...you totally nail it, not that I haven’t said the same thing in different words for unfortunately YEARS now.  I still can’t fathom how this guy has lasted 5 DRAFTS haha.

”Scared money doesn’t win money” as a poker saying goes, and Maccagnan learning how to wheel and deal at this point, when he has shown not a great aptitude for it, seems like a pipe dream.

That’s not to say he should have definitely traded down this year, although I wanted him to.  The fact that Washington could just stand pat at 15 and still get their QB seems to be enough evidence that virtually no one was going to give up fair value for pick #3 this year.

Didnt Maccagnan trade down 10 spots in the 4th to move up 15 or some sh*t in the 5th?  Makes no sense haha.

[T0mShane]

34 minutes ago, static14 said:

Dominating.

You've gotta be aggressive with the alt accounts right off the bat.

[CTM]

The pissy cricket swimming upstream is an interesting development. I wonder how long before T0m and friends start hedging 

[GREENBEAN]

10 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Lies. Truth is Macc refused to trade back because he wouldn't have gotten same value in trading up for Darnold (the three 2's). It would have made him appear dumb but he's already a buffoon in the eyes of the football world. Even two 2's and a 4 spread out over 2 years would have been better than nothing.

In all honesty, I think this is the closest to the truth than all the other theories we are hearing around here.  We discussed this very obstacle daily here.  A logical person would have no problem understanding that this was a different scenario with different players than last year, but the fans and media are not logical. Macc would have gotten raked over the coals daily if he got less than he gave last year. It's complete BS if this is the case, but I think Macc would have had a very hard time making the exact trade from the opposite side and not recouping the same value. 

Again, we have no proof this is what held Macc back, but didn't the Skins give up a 2nd next year to move up from 46 to 26 for Montez Sweat? I'm comfortable saying they would more than likely have given up 2 2nds to move up to 3 for their QB. But Macc more than likely had the imaginary handcuffs of the Darnold trade on. oh well. 

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, CTM said:

The pissy cricket swimming upstream is an interesting development. I wonder how long before T0m and friends start hedging 

He’s always been a rogue agent. 

[choon328]

4 hours ago, billneftleberg said:

ESPN OBVIOUSLY DID

THATS THE POINT AT LEAST i UNDERSTOOD IT FOR WHAT IT WAS, I WAS 1000% CORRECT, IN THAT INSTANCE BUT AT LEAST I KNEW IT WAS A LOGICAL INFERENCE OF RELEVANT FACTS THAT FORTUNATELY HAPPENED TO COME TRUE

and not that I was a football savant like some of you idiots seem to think you are

you and Tom Shane actually think you know something

trust me you dont

Lol. Clown

[Smashmouth]

16 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Macc is a terrible GM and this inability to trade back isnt a 2019 issue, it's been an issue throughout his time as the Jets GM. The Jets always are offered trash draft offers because Macc doesnt know how to negotiate a counter offer and then close on fair draft trades. Multiple times the Jets took who was considered the "best prospect in the draft", so if that is considered factual, then why is it that the Jets are never able to trade back with such awesome talent on the board? Why is it that Macc cant find 1 of the other 31 teams willing to give up fair value to have the opportunity to draft such top talent? It's because Macc isnt a draft trade negotiator. 

Many GM's will start out with asking for the world during a trade, Macc has to find that midway point where they're satisfied with his counter offer.  But he's not a good GM, hence why folks continue to think that it's about the offers coming in and never once thinking about Macc's inability to counter offer. 

It will be an upgrade when Macc is finally removed from that position that he was clearly never prepared for 

To say Macc is a bad GM is fine I won't argue that point when it comes to the draft but to claim you know about his ability to trade up or down is ridiculous since you have zero access to that information in any respect .

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

To say Macc is a bad GM is fine I won't argue that point when it comes to the draft but to claim you know about his ability to trade up or down is ridiculous since you have zero access to that information in any respect .

I didn't speak about his ability, but his inability...which is something that we've all seen and can confirm by his inability to make a move back in multiple drafts with players still on the board that was considered the best talents in the draft that we didnt need. 

No one needs special access to see that.

[WowOhWow]

On 5/2/2019 at 8:37 AM, Jetster said:

Talk to me after this season. If the Jets go down in flames I'm right there with you but if we finally see a team that actually gets BETTER as the season progresses, unlike the last 8 years, than all you Macc haters will have to take your medicine line men & like it. No one knows sh*t until the beginning of December. 50 years, I think we should all have the patience for another 8 months. 

What has Macc done in his 5 years at the helm for you to be such a patient supporter of his?  What specifically are you pointing to to have such hope?

He passed on Mahomes and Watson as QB's.  He got us Sam, but had to trade a lot of capital to get him.  He's drafted the best player available at the top of round 1 (but the team still stinks).  His draft record and his roster building has been atrocious.  

But you defend him.  Why?  

This year he drafted a guy that tore the same ACL 2x in the last 2-years and played 5 college games at RU.  He also drafted a guy that just had 3 shoulder surgeries at a crowded position.  

The Macc patience is unbelievable here.  He sucks.  Plain and simple.  

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, WowOhWow said:

What has Macc done in his 5 years at the helm for you to be such a patient supporter of his?  What specifically are you pointing to to have such hope?

He passed on Mahomes and Watson as QB's.  He got us Sam, but had to trade a lot of capital to get him.  He's drafted the best player available at the top of round 1 (but the team still stinks).  His draft record and his roster building has been atrocious.  

But you defend him.  Why?  

This year he drafted a guy that tore the same ACL 2x in the last 2-years and played 5 college games at RU.  He also drafted a guy that just had 3 shoulder surgeries at a crowded position.  

The Macc patience is unbelievable here.  He sucks.  Plain and simple.  

Because unlike people here who believe this rebuild has been going on since Macc arrived have their head in the sand. 

2015 was a complete go for it year, they literally rebuilt the secondary through free agency because every draft pick prior were complete failures. 

The shelves were COMPLETELY bare & even the players he thought we could build around were terrible (Mo Wilkerson?, lazy fat azz after he got paid). 

Pryor, Milliner, McDougle all had to be replaced. 

Revis (Woody couldn't wait to get him back), Cro, Skrine, Gilchrist. 

Bowles proved he was absolutely terrible in 4 years, constantly blowing games with horrible in game coaching & his defense getting WORSE every year.

I'm not exonerating Macc, he's made some poor choices but you can't plan for injuries (Devin Smith, Marcus Maye not staying on the field). Go back & look at the Darron Lee draft, not a good year to be at 20. 

Look at a team like the Jaguars who everyone was anointing, what happened to them last year? The Steelers? The Vikings? 

It takes some luck, staying healthy, and number 1 a good QB. So he passed on Watson, I believe Sam Darnold will be a better QB than Watson. He & everyone else passed up Mahomes, revisionist history. 

2015, 2016 Fitz redux, 2017 McCown, were wasted years treading water. We have now the most important pc to the puzzle (Darnold), we finally have a QB + an offensive coach. We have a very experienced DC in Williams, we signed a Pro Bowl RB who is 4 years younger & has had half the carries LT did when he came here in 2010. We signed a Pro Bowl LB in Mosely, we signed a very tough, very good experienced slot WR in Crowder. We traded for a former Pro Bowl Guard. Our young TE Herndon ranked very high last year & will be better just for his familiarality with Sam & being a 2nd year player. We drafted the CONCENSUS best player in the draft in Quinnen Williams, can every talking head & coach that studies film be wrong? Because they would ALL have to be wrong for Q to be a failure. You guys complain if he drafts unathletic Saints, then you complain when drafts high ceiling guys with questionable character like Polite & Chuma. 

Like I said, I'll bash the sh*t out of the whole crew I found I don't see development as the year progresses, but I'm willing to let it play out, and I am optimistic. I think we have a lot self motivated guys that will drag the slackers on board to create a pretty TOUGH Jet team the fans can be proud of. I'm really looking forward to 2019.

[WowOhWow]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Because unlike people here who believe this rebuild has been going on since Macc arrived have their head in the sand. 

2015 was a complete go for it year, they literally rebuilt the secondary through free agency because every draft pick prior were complete failures. 

The shelves were COMPLETELY bare & even the players he thought we could build around were terrible (Mo Wilkerson?, lazy fat azz after he got paid). 

Pryor, Milliner, McDougle all had to be replaced. 

Revis (Woody couldn't wait to get him back), Cro, Skrine, Gilchrist. 

Bowles proved he was absolutely terrible in 4 years, constantly blowing games with horrible in game coaching & his defense getting WORSE every year.

I'm not exonerating Macc, he's made some poor choices but you can't plan for injuries (Devin Smith, Marcus Maye not staying on the field). Go back & look at the Darron Lee draft, not a good year to be at 20. 

Look at a team like the Jaguars who everyone was anointing, what happened to them last year? The Steelers? The Vikings? 

It takes some luck, staying healthy, and number 1 a good QB. So he passed on Watson, I believe Sam Darnold will be a better QB than Watson. He & everyone else passed up Mahomes, revisionist history. 

2015, 2016 Fitz redux, 2017 McCown, were wasted years treading water. We have now the most important pc to the puzzle (Darnold), we finally have a QB + an offensive coach. We have a very experienced DC in Williams, we signed a Pro Bowl RB who is 4 years younger & has had half the carries LT did when he came here in 2010. We signed a Pro Bowl LB in Mosely, we signed a very tough, very good experienced slot WR in Crowder. We traded for a former Pro Bowl Guard. Our young TE Herndon ranked very high last year & will be better just for his familiarality with Sam & being a 2nd year player. We drafted the CONCENSUS best player in the draft in Quinnen Williams, can every talking head & coach that studies film be wrong? Because they would ALL have to be wrong for Q to be a failure. You guys complain if he drafts unathletic Saints, then you complain when drafts high ceiling guys with questionable character like Polite & Chuma. 

Like I said, I'll bash the sh*t out of the whole crew I found I don't see development as the year progresses, but I'm willing to let it play out, and I am optimistic. I think we have a lot self motivated guys that will drag the slackers on board to create a pretty TOUGH Jet team the fans can be proud of. I'm really looking forward to 2019.

Macc's record as GM - 

 

Macc's free agent record as Jets GM - 

*The only players still on the roster are McClendon and Beachum.  Everyone else is gone.

Everything going on with the Jets is Macc's doing.  It's his team...and we stink and have stunk to the tune of 14-34 over the last 3-years.  

My point is that I expect better results from the leaders of this franchise.  It's a bottom line business as we have been terrible since he got here.  Time for someone new.

 

 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Only thing I want to hear from Mac is his resignation or a brief thank you after getting fired

This was his worst draft in his time here and that is saying something, any hope that he was learning is gone - time to move on