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Christopher Johnson vs Woody Johnson


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4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Vermeil and fox failed in KC and Chicago, we'll see what Arians can do and we know he never would have come here after we fired his buddy.

Just saying that those were "established" coaches.  What they went on to do at their next stops is irrelevant to the argument at hand.

And I wouldn't say Vermeil "failed" in KC.  He went 44-36 with a Division Title with a decent but not great Trent Green as his QB.  When Green didn't have Vermeil as his HC, he had a 10-18 career record.

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4 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I know your kind. That’s ok, I’ve been there.

I wanted the Jets to lose so Idzik would get dumped. 

It’s a whole new world now with Sam.  

Finally an offensive minded coach.

And a dynamic offensive weapon.

We’ll get there. 

  

I'm rooting hard for Darnold and this team, regardless of what happens with Maccagnan. 

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Just saying that those were "established" coaches.  What they went on to do at their next stops is irrelevant to the argument at hand.

And I wouldn't say Vermeil "failed" in KC.  He went 44-36 with a Division Title with a decent but not great Trent Green as his QB.  When Green didn't have Vermeil as his HC, he had a 10-18 career record.

He didn't win a playoff game, it was a failure.  If we hired vermeil and after five years had a division title and no playoff wins would that be a success?

Green was 4-4 the year after vermeil left and made the playoffs.  In 3 of the 5 years with vermeil he was .500 or worse three of them.  He wound up going 0-6 with 1-15 Miami in 2007, that kind of skews the record a bit.

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm rooting hard for Darnold and this team, regardless of what happens with Maccagnan. 

I would hope we are all rooting for the Jets, I wanted Bowles gone a couple of years ago but I rooted for him to win every week.  

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11 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

NO...   many talented people will not work here. Billicek as one example.

The Johnson's have never paid premium for coach, GM, or Pres. They run the show and the results show for it. Paying for someone established in either role = conceding power, which they wont do. 

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38 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He didn't win a playoff game, it was a failure.  If we hired vermeil and after five years had a division title and no playoff wins would that be a success?

Green was 4-4 the year after vermeil left and made the playoffs.  In 3 of the 5 years with vermeil he was .500 or worse three of them.  He wound up going 0-6 with 1-15 Miami in 2007, that kind of skews the record a bit. 

I see.  So you're telling me because of that, he wasn't an "established" coach?  Because that's what we're talking about here. 

Vermeil would have done much, much more with the roster Parcells left than Herm Edwards did.  That's for sure. 

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9 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The Johnson's have never paid premium for coach, GM, or Pres. They run the show and the results show for it. Paying for someone established in either role = conceding power, which they wont do. 

You do know he offered Parcells a record contract to come back for 2000 then again after groh quit after the 2000 season, right?

Who are the big name coaches and GM's we had an opportunity to get?

By the way, we had the best stretch of Jets football under Woody 2000-2011.

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I see.  So you're telling me because of that, he wasn't an "established" coach?  Because that's what we're talking about here. 

Vermeil would have done much, much more with the roster Parcells left than Herm Edwards did.  That's for sure. 

I didn't say he wasn't established, what are you talking about?  I'm pointing out that even established coaches aren't a guarantee.

In 5 years in KC vermeil missed the playoffs 3 times, Herm made it 1 of 2 and herm won a division title here along with 2 playoff games.

Parcells left a roster with major cap issues that caused 3 HCs to run away from our team.

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3 hours ago, section314 said:

Woody has owned the Jets for 19 years....how much longer until he becomes a "football person?" And if you are incapable of learning on the job, go hire a proven commodity to run the organization like the way it should be, a $3 billion company. Since the Wilpons have owned the Mets, they've won one World Series, and have been to three in total. Woody isn't even in the same sentence as the Wilpons.

This is so much craziness.  Woody ran the team like every other owner.  Football people don't have the billions needed to buy a team.  JJones THINKS he's a football person because he was on a college roster. The Cowboys have been worse than us over Woody's ownership.

Nevermind Woody hasn't been in charge for 3 years now.  One day that will be acknowledged by the fans who blame the owner for everything.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm rooting hard for Darnold and this team, regardless of what happens with Maccagnan. 

I’m also rooting hard that Williams and Polite win co-defensive rookies of the year and Gase is the offensive wizard we’ve been hoping for. 

And maybe the light will have gone on for Mac  

 

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25 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

This is so much craziness.  Woody ran the team like every other owner.  Football people don't have the billions needed to buy a team.  JJones THINKS he's a football person because he was on a college roster. The Cowboys have been worse than us over Woody's ownership.

Nevermind Woody hasn't been in charge for 3 years now.  One day that will be acknowledged by the fans who blame the owner for everything.

The Irsay’s have a Super Bowl win, multiple SB appearances and have been competitive for 2 decades, not because they are football people but because they lucked into having the worst record in football when 2 generational QBs were coming out. 

You think Arthur Blank knows football? Stephen Ross?

Bill Bidwill has owned the Cardinals since 1962 and that team has sucked worse than ours. Is he a football guy or not a football guy?

Some if these posters are in fantasy land.  

 

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3 hours ago, WayneChrebet80 said:

Who cares? They lost, and in one was embarrassed by their cross town rival. 

The Wilpons run the Mets like a mid market team. They are by far the worst owners in town without a doubt. 

The Wilpons are absolutely the worst followed closely by Jim Dolan. 

 

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11 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

I have no issue with the wealthy, many people call me wealthy, some think you are wealthy it's a meter of perspective.  I am passionate about business. I read tons of books on it.  I am a successful CPA and deal with success and failure of business's everyday and first hand I witness the behavior patterns of both. The WORST owners are still wealthy from revenue sharing etc.  I would argue that you or I could have done as well as Woody.  At some point, their success is measured by winning and they can't seem to do that. That requires surrounding yourself with talent.  They don't do that either. They don't attract talent and they clearly aren't respected. You want to defend them. Be my guest but I imagine behind closed doors Woody is not respected by his peers, but he has certain Jets fans who do.

I think you're wrong. Behind closed doors I'm pretty confident his peers speak well of him. More than likely you or I could have done the same as Woody if we had the money to blow. But Woody still did it and that deserves credit. Would you have rather had James Dolan as our owner? A f*cling creep that still operates MSG TAX FREE?

Like I said, I think Woody is a nice, down-to-earth guy. He just makes poor hiring decisions. Leon Hess was apparently one of the nicest men you'd ever want to meet. He also made worse hiring decisions than Woody imo. Do you dislike Leon also?

But all this is my opinion and certainly not fact. The same can be said for your claims.

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18 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

The Wilpons are absolutely the worst followed closely by Jim Dolan. 

 

If Dolan bought the Mets from the Wilpons he would be a modern day Steinbrenner.  He would easily outpay everyone, would have the largest payroll in the MLB, would work out fine because you can easily outspend your mistakes in baseball.  He would say the dumbest things in the world like George, fans would say things like all he wants to do is win.

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27 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

The Irsay’s have a Super Bowl win, multiple SB appearances and have been competitive for 2 decades, not because they are football people but because they lucked into having the worst record in football when 2 generational QBs were coming out. 

You think Arthur Blank knows football? Stephen Ross?

Bill Bidwill has owned the Cardinals since 1962 and that team has sucked worse than ours. Is he a football guy or not a football guy?

Some if these posters are in fantasy land.  

 

The Irsays were the posterboys for poor ownership until they hired Polian and draft Peyton.

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I didn't say he wasn't established, what are you talking about?  I'm pointing out that even established coaches aren't a guarantee.
In 5 years in KC vermeil missed the playoffs 3 times, Herm made it 1 of 2 and herm won a division title here along with 2 playoff games.
Parcells left a roster with major cap issues that caused 3 HCs to run away from our team.


Yes but you changed the argument. We’re talking about whether established coaches would ever come here, not whether they’d be successful.

Your argument is no established coach has ever turned us down. Which is true, but it ignores the possibility that established coaches would never consider this job in the first place.
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1 hour ago, NYJ1 said:

I think you're wrong. Behind closed doors I'm pretty confident his peers speak well of him. More than likely you or I could have done the same as Woody if we had the money to blow. But Woody still did it and that deserves credit. Would you have rather had James Dolan as our owner? A f*cling creep that still operates MSG TAX FREE?

Like I said, I think Woody is a nice, down-to-earth guy. He just makes poor hiring decisions. Leon Hess was apparently one of the nicest men you'd ever want to meet. He also made worse hiring decisions than Woody imo. Do you dislike Leon also?

But all this is my opinion and certainly not fact. The same can be said for your claims.

Fair statement but "Woody did what to deserve credit?"   In my view, he lived off the fumes of a team built by Parcells.  The 2 AFC Champ seasons colors it well but we are well below 500, significantly below since 2011 (8 years).  I simply disagree. I have never heard anyone speak well of him. But as you fairly stated.. we don't know.

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17 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The Johnson's have never paid premium for coach, GM, or Pres. They run the show and the results show for it. Paying for someone established in either role = conceding power, which they wont do. 

I think it’s also no big name coach wants to work for the Johnsons

 

Belichick on that 30 for 30 implies that he got really scared after having his first meeting with Woody he knew this was a sinking ship

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14 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Fair statement but "Woody did what to deserve credit?"   In my view, he lived off the fumes of a team built by Parcells.  The 2 AFC Champ seasons colors it well but we are well below 500, significantly below since 2011 (8 years).  I simply disagree. I have never heard anyone speak well of him. But as you fairly stated.. we don't know.

The Knicks made it to two NBA finals under James Dolan the guy is bashed universally

 

Woody got lucky with Rex for a couple years then started meddling with insisting on trading for Tim Tebow when Rex and Bradway pounded the table for Russell Wilson here we are 9 years later 3 coaches, 3 GMs and 0 playoff appearances

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15 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I think it’s also no big name coach wants to work for the Johnsons

 

Belichick on that 30 for 30 implies that he got really scared after having his first meeting with Woody he knew this was a sinking ship

It was probably the point that Kraft, to his credit, kept hammering home to Belichick, during the recruitment process.

 

16 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

The Irsay’s have a Super Bowl win, multiple SB appearances and have been competitive for 2 decades, not because they are football people but because they lucked into having the worst record in football when 2 generational QBs were coming out. 

You think Arthur Blank knows football? Stephen Ross?

Bill Bidwill has owned the Cardinals since 1962 and that team has sucked worse than ours. Is he a football guy or not a football guy?

Some if these posters are in fantasy land.  

 

One fact that those of us out here in "fantasy land" would like to add......what do 3 of the 4 owners mentioned above all have in common that Woody doesn't?

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Just now, section314 said:

It was probably the point that Kraft, to his credit, kept hammering home to Belichick, during the recruitment process.

 

One fact that those of us out here in "fantasy land" would like to add......what do 3 of the 4 owners mentioned above all have in common that Woody doesn't?

Belichick has the double whammy of interviewing with both Dolan and Woody dumb and dumber

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2 minutes ago, section314 said:

It was probably the point that Kraft, to his credit, kept hammering home to Belichick, during the recruitment process.

 

One fact that those of us out here in "fantasy land" would like to add......what do 3 of the 4 owners mentioned above all have in common that Woody doesn't?

Not having to be in a division with the GOATS?

Edit:  I assume you mean a Super Bowl appearance.

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5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Not having to be in a division with the GOATS?

Edit:  I assume you mean a Super Bowl appearance.

Bingo! Having the presence of mind to finally realize that they need to bring in the right people to get to the goal. Let's leave it at that.

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18 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

The Irsay’s have a Super Bowl win, multiple SB appearances and have been competitive for 2 decades, not because they are football people but because they lucked into having the worst record in football when 2 generational QBs were coming out. 

You think Arthur Blank knows football? Stephen Ross?

Bill Bidwill has owned the Cardinals since 1962 and that team has sucked worse than ours. Is he a football guy or not a football guy?

Some if these posters are in fantasy land.  

 

Cardinals and Falcons?  Yes. Also run poorly just like Jets.    Regardless.  Results don’t lie.   We are well below 500 under Woody.   

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1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

Cardinals and Falcons?  Yes. Also run poorly just like Jets.    Regardless.  Results don’t lie.   We are well below 500 under Woody.   

But the Falcons have been pretty competitive. 

Since they got a franchise QB. 

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4 hours ago, section314 said:

It was probably the point that Kraft, to his credit, kept hammering home to Belichick, during the recruitment process.

 

One fact that those of us out here in "fantasy land" would like to add......what do 3 of the 4 owners mentioned above all have in common that Woody doesn't?

The Colts, Cards and Falcons all got to a SB because they had great QB play. 

The Dolphins have not because they haven’t had a great QB since Marino, their last SB appearance. 

Its not about the owners. 

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2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

The Colts, Cards and Falcons all got to a SB because they had great QB play. 

The Dolphins have not because they haven’t had a great QB since Marino, their last SB appearance.  

Its not about the owners.  

How does a team get the franchise QB?  Describe that process for me please. 

Seems to me that you think that's a very random process, even though there have been several franchises that have had multiple franchise QB's while we've had zero. 

The 49ers had Joe Montana and Steve Young.  The Packers went from Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers.  The Colts had Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck (they also drafted John Elway in '83).  The Cowboys went from Tony Romo to Dak Prescott.  Hell, even the Chargers went from Drew Brees to Phillip Rivers. 

How did they swing that?   Could it be....an organization running properly?

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46 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

If a fan uses the Falcons as a measure of success, well, that’s setting the bar at mediocrity. 

I think you missed my point. 

I don't want to settle for mediocrity but someone mentioned that they’ve recently been to a SB. Owned by a guy who owns The Home Depot—not a football guy. 

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39 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Had we tanked properly in 2007, we'd have gotten Matt Ryan instead of Vernon Gholston. 

And I didn’t even like him coming out of BC. Saw him live a few times and I though he had a weak arm and was a twig. 

He’s been a lot better than I thought. 

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47 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How does a team get the franchise QB?  Describe that process for me please. 

Seems to me that you think that's a very random process, even though there have been several franchises that have had multiple franchise QB's while we've had zero. 

The 49ers had Joe Montana and Steve Young.  The Packers went from Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers.  The Colts had Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck (they also drafted John Elway in '83).  The Cowboys went from Tony Romo to Dak Prescott.  Hell, even the Chargers went from Drew Brees to Phillip Rivers. 

How did they swing that?   Could it be....an organization running properly?

Absolutely,  You can’t suck for 50  years and call it unlucky.  Top teams in all sports are simply run better. It may be small things but I see it in business all the time. Luck is what losers point to when they lose and don’t truly understand why.  

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