Jets QB Sam Darnold has weapons,but needs another outside WR

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Barring injury, the Jets have plenty of people to catch the ball this year.  All of those bemoaning the wide receiver group fail to recognize the number of catches that LeVeon Bell is going to need.  Based on the needs of this group, there may not be enough balls to go around.    

The following is a list of the top receivers in the NFL 2018.  The majority are perceived #1 Wide Receivers.  Let's examine how many of them played on winning football teams in the year 2018.  The truth of the matter is that of the 12 listed here, only five played on teams that made it to the playoffs last season.

Out of the top twenty receivers in the league, a total of 9, less than half, made the playoffs.  Many of these 9 played for the same team.  In essence, the presence of a de facto #1 wide receiver on an offense is over rated.  More credence is to be paid to the system, and it's successes or failures. That's the important thing, the system, and not some  "shiny new penny".

 PASSING RUSHING RECEIVING KICKING PUNTING RETURNING DEFENSE SCORING YARDAGEOFFENSIVE LINE

RECEIVING	GP	REC	YDS	AVG	YDS/G	YAC	TD	LNG	BIG	100+	TGT	DROP	PCT	FUM	FUML	1ST	PCT
1 Jones, Julio ATL	16	113	1677	14.8	104.8	448	8	58	0	0	170	9	-	0	0	0	-
2 Hopkins, DeAndre HOU	16	115	1572	13.7	98.3	387	11	49	0	0	163	2	-	0	0	0	-
3 Evans, Mike TB	16	86	1524	17.7	95.3	282	8	72	0	0	138	7	-	0	0	0	-
4 Hill, Tyreek KC	16	87	1479	17.0	92.4	573	12	75	0	0	137	6	-	0	0	0	-
5 Smith-Schuster, JuJu PIT	16	111	1426	12.8	89.1	648	7	97	0	0	166	6	-	0	0	0	-
6 Thomas, Michael NO	16	125	1405	11.2	87.8	514	9	72	0	0	147	3	-	0	0	0	-
7 Adams, Davante GB	15	111	1386	12.5	92.4	475	13	57	0	0	169	5	-	0	0	0	-
8 Kittle, George SF	16	88	1377	15.6	86.1	870	5	85	0	0	136	5	-	0	0	0	-
9 Thielen, Adam MIN	16	113	1373	12.2	85.8	416	9	68	0	0	153	3	-	0	0	0	-
10 Kelce, Travis KC	16	103	1336	13.0	83.5	569	10	43	0	0	150	7	-	0	0	0	-
11 Brown, Antonio OAK	15	104	1297	12.5	86.5	485	15	78	0	0	168	3	-	0	0	0	-
12 Hilton, T.Y. IND	14	76	1270	16.7	90.7	467	6	68	0	0	120	4	-	0	0	0	-

 

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Bell is not a wr.  Jets fans should stop acting like he’s going to replacate his exact stats from Pittsburgh because we don’t have Roethousberger and Antonio constantly putting teams in the dime

 

I’m hoping for 1,000 yards rushing and 500 yards receiveing which is still good but not what he did with the Steelers 

 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Bell is not a wr.  Jets fans should stop acting like he’s going to replacate his exact stats from Pittsburgh because we don’t have Roethousberger and Antonio constantly putting teams in the dime

 

I’m hoping for 1,000 yards rushing and 500 yards receiveing which is still good but not what he did with the Steelers 

 

Thanks for the positional update on LeVeon Bell, Phil.  What difference does that make?  You yourself attribute 500 yards receiving to Bell for the upcoming season.  I think that is a respectable estimate.  The point was, and is, that a de facto, #1 Wide Receiver will do little to advance this offense.  It is not Gase' style, we have Anderson to go "over the top" and have a plethora of short range and intermediate weapons, that fit this offense.

Do the math.  Project yardage and catches for Bell, Crowder, Anderson, Enunwa, Herndon and see what you come up with.  Add to that any contribution from Burnett, Wesco, Leggett, Henderson, Montgomery, Cannon,  and any other UDFA or roster players that they have added and tell me what you come up with.  Any structural problem with the construction of this roster is not the absence of a #1 Wideout.  Sorry.

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Thanks for the positional update on LeVeon Bell, Phil.  What difference does that make?  You yourself attribute 500 yards receiving to Bell for the upcoming season.  I think that is a respectable estimate.  The point was, and is, that a de facto, #1 Wide Receiver will do little to advance this offense.  It is not Gase' style, we have Anderson to go "over the top" and have a plethora of short range and intermediate weapons, that fit this offense.

Do the math.  Project yardage and catches for Bell, Crowder, Anderson, Enunwa, Herndon and see what you come up with.  Add to that any contribution from Burnett, Wesco, Leggett, Henderson, Montgomery, Cannon,  and any other UDFA or roster players that they have added and tell me what you come up with.  Any structural problem with the construction of this roster is not the absence of a #1 Wideout.  Sorry.

We don’t have a legit #2 wr let alone a legit #1

 

And in Mac’s defense it was a crappy wr market in free agency and there were no good wrs worthy of a top pick in the draft but fact remains our WRs are not good

[RobR]

24 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Barring injury

I stopped reading at this point, your first two words. 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

Just now, Philc1 said:

We don’t have a legit #2 wr let alone a legit #1

For this offensive philosophy, with these players, this quarterback, and this running back, we have plenty.  Like I said, do the math.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

3 minutes ago, RobR said:

I stopped reading at this point, your first two words. 

Poor.  Quinnen Williams says hi.

Who do you suggest they "missed out" on, and at who's expense?

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

For this offensive philosophy, with these players, this quarterback, and this running back, we have plenty.  Like I said, do the math.

Ok and the math says we have no depth at wr, Q is injury prone and Robby is an at best ok #2 who would not start on a lot of nfl teams

 

 

 

[RobR]

1 minute ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Quinnen Williams says hi.

I hope he kills it because he's a Jet now. Doesn't change the fact you think our WR group is respectable and you're living in a fantasy land hoping for no injuries. Every single young WR we have on our roster has missed games in the past due to injuries.....some very lengthy.

 

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Ok and the math says we have no depth at wr, Q is injury prone and Robby is an at best ok #2 who would not start on a lot of nfl teams

 

 

 

That's lazy Phil.  Total up catches, yards and % of plays from scrimmage, and then get back to me.  I know you can do it.  You can do better than the "canned" responses you're throwing up at the wall here.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

1 minute ago, RobR said:

I hope he kills it because he's a Jet now. Doesn't change the fact you think our WR group is respectable and you're living in a fantasy land hoping for no injuries. Every single young WR we have on our roster has missed games in the past due to injuries.....some very lengthy.

 

Did I say  "no injuries"?  Those were the first two words of my post.  Welcome to the NFL.

We do have some depth with Burnett and some of the UDFA prospects they brought in. I'm not pining for any "missed opportunities" in free agency, and the few that we missed on in the draft, were not earth shattering either.  We only had six draft picks.

  There will also be a ton of cuts and waiver claims going into the season. We still have more cap space than most teams.

  This is far from a finished product.  Which teams have finished rosters at this juncture?  Answer.  No one. The fact of the matter is, that a few months ago our roster consisted of 30 players.  Today we have a reasonable representation of a somewhat competitive football team.  That in an of itself is a major improvement.  That's no fantasy land, that is a reality.

Nice to hear you say that about Quinnen Williams.  That says a lot.  Respect.

[SpartanJet]

4 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

  There will also be a ton of cuts and waiver claims going into the season. We still have more cap space than most teams.

 

Is that you Mike Tannenbaum?  The old second draft meme never dies around here.  Cuts and waiver claims=other teams trash.  Sure it works in a pinch but a better strategy is drafting your own and maybe just maybe pass on that DT that is supposedly "The best player in the draft" that nobody wanted to trade up for.

[RobR]

4 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Did I say  "no injuries"?  Those were the first two words of my post.  Welcome to the NFL.

We do have some depth with Burnett and some of the UDFA prospects they brought in. I'm not pining for any "missed opportunities" in free agency, and the few that we missed on in the draft, were not earth shattering either.  We only had six draft picks.

  There will also be a ton of cuts and waiver claims going into the season. We still have more cap space than most teams.

  This is far from a finished product.  Which teams have finished rosters at this juncture?  Answer.  No one. The fact of the matter is, that a few months ago our roster consisted of 30 players.  Today we have a reasonable representation of a somewhat competitive football team.  That in an of itself is a major improvement.  That's no fantasy land, that is a reality.

Nice to hear you say that about Quinnen Williams.  That says a lot.  Respect.

You said "barring injuries" to start your post, not much different from no injuries when describing our depth. I only pointed out that every single WR on our roster has missed time due to injuries. Bell, Crowder, Enunwa, and Anderson have all missed time and I'm sure several of them will miss time this year.

I would also say this a 95% finished product. Who do you propose we add before the regular season that will be worth anything? Are we really counting on Bellamy?

[14 in Green]

19 minutes ago, SpartanJet said:

Is that you Mike Tannenbaum?  The old second draft meme never dies around here.  Cuts and waiver claims=other teams trash.  Sure it works in a pinch but a better strategy is drafting your own and maybe just maybe pass on that DT that is supposedly "The best player in the draft" that nobody wanted to trade up for.

Ok so who were you taking at #3? Metcalf? LOL

Please don’t bring up the trade down thing. It wasn’t happening once Arizona took Murray. Don’t bring up the guys the Jets drafted at WR in recent drafts and cut either. We’re talking about the WR group that is here now.

The negativity here is unreal. No matter what the subject of a thread is the usual group of Sad Sacks (not you, but you know the ones I mean) always pop up. 

How realistic is it to expect any team to be loaded at every single position? If you can’t look at this roster and see it’s been upgraded, you’re either not looking, or not being fair.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

8 minutes ago, SpartanJet said:

Is that you Mike Tannenbaum?  The old second draft meme never dies around here.  Cuts and waiver claims=other teams trash.  Sure it works in a pinch but a better strategy is drafting your own and maybe just maybe pass on that DT that is supposedly "The best player in the draft" that nobody wanted to trade up for.

Like I said, we had six draft picks.  I guess that you're from the DK Metcalf at #3 crowd.  Shame.  We got ourselves a great player with that pick and you're miserable over it?  Stop with the DT talk.  He's much more than that.

The first wide receiver came off the board with the 25th draft pick.  The second with the 32nd pick.  Please explain to me how that possibly fit into the New York Jets draft strategy, {The Spartan Jet draft} in the 2019 draft?

Turns out that nobody wanted  "to trade up for" anybody in this year's draft.  At the top anyway.  That's not the Jet's fault.  That's just the way it shook out this year. Blame Justin Herbert.  That might have changed everything.

If you're filling out a roster, salary dumps and "other teams" trash is not the end of the world.  Lots of young unproven players will be "last cuts" too.  It happens every year.  That's what we're looking at.  For this year, at least, it will have to do.  Can't blame the organization this time.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Ok so who were you taking at #3? Metcalf? LOL

Please don’t bring up the trade down thing. It wasn’t happening once Arizona took Murray. Don’t bring up the guys the Jets drafted at WR in recent drafts and cut either. We’re talking about the WR group that is here now.

The negativity here is unreal. No matter what the subject of a thread is the usual group of Sad Sacks (not you, but you know the ones I mean) always pop up. 

How realistic is it to expect any team to be loaded at every single position? If you can’t look at this roster and see it’s been upgraded, you’re either not looking, or not being fair.

Stop stealing my posts.  The Metcalf line was mine.?

[14 in Green]

13 minutes ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

Stop stealing my posts.  The Metcalf line was mine.?

 All you had to do was ask for it. I was done with it 5 minutes before you needed it. ?

[Jet Nut]

51 minutes ago, SpartanJet said:

Is that you Mike Tannenbaum?  The old second draft meme never dies around here.  Cuts and waiver claims=other teams trash.  Sure it works in a pinch but a better strategy is drafting your own and maybe just maybe pass on that DT that is supposedly "The best player in the draft" that nobody wanted to trade up for.

This makes no sense.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

58 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

 All you had to do was ask for it. I was done with it 5 minutes before you needed it. ?

I got stuck.  Research.  Had to look up Justin Herbert.  Forgot his name.  Cost me five minutes.  You posted four minutes before me.  You win.?

[fullblast]

5 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Everything will fall squarely on Sam’s shoulders. A great QB elevates everyone’s play. Even a guy like Charron Peake can contribute to the cause.

Let’s hope Sam can become “the guy”

I'm sorry, but this is a recipe for failure. Unfortunately it's what I've come to expect from this team. Cimini is right, our receivers aren't good enough.

[T0mShane]

8 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

How realistic is it to expect any team to be loaded at every single position? 

Describe a position group where the Jets are “loaded.”

[jack48]

12 hours ago, rangerous said:

imo this is a little overblear.  Anown.  darnold will have 300 or so completions.  which receiver, including bell and herndon, has caught more than 75 balls in a season?  bell caught as many as 85. anderson caught as many as 63. crowder caught as many as 66. enunwa as many as 58. herndon had 39.  that's a total of 311 between those guys.  this also ignores the 24 completions to burnett and leggett and the 18 caught by mcguire.  it all depends on how much gase wants to stretch the field.

herndon will catch a ton this year.  And Robbie should get more.  He did not hook up well with Sam until later last season

[section314]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Describe a position group where the Jets are “loaded.”

Incompetent ownership/administration?

[jack48]

13 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Everything they poured into getting Darnold last year, all the resources they had for this offseason, and the quarterback doesn't have a #1 or a center. Oy.

As QBs get better, so do their recievers.  It seems odd, but that is the way it is.  I guess receivers can make a QB better in some cases.  But a high level QB (read Brady. e.g.) can raise the level of his wideouts.  Now, that does not mean I would not like a Green or a Julio Jones.......

[JetFaninMI]

11 hours ago, RobR said:

I understand your premise but there has to be some talent in these players in the first place.  The fact that Mac took receivers in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round and they are all out of the league proves that the underlying talent must be there. The fact that no team could make anything out of those players illustrates what crap our coaches have had to work with for the WR position.

What it really points out is that Macc really sucks at drafting WR's. You prove this point yourself in your own post by noting that none of those Macc drafted players caught on any place else. I'm not defending the previous coaching staff by any means just pointing out that the blame went all the way to the top and Macc should have been shown the door along with that coaching staff.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

Sam is fortunate after looking at the core group the other young QBs have to target in the division. So guys, it could be worse.

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, joenamathwouldn'tcry said:

That's lazy Phil.  Total up catches, yards and % of plays from scrimmage, and then get back to me.  I know you can do it.  You can do better than the "canned" responses you're throwing up at the wall here.

It’s lazy to state the completely obvious that Q is a very injury prone player and Robby has never cracked 1,000 yards receiving despite being a full time starter on a team with no other real options in the passing game?

[Philc1]

34 minutes ago, jack48 said:

herndon will catch a ton this year.  And Robbie should get more.  He did not hook up well with Sam until later last season

I wouldn’t be shocked if Herndon led the team in receiving even with the 2 game suspension 

[Philc1]

18 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

What it really points out is that Macc really sucks at drafting WR's. You prove this point yourself in your own post by noting that none of those Macc drafted players caught on any place else. I'm not defending the previous coaching staff by any means just pointing out that the blame went all the way to the top and Macc should have been shown the door along with that coaching staff.

Devin Smith, Ardarius Stewart, Chad Hansen - those 3 duds killed us and we are stuck with a below average wr corps

[JustInFudge]

Anderson, Enunwa, Crowder, Herndon, Bell, Montgomery, Wesco.  Should be plenty of options for Sam.  It would be nice to have a #1 but lots of teams do just fine without one.  It's all about the QB.  

WR next year is a must in the draft.  It's loaded. 

 

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Anderson, Enunwa, Crowder, Herndon, Bell, Montgomery, Wesco.  Should be plenty of options for Sam.  It would be nice to have a #1 but lots of teams do just fine without one.  It's all about the QB.  

WR next year is a must in the draft.  It's loaded. 

 

Also let’s see what happens with Julio Jones next year

[RoadFan]

Adam Gase's system appears to me to be route combinations that set up space for creating YAC.  At least that is what I saw in Denver and Miami.  

I understand why many feel it is necessary to have a player that can win 50/50 balls.  But a player able to also separate, the elite "#1," is really rare.  They are a luxury... not a requirement.

As a group; the receivers, TE, and RB the Jets currently have aren't superb... but they are a quality bunch and seem to fit Gase's system pretty well...

[New York Mick]

11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

It’s actually the other way around

If the oline doesn’t give the WRs enough time to run their routes they won’t get open. 

[jack48]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I wouldn’t be shocked if Herndon led the team in receiving even with the 2 game suspension 

Did he get 2?  I missed that.

[BigRy56]

I think this WR group is much better than given credit for. Sure, we don't have a DeAndre Hopkins leading the offense, but overall as a unit our WRs are very solid

[Jetsfan80]

I like the receiving group, but we're 1 injury away from it looking very pedestrian.  2 injuries away from it being really bad.  And we've got several guys who aren't exactly iron horses. 

We brought in Gase to help make the entire offense look better.  Hopefully those who have been talking him up will be proven correct about that.