Under Construction; How Close are Jets to Completing Rebuild?

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

This is NOT year 5 of a rebuild so please stop saying that. It's obvious to anyone without blind hatred of this GM we are in year 3 and should be expected to make the playoffs. 

In years one and two it was obvious this owner thought we could still make a run with some of the pieces we had in place, he was wrong after that failure we cleaned house of all the old vets and started the rebuild. We got rid of our imbecile HC and replaced him with a young offensive mind and a proven DC. Lets see how our draft pans out and if this team can move forward with a playoff berth.

And, of course, as EVERYONE knows, when you're not actually rebuilding, scouting and drafting well is optional, maybe even frowned upon, so those drafts should just be ignored, unless you have BLIND HATRED OF THIS GM.

[Apache 51]

10 hours ago, SAR I said:

It’s done. We’re a playoff team right now.  From here-in we are merely ‘building’.

SAR I

Yes, now it's about everyone pulling in one direction, chemistry, lil luck and good health.  Not easy, but no excuses.

[Gastineau Lives]

29 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

We need a legitimate #1 WR 




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

24:25:31

No, no we do not. Not sure how a target hog is better than having five guys like Crowder, Bell, Herndon, Enunwa and Anderson. 

At this point it's all on Sam. He has enough to work with.

And he's going to. He takes the next step this year. Top ten QB. Playoff team.

[Skeptable]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

The pro bowl/all pro type players are mostly on defense. Sure, we got Bell, this year, but the constant investment is always defensively, which is the problem given that we also put premium picks into the defense as well. ironically (and unfortuntely) the free agency signings are generally the same as our draft position picks as well, which means that we're picking bad rookies or not developing the rookies, then we have to replace them with high priced free agents. Meanwhile, the offense generally is getting no top talent. No all pro's or pro bowlers. Who was the last all pro offensive player we drafted????

Here's the list of pro bowl/all pro caliber players we got in free agency since Macc has been the GM. 

Free Agents

2019: CJ Mosley, Bell

2018: Trumaine Johnson

2017: Nothing (Terrible Free Agency that season by Macc)

2016: Matt Forte

2015: Darrelle Revis, Antonio Cromartie.

 

As we can see, the best RB's are always someone else's RB that we got from FA, which makes sense given that the Jets never seriously invest in the offense or in the RB position. 

And for the fact that during the 9 defensive players taken before drafting Darnold, 4 of them being defensive backs, it's sad to see that 3 of the high level free agents are defensive backs, which means that our draft didnt pan out. 

 

You asked "how many is enough". It'll be enough when we start drafting all pro's and pro bowlers on the offensive side of the ball so we can actually score points and win games. 

 

Our record is poor because we dont score points. We keep thinking that if we stop the other team from scoring it'll allow us to win games with our poor offense. It has yet to happen because we have no probowl or all pro talent on offense. 

Sam Darnold has that ability, but he has complementary players around him at best, and Bell is going to see 8 in the box for the first time in his career now that he's a Jet. 

The Jets need talent on offense as well, then it will be enough. 

Darnold can be a pro-bowler... Bell is HOF caliber. That is enough to make a difference... throw in better offensive schemes, a slot WR that doesn't drop the ball.... a real blocking TE that can help the OL and has soft hands... And a receiving TE that was top 10 at his position last year as a rookie and didn't play every game... A deep threat WR to stretch the D... This offense can be very good if utilized correctly ... 

[Smashmouth]

6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

And, of course, as EVERYONE knows, when you're not actually rebuilding, scouting and drafting well is optional, maybe even frowned upon, so those drafts should just be ignored, unless you have BLIND HATRED OF THIS GM.

Im well aware of Macc's drafts but FA is a better way to look at the direction of a team if you are adding older seasoned players that just have a few years left in them its obvious you think you can win now so no its not a rebuild. After that you dump all the vets build up the cap and focus on younger players after giving up a bunch of picks to land the franchise QB. Its pretty easy to see whats going on here. Macc's first 2 drafts sucked and the 2 after that were not so great either but I still feel Bowles had a huge influence on those drafts since our Idiot owners think its a good idea to have the GM and HC on the same level.

[section314]

About as close as the new tunnel under the the Hudson River is between NYC and NJ.

[jetstream23]

10 hours ago, The Crimson King said:

Championship teams have a number of all pro candidates and pro bowl players

Not enough of those on the roster yet

Well, we added a couple of guys with multiple Pro Bowls on their resumes, we have our own player who just made his first Pro Bowl (and we have a Pro Bowl alternate from 2 years ago), we have some ascending players who may challenge for a Pro Bowl soon and we just drafted a guy who has Pro Bowl potential......so I think your post, while it may be valid at this very moment, may only have a limited shelf life of 12-24 months.

[Jetsfan80]

24 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Im well aware of Macc's drafts but FA is a better way to look at the direction of a team if you are adding older seasoned players that just have a few years left in them its obvious you think you can win now so no its not a rebuild. After that you dump all the vets build up the cap and focus on younger players after giving up a bunch of picks to land the franchise QB. Its pretty easy to see whats going on here. Macc's first 2 drafts sucked and the 2 after that were not so great either but I still feel Bowles had a huge influence on those drafts since our Idiot owners think its a good idea to have the GM and HC on the same level.

Did Bowles tell Macc to draft ArDarius Stewart, Chad Hansen, and Christian Hackenberg?

And you really think it was a smart decision to go "win now" BEFORE drafting your franchise QB?

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Well, we added a couple of guys with multiple Pro Bowls on their resumes, we have our own player who just made his first Pro Bowl (and we have a Pro Bowl alternate from 2 years ago), we have some ascending players who may challenge for a Pro Bowl soon and we just drafted a guy who has Pro Bowl potential......so I think your post, while it may be valid at this very moment, may only have a limited shelf life of 12-24 months.

Interesting, because Bell, Osemele and Crowder are among the group of players whose shelf lives with the Jets are likely to be only 24 months. 

[ZachEY]

18 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Im well aware of Macc's drafts but FA is a better way to look at the direction of a team if you are adding older seasoned players that just have a few years left in them its obvious you think you can win now so no its not a rebuild. After that you dump all the vets build up the cap and focus on younger players after giving up a bunch of picks to land the franchise QB. Its pretty easy to see whats going on here. Macc's first 2 drafts sucked and the 2 after that were not so great either but I still feel Bowles had a huge influence on those drafts since our Idiot owners think its a good idea to have the GM and HC on the same level.

The labels are largely irrelevant and just words.  Macc's tenure has been a complete failure, save Dave Gettleman's Barkley decision.  And Trumaine Johnson becoming like the 2nd highest paid CB in the league kind of disputes your "dump all the vets" and "focus on young players" part of the definition anyway.

It's convenient to blame Bowles for all of the teams failures.  It ignores that fact that not one player who the Jets have let go of has made a meaningful contribution to the league when with "better coaching," but it is convenient.  I'm super curious how the draft would have been different were he still here?  Would we not have taken the 'consensus BAP can't believe he fell to us' defensive player at lower impact position?  I mean, that seems super familiar?  Would we not have largely ignored the skill positions and the offensive line?  Would we not have failed to trade down, despite announcing our intent weeks before?  Because all of this draft seems about as 'Todd Bowles' a draft as I can recall.

[Bleedin Green]

55 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

This is NOT year 5 of a rebuild so please stop saying that. It's obvious to anyone without blind hatred of this GM we are in year 3 and should be expected to make the playoffs. 

In years one and two it was obvious this owner thought we could still make a run with some of the pieces we had in place, he was wrong after that failure we cleaned house of all the old vets and started the rebuild. We got rid of our imbecile HC and replaced him with a young offensive mind and a proven DC. Lets see how our draft pans out and if this team can move forward with a playoff berth.

So Maccagnan's ongoing incompetence for the past 5 years was actually 2 different sets of incompetence, instead of just 1?  Well that's a relief!

[varjet]

9 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

I don't think they are as close as some think. There is some promise and I think .500 is within reach. Line play on both sides of the ball will be the major factor IMO and it will dictate the success or failure of the team this year. Generate a pass rush and protect Sam. If those things happen the team will excel. If not it's going to be a long season.

To be competitive an NFL needs to be competent at all positions and excellent in several.

The Jets are both excellent and incompetent at several positions.   That to me means that they will be a middle of the pack team that will finish around .500%, no playoffs.  

3 hours ago, kdels62 said:

The rebuild is mostly complete. My problem with Macc is that I don’t think he knows that there isn’t a big red sign that says “team complete proceed to win games.” 

The team this year is good, almost playoff good (depends on Darnold’s improvement) but next year it might not be. We stand to lose Leo, Jenkins, Beachum, Shell, Robby Anderson, McClendon, Lee, Copeland and Luvu. Not all those guys are huge loses but they are depth and good teams need depth.

So we’ll be going into 2020 with $50 Million in Cap space and I’d like to see Macc be proactive about the team’s assets. Extend Robby now, know when to trade or pay Leo, lock up good o-line depth- these are areas that Macc has failed at before and I don’t want to see it again.

With the existing cap space I would be looking to do short extensions for Jenkins, Beachum, Shell, Robbie and Copeland.  At worst they are depth.  Next year is supposedly a weak OL draft.   Next year is the year that the Jets should compete.  Leo and Lee should go, hopefully soon, and Luvu we can play by year.  

At best Leo should take an Eddie Goldman contract now and save us capspace.  

[Villain The Foe]

47 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Darnold can be a pro-bowler... Bell is HOF caliber. That is enough to make a difference... throw in better offensive schemes, a slot WR that doesn't drop the ball.... a real blocking TE that can help the OL and has soft hands... And a receiving TE that was top 10 at his position last year as a rookie and didn't play every game... A deep threat WR to stretch the D... This offense can be very good if utilized correctly ... 

Saying that Darnold "can" be a pro bowler doesnt change the fact that Darnold isnt a pro bowler and is a 2nd year player with tremendous upside but didnt play like a pro bowl caliber player in his rookie season, which was to be expected because he had nothing on offense to help him. You are basically saying that something is "enough" by concluding something that as of now is not true. And to prove why you shouldnt just assume that, the last time the Jets had a pro bowler (not counting Favre's 1 and done year) was Vinny Testaverde in 1998. I couldnt even tell you the last Jets pro bowl QB that the Jets actually drafted. Now im not sh*tting on Darnold, what im doing is making my case on why we must provide more for Darnold if we expect Darnold to be a pro-bowl caliber player. Folks expect Darnold to do the impossible and it's not fair. This front office needs to get talent on the offensive side of the ball and stop the constant neglecting of the offensive side of the ball. 

This is the exact reason why it isnt enough. I can sit here and also say that Robby Anderson, Quincy Enunwa and Chris Herndon can be pro bowler caliber players, it doesnt make it true though. 

We all think that Darnold can be a pro bowler, but generally, QB's need more than complimentary pieces to throw two, unless you think that the running back should also be his #1 target because Bell is a HOF caliber player. 

You need more than a 2nd year QB with upside and a 27 year old freakish RB. It's insane to me how fans think having 2 out of 11 player on offense is enough, but have no problem putting every single resource into the 11 players on defense. 

 

This is the problem with talking to Jets fans sometimes. Everything is in a vacuum. Leveon Bell never had to worry about looking at a defense with 7 or 8 in the box because he always played with legit HOF QB and a top 3 WR in AB. Bell is going from that to a 2nd year QB with tremendous potential that must be realized, a #1 WR that would be a complimentary player on many other teams in Anderson and one of the worst Oline's in the league and we're going into the season with no clue who our Center is and if it's anyone currently on the roster then that just means that we're going into the season with a Center that didnt even beat out Spencer Long. 

 

Perspective my friend. 

[Bleedin Green]

43 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Im well aware of Macc's drafts but FA is a better way to look at the direction of a team if you are adding older seasoned players that just have a few years left in them its obvious you think you can win now so no its not a rebuild. After that you dump all the vets build up the cap and focus on younger players after giving up a bunch of picks to land the franchise QB. Its pretty easy to see whats going on here. Macc's first 2 drafts sucked and the 2 after that were not so great either but I still feel Bowles had a huge influence on those drafts since our Idiot owners think its a good idea to have the GM and HC on the same level.

Ah yes, another classic.  The GM isn't at fault for the failures at his job, because we'll just assume he simply wasn't even doing his own job at all.

[Philc1]

6 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Ah yes, another classic.  The GM isn't at fault for the failures at his job, because we'll just assume he simply wasn't even doing his own job at all.

There are some instances where it is unfair to blame Mac but the constant passes he gets from jets fans and the media Oh My God

[Philc1]

12 minutes ago, varjet said:

To be competitive an NFL needs to be competent at all positions and excellent in several.

The Jets are both excellent and incompetent at several positions.   That to me means that they will be a middle of the pack team that will finish around .500%, no playoffs.  

With the existing cap space I would be looking to do short extensions for Jenkins, Beachum, Shell, Robbie and Copeland.  At worst they are depth.  Next year is supposedly a weak OL draft.   Next year is the year that the Jets should compete.  Leo and Lee should go, hopefully soon, and Luvu we can play by year.  

At best Leo should take an Eddie Goldman contract now and save us capspace.  

I think the jets really need to go hard for a franchise LT next offseason in free agency

 

Guards, RTs are a dime a dozen.  If Shell plays well next year extend him

 

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

No, no we do not. Not sure how a target hog is better than having five guys like Crowder, Bell, Herndon, Enunwa and Anderson. 

At this point it's all on Sam. He has enough to work with.

And he's going to. He takes the next step this year. Top ten QB. Playoff team.

Our WRs aren’t great and we have zero depth

 

Jets should have traded for Antonio Brown when they had the chance

 

[deucebag]

11 hours ago, The Crimson King said:

Championship teams have a number of all pro candidates and pro bowl players

Not enough of those on the roster yet

On offense we should have Le'veon and Sam, on Defense Mosely and Adams and perhaps Williams (one of them at least).  I think 5 pro-bowlers is right up there with the best.

[slats]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

The defense has enough to be competitive.

We need a legitimate #1 WR and two upgraded OL.

They are that close though.

"Legitimate #1 WR," is the most overrated "need" in football. 

What you need is a QB who can read a defense and get the ball to the open guy. The Jets will have five guys on the field in their base, 3-WR set in Anderson, Enunwa, Crowder, Herndon, and Bell, who can all catch the ball anywhere on the field and do something with it. Darnold makes the jump, he has enough pieces in place. 

[Warfish]

The entire question is deeply, fundamentally flawed.

What "rebuild"?

There is no such thing as a "rebuild" in the modern NFL.  Every team is reloading every year, the idea of some multi-year allowance for losing for a GM to "rebuild" is laughable.

That is especially true here, and now.  This GM is what, his fifth season here?  How long do believers in the "rebuild" concept give a GM to do that "rebuild", six years?  Ten?  Oh, right, he "tried to win" those first years, so he gets a pass?

Also, what defines the completion of a rebuild?  Do we need #1 picks at every single position?  Do we need players we all love at every single position?  What is this theoretical "end" to a rebuild?

It's all a crock.  There is no rebuild.  And if there was, it most certainly is "over" for purposes of GM evaluation right here and now.  This team has more than enough key pieces and investment in players to be competitive, IF the decisions made were good decisions.  

The enitre concept of a rebuild is excuse making for the organization and GM.  People here at JN, for example, are ALREADY writing off 2019 as a "lost" losing season with no chance to compete.

Lets be clear, if we're in a GM's fifth year, and third after he supposedly "tried to win", and we're writing off that fifth season as a no chance to win year.....we're not rebuilding.  We just suck at GM and the front office.

Stop making excuses.  Start demanding accountability and results. 

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

This is NOT year 5 of a rebuild so please stop saying that. It's obvious to anyone without blind hatred of this GM we are in year 3 and should be expected to make the playoffs. 

In years one and two it was obvious this owner thought we could still make a run with some of the pieces we had in place, he was wrong after that failure we cleaned house of all the old vets and started the rebuild. We got rid of our imbecile HC and replaced him with a young offensive mind and a proven DC. Lets see how our draft pans out and if this team can move forward with a playoff berth.

Yeah, this 100%. I mean look, I cannot defend Maccagnan for what looks to be absolutely awful drafting for his first 2 years minimum, and pretty much 0 meaningful players, or even useful players coming out of his first two drafts, but that said, you are spot on. I thought it was an asinine decision by the owners, but they were coming off of many down years and wanted to make a quick splash. I think the GM was placating the owner. Still does not excuse the awfulness that was the first two drafts, but this notion that Maccagnan started rebuilding on day 1 is a huge fallacy around here.  

The owners, who have more insight into anything, believed Bowles was the problem and not Maccagnan. Do I trust these owners, hell no. But that is what they thought so they retained Maccagnan and died Bowles. How do we read into that? I guess its however you want. I always thought Maccagnan catered to just about every Bowles whim, and that is why Bowles was always smiling ear to ear in the draft room. So maybe the owners know more than the experts round here do, who knows.

Bottom line is this, if we get competent coaching, that should amount to 3-4 more wins by itself. We lost 3-4 games last year that we had the game won if not for atrocious coaching. If that coaching this year is competent, and Darnold can progress, that can easily be worth another 1-2 games as well. Throw in Bell, Mosley, QW, the new guard, the new slot receiver, this team really should be competing for a playoff spot this year. If they are, everyone should really pipe down on their anti-maccagnan rhetoric, and this is coming from someone who wanted him out prior to the year. 

 

[Philc1]

9 minutes ago, slats said:

"Legitimate #1 WR," is the most overrated "need" in football. 

What you need is a QB who can read a defense and get the ball to the open guy. The Jets will have five guys on the field in their base, 3-WR set in Anderson, Enunwa, Crowder, Herndon, and Bell, who can all catch the ball anywhere on the field and do something with it. Darnold makes the jump, he has enough pieces in place. 

Julio Jones, Victor Cruz, Demariyus Thomas all recently won Super Bowls

 

But yes if you have the GOAT Brady at qb you don’t need a true #1 wr

 

[section314]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Julio Jones, Victor Cruz, Demariyus Thomas all recently won Super Bowls

Fact check.?

[JustInFudge]

39 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So Maccagnan's ongoing incompetence for the past 5 years was actually 2 different sets of incompetence, instead of just 1?  Well that's a relief!

 

33 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Ah yes, another classic.  The GM isn't at fault for the failures at his job, because we'll just assume he simply wasn't even doing his own job at all.

My favorite parts of the "first 2 years dont count" argument are as follows:

- It was Todd, not Mac.  So, what was Mac doing this entire untill Todd was fired? 

- We dumped all the Vets after it didnt work.  Oh really?  Because I'm pretty sure 40 year old Josh McCown was the starting QB, handing off to Matt Forte and Bilal Powell, throwing to guys like Jeremy Kerley, ASJ, Jermaine Kearse while trading for Demario Davis and signing Steve McLendon, Mo Clairborne, Kelvin Beachum and Kon Ealy.  

- The same year they signed McCown, they passed on 2 franchise caliber QB's in Watson and Mahomes because that's what teams do in the "first year" of their rebuild. 

[Jetsfan80]

Macc's tenure here is like the original Dunder Mifflin website.  Never-ending construction. 

 

[bealeb319]

Center, cb2, wr1 and a metric f÷#× ton of discipline from serious contention?

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

My favorite parts of the "first 2 years dont count" argument are as follows:

- It was Todd, not Mac.  So, what was Mac doing this entire untill Todd was fired? 

- We dumped all the Vets after it didnt work.  Oh really?  Because I'm pretty sure 40 year old Josh McCown was the starting QB, handing off to Matt Forte and Bilal Powell, throwing to guys like Jeremy Kerley, ASJ, Jermaine Kearse while trading for Demario Davis and signing Steve McLendon, Mo Clairborne, Kelvin Beachum and Kon Ealy.  

- The same year that signed McCown, they passed on 2 franchise caliber QB's in Watson and Mahomes because that's what teams do in the "first year" of their rebuild.  

 

No no no that was the Christian Hackenberg rebuild.  Since by JN rule you really need 3 years to evaluate whether a player is a bust or not, it was actually a point in Macc's favor that he moved on from Hackenberg after 2.  Very forward-thinking.  Only THEN could we begin the REAL rebuild.

[Jetsfan80]

21 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Yeah, this 100%. I mean look, I cannot defend Maccagnan for what looks to be absolutely awful drafting for his first 2 years minimum, and pretty much 0 meaningful players, or even useful players coming out of his first two drafts, but that said, you are spot on. I thought it was an asinine decision by the owners, but they were coming off of many down years and wanted to make a quick splash. I think the GM was placating the owner. Still does not excuse the awfulness that was the first two drafts, but this notion that Maccagnan started rebuilding on day 1 is a huge fallacy around here.  

The owners, who have more insight into anything, believed Bowles was the problem and not Maccagnan. Do I trust these owners, hell no. But that is what they thought so they retained Maccagnan and died Bowles. How do we read into that? I guess its however you want. I always thought Maccagnan catered to just about every Bowles whim, and that is why Bowles was always smiling ear to ear in the draft room. So maybe the owners know more than the experts round here do, who knows.

Bottom line is this, if we get competent coaching, that should amount to 3-4 more wins by itself. We lost 3-4 games last year that we had the game won if not for atrocious coaching. If that coaching this year is competent, and Darnold can progress, that can easily be worth another 1-2 games as well. Throw in Bell, Mosley, QW, the new guard, the new slot receiver, this team really should be competing for a playoff spot this year. If they are, everyone should really pipe down on their anti-maccagnan rhetoric, and this is coming from someone who wanted him out prior to the year.  

  

 

I guess the owners completely ignored the part where, since 2015, the Jets are the worst team in the league in the category of draft picks who are out of the league, a stat which completely exonerates Todd Bowles for our drafting failures. 

Even if you could argue that Bowles had a major say in a lot of those draft picks, the picks themselves fall on Macc's shoulders, because that's the GM's job:  To take input from the HC and decide whether or not to reject it. 

And lets say Gase and Gregg Williams really account for +3 wins.  That means if they were here from 2016-18, our W-L records would have been 8-8, 8-8, and 7-9 the last 3 years.  Is that good enough to deserve to keep your job?

[CTM]

37 minutes ago, slats said:

"Legitimate #1 WR," is the most overrated "need" in football. 

What you need is a QB who can read a defense and get the ball to the open guy. The Jets will have five guys on the field in their base, 3-WR set in Anderson, Enunwa, Crowder, Herndon, and Bell, who can all catch the ball anywhere on the field and do something with it. Darnold makes the jump, he has enough pieces in place. 

100% and if he does and we stay healthy we make the playoffs. That's just the reality 

[varjet]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And lets say Gase and Gregg Williams really account for +3 wins.  That means if they were here from 2016-18, our W-L records would have been 8-8, 8-8, and 7-9 the last 3 years.  Is that good enough to deserve to keep your job?

I actually believe that, if Gase and Williams were the coaches from 2016-2018, that is about what their records would have been.  

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

I thought it was going Ok until this draft (allowing grace period for Fitz/Marshall false hope) - now it really depends if QW works with Leo or replaces him in Williams defense, and the health and stability of the rest of the draft picks

IMHO - Mac did not help Sam as much as needed considering the investment to move up to get him

 

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, varjet said:

I actually believe that, if Gase and Williams were the coaches from 2016-2018, that is about what their records would have been.  

So we'd be 23-25 in 3 years with competent coaching.  Killer job Macc!

[14 in Green]

27 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

I thought it was going Ok until this draft (allowing grace period for Fitz/Marshall false hope) - now it really depends if QW works with Leo or replaces him in Williams defense, and the health and stability of rest of the draft picks

IMHO - Mac did not help Sam as much as needed considering the investment to move up to get him

 

As is often said here, its all about Darnold. He got plenty of help this offseason. An Offensive minded HC. By all accounts an excellent OL coach. Leveon Bell, Osemele, and Crowder amongst others.

At this point its up to Darnold to take that step forward in his second year that good young QBs do. I'm hoping we repeat the Ram's result when they fired Fischer, hired an offensive HC (McVay) and Goff took that next big step.

The training wheels are off. I've listened to those who proclaim this kid a generational superstar waiting to happen. So many here are convinced "they saw it".  I wanted to see what you saw, but I can't say I did. I saw a kid who struggled, then showed really nice progress for 3 games. Darnold definitely has the chance to become a top QB and long time NFL starter. Now's the time for us to stop talking about "seeing what we saw" and HIM to make it to happen.

[NoBowles]

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I guess the owners completely ignored the part where, since 2015, the Jets are the worst team in the league in the category of draft picks who are out of the league, a stat which completely exonerates Todd Bowles for our drafting failures. 

Even if you could argue that Bowles had a major say in a lot of those draft picks, the picks themselves fall on Macc's shoulders, because that's the GM's job:  To take input from the HC and decide whether or not to reject it. 

And lets say Gase and Gregg Williams really account for +3 wins.  That means if they were here from 2016-18, our W-L records would have been 8-8, 8-8, and 7-9 the last 3 years.  Is that good enough to deserve to keep your job?

Not sure why you are arguing some of the exact points I made? I clearly stated that I thought Maccagnan should have been fired at least one year ago, in, in fact, I was calling for both Bowles and Maccagnan to be fired before they had a chance to pick their QB.

Saying that the owner mandated the quick turnaround <> saying the GM is good. You can say the owner mandated the quick turnaround, and say the GM is bad, as I did.

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Saying that Darnold "can" be a pro bowler doesnt change the fact that Darnold isnt a pro bowler and is a 2nd year player with tremendous upside but didnt play like a pro bowl caliber player in his rookie season, which was to be expected because he had nothing on offense to help him. You are basically saying that something is "enough" by concluding something that as of now is not true. And to prove why you shouldnt just assume that, the last time the Jets had a pro bowler (not counting Favre's 1 and done year) was Vinny Testaverde in 1998. I couldnt even tell you the last Jets pro bowl QB that the Jets actually drafted. Now im not sh*tting on Darnold, what im doing is making my case on why we must provide more for Darnold if we expect Darnold to be a pro-bowl caliber player. Folks expect Darnold to do the impossible and it's not fair. This front office needs to get talent on the offensive side of the ball and stop the constant neglecting of the offensive side of the ball. 

This is the exact reason why it isnt enough. I can sit here and also say that Robby Anderson, Quincy Enunwa and Chris Herndon can be pro bowler caliber players, it doesnt make it true though. 

We all think that Darnold can be a pro bowler, but generally, QB's need more than complimentary pieces to throw two, unless you think that the running back should also be his #1 target because Bell is a HOF caliber player. 

You need more than a 2nd year QB with upside and a 27 year old freakish RB. It's insane to me how fans think having 2 out of 11 player on offense is enough, but have no problem putting every single resource into the 11 players on defense. 

 

This is the problem with talking to Jets fans sometimes. Everything is in a vacuum. Leveon Bell never had to worry about looking at a defense with 7 or 8 in the box because he always played with legit HOF QB and a top 3 WR in AB. Bell is going from that to a 2nd year QB with tremendous potential that must be realized, a #1 WR that would be a complimentary player on many other teams in Anderson and one of the worst Oline's in the league and we're going into the season with no clue who our Center is and if it's anyone currently on the roster then that just means that we're going into the season with a Center that didnt even beat out Spencer Long. 

 

Perspective my friend. 

Crowder is an improvement (Is he better then Kearse... yes upgrade) ... Osmele is an improvement (Better then Carpenter, absolutely)... Bell is a massive upgrade... Wesco will be better then Tomlinson... Gase is an improvement... What you are failing to see is that they have improved at OL, WR, RB, and TE... we can debate on how much they improved... but its a fact that they have improved at each position. The Jets were close on a lot of games last year and had some others get away from them in the 4th... 

 

I think that the Defense will improve with Mosley running the show