Q. Williams vs Allen: quote from SNY article

[Lizard King]

What’s frustrating is that the criticism leading up on the player was that they had legitimate questions about his strength leading up very near to the draft. we see now that it was accurate. If you see him in person you realize quickly he is not a big guy as you’d expect an interior lineman to be. You can’t miss on the third pick. 

[Paradis]

17 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

3rd overall pick in the draft vs 3rd round pick. 

That's all the needs to be said.

Why draft guys like Shepherd and Fatukasi if you're going say - screw them, and I'll just keep drafting DTs in the first.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, genot said:

They weren't going to keep both. If not traded, he plays out the year, and is allowed to sign somewhere else. Josh Allen must have been very tempting. leo's future with the team was the main reason why we drafted Q. In my opinion. i could be wrong. i've been wrong before.

Your heart's in the right place, but you're dead wrong on this one. No team plays THAT kind of long game with DT when they already have 4 (and you're ignoring Henry Anderson who we just paid before drafting QW...)

This was simply the case of a GM with no balls and no brains. 

[Lizard King]

6 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Henry Anderson who we just paid before drafting QW...)

This was simply the case of a GM with no balls and no brains. 

I know right? Stupid. Beyond stupid 

[Beerfish]

14 minutes ago, Paradis said:

That's all the needs to be said.

Why draft guys like Shepherd and Fatukasi if you're going say - screw them, and I'll just keep drafting DTs in the first.

The fact that a 2nd year 6th rounder and rookie UDFA out played the 3rd overall pick most of the year seems to have no effect on the pro Q faction.

[Barry McCockinner]

It would be amazing if Douglas could recoup a first round pick in this year's draft for QW. 

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

It would be amazing if Douglas could recoup a first round pick in this year's draft for QW. 

Still haunted by the 'huge package of picks' at the trade deadline offered for Q at the trade deadline that shefter talked about.  Douglas really blew it if that was correct.

[genot]

52 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

A big leap?   He played in 6 games and had 6 solo tackles and 11 total tackles.  I know the bar was low but saying he made a “big leap” is a little comical.  

He missed the first 6 games, correct. Sacks, tackles. Easy to say they all stink, because of the numbers. You can play that all you want. The facts are we finished in the top 10 in  the NFL in team defense, because of the work of the front seven. Mainly our inside defense, which includes, QW, Shepard, etc, etc.

[Anthony Jet]

20 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Still haunted by the 'huge package of picks' at the trade deadline offered for Q at the trade deadline that shefter talked about.  Douglas really blew it if that was correct.

I don’t believe that for a second. If there was an offer there’s no way it included a first 

[genot]

21 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Still haunted by the 'huge package of picks' at the trade deadline offered for Q at the trade deadline that shefter talked about.  Douglas really blew it if that was correct.

If the story is true, Gregg Williams probably said, no way. Oh, yea. what the hell does he know.

[Beerfish]

7 minutes ago, genot said:

If the story is true, Gregg Williams probably said, no way. Oh, yea. what the hell does he know.

Gregg Williams started a 6th rounder and a rookie udfa over Quinnen so I don't think he cares.

[Beerfish]

10 minutes ago, Anthony Jet said:

I don’t believe that for a second. If there was an offer there’s no way it included a first 

"At least one team kept coming at the Jets, refusing to take no for an answer and offering a blockbuster package of picks that it thought New York could not turn down, according to sources. But no matter how many times that team and others called, New York refused to budge on Williams."

A package that the jets could not turn down would most assuredly had a 1st rounder.

[Anthony Jet]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

"At least one team kept coming at the Jets, refusing to take no for an answer and offering a blockbuster package of picks that it thought New York could not turn down, according to sources. But no matter how many times that team and others called, New York refused to budge on Williams."

A package that the jets could not turn down would most assuredly had a 1st rounder.

I’ve seen the quote. Still don’t believe it. 

[Paradis]

I promise i'll stop soon... but the gold i'm mining here is the stuff of legends

 

On 3/28/2019 at 6:15 PM, Philc1 said:

Quinnen Williams will win DROY

 

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Anthony Jet said:

I’ve seen the quote. Still don’t believe it. 

I'm fine with that and if was from some blogger or even a local guy I would put much great stock in it.  But this was Shefter.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Lizard King said:

What’s frustrating is that the criticism leading up on the player was that they had legitimate questions about his strength leading up very near to the draft. we see now that it was accurate. If you see him in person you realize quickly he is not a big guy as you’d expect an interior lineman to be. You can’t miss on the third pick. 

beyond that -  literally everything some of us said was a concern turned out to be damn near crippling. The lack of production outside of last season. The no show in the natty game -- the cupcake schedule.... "he was a beast last year!..." yea, when the other team was down 30.... do you know how simple things get for a DT when you know the other team has to pass the ball 47 times in the second half? 

[Creepy Lurker]

12 minutes ago, Paradis said:

beyond that -  literally everything some of us said was a concern turned out to be damn near crippling. The lack of production outside of last season. The no show in the natty game -- the cupcake schedule.... "he was a beast last year!..." yea, when the other team was down 30.... do you know how simple things get for a DT when you know the other team has to pass the ball 47 times in the second half? 

These “concerns” have the making of a massive bust. Those are the exact red flags that you want to avoid. How was he a safe pick?

[PepPep]

On 5/3/2019 at 11:31 AM, CTJetsFan said:

I don't want to stir up the Q. Williams vs Allen debate again, but I did do a double take on a comment at the end of the article and thought it was worth throwing out there for discussion:

Another evaluator was also asked if the Jets made a mistake passing on Kentucky edge rusher Josh Allen -- who would have filled an immediate need -- instead of taking Williams. 

"You take the best player on the board in the draft because 'blue' players are so hard to find," an evaluator said, "but if you take the Jets' defense and take their four best players, three of them play the position that just got drafted with the third pick. You've got Leonard Williams, you just paid Henry Anderson and then last year you used a third-round pick on Nathan Shepherd, who is pretty good. What is going on here?"

Just to play devil's advocate here...

1. The Jets may have been planning to trade or let Leo walk the whole time. In fact, they did and I doubt it was b/c they drafted QW.

2. Nathan Shepherd was going to be serving a suspension and was not very good last year. People were ready to write him off as a bust until this season.

3. Fatukasi and the UDFAs who played so well this season were never expected to do so. This was a complete surprise to most.

4. McLendon is as solid as it gets but he is long in the tooth and they need to find a replacement soon.

 

Although I did not dislike the QW pick and I still think he can be really good. I also really wanted them to draft Allen.  

[Paradis]

9 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

These “concerns” have the making of a massive bust. Those are the exact red flags that you want to avoid. How was he a safe pick?

Because I wasn’t the GM

[Philc1]

On 5/3/2019 at 2:50 PM, Jetmech said:

Shepherd is pretty good?


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He had a decent season.  He sucked at the time that quote would have supposedly been taken

[Philc1]

37 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I promise i'll stop soon... but the gold i'm mining here is the stuff of legends

 

 

Are you more bitter about Baker or Mariota stinking?

[Paradis]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Are you more bitter about Baker or Mariota stinking?

that's the like 5th time you've brought this up - and again, for the last time; you have me confused with someone else. Especially Mariota who I was super critical of

Unless you have a diagnosed learning disorder, stfu

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Your heart's in the right place, but you're dead wrong on this one. No team plays THAT kind of long game with DT when they already have 4 (and you're ignoring Henry Anderson who we just paid before drafting QW...)

This was simply the case of a GM with no balls and no brains. 

Yeah baby! Me, on the Quinnen pick:

 

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

that's the like 5th time you've brought this up - and again, for the last time; you have me confused with someone else. Especially Mariota who I was super critical of

Unless you have a diagnosed learning disorder, stfu

Sorry dude I keep triggering you.  Maybe Baker won’t be a bottom 2 nfl qb next season

[Jetmech]

He had a decent season.  He sucked at the time that quote would have supposedly been taken

He did have a decent season considering everything that went on with him last season. After I heard about his back problems I thought he was done.


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[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Jetmech said:

 

He did have a decent season considering everything that went on with him last season. After I heard about his back problems I thought he was done.


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Maybe the steroids that got him the suspension helped?

[Jetmech]

Maybe the steroids that got him the suspension helped?

It’s possible, remains to be seen next season.


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[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Still haunted by the 'huge package of picks' at the trade deadline offered for Q at the trade deadline that shefter talked about.  Douglas really blew it if that was correct.

What makes this hard to believe is that if a team was offering up a bunch of picks for Quinnen at the deadline, it stands to reason that this team offered a similar deal for him during the draft process and we didn’t hear a peep about that. 

[Paradis]

34 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Sorry dude I keep triggering you.  Maybe Baker won’t be a bottom 2 nfl qb next season

Trigger away. As long as you keep providing me with the content you see in my signature, have at ‘er pal 

[Beerfish]

26 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What makes this hard to believe is that if a team was offering up a bunch of picks for Quinnen at the deadline, it stands to reason that this team offered a similar deal for him during the draft process and we didn’t hear a peep about that. 

They could have had bigger priorities at the draft.  They may have thought they had good enough DTs at the draft.

[CTJetsFan]

Crazy that this thread I started in May has resurfaced.

The person who made the quote in the article was pretty prophetic re: Shepherd.

Makes me wonder if Macc felt the same way Joe D apparently did about Leo - that we weren't keeping him after the 2019 season. 

Regardless of how Q turns out, using 4 picks in 2 drafts on DTs (including pick we gave up in trade for Anderson) is craziness.

[Jetscode1]

Macc really tried to play safe and drafted whoever was on Kiper's or McShay (substitute your favorite mock draft person).  Especially in round 1.  Dude had zero idea how to properly construct a roster.  DL ad nausea.  I'm hoping JD favors big ugly OL and some fukking skill players.  The amount of talented WR who have come out in recent years and we have not drafted any of them.  Pure garbage GM.

[Lizard King]

43 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What makes this hard to believe is that if a team was offering up a bunch of picks for Quinnen at the deadline, it stands to reason that this team offered a similar deal for him during the draft process and we didn’t hear a peep about that. 

Yeah but our front office is totally inept (really ownership since FO is a constant game of musical chairs)... therefore they literally could have been offered Trent Williams and Mac, Johnson & Co wouldn’t have been any wiser 

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Trigger away. As long as you keep providing me with the content you see in my signature, have at ‘er pal 

I don’t care what I said to upset you I own your mind and obviously live there.  Maybe in some alternate universe Jonah has a functioning shoulder and Baker has a functioning brain

[BurnleyJet]

12 hours ago, genot said:

 

We had the 7th ranked defense in the league. You really think Burgess and hewitt are that good. Their success is directly tied to the work that our DT's put in. Including QW.

I think that Williams contribution was a rotational player, in the D-line. He had very little impact and wasn’t a starter. Not at all what I’d expect from the “best player in the Draft”.

Meanwhile:-

Josh Allen, the pick we should  have had 44 tackles, 10.5 Sacks, 2 FF, we needed an Edge, we drafted a run stuffing D.T.

Bosa, moot but still 47 tackles 9 Sacks 1 Int. young stud D.E.

Ed Oliver finished with 43 tackles, 5 sacks and is noticeably improving game by game. He was in our backfield all day Week 17.

Quinnen Williams 28 tackles 2.5 sacks. Clearly the runt of the litter, and over drafted. Please file under Leonard Williams, Sheldon Richardson, Quentin Coples, Mo Wilkerson.

Are we learning yet..