Christopher Johnson vs Woody Johnson

[Scoop24]

I like Chris some good things has happened on his watch . Franchise QB, Offensive Minded HC,  elite players like bell added to offense, New Jersey’s ,

Woody kinda got stale with his repetitiveness in the way he went about things for the jets .  I’m not saying what Chris has done to this point will work . It’s just refreshing to try a different approach. For once where not talking bout some kinda ground and pound offense and limiting the QBs passing. 

[jgb]

Chris can’t change the brand of toilet paper in the MetLife johns without say so from London 

[southparkcpa]

5 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

So whether you respect the way Woody and Chris got their money or not ( you obviously don't), they've taken said money and become part of a very exclusive group giving them almost guaranteed returns (when was the last time the NFL actually lost money?) of a minimum of 255 million annually. The NFL is almost a sure fire money maker and the guy you're making out to be a villain of filthy rich because of it. He's already made billions since owning the Jets, and with the new stadium he's likely added about a billion dollars to the overall estimated value of the franchise.

I have no issue with the wealthy, many people call me wealthy, some think you are wealthy it's a meter of perspective.  I am passionate about business. I read tons of books on it.  I am a successful CPA and deal with success and failure of business's everyday and first hand I witness the behavior patterns of both. The WORST owners are still wealthy from revenue sharing etc.  I would argue that you or I could have done as well as Woody.  At some point, their success is measured by winning and they can't seem to do that. That requires surrounding yourself with talent.  They don't do that either. They don't attract talent and they clearly aren't respected. You want to defend them. Be my guest but I imagine behind closed doors Woody is not respected by his peers, but he has certain Jets fans who do.

[nyjunc]

Woody gets too much crap, he took over in 2000 and a year later Tom Brady came along.  Despite that we had our most successful stretch in franchise history from 2000-2011.  It's been rough this decade and he's made numerous mistakes to keep us down BUT he gave to go ahead for the total rebuild and exciting times are ahead because of it.

[section314]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Woody gets too much crap, he took over in 2000 and a year later Tom Brady came along.  Despite that we had our most successful stretch in franchise history from 2000-2011.  It's been rough this decade and he's made numerous mistakes to keep us down BUT he gave to go ahead for the total rebuild and exciting times are ahead because of it.

No question it was the right call to do this. The problem is the person Woody entrusted the rebuild to. Say what you want about Hess, he did bring Parcells in here and things changed dramatically. At the time, Parcells was as big as it got in the NFL. Since Woody has owned this team, no veteran, respected NFL "guy" will even take his call to either coach or be GM of this team. Thus, we are relegated every 4-6 years of getting "rookie" people to run this place. Woody is a joke in NFL circles. You know it and I know it.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

No question it was the right call to do this. The problem is the person Woody entrusted the rebuild to. Say what you want about Hess, he did bring Parcells in here and things changed dramatically. At the time, Parcells was as big as it got in the NFL. Since Woody has owned this team, no veteran, respected NFL "guy" will even take his call to either coach or be GM of this team. Thus, we are relegated every 4-6 years of getting "rookie" people to run this place. Woody is a joke in NFL circles. You know it and I know it.

Hess was a disaster and it took him until he was near death before he got Parcells.  Hess became sole owner in 1984.  From me 1984-1999 the Jets made the playoffs 4 times and won 2 playoff games with 8 losing seasons.  Woody was around 2000-2016 where we made the playoffs 6 times and won 6 playoff games with 6 losing seasons.

Mike McCarthy is a SB winning coach who said he wanted the Jets job.  Coaches like Parcells don't shake free often, who did we try to get and failed with Woody?

[section314]

8 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Hess was a disaster and it took him until he was near death before he got Parcells.  Hess became sole owner in 1984.  From me 1984-1999 the Jets made the playoffs 4 times and won 2 playoff games with 8 losing seasons.  Woody was around 2000-2016 where we made the playoffs 6 times and won 6 playoff games with 6 losing seasons.

Mike McCarthy is a SB winning coach who said he wanted the Jets job.  Coaches like Parcells don't shake free often, who did we try to get and failed with Woody?

Possibly the GOAT, BB. When it became obvious that either Dolan or Woody was going to be the new owner, he didn't walk, he ran to get the hell out of here. Al Groh, a respected NFL veteran, took the bullet the first year out of loyalty to Parcells. After that, it was a collection of guys that wouldn't be anyone's first call......Herm, Mangini, Rex, Bowles and now Gase. Look at the GM's.....any of those guys in demand?  Connect the dots here, Woody and his management style are kryptonite to good people in NFL circles.

[Jetsfan80]

11 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Holy crap. 

It’s not about the owners. 

It has been and always will be about the quarterback. 

It's funny when folks say Woody or Chris don’t care about winning, all they care is about the cash cow. 

They OWN an NFL team- it is by definition a CASH COW. Regardless of what they do. 

Of course they both want to win, they’ve just never had the QB. 

Now they do  

They’re both fine and Woody is the guy that put his cash up (inherited or earned) so I’m going with Woody. But Chris is fine as the substitute teacher.  

 

They hired Mike Maccagnan, on the advice of "football people", since they were too incompetent to make a hire on their own (before that they used Korn Ferry).  Macc's first 4 QB's were Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg and Josh McCown.  He then offered Kirk Cousins more money than anyone, before his assistant GM made a trade from 6 to 3, where they thought they'd likely end up getting Josh Allen.

But sure, the owners have nothing to do with hiring competent people that lead to getting said QB.  Nothing at all to do with it. 

[Snell41]

Please. You think it was an accident? 

There’s another from an earlier season but it wasn’t Starbucks. It was actually in Jamie’s hand. I think they were just careless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Philc1]

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

They hired Mike Maccagnan, on the advice of "football people", since they were too incompetent to make a hire on their own (before that they used Korn Ferry).  Macc's first 4 QB's were Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg and Josh McCown.  He then offered Kirk Cousins more money than anyone, before his assistant GM made a trade from 6 to 3, where they thought they'd likely end up getting Josh Allen.

But sure, the owners have nothing to do with hiring competent people that lead to getting said QB.  Nothing at all to do with it. 

Well said

[MDL_JET]

I like Chris better just because he seems to actually care what's going on with the team and deeply cares about winning and most importantly the fans. He wants to be involved (which can be good and bad). 

Woody cared about winning but more so from a "We need to be winning so I can sell tickets" point of view. 

[MDL_JET]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

They hired Mike Maccagnan, on the advice of "football people", since they were too incompetent to make a hire on their own (before that they used Korn Ferry).  Macc's first 4 QB's were Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg and Josh McCown.  He then offered Kirk Cousins more money than anyone, before his assistant GM made a trade from 6 to 3, where they thought they'd likely end up getting Josh Allen.

But sure, the owners have nothing to do with hiring competent people that lead to getting said QB.  Nothing at all to do with it. 

lol man you guys really don't wanna give Mac an ounce of credit for that trade huh?? 

[Philc1]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

lol man you guys really don't wanna give Mac an ounce of credit for that trade huh?? 

Sure but then you have to give Macc credit for absolutely botching his first several drafts and giving bad contracts to Revis, Wilk, Skrine, Fitz etc

[Philc1]

58 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Hess was a disaster and it took him until he was near death before he got Parcells.  Hess became sole owner in 1984.  From me 1984-1999 the Jets made the playoffs 4 times and won 2 playoff games with 8 losing seasons.  Woody was around 2000-2016 where we made the playoffs 6 times and won 6 playoff games with 6 losing seasons.

Mike McCarthy is a SB winning coach who said he wanted the Jets job.  Coaches like Parcells don't shake free often, who did we try to get and failed with Woody?

Hess was bad

 

Woody/Chrissy are horrible

 

[Matt39]

Punt

[MDL_JET]

10 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Sure but then you have to give Macc credit for absolutely botching his first several drafts and giving bad contracts to Revis, Wilk, Skrine, Fitz etc

I get it you don't like him. He's responsible for it all. Just a little ridiculous to say it like he had no idea what was going on with the whole thing. 

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

lol man you guys really don't wanna give Mac an ounce of credit for that trade huh?? 

Not when his first 5 choices at QB were Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg, Josh McCown and Kirk Cousins.  And especially not when people are pinning that trade on the reason Macc deserves to still have his job.  Have to counterbalance that horrid take with a heavy dose of truth. 

If he had built a halfway decent roster and fell into a QB, I'd be saying "luck is a residue of success".  In this case, it was dumb luck, and that's not a sustainable route to building a perennial contender. 

Yes, the NFL is all about the QB.  Problem is, there are other teams with QB's out there who are doing far better at building around their franchise guy. 

[MDL_JET]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not when his first 5 choices at QB were Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg, Josh McCown and Kirk Cousins.  And especially not when people are pinning that trade on the reason Macc deserves to still have his job.  Have to counterbalance that horrid take with a heavy dose of truth. 

If he had built a halfway decent roster and fell into a QB, I'd be saying "luck is a residue of success".  In this case, it was dumb luck, and that's not a sustainable route to building a perennial contender. 

Yes, the NFL is all about the QB.  Problem is, there are other teams with QB's out there who are doing far better at building around their franchise guy. 

Not for nothing but it's been one year since Darnold. Make it sound like we're fielding Clowney and Hill out there and that's it. It's not that bad, step back from the ledge. Their doing just fine building around him. 

[bitonti]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

Chris can’t change the brand of toilet paper in the MetLife johns without say so from London 

if you can't sell something you aren't really that thing's owner 

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Possibly the GOAT, BB. When it became obvious that either Dolan or Woody was going to be the new owner, he didn't walk, he ran to get the hell out of here. Al Groh, a respected NFL veteran, took the bullet the first year out of loyalty to Parcells. After that, it was a collection of guys that wouldn't be anyone's first call......Herm, Mangini, Rex, Bowles and now Gase. Look at the GM's.....any of those guys in demand?  Connect the dots here, Woody and his management style are kryptonite to good people in NFL circles.

Exactly... I don't think ANY real talent is pumped to work for Woody. REX was, no question because his own Baltimore Ravens passed him over for a DB coach.   

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Not for nothing but it's been one year since Darnold. Make it sound like we're fielding Clowney and Hill out there and that's it. It's not that bad, step back from the ledge. Their doing just fine building around him.  

Oh really?  Any idiot can throw a bunch of money out there in free agency.  The problem with that strategy is that Bell, Osemele and Crowder will all very likely be gone after 2020.  Meanwhile we also need to replace Beachum and possibly Winters on the O-Line.  The only current OL guaranteed to be here in 2021 is Edoga.  And with Robby Anderson probably gone and Crowder almost definitely gone, all we'll have as "weapons" under contract by then will be Enunwa and Herndon.  Macc (or our new GM) has to basically find a whole new offense between now and 2021.  Given his history of drafting, can anyone be confident he'll do that? 

That's not "building".  That's finding band-aids and hoping for the best.  Look beyond the short-term and things look awful. 

[section314]

14 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Exactly... I don't think ANY real talent is pumped to work for Woody. REX was, no question because his own Baltimore Ravens passed him over for a DB coach.   

Exactly. I remember hearing Ozzie on the FAN a few years back, and that question came up. He was as diplomatic as possible, but basically said that there was way too much of a sideshow with Rex to ever have as the guy running the whole thing. Said volumes. And the Ravens have never looked back.

[DonCorleone]

 I would say that they both suck equally. 

[jgb]

36 minutes ago, bitonti said:

if you can't sell something you aren't really that thing's owner 

Good point and the corrollary in business: if you can’t fire someone you are not their boss 

[jgb]

24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Oh really?  Any idiot can throw a bunch of money out there in free agency.  The problem with that strategy is that Bell, Osemele and Crowder will all very likely be gone after 2020.  Meanwhile we also need to replace Beachum and possibly Winters on the O-Line.  The only current OL guaranteed to be here in 2021 is Edoga.  And with Robby Anderson probably gone and Crowder almost definitely gone, all we'll have as "weapons" under contract by then will be Enunwa and Herndon.  Macc (or our new GM) has to basically find a whole new offense between now and 2021.  Given his history of drafting, can anyone be confident he'll do that? 

That's not "building".  That's finding band-aids and hoping for the best.  Look beyond the short-term and things look awful. 

When you draft poorly you are forced to pay poorly.

[Peace Frog]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

They hired Mike Maccagnan, on the advice of "football people", since they were too incompetent to make a hire on their own (before that they used Korn Ferry).  Macc's first 4 QB's were Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg and Josh McCown.  He then offered Kirk Cousins more money than anyone, before his assistant GM made a trade from 6 to 3, where they thought they'd likely end up getting Josh Allen.

But sure, the owners have nothing to do with hiring competent people that lead to getting said QB.  Nothing at all to do with it. 

You understand we were never in a position to draft a QB like Sam in ages, right?

We finally sucked enough in the right year and made a ballsy move to get the right QB. 

They aren’t football people. They rarely if ever stick their noses into football matters that they don’t understand. Kudos for that. And they SPEND MONEY. Maybe not always wisely but who they are told to spend money on.  

If your qualm is they are incompetent because they have t hired the right football people, lump them in with about 3/4 of the owners in the NFL. How often do GMs and FOs turn over? It’s pretty common.

You know who’s a BAD owner?

The Wilpons.  Incompetent, stick their noses in where they shouldn’t AND don’t spend money.

Let’s see how good of and owner Woody/Chris become with Sam. If we’re still floundering in 2-3 years then I may agree with you.

 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

You understand we were never in a position to draft a QB like Sam in ages, right?

Complete falsehood.

In 2016, Macc himself stated we were interested in trading up to # 1 for either Goff or Wentz, but didn't make the move:  https://www.nj.com/jets/2016/04/jets_inquired_about_trading_up_to_no_1_pick_says_m.html

In 2017, we could have taken Watson or Mahomes instead of Jamal Adams.  We passed because Macc still thought Hackenberg was "the guy". 

[southparkcpa]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Complete falsehood.

In 2016, Macc himself stated we were interested in trading up to # 1 for either Goff or Wentz, but didn't make the move:  https://www.nj.com/jets/2016/04/jets_inquired_about_trading_up_to_no_1_pick_says_m.html

In 2017, we could have taken Watson or Mahomes instead of Jamal Adams.  We passed because Macc still thought Hackenberg was "the guy". 

Not to mention Russel Wilson who as accounts go, we had a scout POUNDING the table to draft him. But we are so adept in the 2nd and 3rd rounds....

[Peace Frog]

27 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Complete falsehood.

In 2016, Macc himself stated we were interested in trading up to # 1 for either Goff or Wentz, but didn't make the move:  https://www.nj.com/jets/2016/04/jets_inquired_about_trading_up_to_no_1_pick_says_m.html

In 2017, we could have taken Watson or Mahomes instead of Jamal Adams.  We passed because Macc still thought Hackenberg was "the guy". 

Perfect 20-20 hindsight. 

Well done. 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Perfect 20-20 hindsight. 

Well done. 

So you're saying Goff, Wentz, Watson and Mahomes weren't on the same level as Darnold in terms of level of prospect?

You've made this argument to where you think you win no matter how you look at it. 

[Peace Frog]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So you're saying Goff, Wentz, Watson and Mahomes weren't on the same level as Darnold in terms of prospect evaluation?

You've made this argument to where you think you win no matter how you look at it. 

I’m thinking you should be the GM. 

And no, I don’t think any of those guys were the prospect that Sam was in college. That’s my honest opinion. 

Feel free to disagree with my opinion. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

I’m thinking you should be the GM. 

And no, I don’t think any of those guys were the prospect that Sam was in college. That’s my honest opinion. 

Feel free to disagree with my opinion. 

If you only want to talk foresight, that's not even relevant anyways, since Macc didn't think there was a chance Darnold was going to fall to him.

Cousins was his "Plan A".  His Plan B was taking whatever QB fell to him at 6 (and then 3), even if that meant Josh Allen.

[Peace Frog]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If you only want to talk foresight, that's not even relevant anyways, since Macc didn't think there was a chance Darnold was going to fall to him.

Cousins was his "Plan A".  His Plan B was taking whatever QB fell to him at 6 (and then 3), even if that meant Josh Allen.

His plan B was Baker or Sam. 

I would have been happy either way, although I preferred and still prefer Sam. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Peace Frog said:

His plan B was Baker or Sam. 

I would have been happy either way, although I preferred and still prefer Sam. 

It doesn't matter what his "plan" was.  We were picking 3rd in a 2-QB draft.  Only the Giants saved us from a horrible fate.

[Peace Frog]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It doesn't matter what his "plan" was.  We were picking 3rd in a 2-QB draft.  Only the Giants saved us from a horrible fate.

Pretty sure he knew that when he made the trade.