Q. Williams vs Allen: quote from SNY article

[CTJetsFan]

I don't want to stir up the Q. Williams vs Allen debate again, but I did do a double take on a comment at the end of the article and thought it was worth throwing out there for discussion:

Another evaluator was also asked if the Jets made a mistake passing on Kentucky edge rusher Josh Allen -- who would have filled an immediate need -- instead of taking Williams. 

"You take the best player on the board in the draft because 'blue' players are so hard to find," an evaluator said, "but if you take the Jets' defense and take their four best players, three of them play the position that just got drafted with the third pick. You've got Leonard Williams, you just paid Henry Anderson and then last year you used a third-round pick on Nathan Shepherd, who is pretty good. What is going on here?"

[#27TheDominator]

Imagine how good Quinnen Williams seems to a guy that thinks Nathan Shepherd is pretty good!

[Beerfish]

Just now, CTJetsFan said:

I don't want to stir up the Q. Williams vs Allen debate again, but I did do a double take on a comment at the end of the article and thought it was worth throwing out there for discussion:

Another evaluator was also asked if the Jets made a mistake passing on Kentucky edge rusher Josh Allen -- who would have filled an immediate need -- instead of taking Williams. 

"You take the best player on the board in the draft because 'blue' players are so hard to find," an evaluator said, "but if you take the Jets' defense and take their four best players, three of them play the position that just got drafted with the third pick. You've got Leonard Williams, you just paid Henry Anderson and then last year you used a third-round pick on Nathan Shepherd, who is pretty good. What is going on here?"

Gee that is almost like takeing Leo Williams when you have mo wilk and shel rich.

Which of our guys are going to be playing olb by mid season i wonder?  Well none, but one of them will be a friggin space eating nose tackle.  Most likely the new guy.  Just stand in the middle and take up space and double teams.

[CTJetsFan]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Gee that is almost like takeing Leo Williams when you have mo wilk and shel rich.

Which of our guys are going to be playing olb by mid season i wonder?  Well none, but one of them will be a friggin space eating nose tackle.  Most likely the new guy.  Just stand in the middle and take up space and double teams.

May make for a decent 4 man front though.....

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, CTJetsFan said:

May make for a decent 4 man front though.....

That is our big hope, but then we have just drafted an edge rusher probably suited to a 3-4 olb.

That is the big issue with mac, he has no viable plan.

[Villain The Foe]

12 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

I don't want to stir up the Q. Williams vs Allen debate again, but I did do a double take on a comment at the end of the article and thought it was worth throwing out there for discussion:

Another evaluator was also asked if the Jets made a mistake passing on Kentucky edge rusher Josh Allen -- who would have filled an immediate need -- instead of taking Williams. 

"You take the best player on the board in the draft because 'blue' players are so hard to find," an evaluator said, "but if you take the Jets' defense and take their four best players, three of them play the position that just got drafted with the third pick. You've got Leonard Williams, you just paid Henry Anderson and then last year you used a third-round pick on Nathan Shepherd, who is pretty good. What is going on here?"

I said this all off season as my reasoning to trade down. I particularly didnt like Allen as a huge prospect, but Allen played a position that we needed. If the Jets liked Polite more, then we should have traded down instead of drafting Q. 

 

It's the f'ing Jets. 

[Scoop24]

Cool story

[nico002]

Williams + Polite >>>>>>> Allen + 3rd round DT

[CTJetsFan]

12 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

That is our big hope, but then we have just drafted an edge rusher probably suited to a 3-4 olb.

That is the big issue with mac, he has no viable plan.

You know teams don't stay in base defenses like in the days of old. Since G. Williams is a 4-3 guy, I'm sure the split will be close to 50-50 with some 4-2 and maybe 2 man fronts with 5 LBers (depending on opponent). Q. Williams can supposedly play anywhere in the 3-4 or the 4-3. Polite right now seems to best suited for the 3-4. At least there are schemes where we know both can be on the field at the same time.

[Jetmech]

Shepherd is pretty good?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mrcoops]

1 minute ago, Jetmech said:

Shepherd is pretty good?

Yeah, not sure what games that guy has been watching.

Grampa Shepherd did nothing at all last year.

[jetstream23]

I wanted Josh Allen but simply because I thought he was "close enough" in grade to QW but played a position of need.  It was a better fit for our roster.  But that said, I have no issue with QW.  I saw the Lions draft WR in the 1st round year after year.  The 3rd or 4th one was the one they got right in Calvin Johnson (Megatron).

If QW turns out to be a better version of Leo Williams then we're set.  Our second level of the Defense is finally looking decent with guys like Mosely, Jenkins, Williamson and the addition of Polite.  Lee, Hewitt, Copeland and Luvu are good depth.  The LB corps isn't an eyesore anymore.  It really was with Mauldin and prior to Williamson arriving.

The real work left to do on D is at CB.  That's the only concern at this point, and given the top heaviness of this Draft on Defense we couldn't go Offense.  The Jets wanted to trade down but they weren't discounting the #3 pick.  So I'm fine with QW pick.  And, if I'm being honest with myself about my desire for Josh Allen then there's a reason he slid to #7.  The Raiders wanted an Edge rusher and passed on him.  The Buccs went Defense and passed on him.  The Giants passed on him.  Only time will tell but we probably got one of the 2 best players in the Draft at #3.

[Dcat]

15 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

That is our big hope, but then we have just drafted an edge rusher probably suited to a 3-4 olb.

That is the big issue with mac, he has no viable plan.

Scrambled eggs. 

Keystone Kops.

[jetscrazey]

32 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

I don't want to stir up the Q. Williams vs Allen debate again, but I did do a double take on a comment at the end of the article and thought it was worth throwing out there for discussion:

Another evaluator was also asked if the Jets made a mistake passing on Kentucky edge rusher Josh Allen -- who would have filled an immediate need -- instead of taking Williams. 

"You take the best player on the board in the draft because 'blue' players are so hard to find," an evaluator said, "but if you take the Jets' defense and take their four best players, three of them play the position that just got drafted with the third pick. You've got Leonard Williams, you just paid Henry Anderson and then last year you used a third-round pick on Nathan Shepherd, who is pretty good. What is going on here?"

He lost me at Nathan Shepard.

[Bleedin Green]

25 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Williams + Polite >>>>>>> Allen + 3rd round DT

Is it too difficult to comprehend the idea of Maccagnan not being so mind-numbingly stupid as to continue to hammer away repeatedly at the same non-premium position that's already filled, while ignoring the same holes for 5+ years?

Because the only way this highly questionable defense works in the slightest is based on the assumption that he's immeasurably incompetent in every imaginable way.

[cant wait]

12 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I wanted Josh Allen but simply because I thought he was "close enough" in grade to QW but played a position of need.  It was a better fit for our roster.  But that said, I have no issue with QW.  I saw the Lions draft WR in the 1st round year after year.  The 3rd or 4th one was the one they got right in Calvin Johnson (Megatron).

If QW turns out to be a better version of Leo Williams then we're set.  Our second level of the Defense is finally looking decent with guys like Mosely, Jenkins, Williamson and the addition of Polite.  Lee, Hewitt, Copeland and Luvu are good depth.  The LB corps isn't an eyesore anymore.  It really was with Mauldin and prior to Williamson arriving.

The real work left to do on D is at CB.  That's the only concern at this point, and given the top heaviness of this Draft on Defense we couldn't go Offense.  The Jets wanted to trade down but they weren't discounting the #3 pick.  So I'm fine with QW pick.  And, if I'm being honest with myself about my desire for Josh Allen then there's a reason he slid to #7.  The Raiders wanted an Edge rusher and passed on him.  The Buccs went Defense and passed on him.  The Giants passed on him.  Only time will tell but we probably got one of the 2 best players in the Draft at #3.

this team is still thin at edge rusher even if polite is a good player. jenkins is awful 

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, nico002 said:

Williams + Polite >>>>>>> Allen + 3rd round DT

You think?  I think plenty of teams would prefer Allen and Dre'mont Jones. 

More importantly, why the **** would we be picking a 3rd round DT?  We have a metric sh*tton of DTs as it is.  We draft two in the top 10 every four years.  Why wouldn't we fill a different position of need like WR (McLaurin, Boykin) CB (Long, Layne), or C (McGovern, Dieter and Nate Davis all had some consideration for C).  They also could have drafted a T, even just taking Edoga and saving the picks from the trade up, or a TE (either the Gronk/Nelson hybrid, Oliver or Sternberger) or whatever position was strongest - there were a bunch of good RBs picked around that slot, 

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

He lost me at Nathan Shepard.

To be fair, that was the last sentence and 3 of the teams top players do play that position.  

[UnknownJetFan]

32 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Gee that is almost like takeing Leo Williams when you have mo wilk and shel rich.

Which of our guys are going to be playing olb by mid season i wonder?  Well none, but one of them will be a friggin space eating nose tackle.  Most likely the new guy.  Just stand in the middle and take up space and double teams.

I kind of feel like now I'd rather have QW and Polite than Allen and who knows who(from a D point of view). QW will push the pocket constantly up the middle freeing up Polite, Leo, Anderson, etc. none of which will be double teamed since QW will probably require double teams more often than not.

Now on the Flip side, chances are we take Allen and in the top of the 3rd we probably get a possible starting Center. This would also have been a good scenario, but we would not have had a very good presence in the middle of our Dline which would have caused the problems of teams running much more effectively on us wearing down the D as well as passing better if Allen couldn't get constant pressure off the end without much pass rush up the middle.  

Both cases above would be good, so we'll roll with what we do take in the former statement I made and see if we can improve at center via signing or trade prior to week 1 and if it is not a long term solution maybe next years number 1 as McShay is already mocking us down for we pick the top Center in the 2020 draft. 

[CTJetsFan]

13 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

He lost me at Nathan Shepard.

That's what made me do the double take and post the article. The fact that someone brought up his name at all when discussing our dline was stunning..

[UnknownJetFan]

5 minutes ago, cant wait said:

this team is still thin at edge rusher even if polite is a good player. jenkins is awful 

Actually Jenkins was decent at Edge rushing with 7 sacks and many pressures in a joke of a D we have been playing. With DWilliams D Jenkins can probably be even more of a pass rushing threat.

[UnknownJetFan]

1 minute ago, CTJetsFan said:

That's what made me do the double take and post the article. The fact that someone brought up his name at all when discussing our dline at all was stunning..

For the guy to say Shepard was good right there makes the writer lose all credibility.  Though, again Shepard may be better in DWilliams D at least as a rotational player since Anderson will start.

[CTJetsFan]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You think?  I think plenty of teams would prefer Allen and Dre'mont Jones. 

More importantly, why the **** would be picking a 3rd round DT?  We have a metric sh*tton of DTs as it is.  We draft two in the top 10 every four years.  Why wouldn't we fill a different position of need like WR (McLaurin, Boykin) CB (Long, Layne), or C (McGovern, Dieter and Nate Davis all had some consideration for C).  They also could have drafted a T, even just taking Edoga and saving the picks from the trade up, or a TE (either the Gronk/Nelson hybrid, Oliver or Steinberger) or whatever position was strongest - there were a bunch of good RBs picked around that slot, 

Good point. There would have been no justifiable reason to draft another DT after pick 3 had we not drafted Q.

[GreenFish]

This is how I felt when we drafted Darnold. I was like wait a minute. We already have Teddy and McCown. What’s going on here? 

Nathan Shep is not one of our better players. Anderson and Leo are one of our better D players though. 

The main argument not to take Q was that there were edge guys at similar valuations available. 

[Patriot Killa]

53 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

then last year you used a third-round pick on Nathan Shepherd, who is pretty good. What is going on here?"

Oh boy

[jetstream23]

13 minutes ago, cant wait said:

this team is still thin at edge rusher even if polite is a good player. jenkins is awful 

I agree that it still needs some work but it's competent.  Jenkins had 8 sacks last year.  Copeland is decent and Polite will be a 3rd down demon.  I think we'll survive at Edge, particularly with those guys playing behind Leo, Henry Anderson and Q. Williams.  We're going to have at least 2 or 3 of our best Front 7 guys (Leo, Mosely, QW, Anderson, Polite, etc.) getting one-on-one situations.  OLines (even with help from a TE or RB) can't double team everyone.

We added two potential studs in the Front 7 with Mosely and QW.  Polite is like a lottery ticket.  If he turns out be good and Gregg Williams uses these guys correctly then that's a scary group.

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

This is how I felt when we drafted Darnold. I was like wait a minute. We already have Teddy and McCown. What’s going on here? 

Nathan Shep is not one of our better players. Anderson and Leo are one of our better D players though. 

The main argument not to take Q was that there were edge guys at similar valuations available. 

It is poorly worded, but I thought he was counting Quinnen Williams in the 3 of our best players conversation, and that Shepherd was just a throw in as a guy that isn't a complete zero.  I thought he was saying Williams, Williams, Anderson Adams.  I am probably giving the writer too much credit. 

[ZachEY]

54 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Which of our guys are going to be playing olb by mid season i wonder?  Well none, but one of them will be a friggin space eating nose tackle.  Most likely the new guy.  Just stand in the middle and take up space and double teams.

Which, is a 4th round pick's job.

[GreenFish]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It is poorly worded, but I thought he was counting Quinnen Williams in the 3 of our best players conversation, and that Shepherd was just a throw in as a guy that isn't a complete zero.  I thought he was saying Williams, Williams, Anderson Adams.  I am probably giving the writer too much credit. 

Oh. You’re likely right. lol. That makes a lot more sense than saying Shep is one of the better players on D.

[F00tballGuy69]

The fact that he said Shepard is "pretty good" discounts the entire quote.  He was awful last year.  Anyone who says he was "pretty good" did not watch a snap of Jets football last season.  

[CTJetsFan]

17 minutes ago, F00tballGuy69 said:

The fact that he said Shepard is "pretty good" discounts the entire quote.  He was awful last year.  Anyone who says he was "pretty good" did not watch a snap of Jets football last season.  

I don't recall seeing him do much that would have classified him as "pretty good". Wonder if the quoted "evaluator" was talking about his own pre-draft evaluation notes on Shepherd.

[Augustiniak]

21 minutes ago, F00tballGuy69 said:

The fact that he said Shepard is "pretty good" discounts the entire quote.  He was awful last year.  Anyone who says he was "pretty good" did not watch a snap of Jets football last season.  

the whole point of the blurb was to blast the jets for overloading on one position.  but just having leo and anderson wasn't enough of an argument so they had to say that sheppard was good to make it look like Q was redundant.  

[David Harris]

The Jets post draft have the same holes as the jets pre draft. Polite does help the pass rush a bit. But still underasset at edge, CB, O line.

I’ve been Mac’s biggest supporter but I’m off the wagon this week.  I’m just picturing Leonard Williams walking away and it’s just a broken record with assets just disappearing into the mist after 4-5 years and then new resources pouring into the same spots.

Thrilled to have a QB for once so that changes a lot. But even so this team feels like a collection of pieces rather than a set- having a QB is the first step to change that so there is hope.

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

Williams + Polite >>>>>>> Allen + 3rd round DT

Low-key agree with this.

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

More importantly, why the **** would be picking a 3rd round DT?

What if I told you that said 3rd round DT was a 49-year-old Canadian who has extensive box-making experience?