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PFF Makes the Case for Leo

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2 hours ago, section314 said:

What ever happened to that nut job? Did he get lifetime ban?

Last I heard he was still living in his parents basement but that was a few years ago.

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27 minutes ago, Larz said:

Jets fans lol

he came out of the game on third down because he was so useless as a rusher 

Apples and oranges though. He was a true NT and a stud that was a UDF. That’s much different than a top 6 pick that will most likely be overpaid because of a sense of “entitlement” due to draft pedigree and money that he is currently making. 

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22 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

if he doesn't have 10 sacks plus SOJF thinks he "stinks!" 

As a fanbase we really seem to crap on our better players much more than other teams do. I’m not sure that other fanbases would dump on Leo and Jamal Adams as much as our fans do for some reason.

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4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

As a fanbase we really seem to crap on our better players much more than other teams do. I’m not sure that other fanbases would dump on Leo and Jamal Adams as much as our fans do for some reason.

24-40 is why we crap on them.

And really, the crap is directed towards Maccagnan far more than the players themselves.  That's what some of the idiots on this board can never seem to understand.

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The article says he is good but hasn’t been elite. We know. 

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I'm supposed to be happy about this?
This is a disaster for #6 - "best player in the draft" pick.

Gholston was a disaster at 6. Leo is not.

Everything is not the worst. And everything is not the end of the world. There are actually many tiers of good, moderate and bad before disaster.
Do you realize how many legitimate 1st rd disasters we’ve had as the ny jets? Gholston, milliner, Calvin Pryor. That’s just in the past 5-6 years. There are droves of more actual busts.
You may need to get an appropriate response adjustment.

Then again you may just need a couple of beers. I don’t know. 🤡


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1 hour ago, Drums said:

The article says he is good but hasn’t been elite. We know. 

Not exactly. It says he's highly rated against the run and average against the pass. That makes him "very good" in my book but not near what we hoped for. But his ceiling is high and there is reason for optimism, at least for me. Some guys here will never ever be happy. It's in their character.

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I watched all the Jets games last year.  There's no way that was a top 12 defense.

Leo is a nice player, but in no way was worth the #6 pick. That's water under the bridge now, but he's also not worth being extended at $14m per or really anywhere close to that.  If QW turns out to be as good as advertised, the Jets will be fine with him, Anderson, and a couple of JAGs on the DL.  How much do we really want allocated to three DL?

 

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34 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Not exactly. It says he's highly rated against the run and average against the pass. That makes him "very good" in my book but not near what we hoped for. But his ceiling is high and there is reason for optimism, at least for me. Some guys here will never ever be happy. It's in their character.

I'll be happy when all of this supposed high ceiling, improving talent starts translating into wins.

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3 hours ago, Larz said:

The thing with Leo is he is so naturally talented and strong that he got bye on talent for a long time and had baby fat and admitted that he was out of shape when he got to the nfl 

he looked better in the pics I saw recently so there is hope 

If this is the case, how about moving Leo to DE and switching to a 4-3? Got to make room for Quinen.

This is what happens when you draft BAP instead of for obvious need (Josh Allen).

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

24-40 is why we crap on them.

And really, the crap is directed towards Maccagnan far more than the players themselves.  That's what some of the idiots on this board can never seem to understand.

Oh yea the jets at 24-40 because of Jamal and Leo. Def has nothing to do with inept offense 

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32 minutes ago, RichardTodd27 said:

If this is the case, how about moving Leo to DE and switching to a 4-3? Got to make room for Quinen.

Then we'd have to take Avery Williamson off the field.  And CJ Mosley is a 3-4 ILB, not a 4-3 MLB. 

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8 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Oh yea the jets at 24-40 because of Jamal and Leo. Def has nothing to do with inept offense 

Its almost as if investing heavy resources in defense every draft (particularly players at non-premium positions) is a poor strategy or something.  Huh.

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4 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:


Gholston was a disaster at 6. Leo is not.

Everything is not the worst. And everything is not the end of the world. There are actually many tiers of good, moderate and bad before disaster.
Do you realize how many legitimate 1st rd disasters we’ve had as the ny jets? Gholston, milliner, Calvin Pryor. That’s just in the past 5-6 years. There are droves of more actual busts.
You may need to get an appropriate response adjustment.

Then again you may just need a couple of beers. I don’t know. 🤡


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I'm sorry, but being ranked the 32nd DT in the league and drafted at #6 overall and noted as the "Best Player in the Draft" to me is a disaster.  Not a Total bust..but a disaster.

Would you say if QW, in 4 years, is ranked as the 32nd DL in the league would be a win?

lastly, don't look at the Jets past history as an indicator of what a disaster is...

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3 hours ago, TheClashFan said:

I watched all the Jets games last year.  There's no way that was a top 12 defense.

Leo is a nice player, but in no way was worth the #6 pick. That's water under the bridge now, but he's also not worth being extended at $14m per or really anywhere close to that.  If QW turns out to be as good as advertised, the Jets will be fine with him, Anderson, and a couple of JAGs on the DL.  How much do we really want allocated to three DL?

 

Let Leo and his agent con some other dumb franchise out of $90 million in 2020

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2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm sorry, but being ranked the 32nd DT in the league and drafted at #6 overall and noted as the "Best Player in the Draft" to me is a disaster.  Not a Total bust..but a disaster.

Would you say if QW, in 4 years, is ranked as the 32nd DL in the league would be a win?

lastly, don't look at the Jets past history as an indicator of what a disaster is...

So would you rather we had drafted Kevin White who is maybe as bad as Devin Smith?

 

Cuz #offense

 

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I'm sorry, but being ranked the 32nd DT in the league and drafted at #6 overall and noted as the "Best Player in the Draft" to me is a disaster.  Not a Total bust..but a disaster.
Would you say if QW, in 4 years, is ranked as the 32nd DL in the league would be a win?
lastly, don't look at the Jets past history as an indicator of what a disaster is...

lol. Well said. To YOU it’s a disaster. I hold to my suggestion that you take a look into some appropriate response training. Again, it’s disappointing but not disastrous. There is a difference. I know it’s less dramatic and that may be what you’re going for but it’s way off.

Your final point baffles me. Where else should we look for examples of disastrous first rd picks if not the jets? We’re way up there on the first rd bust meter.

I can give you a few more examples of real disasters to help you gain some perspective.

Roger Vick, Blair Thomas, jonny lam Jones, Kyle Wilson. All far worse than Leo.
Even mike Haight, even though it was injuries, could be considered disastrous.



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2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Let Leo and his agent con some other dumb franchise out of $90 million in 2020

Why do these mediocre non premium position players get 90mm contracts?

 

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1 hour ago, batman10023 said:

Why do these mediocre non premium position players get 90mm contracts?

 

Why is Russel Wilson going to get an average of 35 million dollars a year, to get sacked 45+ times a season.  Don't get me wrong, he's a very good quarterback, but give me a break. 

Why does a "Max" player in the NBA get 40 million/year ?  Doesn't even have to be just the best player on the team.  2nd best player gets 40 million too.  Goody.

Why does an azzhole like Bryce Harper, who isn't close to the best player in baseball, in my opinion, qualify for a guaranteed salary of  $45,000 dollars/ at bat,  $157,000/game,  and,  $330 million over thirteen years.  Guaranteed.

I love sports, but these salaries make me sick.  And it won't get better, any time soon.  In fact, it'll get worse.  Sad.

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I’m hoping someone like Shepard steps up and “gets it” in training camp.

I’d like to move Leo to a team perhaps a contender, at the end of pre-season, or beginning of the season. Perhaps re-coup a 3rd, or really fleece someone for 2nd rounder. I don’t want us paying Edge Rusher money to Leo for 5 sacks a year. 

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This is Leo’s prove it year. I think he will show up.

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Wouldn’t it be funny if we have our best defense since 2011 with an “offensive minded HC...”

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So would you rather we had drafted Kevin White who is maybe as bad as Devin Smith?
 
Cuz #offense
 

I wouldn’t have drafted Kevin White but yes. I would have rather drafted White.

At least your showing the team that you care about offense, the you understand being great at stopping the run isn’t the single most important thing in NFL football.

Leo, being the 32nd ranked DT in the NFL essentially means every team in the league has a better DT than Leo. Immensely replaceable. And much cheaper to do so.

If, in fact, Leo is the 32nd ranked DT _ the Jets almost certainly would be better if they drafted no one. Paying number 6 money, to a non premium player in a non premium position is simply bad.



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24:25:31
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8 hours ago, batman10023 said:

Why do these mediocre non premium position players get 90mm contracts?

 

 

05D09F93-6D15-4DA8-8E3C-EA022EAE9B06.jpeg

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4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:


I wouldn’t have drafted Kevin White but yes. I would have rather drafted White.

At least your showing the team that you care about offense, the you understand being great at stopping the run isn’t the single most important thing in NFL football.

Leo, being the 32nd ranked DT in the NFL essentially means every team in the league has a better DT than Leo. Immensely replaceable. And much cheaper to do so.

If, in fact, Leo is the 32nd ranked DT _ the Jets almost certainly would be better if they drafted no one. Paying number 6 money, to a non premium player in a non premium position is simply bad.



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24:25:31

Leo hasn’t been good but he’s been way better than Kevin White and the only other viable option was Vic Beasley who looks like a one year wonder

 

I’m not a Leo fan and I want him gone after next season but he’s been better than the other guys we were considering 

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5 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

I’m hoping someone like Shepard steps up and “gets it” in training camp.

I’d like to move Leo to a team perhaps a contender, at the end of pre-season, or beginning of the season. Perhaps re-coup a 3rd, or really fleece someone for 2nd rounder. I don’t want us paying Edge Rusher money to Leo for 5 sacks a year. 

I think this is the best possible plan.  Use Leo’s money to sign OL, CB and WR for next year. 

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3 minutes ago, varjet said:

I think this is the best possible plan.  Use Leo’s money to sign OL, CB and WR for next year. 

QW prevents the inevitable $90 million payday Mac was going to give Leo.  Sign a couple blue chip offensive players next offseason 

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On 5/4/2019 at 11:25 AM, Lith said:

Generally, I like PFF.  I appreciate their effort to grade players as a way of comparing players where you can't really rely on stats to analyze impact.  But there are times where they certainly leave you scratching your head.  Like how can the Jets have a defensive grade of 83.5 when they only have 1 player on the Jets defense graded above 83.5.  I am not a math whiz, but I do not see how they can possibly decide that the following ratings justify an 83.5 overall team grade:

  • Jamal Adams 89.7 
  • Marcus Maye 81.5
  • Darryl Roberts 68.9
  • Morris Claiborne 62.7
  • Trumaine Johnson 74.9
  • Buster Skrine 57.3
  • Jordan Jenkins 52.4
  • Brandon Copeland 67.4
  • Darron Lee 72.4
  • Avery Williamson 74.3
  • Leo Williams 78.2
  • Steve McLendon 78.5
  • Henry Anderson 76.5

And somehow, these grades equate to an 83.5 defensive grade.  Maybe I am missing something in the PFF methodology, but this sure is a head scratcher to me.

They more than likely use a composite score with different variables to grade players than they do to grade a team. It’s unlikely they grade each individual player than simply take the mean of every player to give them their team grading. I’m not speaking from any sort of knowledge, just makes sense. But point taken 

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On 5/4/2019 at 11:25 AM, Lith said:

Generally, I like PFF.  I appreciate their effort to grade players as a way of comparing players where you can't really rely on stats to analyze impact.  But there are times where they certainly leave you scratching your head.  Like how can the Jets have a defensive grade of 83.5 when they only have 1 player on the Jets defense graded above 83.5.  I am not a math whiz, but I do not see how they can possibly decide that the following ratings justify an 83.5 overall team grade:

  • Jamal Adams 89.7 
  • Marcus Maye 81.5
  • Darryl Roberts 68.9
  • Morris Claiborne 62.7
  • Trumaine Johnson 74.9
  • Buster Skrine 57.3
  • Jordan Jenkins 52.4
  • Brandon Copeland 67.4
  • Darron Lee 72.4
  • Avery Williamson 74.3
  • Leo Williams 78.2
  • Steve McLendon 78.5
  • Henry Anderson 76.5

And somehow, these grades equate to an 83.5 defensive grade.  Maybe I am missing something in the PFF methodology, but this sure is a head scratcher to me.

They more than likely use a composite score with different variables to grade players than they do to grade a team. It’s unlikely they grade each individual player than simply take the mean of every player to give them their team grading. I’m not speaking from any sort of knowledge, just makes sense. But point taken 

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we just watched a super bowl where a team with two dominant DT held the Pats to 3-3 for most of the contest and lost 13-3 overall 

if Goff shows up the Pats lose that game

Fans worrying about what Leo would get paid should realize 1) the Jets often only lure mercenaries like Trumaine Johnson and Leveon Bell. It's arguable that any player of Leo's quality would shake free from another team to replace that production 2) they are still like 30 mil under the cap 

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On 5/5/2019 at 8:05 AM, Philc1 said:

 Sign a couple blue chip offensive players next offseason 

only problem those guys don't make it to free agency

the highest paid offensive lineman in the league right now is Trent Brown. 

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On 5/5/2019 at 8:05 AM, Philc1 said:

QW prevents the inevitable $90 million payday Mac was going to give Leo.  Sign a couple blue chip offensive players next offseason 

 

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

only problem those guys don't make it to free agency

the highest paid offensive lineman in the league right now is Trent Brown. 

Agreed. Usually the OL that become FAs are flawed and go for WAY too much (See nate solder last year). And how often do elite playmakers like Gronk/Julio/Kelce/Hopkins shake loose via free agency? Even a flawed guy like Odell was signed by the Giants. 

Last year the highest paid FA WR was Sammy Watkins who is nothing special. (maybe 1 other WR went for more). Everyone here wanted Allen Robinson last year (including me) and he was nothing special. 

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4 hours ago, bitonti said:

only problem those guys don't make it to free agency

the highest paid offensive lineman in the league right now is Trent Brown. 

In the big picture, it would appear that QB, OL, WR and EDGE are tough to find in FA.  You need to either draft them high, or if you find them lower the smart teams tend to lock them early.

So smart teams get lots of draft picks to take chances on players and/or trade up for the players you want.

You draft lots of WR, OL and EDGE to try and find one.  This is EXACTLY what the Steelersdo.   Who was the last DL the Steelers drafted high?

That is why Mac's drafting is so frustrating.   He made a HUGE bet that Josh Allen was not going to be as valuable as Quinnen, and that Polite can be a better EDGE than Allen.   At worst, given the Jets roster, at worst Mac keeps his draft picks and drafts OL and WR only in rounds 3-7.  Many on this Board have their eyes on the players that we thought would be better additions to this team than Wesco, Cashman, Austin and maybe even Chuma.

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On 5/4/2019 at 3:29 PM, Creepy Lurker said:

Apples and oranges though. He was a true NT and a stud that was a UDF. That’s much different than a top 6 pick that will most likely be overpaid because of a sense of “entitlement” due to draft pedigree and money that he is currently making. 

lol

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