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The premiere positions (most expensive, hardest to find great players) are generally considered to be QB, CB, Edge rushers, Left Tackle.

In 5 years Macc seems to have filled only one of those through the Draft (Darnold).  He has taken numerous shots at both CB (Juston Burris, Jeremy Clark, Derrick Jones, Parry Nickerson) and Edge rusher (Mauldin, Polite, etc.) without hitting on any thus far.  He's drafted Brandon Shell to play RT and now Chuma Edoga as RT/LT.

THOSE are the players he has to hit on, @bealeb319, in order to truly turn around his record.  Even with Jamal Adams and Leo Williams looking good (very good?) those aren't premium positions of value and they were both Top 6 picks. They're expected to be excellent players.

I give Macc credit for several things.  Aside from Darron Lee (who I still consider an okay starter, not a bust) he has hit on his 1st round picks which really is important because of the financial commitments made to those guys and the opportunity cost associated with a miss in Round 1.  I give him credit for the St. Patrick's Day trade up to get Darnold (and if people call it luck that's fine, then just call guys like Devin Smith bad luck).  I give him credit for some good trades and FA moves (Henry Anderson, Brandon Marshall, Kelechi Osemele, Teddy Bridgewater and flipping him for a 3rd rounder, etc.).  But Macc needs to start hitting on at least 50% of his Draft picks and more importantly, he needs to hit on the premiere positions.

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9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

If the Jets win 10 games, look good and make the playoffs - then Mac should keep his job.

Thus keeping him around long enough to screw up the next phase of our rebuild:  Finding a new LT, G (or 2), C, RB, WR (or 2) and 2+ Corners to replace the likes of Bell, Beachum, Osemele, possibly Winters, Crowder, possibly Robby Anderson, Poole, and possibly Trumaine Johnson. 

All of those positions will need to be replaced/upgraded by the 2020 offseason.  We're currently staring at an offensive line containing only Edoga in 2021. 

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3 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

Is that realistic? Has any team ever hit on 50 percent of their draft picks?

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It depends on how you define "hit"  I think you'd better have more than half of your picks making the end of their rookie deals.  Those guys are not all going to be hits (Kyle Wilson, Kenrick Ellis) and some will play bullsh*t positions (Conner, Bohanon, Edwards) but you can't survive drafting a bunch of guys that are gone that quick (Smith, Mauldin, Hackenberg, Stewart, Hansen, Burris, Donahue). 

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My 2 cents on the complaining thing 

tomshame feels like he’s doing max a favor by stepping into the patsfantx void and trolling the board. I’m not sure it actually helps. I’m sure it turns off plenty of people and makes the board look like football idiots in the process. The real shame is the people that pick up the drum beat not even aware of what’s going on lol. 

Other posters just choose to focus on the negative. That’s fine but you lose all credibility in the process. Sure most of what the Jets do recently hasn’t worked out but it’s not all bad. 

The only posters I read any more are call it like I see it types. 

Its actually helpful to see how they view a player when it’s different from my view. 

The gaslighters, trolls, haters and chicken littles that just come here to unload on the Jets are so lame but what stinks is someone coming here might think Jets fans don’t value intangibles, leadership, linebackers or even defense in general. 

The jets are an abusive relationship, but if you can’t even get a little excited in May for a team with a new coaching staff, good young QB, all pro dual threat playmaker running back, new young pass rushers and 2 all pro defenders up the middle, why are you here?

If you choose to find positives or negatives with this team you will be successful either way. 

If you choose to look for the negative good for you but that doesn’t make you the cool kids or the smart kids it makes you the fly buzzing around a picnic  

 

Ok that was more like 50 cents 

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21 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:



Is that realistic? Has any team ever hit on 50 percent of their draft picks?

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

I guess it depends on what you (I?) meant by "hit".  I would suggest that for purposes of this discussion a "hit" is simply drafting a player that became a starter for a reasonable amount of time.  He can't be a bust.  He can't be a backup.  But he also doesn't need to be a Pro Bowler.  To me, hitting in the Draft means you're filling your roster and finding guys who can start on your football team.  You're finding a guy for one of the 22 positions of starter.

With that said, I'd suggest that the Jets have done this a few times in the modern era....but not recently and not really under Macc yet, unless you count Lac Edwards.

 

50%

2072446021_ScreenShot2019-05-06at9_43_56AM.png.abedd1f82eeb80214844ac1e9ea97d30.png

 

Either 66% or 100%

632391128_ScreenShot2019-05-06at9_44_08AM.png.4e601197239ab7fec2297b08fa5c899b.png

 

50%

1280456007_ScreenShot2019-05-06at9_44_28AM.png.c9d512b1b237c1ad199aeaebec51752f.png

 

57%

1476507655_ScreenShot2019-05-06at9_44_59AM.png.88db45ff76ff285d87f2cd34d8492e4e.png

 

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14 minutes ago, Larz said:

My 2 cents on the complaining thing 

tomshame feels like he’s doing max a favor by stepping into the patsfantx void and trolling the board. I’m not sure it actually helps. I’m sure it turns off plenty of people and makes the board look like football idiots in the process. The real shame is the people that pick up the drum beat not even aware of what’s going on lol. 

Other posters just choose to focus on the negative. That’s fine but you lose all credibility in the process. Sure most of what the Jets do recently hasn’t worked out but it’s not all bad. 

The only posters I read any more are call it like I see it types. 

Its actually helpful to see how they view a player when it’s different from my view. 

The gaslighters, trolls, haters and chicken littles that just come here to unload on the Jets are so lame but what stinks is someone coming here might think Jets fans don’t value intangibles, leadership, linebackers or even defense in general. 

The jets are an abusive relationship, but if you can’t even get a little excited in May for a team with a new coaching staff, good young QB, all pro dual threat playmaker running back, new young pass rushers and 2 all pro defenders up the middle, why are you here?

If you choose to find positives or negatives with this team you will be successful either way. 

If you choose to look for the negative good for you but that doesn’t make you the cool kids or the smart kids it makes you the fly buzzing around a picnic  

 

Ok that was more like 50 cents 

@T0mShane was @T0mShane when @PatsFanTX was here. Do you think he was is some kind of homer deep down and this is an act?  He overstates things for entertainment value, but I am pretty certain that his hatred of this administration and self-loathing are real and genuinely earned.  They are not a facade to generate clicks. 

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22 minutes ago, jgb said:

What if I was a little bit taller I could be a baller something something then I would call her I think I’m mixing up my songs oh well Jamal Adams is overrated @T0mShane

Jamal Adams and Leo Williams aren't just starters, they're good starters.  Very good in fact.  Other teams would love to have those guys.  If they were taken at #15 or #20 in the Draft I guess more of our fans would appreciate them a little more.  But they were taken at #6 so they're underachievers and we need to boo them.

For a team that's drafted as poorly as the Jets over the years and a team that hasn't really won sh!t since 2010, the fact that we reserve some of our most vociferous criticism for our best players is just so jetsy to me.  Of course I want those guys to play even better, but after watching guys like Mo Wilkerson, Chad Hansen, Richardson, Geno, Vernon Gholston, Hack, Devin Smith, Calvin Pryor, etc. take the field for this team I just have a hard time understanding why we hammer two of our best players who seem to show up every week and put in the work.

I feel bad for Sam Darnold.  Going at #3 instead of #6 means he better be twice as good as Leo and Adams this year.  If we don't see 25 TDs / 10 INTs then I'm wondering what we can trade him for next year. 

 

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56 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Thus keeping him around long enough to screw up the next phase of our rebuild:  Finding a new LT, G (or 2), C, RB, WR (or 2) and 2+ Corners to replace the likes of Bell, Beachum, Osemele, possibly Winters, Crowder, possibly Robby Anderson, Poole, and possibly Trumaine Johnson. 

All of those positions will need to be replaced/upgraded by the 2020 offseason.  We're currently staring at an offensive line containing only Edoga in 2021. 

Well, if they do find a way to win 10 games - and it's certainly not out to the realm of possibility if Darnold takes a major step forward and they stay healthy.

At that point Mac has built a solid roster and many of the players he's signed or draft are panning out. 

Yes, next year he HAS to focus on O-line - but he can.  We'll still have a lot of cap space.

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Just now, FidelioJet said:

Well, if they do find a way to win 10 games - and it's certainly not out to the realm of possibility if Darnold takes a major step forward and they stay healthy.

At that point Mac has built a solid roster and many of the players he's signed or draft are panning out. 

Yes, next year he HAS to focus on O-line - but he can.  We'll still have a lot of cap space.

Winning 10 games does not necessarily indicate that Mac has built a solid roster or that many of the players he's signed or drafted are panning out.  Think back to 2015.  It's not that hard to do.  It depends which players are leading this charge.  Are they the ones that will be around for 2022?  

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19 minutes ago, Larz said:

My 2 cents on the complaining thing 

tomshame feels like he’s doing max a favor by stepping into the patsfantx void and trolling the board. I’m not sure it actually helps. I’m sure it turns off plenty of people and makes the board look like football idiots in the process. The real shame is the people that pick up the drum beat not even aware of what’s going on lol. 

Other posters just choose to focus on the negative. That’s fine but you lose all credibility in the process. Sure most of what the Jets do recently hasn’t worked out but it’s not all bad. 

The only posters I read any more are call it like I see it types. 

Its actually helpful to see how they view a player when it’s different from my view. 

The gaslighters, trolls, haters and chicken littles that just come here to unload on the Jets are so lame but what stinks is someone coming here might think Jets fans don’t value intangibles, leadership, linebackers or even defense in general. 

The jets are an abusive relationship, but if you can’t even get a little excited in May for a team with a new coaching staff, good young QB, all pro dual threat playmaker running back, new young pass rushers and 2 all pro defenders up the middle, why are you here?

If you choose to find positives or negatives with this team you will be successful either way. 

If you choose to look for the negative good for you but that doesn’t make you the cool kids or the smart kids it makes you the fly buzzing around a picnic  

 

Ok that was more like 50 cents 

As ever, you are a ******* clown. The team has been bad for a majority of your adult life and you claim you want people to "call it like they see it" and then get upset because what they "see" is a bad football team? You don't like following the Jets as much as you like bitterly complaining about the people who dare to criticize a perpetually sub-.500 football team, and then when you're faced with the reality of that sub-.500 team, you--without fail--revert to the "Ah, well, it's just a gaaaaame. Why take it so seriously as to generate a negative opinion?" Kudos to you for holding the standard that the only two opinions worth having are 1. a blindly optimistic opinion or 2. no opinion whatsoever, but, **** you, because this is a message board and not, in fact, a place where others should feel the need to validate or adhere to your vapid, worthless two-tiered belief system wherein the Jets are either good or you just turn your head away from seeing the not-good altogether. For a snowflake bitch like yourself, who claims to have "half the board" muted or blocked, you're the one jerkoff who obsessively comments on the thoughts of others whose views you find offensive or untenable. The definition of "trolling" is trying to annoy or incite people on the internet by posting inflammatory or digressive content to merit a response. I'd say that coming to a Jets message board and constantly whining about posters expressing negative opinions about a team that has been at or below .500 seven of the last ten seasons, is "trolling" that message board. A subtle reminder, ****face: this message board was founded by a group of people who were thrown off of JetsInsider because we weren't sucking the Jets organizational dick during a period where the owner of JI was trying to get an in with the Jets. That small group of people who built this website devoted countless hours to building this ******* brand on the basis of providing a forum of free expression as it relates to the sh*t-eating Jets franchise. Yes, dipsh*t, this place was built by people whom your banal, worthless ass would blithely describe as "trolls" or "gaslighters," and we did it so that lame sh*tposters like you could have a place to go to endlessly whine about "trolling" without fear of getting banned. As far as Tex is concerned, it's worth noting that you (and others) still talk about Tex even though he hasn't posted here in three ******* years. Tex is a legendary content creator. If you left this board for all of eternity, no one would ******* notice because you provide nothing but endless bitching that nobody cares about nor particularly wants to hear. What's the great thread @Larz has ever started? Where is the great, insightful football post that @Larz has ever contributed to this site? Where is the great, incontrovertible defense of the Jets franchise that @Larz once posted that shut the "haters" and "trolls" down? They don't exist, because the sum total of your existence on this message board has been nothing but whining about other posts. Shut the **** up, delete your account, block this website from your browser, and eat a dick. 

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44 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Winning 10 games does not necessarily indicate that Mac has built a solid roster or that many of the players he's signed or drafted are panning out.  Think back to 2015.  It's not that hard to do.  It depends which players are leading this charge.  Are they the ones that will be around for 2022?  

You are right, t doesn't necessarily mean this is a strong roster - and I didn't intend to speak in absolutes - but in theory - if the team is capable enough to win 10 games and make the playoffs - it's usually a pretty good roster, this year's team is quite a bit different from last years - and does have Mac's fingerprints all over it. It would likely  mean many of the moves/picks Mac made - Osemele, Crowder, Bell, Mosely, Williams, Herdon (taking the next step) etc...panned out

While there are still plenty of holes - it would point to good things on the horizon and I would not want to shake that up.

 

 

 

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Just now, FidelioJet said:

You are right, t doesn't necessarily mean this is a strong roster - and I didn't intend to speak in absolutes - but in theory - if the team is capable enough to win 10 games and make the playoffs - it's usually a pretty good roster, this year's team is quite a bit different from last years - and does have Mac's fingerprints all over it. It would likely  mean many of the moves/picks Mac made - Osemele, Crowder, Bell, Mosely, Williams, Herdon (taking the next step) etc...panned out 

While there are still plenty of holes - it would point to good things on the horizon and I would not want to shake that up. 

 

Again, you're ignoring that this very thing happened in 2015.  In Week 16 we were 10-5.  Since that point we've gone 14-35.

This roster isn't built for "good things on the horizon".  Its built to be pretty good for the next 2 years at most, then fall off a cliff. 

Macc has to draft well for there to be any hope for the future.  If we go 10-6 this year because guys like Darnold, Quinnen Williams, Polite and Edoga play awesome, that would be one thing.  But if we go 10-6 because of all the free agent acquisitions, that isn't a signal that we have great things to come. 

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24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

As ever, you are a ******* clown. The team has been bad for a majority of your adult life and you claim you want people to "call it like they see it" and then get upset because what they "see" is a bad football team? You don't like following the Jets as much as you like bitterly complaining about the people who dare to criticize a perpetually sub-.500 football team, and then when you're faced with the reality of that sub-.500 team, you--without fail--revert to the "Ah, well, it's just a gaaaaame. Why take it so seriously as to generate a negative opinion?" Kudos to you for holding the standard that the only two opinions worth having are 1. a blindly optimistic opinion or 2. no opinion whatsoever, but, **** you, because this is a message board and not, in fact, a place where others should feel the need to validate or adhere to your vapid, worthless two-tiered belief system wherein the Jets are either good or you just turn your head away from seeing the not-good altogether. For a snowflake bitch like yourself, who claims to have "half the board" muted or blocked, you're the one jerkoff who obsessively comments on the thoughts of others whose views you find offensive or untenable. The definition of "trolling" is trying to annoy or incite people on the internet by posting inflammatory or digressive content to merit a response. I'd say that coming to a Jets message board and constantly whining about posters expressing negative opinions about a team that has been at or below .500 seven of the last ten seasons, is "trolling" that message board. A subtle reminder, ****face: this message board was founded by a group of people who were thrown off of JetsInsider because we weren't sucking the Jets organizational dick during a period where the owner of JI was trying to get an in with the Jets. That small group of people who built this website devoted countless hours to building this ******* brand on the basis of providing a forum of free expression as it relates to the sh*t-eating Jets franchise. Yes, dipsh*t, this place was built by people whom your banal, worthless ass would blithely describe as "trolls" or "gaslighters," and we did it so that lame sh*tposters like you could have a place to go to endlessly whine about "trolling" without fear of getting banned. As far as Tex is concerned, it's worth noting that you (and others) still talk about Tex even though he hasn't posted here in three ******* years. Tex is a legendary content creator. If you left this board for all of eternity, no one would ******* notice because you provide nothing but endless bitching that nobody cares about nor particularly wants to hear. What's the great thread @Larz has ever started? Where is the great, insightful football post that @Larz has ever contributed to this site? Where is the great, incontrovertible defense of the Jets franchise that @Larz once posted that shut the "haters" and "trolls" down? They don't exist, because the sum total of your existence on this message board has been nothing but whining about other posts. Shut the **** up, delete your account, block this website from your browser, and eat a dick. 

Hey Max, are we still doin post of the week? if so my vote goes to one of Tom's finest rants

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3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

As ever, you are a ******* clown. The team has been bad for a majority of your adult life and you claim you want people to "call it like they see it" and then get upset because what they "see" is a bad football team? You don't like following the Jets as much as you like bitterly complaining about the people who dare to criticize a perpetually sub-.500 football team, and then when you're faced with the reality of that sub-.500 team, you--without fail--revert to the "Ah, well, it's just a gaaaaame. Why take it so seriously as to generate a negative opinion?" Kudos to you for holding the standard that the only two opinions worth having are 1. a blindly optimistic opinion or 2. no opinion whatsoever, but, **** you, because this is a message board and not, in fact, a place where others should feel the need to validate or adhere to your vapid, worthless two-tiered belief system wherein the Jets are either good or you just turn your head away from seeing the not-good altogether. For a snowflake bitch like yourself, who claims to have "half the board" muted or blocked, you're the one jerkoff who obsessively comments on the thoughts of others whose views you find offensive or untenable. The definition of "trolling" is trying to annoy or incite people on the internet by posting inflammatory or digressive content to merit a response. I'd say that coming to a Jets message board and constantly whining about posters expressing negative opinions about a team that has been at or below .500 seven of the last ten seasons, is "trolling" that message board. A subtle reminder, ****face: this message board was founded by a group of people who were thrown off of JetsInsider because we weren't sucking the Jets organizational dick during a period where the owner of JI was trying to get an in with the Jets. That small group of people who built this website devoted countless hours to building this ******* brand on the basis of providing a forum of free expression as it relates to the sh*t-eating Jets franchise. Yes, dipsh*t, this place was built by people whom your banal, worthless ass would blithely describe as "trolls" or "gaslighters," and we did it so that lame sh*tposters like you could have a place to go to endlessly whine about "trolling" without fear of getting banned. As far as Tex is concerned, it's worth noting that you (and others) still talk about Tex even though he hasn't posted here in three ******* years. Tex is a legendary content creator. If you left this board for all of eternity, no one would ******* notice because you provide nothing but endless bitching that nobody cares about nor particularly wants to hear. What's the great thread @Larz has ever started? Where is the great, insightful football post that @Larz has ever contributed to this site? Where is the great, incontrovertible defense of the Jets franchise that @Larz once posted that shut the "haters" and "trolls" down? They don't exist, because the sum total of your existence on this message board has been nothing but whining about other posts. Shut the **** up, delete your account, block this website from your browser, and eat a dick. 

Oh my.  We call the two extremes, the “Sunshine Pumpers” and the “Whiney Little Pukes”.  

How about those of us that go back and forth between the two extremes?  It can get tedious when people never budge from those two extremes.  

Be nice, Thomas. ?

 

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4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

As ever, you are a ******* clown. The team has been bad for a majority of your adult life and you claim you want people to "call it like they see it" and then get upset because what they "see" is a bad football team? You don't like following the Jets as much as you like bitterly complaining about the people who dare to criticize a perpetually sub-.500 football team, and then when you're faced with the reality of that sub-.500 team, you--without fail--revert to the "Ah, well, it's just a gaaaaame. Why take it so seriously as to generate a negative opinion?" Kudos to you for holding the standard that the only two opinions worth having are 1. a blindly optimistic opinion or 2. no opinion whatsoever, but, **** you, because this is a message board and not, in fact, a place where others should feel the need to validate or adhere to your vapid, worthless two-tiered belief system wherein the Jets are either good or you just turn your head away from seeing the not-good altogether. For a snowflake bitch like yourself, who claims to have "half the board" muted or blocked, you're the one jerkoff who obsessively comments on the thoughts of others whose views you find offensive or untenable. The definition of "trolling" is trying to annoy or incite people on the internet by posting inflammatory or digressive content to merit a response. I'd say that coming to a Jets message board and constantly whining about posters expressing negative opinions about a team that has been at or below .500 seven of the last ten seasons, is "trolling" that message board. A subtle reminder, ****face: this message board was founded by a group of people who were thrown off of JetsInsider because we weren't sucking the Jets organizational dick during a period where the owner of JI was trying to get an in with the Jets. That small group of people who built this website devoted countless hours to building this ******* brand on the basis of providing a forum of free expression as it relates to the sh*t-eating Jets franchise. Yes, dipsh*t, this place was built by people whom your banal, worthless ass would blithely describe as "trolls" or "gaslighters," and we did it so that lame sh*tposters like you could have a place to go to endlessly whine about "trolling" without fear of getting banned. As far as Tex is concerned, it's worth noting that you (and others) still talk about Tex even though he hasn't posted here in three ******* years. Tex is a legendary content creator. If you left this board for all of eternity, no one would ******* notice because you provide nothing but endless bitching that nobody cares about nor particularly wants to hear. What's the great thread @Larz has ever started? Where is the great, insightful football post that @Larz has ever contributed to this site? Where is the great, incontrovertible defense of the Jets franchise that @Larz once posted that shut the "haters" and "trolls" down? They don't exist, because the sum total of your existence on this message board has been nothing but whining about other posts. Shut the **** up, delete your account, block this website from your browser, and eat a dick. 

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7 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Jamal Adams and Leo Williams aren't just starters, they're good starters.  Very good in fact.  Other teams would love to have those guys.  If they were taken at #15 or #20 in the Draft I guess more of our fans would appreciate them a little more.  But they were taken at #6 so they're underachievers and we need to boo them.

For a team that's drafted as poorly as the Jets over the years and a team that hasn't really won sh!t since 2010, the fact that we reserve some of our most vociferous criticism for our best players is just so jetsy to me.  Of course I want those guys to play even better, but after watching guys like Mo Wilkerson, Chad Hansen, Richardson, Geno, Vernon Gholston, Hack, Devin Smith, Calvin Pryor, etc. take the field for this team I just have a hard time understanding why we hammer two of our best players who seem to show up every week and put in the work.

I feel bad for Sam Darnold.  Going at #3 instead of #6 means he better be twice as good as Leo and Adams this year.  If we don't see 25 TDs / 10 INTs then I'm wondering what we can trade him for next year. 

 

I was kidding, Abigail. ;) 

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35 minutes ago, jgb said:

I was kidding, Abigail. ;) 

I wasn't really directing that towards you, but I didn't feel the need to create a new thread trying to talk sense into some of our knucklehead fans who apparently are so used to success and having great players that they think Leo and Adams are crap.

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On 5/5/2019 at 4:39 PM, bealeb319 said:

 

What if for all the crap people on this forum give Mac all of his draft picks not just from this year but the ones left on the roster from previous years look good this season? Does all the hatred fall back onto Bowles? Mac has been fairly decent in free agency and with trades, he has kept our salary cap in good shape each year. Would we accept him as a decent gm or would we look for other reasons to get rid of him?

 

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

 

 

 

Is there anyone ever that this board liked while they were with us?   Though I admit much of the criticism is deserved.  I say if we go to the playoffs and are in a good cap situation next year I'll feel much better about Macc.

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