Q. Williams vs Allen: quote from SNY article

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

That is our big hope, but then we have just drafted an edge rusher probably suited to a 3-4 olb.

That is the big issue with mac, he has no viable plan.

And he cannot adopt, or too stubborn too. I really believe this is his last yr. I don’t think he will ever care to re-build the OL. That requires over paying them in FA, like everyone else does. Reaching for them in draft, not just waiting years for bpa, again like everyone else does. He won’t do it. Mac Will only look for the cheap OL deals, and won’t abandon his obsessiveness with bpa. I believe Gase  will make his case to the Johnsons after this season. He only has to convince them protecting Sam Darnold with a very solid O is best thing for jets, and will make darnold the great marketable star qb they always wanted. You want to try to keep your rookie deal qb happy. Especially if Being from California, we don’t want him wanting to run back home and try to divorce the jets.. mac is not the one.. 

[Peace Frog]

Again with trade back?!?

There was no trade back worthy from a value standpoint. 

I guess we should have either (i) forced someone to trade with us for full value or (ii) taken less than full value. 

Because that’s how it works. 

Criminy. 

[Saul Goodman]

Forget Allen vs. Williams. The Jets in general have no discernible team-building strategy.

We don’t seem to have the talent on offense to score enough points to be an above average team (though Gase could work some magic here).

Worse, Darnold could realistically get injured behind the offensive line that Maccagnan has assembled. 

Ponder this: if you were sitting in a bar, talking football with a stranger and they asked what the Jets overall strategy/direction as a franchise is, how would you answer that? For me, it’s a “IDK...we hope Darnold is a top-10 QB soon (?)” 

[GREENBEAN]

Yeah, not sure what games that guy has been watching.
Grampa Shepherd did nothing at all last year.

So his career is over then?


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[Maxman]

I sure hope Nathan Shepherd might be good someday. But there is no way you can make that statement right now.

[mrcoops]

5 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

So his career is over then?


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Not what I said.

Not a good start to his career, and he is not "pretty good". Last year he was "pretty bad".

[Creepy Lurker]

 

1 hour ago, David Harris said:

The Jets post draft have the same holes as the jets pre draft. Polite does help the pass rush a bit. But still underasset at edge, CB, O line.

I’ve been Mac’s biggest supporter but I’m off the wagon this week.  I’m just picturing Leonard Williams walking away and it’s just a broken record with assets just disappearing into the mist after 4-5 years and then new resources pouring into the same spots.

Thrilled to have a QB for once so that changes a lot. But even so this team feels like a collection of pieces rather than a set- having a QB is the first step to change that so there is hope.

Welcome to the dark side. Mwahahahahahahha!!!!!!

[Creepy Lurker]

54 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Forget Allen vs. Williams. The Jets in general have no discernible team-building strategy.

We don’t seem to have the talent on offense to score enough points to be an above average team (though Gase could work some magic here).

Worse, Darnold could realistically get injured behind the offensive line that Maccagnan has assembled. 

Ponder this: if you were sitting in a bar, talking football with a stranger and they asked what the Jets overall strategy/direction as a franchise is, how would you answer that? For me, it’s a “IDK...we hope Darnold is a top-10 QB soon (?)” 

This “strategy” to just gamble and pray that your QB magically becomes a superstar without a basic investment in the OL to protect him is ridiculous. That’s the plan. Just cross our fingers and bank on Sam becoming the next Brady or Manning but without a strong supporting cast due to poor drafting and positional prioritization.

That is as irresponsible as me saying “I’m not going to work anymore and invest what little money I have, into lotto tickets. Hopefully I hit big due to luck, otherwise I am screwed. 

I....hate.....this......pathetic GM. He has done WAY more damage than Idzik because he has taken more than 2 years. Idzik was quick and gone. Mac’s disastrous performance has been spread out over a 5th year now. Even if he hasn’t been horrible this offseason, it’s still an atrocious body of work. (He may have been horrible this offseason if he turned down good/decent trade offers in the draft despite our need to but we don’t know.)

[section314]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

What if I told you that said 3rd round DT was a 49-year-old Canadian who has extensive box-making experience?

Beerfish??

[section314]

Forget Josh Allen vs Q. The Jets will rue the day they passed on Ed Oliver.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I said this all off season as my reasoning to trade down. I particularly didnt like Allen as a huge prospect, but Allen played a position that we needed. If the Jets liked Polite more, then we should have traded down instead of drafting Q. 

 

It's the f'ing Jets. 

I think we can all abandon the "shoulda traded down" criticism.  Great idea, but the way it played out it seems rather obvious no one wanted to trade up that badly.

Just look at the Redskins, bordeline desperate to get Haskins, and sat still, and got him.

It was just that kind of draft.

[redlichtie]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I wanted Josh Allen but simply because I thought he was "close enough" in grade to QW but played a position of need.  It was a better fit for our roster.  But that said, I have no issue with QW.  I saw the Lions draft WR in the 1st round year after year.  The 3rd or 4th one was the one they got right in Calvin Johnson (Megatron).

If QW turns out to be a better version of Leo Williams then we're set.  Our second level of the Defense is finally looking decent with guys like Mosely, Jenkins, Williamson and the addition of Polite.  Lee, Hewitt, Copeland and Luvu are good depth.  The LB corps isn't an eyesore anymore.  It really was with Mauldin and prior to Williamson arriving.

The real work left to do on D is at CB.  That's the only concern at this point, and given the top heaviness of this Draft on Defense we couldn't go Offense.  The Jets wanted to trade down but they weren't discounting the #3 pick.  So I'm fine with QW pick.  And, if I'm being honest with myself about my desire for Josh Allen then there's a reason he slid to #7.  The Raiders wanted an Edge rusher and passed on him.  The Buccs went Defense and passed on him.  The Giants passed on him.  Only time will tell but we probably got one of the 2 best players in the Draft at #3.

Good post...and Polite, if head is screwed on, is at least as good, maybe better, than Alen off the edge.

[jack48]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

That is our big hope, but then we have just drafted an edge rusher probably suited to a 3-4 olb.

That is the big issue with mac, he has no viable plan.

Macc dies not dictate our plan. He does not formulate strategy,  He is not some Xs and Os genius

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

May make for a decent 4 man front though.....

What do we do with all of those LB's though?  A 4-man front means you're sitting Avery Williamson, which is not at all ideal.  And then you also have to make Polite into a 4-3 DE.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, nico002 said:

Williams + Polite >>>>>>> Allen + 3rd round DT

Why would we take a DT in the 3rd round in that hypothetical scenario?

How about Allen + one of the following?

• G Michael Deiter
• WR Hakeem Butler
• WR Terry McLaurin
• G Nate Davis
• G Connor McGovern
• T Yodny Cajuste

My preference would have been Ed Oliver + Chase Winovich/Polite.  

[Jetsfan80]

27 minutes ago, jack48 said:

Macc does not dictate our plan. He does not formulate strategy,  He is not some Xs and Os genius

Of course not, because that's not what GM's do.  What exactly is your point here?

[GREENBEAN]

Not what I said.
Not a good start to his career, and he is not "pretty good". Last year he was "pretty bad".

Gotcha. Good thing I checked huh?


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[T0mShane]

It’s very simple FREINDS WHAT you do is you play Quinnen at the five and then you put Leonard at the same spot and you Put Anderson at the three and you put Nathan Shepherd on hold and bam—-here’s the trick—-you let Leonard Williams walk as a free agent and that’s how you make all these players fit. It’s genious when u think about it keep them #fresh

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Why would we take a DT in the 3rd round in that hypothetical scenario?

How about Allen + one of the following?

• G Michael Deiter
• WR Hakeem Butler
• WR Terry McLaurin
• G Nate Davis
• G Connor McGovern
• T Yodny Cajuste

My preference would have been Ed Oliver + Chase Winovich/Polite.  

Whut?

Sounds like it’s time for your Thorazine Big Gulp. 

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Beerfish??

Don;t look at me.  49 is too young for me.  Talk to Paradis or Canadianjetsfan

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Whut?

Sounds like it’s time for your Thorazine Big Gulp. 

What was wrong with what I stated?

[Peace Frog]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

What was wrong with what I stated?

Schizophrenia or multiple personality/dissociative disorder.

Read what you wrote.  

[long suffering jets fan]

4 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

You know teams don't stay in base defenses like in the days of old. Since G. Williams is a 4-3 guy, I'm sure the split will be close to 50-50 with some 4-2 and maybe 2 man fronts with 5 LBers (depending on opponent). Q. Williams can supposedly play anywhere in the 3-4 or the 4-3. Polite right now seems to best suited for the 3-4. At least there are schemes where we know both can be on the field at the same time.

Some people seem to miss this fact.  

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Schizophrenia or multiple personality/dissociative disorder.

Read what you wrote.  

I did.  Again, what was wrong with it?

[Il Mostro]

5 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

I don't want to stir up the Q. Williams vs Allen debate again...

Yeah, you did.  

[Ghost]

4 hours ago, Jetmech said:

Shepherd is pretty good?


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Give him time. He’s only like 28 going into his 2nd season. 

[CTJetsFan]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What do we do with all of those LB's though?  A 4-man front means you're sitting Avery Williamson, which is not at all ideal.  And then you also have to make Polite into a 4-3 DE.  

As I said in another post, we might be in a 4-3 half the time and a 3-4 the other half. Not uncommon these days based on opponent 's strengths and tendencies

[CTJetsFan]

7 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Give him time. He’s only like 28 going into his 2nd season. 

Will be 26 in October

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/4076951/nathan-shepherd

[CTJetsFan]

11 minutes ago, Il Mostro said:

Yeah, you did.  

I really didn't. It was about the Shepherd quote

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

As I said in another post, we might be in a 4-3 half the time and a 3-4 the other half. Not uncommon these days based on opponent 's strengths and tendencies

I get it.  Everyone who has been defending the pick has been talking about rotations and multiple fronts. 

But ultimately there's no way around this point:  The only time when we'll see the best personnel on the field at the same time is when we're in a 3-4 look.  And even then, we'll have guys in positions that are not ideal (like Quinnen at NT).  

Gregg Williams isn't going to reinvent the wheel with a talent pool that contains 6 DT's and 3 ILB's.  He has 1-2 pass rushers (Polite, Copeland) and no true DE's.  There's only so much he can do with that.

[Lupz27]

5 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

May make for a decent 4 man front though.....

How?  You have 4 DT’s in that list who can rush the passer from DE from that group?  None.  I mean if Mac is the GM and taking BPA every 1st round odds are of late that player is a DT, the vicious cycle of replacing failed draft picks at the same position will never end with this guy.

Great person hate having to type the negative about his job performance IMO not being up to par, but he makes millions, and like it, or not (it seems these guys don’t like it, but it’s part of the job) it’s a job you will get criticized ALL THE TIME.

[Lupz27]

32 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I get it.  Everyone who has been defending the pick has been talking about rotations and multiple fronts. 

But ultimately there's no way around this point:  The only time when we'll see the best personnel on the field at the same time is when we're in a 3-4 look.  And even then, we'll have guys in positions that are not ideal (like Quinnen at NT).  

Gregg Williams isn't going to reinvent the wheel with a talent pool that contains 6 DT's and 3 ILB's.  He has 1-2 pass rushers (Polite, Copeland) and no true DE's.  There's only so much he can do with that.

The Jets could lose both Q Will, and Leo Will, and it won’t change a thing on the D front, it’s such a joke, yet yay we may have finally got the best DT of the 12 they drafted the last 9 years for ***** sake not to mention 4 in the 1st round.

[CTJetsFan]

43 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I get it.  Everyone who has been defending the pick has been talking about rotations and multiple fronts. 

But ultimately there's no way around this point:  The only time when we'll see the best personnel on the field at the same time is when we're in a 3-4 look.  And even then, we'll have guys in positions that are not ideal (like Quinnen at NT).  

Gregg Williams isn't going to reinvent the wheel with a talent pool that contains 6 DT's and 3 ILB's.  He has 1-2 pass rushers (Polite, Copeland) and no true DE's.  There's only so much he can do with that.

I can see Q as a 5 technique in the 3-4. I believe I read that he put on extra weight last year to play NT @ Bama. Nor sure if Jets have same plan for him

[Jetscode1]

...and yet, our OL still has question marks...who knew?

[Lupz27]

4 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

I can see Q as a 5 technique in the 3-4. I believe I read that he put on extra weight last year to play NT @ Bama. Nor sure if Jets have same plan for him

I’ll take Snacks Harrison everyday, and twice on Sunday to play that position, a former UDFA that Todd Bowles, and Macc thought was not worth a penny yet Mo Wilk was worth 17 million, can’t make this sh*t up..