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Jetster

Jets 1 more CB away from top 10 defense

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So we still have 30 million burning a hole in our wallet. Do we go into the season talking a chance with with this CB group as it stands? Or do we aggressively solidify it with another high priced veteran? 

When word arose that Chris Harris or Xavier Rhodes could become available for a trade, right away I thought Macc needs to morph into trader Mike & do what he has to do keep opposing offenses from scorching our secondary. 

The Jets are getting pretty deep up front & at LB with a lot of guys that can be rotational players. Luvu, Copeland, Hewitt, not household names, but guys that might play a huge role in Gregg Williams pressure schemes now that teams will have their hands full inside with L & Q Williams. How will the Williams boys help out the hustling Anderson? Then for depth you still have McClendon (might be cut if Shepard or Foley rise). At LB we added a stud in Mosely to a decent now veteran guys Avery Williamson & Jenkins. 

Contrary to popular belief here Jamal Adams brings it every week & is an ascending player in this league, don't believe it? Don't worry he'll tell you 😲. If Marcus Maye could get through a damn season this is a helluva tandem at safety behind this line & the LBs. It allows Williams to bring pressure from every level of the defense. 

This is where things get iffy is at CB. Will any of these young CBs step up? Will Williams pressure allow them to play more aggressive compared to Bowles/Kacey backpedal defensive style? My biggest fear is that Trumaine Johnson fails & we have no one to replace him & because of this I think it's imperative to get another veteran CB in here. Even better if one of the young guys develops is the option to replace Tru if he falls off a cliff or hurts himself counting his money. Poole was a great addition to bring toughness in the slot, I would hate the fact that we've upgraded this entire defense, Q.Williams, Polite, Cashman + free agency, and have these weak points at CB that teams can target & exploit when we can't get pressure. It's a long way from the opener so I hope Macc can close this one loophole I see in this team on defense. 

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maybe but at the same time they should be able to generate more qb pressure and that will help johnson /roberts/??? take care of the receivers.  if anything, and if the pressure is good, they'll need the safeties and linebackers to covers the backs, slots and te's.  

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They still don't have a legit pass rusher that can be counted on. Acting like Polite solved the edge rushing issue is weak. Who knows what he'll do. As of right now they don't have a pass rush without blitzing and they don't have the CB's to support that style of defense. 

Adding a #2 would be great but do the Jets have a #1? Is Trumaine actually going to play up to his capabilities? There are way way too many question marks to think they're a #2 CB away from being top 10.

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2 hours ago, Jetster said:

So we still have 30 million burning a hole in our wallet. Do we go into the season talking a chance with with this CB group as it stands? Or do we aggressively solidify it with another high priced veteran? 

When word arose that Chris Harris or Xavier Rhodes could become available for a trade, right away I thought Macc needs to morph into trader Mike & do what he has to do keep opposing offenses from scorching our secondary. 

The Jets are getting pretty deep up front & at LB with a lot of guys that can be rotational players. Luvu, Copeland, Hewitt, not household names, but guys that might play a huge role in Gregg Williams pressure schemes now that teams will have their hands full inside with L & Q Williams. How will the Williams boys help out the hustling Anderson? Then for depth you still have McClendon (might be cut if Shepard or Foley rise). At LB we added a stud in Mosely to a decent now veteran guys Avery Williamson & Jenkins. 

Contrary to popular belief here Jamal Adams brings it every week & is an ascending player in this league, don't believe it? Don't worry he'll tell you 😲. If Marcus Maye could get through a damn season this is a helluva tandem at safety behind this line & the LBs. It allows Williams to bring pressure from every level of the defense. 

This is where things get iffy is at CB. Will any of these young CBs step up? Will Williams pressure allow them to play more aggressive compared to Bowles/Kacey backpedal defensive style? My biggest fear is that Trumaine Johnson fails & we have no one to replace him & because of this I think it's imperative to get another veteran CB in here. Even better if one of the young guys develops is the option to replace Tru if he falls off a cliff or hurts himself counting his money. Poole was a great addition to bring toughness in the slot, I would hate the fact that we've upgraded this entire defense, Q.Williams, Polite, Cashman + free agency, and have these weak points at CB that teams can target & exploit when we can't get pressure. It's a long way from the opener so I hope Macc can close this one loophole I see in this team on defense. 

Nice post Jetster

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27 minutes ago, CurtMart said:

Bowles left us in the high 20s. The day he was fired, we jumped into the teens. 

I could be totally wrong about Bowles & Rogers but deep in my football loving being, my thought is that these guys weren't bad, they were HORRIBLE and really had no clue what they were doing, showed their hand at every turn when blitzing & were so vanilla that opposing coaches went undefeated against them with back up QBs. 

That means in the week leading up to playing the Jets, backups like Matt Barkley were able to watch film, diagnose this defense & shred it like a head of lettuce. It's unfathomable to think that a coaching staff can't put together a game plan to disrupt a backup QB, or in Barlkeys case, a guy signed off the freaking street! Remember Houston & the dude that got called off his couch? Bortles lost his job this offseason he was so bad last year, but he literally passed at will on the Jets defense, I think he was 25-28 with 2 drops, lol. 

I'm not here pounding the table & saying Gregg Williams is a defensive guru, but what I believe is that Bowles/Rogers fail at scheme, teaching, and getting maximum effort from everyone. Adams, Mosley & now Q.Williams are three guys known for maximum effort, follow me guys. And the guys that don't follow these 3 guys lead will get a full facial from Gregg Williams. I picture a very high effort aggressive pressing defense next year, ESPECIALLY when Sam gets them leads. Polar opposite of the get a lead back peddling prevent defense, or the blitzing CBs from 15 yards back we saw last year.

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Only one CB from being a top ten defense after spending first round picks on defense in four of the last five years (including the best player in the draft in the top six every other year for a total of three times) and handing out huge deals to a cornerback and a linebacker and significant deals to a defensive lineman and another linebacker in free agency the last two years.

Not bad.

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Can they play a down before we put them on that pedistal? Yes they added some pieces but until we see them play they are still a defensive unit on a team that won 4 games.

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I think the defense will be much, much better, but it's too soon for this. 

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How about the Rutgers kid?  You know, the one without any knees?  What's his chances?

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1 minute ago, peebag said:

How about the Rutgers kid?  You know, the one without any knees?  What's his chances?

That's not fair.

He has a knee. 

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Lol on paper we probably are the #1 D in the nfl. If we aren’t top 10 it will be an epic failure.

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1 hour ago, choon328 said:

They still don't have a legit pass rusher that can be counted on. Acting like Polite solved the edge rushing issue is weak. Who knows what he'll do. As of right now they don't have a pass rush without blitzing and they don't have the CB's to support that style of defense. 

Pass rush is the key, IMHO. 

Last year, Leonard Williams had 5 sacks and 20 QB hits, Anderson had 7 sacks and 16 QB hits, while McClendon, Pennel, and Shepherd combined for 0 sacks and 7 QB hits (Shepherd had five of those, fwiw). Those three guys are now gonna primarily be replaced by Quinnen Williams, who had the top interior pass rushing grade in college last season, IIRC. That alone should be a major improvement. Copeland had 5 sacks and 14 QB hits, and Luvu added 3 sacks and 11 QB hits so mixing Polite in there, again, should be an improvement. 

Jets should be able to get to the QB with just four rushers regularly this season, and with a combination of Polite, Copeland, and/or Luvu on the field at the same time, they'll be able to disguise where that fourth rusher is coming from. 

And that's critical because the CB position is definitely questionable on the Jets. 

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  • Post of the Week 1

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3 hours ago, Jetster said:

So we still have 30 million burning a hole in our wallet. Do we go into the season talking a chance with with this CB group as it stands? Or do we aggressively solidify it with another high priced veteran? 

When word arose that Chris Harris or Xavier Rhodes could become available for a trade, right away I thought Macc needs to morph into trader Mike & do what he has to do keep opposing offenses from scorching our secondary. 

The Jets are getting pretty deep up front & at LB with a lot of guys that can be rotational players. Luvu, Copeland, Hewitt, not household names, but guys that might play a huge role in Gregg Williams pressure schemes now that teams will have their hands full inside with L & Q Williams. How will the Williams boys help out the hustling Anderson? Then for depth you still have McClendon (might be cut if Shepard or Foley rise). At LB we added a stud in Mosely to a decent now veteran guys Avery Williamson & Jenkins. 

Contrary to popular belief here Jamal Adams brings it every week & is an ascending player in this league, don't believe it? Don't worry he'll tell you 😲. If Marcus Maye could get through a damn season this is a helluva tandem at safety behind this line & the LBs. It allows Williams to bring pressure from every level of the defense. 

This is where things get iffy is at CB. Will any of these young CBs step up? Will Williams pressure allow them to play more aggressive compared to Bowles/Kacey backpedal defensive style? My biggest fear is that Trumaine Johnson fails & we have no one to replace him & because of this I think it's imperative to get another veteran CB in here. Even better if one of the young guys develops is the option to replace Tru if he falls off a cliff or hurts himself counting his money. Poole was a great addition to bring toughness in the slot, I would hate the fact that we've upgraded this entire defense, Q.Williams, Polite, Cashman + free agency, and have these weak points at CB that teams can target & exploit when we can't get pressure. It's a long way from the opener so I hope Macc can close this one loophole I see in this team on defense. 

Teams are going to rain passes down on our secondary.  Better create a pass rush

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17 minutes ago, slats said:

Pass rush is the key, IMHO. 

Last year, Leonard Williams had 5 sacks and 20 QB hits, Anderson had 7 sacks and 16 QB hits, while McClendon, Pennel, and Shepherd combined for 0 sacks and 7 QB hits (Shepherd had five of those, fwiw). Those three guys are now gonna primarily be replaced by Quinnen Williams, who had the top interior pass rushing grade in college last season, IIRC. That alone should be a major improvement. Copeland had 5 sacks and 14 QB hits, and Luvu added 3 sacks and 11 QB hits so mixing Polite in there, again, should be an improvement. 

Jets should be able to get to the QB with just four rushers regularly this season, and with a combination of Polite, Copeland, and/or Luvu on the field at the same time, they'll be able to disguise where that fourth rusher is coming from. 

And that's critical because the CB position is definitely questionable on the Jets. 

I think Williams and Polite make a difference.  the biggest difference maker will be Greg W.

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52 minutes ago, peebag said:

How about the Rutgers kid?  You know, the one without any knees?  What's his chances?

Geez.

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19 minutes ago, slats said:

Pass rush is the key, IMHO. 

Last year, Leonard Williams had 5 sacks and 20 QB hits, Anderson had 7 sacks and 16 QB hits, while McClendon, Pennel, and Shepherd combined for 0 sacks and 7 QB hits (Shepherd had five of those, fwiw). Those three guys are now gonna primarily be replaced by Quinnen Williams, who had the top interior pass rushing grade in college last season, IIRC. That alone should be a major improvement. Copeland had 5 sacks and 14 QB hits, and Luvu added 3 sacks and 11 QB hits so mixing Polite in there, again, should be an improvement. 

Jets should be able to get to the QB with just four rushers regularly this season, and with a combination of Polite, Copeland, and/or Luvu on the field at the same time, they'll be able to disguise where that fourth rusher is coming from. 

And that's critical because the CB position is definitely questionable on the Jets. 

and they might even coordinate their pass D coverages with their rush.  Pepper said they never did that and I find that amazing

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lol no we're not. 

We're going to have the # 1 run defense but our pass defense is going to be outside the Top 20.  Who do we have that scares anybody on passing downs?  If Polite ends up a special player right away, that's your only shot at being even an average pass defense. 

And Gregg Williams hasn't led a top 10 defense since the Rams in 2014.  So don't count on him being the reason we get to that point.  Trumaine Johnson and Leonard Williams will play better under him than they did under Bowles/Kacy Rodgers, but that's not enough to really move the needle that far.  Johnson needs a pass rush to be successful as a # 2 corner, let alone as a # 1. 

 

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2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

So we’re 11 right now? Meh, not bad.

 

LOL, that one nearly caused a spit take!

 

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Our defense is ALWAYS “1 spot away.” You’re only as strong as your weakest link. Which, happens to be as you said CB.

So yeah. You are correct. I just don’t see Mac trading away picks for corners that are over 28, when we already have a high priced one.

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Only one CB from being a top ten defense after spending first round picks on defense in four of the last five years (including the best player in the draft in the top six every other year for a total of three times) and handing out huge deals to a cornerback and a linebacker and significant deals to a defensive lineman and another linebacker in free agency the last two years.
Not bad.


This

It sounds even better with the Wilkerson/Richardson/ Couples the years before that.


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1 hour ago, jack48 said:

and they might even coordinate their pass D coverages with their rush.  Pepper said they never did that and I find that amazing

You know they didn't because QBs just threw to wide open check valves when we blitzed from 10 yards away. It was ridiculous. 

If you watch the Patriots play, even with some less than athletic defenders, they coordinate their blitzes very well with checking quick outlet valves like 1st & 2nd looks. 

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Without a pass rush to either sack or way more often force a QB to throw before he would like, DBs don't matter. But the Jets' franchise, front office  and some of their fans childlike belief that DBs are anything more than fungible overhead is not only  fascinating but against everything sensible people know about the NFL in 2019. Either you make the QB dump it off before 2.8 seconds, or you die. Once you get past that point, receivers are going to get open.  And after that a secondary comprised John Goodman, Melissa McCarthy, Stephen Hawking and Ozzy Osbourne are no worse than who ever is your DBs once the play breaks down.The rules as enforced mean you're barely allowed to play bump and run. Oh, let's go get ANOTHER Trumaine Johnson. GREAT.

Will say Gregg Williams not being Kacey Rodgers nor Todd Bowles is a massive improvement. 

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I actually agree with the OP here.  The Jets have taken a lot of low round/FA flyers on CBS, and the only ones that look decent are Trumaine and Roberts.  If a Rhodes or Harris freed up, using cap space for them would make sense.  If I am Mac I am thinking about that to save my job.  I would not worry about give the likes of Jones, Clark, Nickerson, Robinson a chance.  Switch one of them out.  

But on the flip side, given Cashman and Hewitt I think Lee could go, as could McClendon, who was never really a fit for this defense anyway.  

I would add another real WR and OG/C to that list too.  Then we will be talking.  

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2 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

That's not fair.

He has a knee. 

We used a draft pick on him and passed over Harmon.  Just stupid. 

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1 minute ago, varjet said:

We used a draft pick on him and passed over Harmon.  Just stupid. 

Simply cannot imagine anyone else was going to draft a guy who played 5 games over the last 2 seasons and is fully expecting he will be on the PUP list all of 2019 

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2 hours ago, peebag said:

How about the Rutgers kid?  You know, the one without any knees?  What's his chances?

It would be funny as sh*t if Austin ended up a starting CB for the Jets some day. Drag out these posts. Odds aren't good but eventually you hit on these injured player draft deals. I mean it's the 6th freaking round.

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol no we're not. 

We're going to have the # 1 run defense but our pass defense is going to be outside the Top 20.  Who do we have that scares anybody on passing downs?  If Polite ends up a special player right away, that's your only shot at being even an average pass defense. 

And Gregg Williams hasn't led a top 10 defense since the Rams in 2014.  So don't count on him being the reason we get to that point.  Trumaine Johnson and Leonard Williams will play better under him than they did under Bowles/Kacy Rodgers, but that's not enough to really move the needle that far.  Johnson needs a pass rush to be successful as a # 2 corner, let alone as a # 1. 

 

If we have a number 1 defense next year and a pass defense outside the top 20 we will still finish under the top 15 in total defense. The saints defense last year gave up the second least amount of rushing yards last year (1283) but got torched in pass defense giving up the third most yards. They finished 14 overall in defense and was a play away from the Superbowl. 

As long as you have a franchise quarterback leading your team your defense needs to be somewhere around the better half in the league. 

I agree we don;t have anyone scaring you on passing downs as an elite pass rushers, but working on the defensive line and bringing in guys like Mosley to pair with Williamson/Adams will certainly move the needle in the right direction. 

Last year as a defense, we gave the 9th in the league on letting teams convert a first down while giving up the 7th most rushing yards. Being better against the run will tremendously reduce the amount of times teams convert a first down on us.  

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I know a corner not doing a lot #24..

Shall I call his money pit and see if he’s free?

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13 minutes ago, Rsherman28 said:

If we have a number 1 defense next year and a pass defense outside the top 20 we will still finish under the top 15 in total defense. The saints defense last year gave up the second least amount of rushing yards last year (1283) but got torched in pass defense giving up the third most yards. They finished 14 overall in defense and was a play away from the Superbowl. 

As long as you have a franchise quarterback leading your team your defense needs to be somewhere around the better half in the league. 

I agree we don;t have anyone scaring you on passing downs as an elite pass rushers, but working on the defensive line and bringing in guys like Mosley to pair with Williamson/Adams will certainly move the needle in the right direction. 

Last year as a defense, we gave the 9th in the league on letting teams convert a first down while giving up the 7th most rushing yards. Being better against the run will tremendously reduce the amount of times teams convert a first down on us.   

 

# 1 run defense does not guarantee a top 15 finish at all.  Not when teams are setting passing records all the time.  Plus, teams will know not to run on us, and will reduce the number of carries they attempt. 

Forcing offenses to be "one dimensional" only works if that dimension you allow them to have is the run game.  Without a consistent pass rush, QB's will shred our slow defense apart.

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