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Cimini: Lee a scheme fit on Jags due to Smith’s absence


Team archer

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I think there will be a market for Lee at some point this offseason.  Perhaps the Jags are the right trade partner.  But I'm fine with the Jets holding the line on compensation and not letting Lee go for something like a 5th or 6th rounder.  He's a NFL starter....even if he's not a great one.  I would probably take a 4th for him.

But bigger question, would you try for a major trade here and make a run at CB Jalen Ramsey?  I don't know if a 2nd Round pick in 2020 + Darron Lee would get it done (likely not) but CB is the remaining big need on this Defense.

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I did not realize that the Jaguars are playing a 4-3....and picked Allen....like the Vikings picked Barr. 

Couldn’t the Jags put together a 3-4 defense with Allen, Ngugue (sp), Jack, someone else...Lee?

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1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

I think there will be a market for Lee at some point this offseason.  Perhaps the Jags are the right trade partner.  But I'm fine with the Jets holding the line on compensation and not letting Lee go for something like a 5th or 6th rounder.  He's a NFL starter....even if he's not a great one.  I would probably take a 4th for him.

But bigger question, would you try to for a major trade here and make a run at CB Jalen Ramsey?  I don't know if a 2nd Round pick in 2020 + Darron Lee would get it done (likely not) but CB is the remaining big need on this Defense.

Im not even sure the jags are even considering it. I mean do they dislike Jalen? Hes a elite young corner and they dont grow on trees.

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Lee has some good traits, fast and long, but I’ve never seen an inside line backer ever be so scared of contact.  He doesn’t want to mess up his pretty face. I’m sure that Gregg Williams absolutely hates this guy after watching the tape.

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I would hate to continue to use our prime resources on defense but Ramsey is an elite player at a premium position. Those guys don’t hit FA and get drafted in the 1st round. He also hasn’t turned 25 yet. 

I would trade our 2020 1st and Lee for Ramsey and their 2020 4th.

That leaves Center as the only glaring whole. WR and Edge are TBD as well. Those might be areas of need. 

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Lee definitely has trade value. That's been debated here quite a bit, but it's really a ridiculous argument. Lee was a really BAD player for the Jets. He was a poor fit for the 3-4 hybrid defense toilet ran. But that certainly doesn't mean he was useless? That's people that are just pissed with his arrogance in light of his embarrassing play. I understand. 

However, there are also posters here that think he should be kept and will play under Williams? I find that claim to be very risky, if not preposterous. Lee will not get anywhere near the amount of play those posters think he will. The Jets just paid BIG bucks for CJ Moseley. They will play him as often as possible. 

There's also posters that think holding on to him could possibly increase his trade value. I suppose that's possible, but it would have to be a team that's desperate to find LB on the fly? Like they're competing for a SB and just lost a very important cog in their defense. I think more than likely as the season wears on his trade value will decrease more and more. They know he'll be cut after this season anyway.

So honestly I think they should be shopping him right now. Don't mess around and do not go into the regular season with him on your roster. Make a deal before the regular season to get a player in return that addresses a position of need. That's the best approach imo.

My personal belief tells me the Jets could get a 4th rounder for him. If the Jets hold on to him hoping they can get a 3rd rounder for him in a compensatory pick? That's quite frankly absurd. There's no way he'd play enough to get a 3rd rounder, not with Moseley on the team.

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29 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Lee has some good traits, fast and long, but I’ve never seen an inside line backer ever be so scared of contact.  He doesn’t want to mess up his pretty face. I’m sure that Gregg Williams absolutely hates this guy after watching the tape.

That's probably the most damning thing about him. A linebacker that is afraid of contact is like a plane that won't fly. If you trade for him, you'd be throwing money right in the toilet. The bottom line is his play is comparable with that of a 5th rounder. He was way, way, way overdrafted.

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1 hour ago, varjet said:

I did not realize that the Jaguars are playing a 4-3....and picked Allen....like the Vikings picked Barr. 

Couldn’t the Jags put together a 3-4 defense with Allen, Ngugue (sp), Jack, someone else...Lee?

Allen is an easy for a 3-4 and he can still play well in a 4-3, the rest of the players you mentioned including Lee,(Jack and the DE that starts with Ng) all are prototypical 4-3 players. 

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51 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Lee has some good traits, fast and long, but I’ve never seen an inside line backer ever be so scared of contact.  He doesn’t want to mess up his pretty face. I’m sure that Gregg Williams absolutely hates this guy after watching the tape.

Lee doesn't strike me as the type of player Williams wants on his defense, but I for certain know that Williams also knows not to send Lee to take on guards and other linemen like he was Bart Scott.

It is mind boggling how you draft a prototypical weakside Lber for a 4-3, stick him inside in a 3-4 and tell him to clog the lanes against guards. Let Lee play off the ball and he would be much more effective, will he ever be worth the 20th overall pick? Probably not but Bowles has misused the sh*t out of him. Could have at least blitzed him from time to time with him 4.4 speed.

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2 hours ago, David Harris said:

Lee has some good traits, fast and long, but I’ve never seen an inside line backer ever be so scared of contact.  He doesn’t want to mess up his pretty face. I’m sure that Gregg Williams absolutely hates this guy after watching the tape.

Did you just use the words 'Lee' and 'long' in the same sentence?  

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Trade is the obvious route with Lee.

But after spending years bagging Bowles and Rodgers defense, I'd like to see if Lee was just a bad fit with them or they didn't coach him up well. He may perform just fine under a coach who isn't the HC's best friend.  I'm easy either way. But don't just give him away for a late pick.

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Its pretty simple to me:

  1. What compensatory pick do we expect to receive when Lee signs with someone else after 2019?  If we think we are going to be active in FA again, that answer could be, on a net basis, none.
  2. Take anything better than that in the 2020 Draft in a trade.  

We are better off with Cashman and Hewitt on this roster than Lee.  We should take the stick of butter or whatever and move on. 

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4 hours ago, varjet said:

I did not realize that the Jaguars are playing a 4-3....and picked Allen....like the Vikings picked Barr. 

Couldn’t the Jags put together a 3-4 defense with Allen, Ngugue (sp), Jack, someone else...Lee?

They didn't need Allen, but Coughlin would never pass on a superior talent.

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5 hours ago, David Harris said:

Lee has some good traits, fast and long, but I’ve never seen an inside line backer ever be so scared of contact.  He doesn’t want to mess up his pretty face. I’m sure that Gregg Williams absolutely hates this guy after watching the tape.

He's truly one of the softest, least instinctual linebackers I've ever seen.  

I know it's a big ask for a 5th rounder, but the more I watch of this kid Cashman, I think he takes Lee's spot sooner rather than later.  

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Darren Lee is our modern day Victor Hobson/Quentin Coples/Calvin Pryor in the sense that Jets fans hate him yet feel he’s worth something and he’s not. You watch, he’s going to get cut or at the very best traded for a bag of balls, hop on some other team’s roster for a hot minute only to be cut and out of the league. He’s just not good.


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1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

Darren Lee is our modern day Victor Hobson/Quentin Coples/Calvin Pryor in the sense that Jets fans hate him yet feel he’s worth something and he’s not. You watch, he’s going to get cut or at the very best traded for a bag of balls, hop on some other team’s roster for a hot minute only to be cut and out of the league. He’s just not good.


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This is absurd. Even if the next team had to move him to Safety, he will be in the league. You're just angry because he was so disappointing with the Jets. How quickly people forget Darron Lee had 3 interceptions last season. Mac has already fielded a few offers for him if the reports were true.

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7 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

Now that I've thought about this longer, I cannot see Tom Coughlin trading a 4th rounder for a linebacker that's afraid of contact. I can't see the Jags trading for Lee. 

Coughlin wouldn’t trade us Fowler for Bridgewater which submarined their season, he also wouldn’t let us trade up in the 2nd round this year- he’s still a giants fan maybe

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4 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

This is absurd. Even if the next team had to move him to Safety, he will be in the league. You're just angry because he was so disappointing with the Jets. How quickly people forget Darron Lee had 3 interceptions last season. Mac has already fielded a few offers for him if the reports were true.

No you are. You say yourself Lee's afraid of contact and in the next breath say the next team could move him to safety? Now that's absurd.

Get it straight. No one is angry at Lee. They are angry at the buffoon who wasted a 1st on him.

How quickly people forget, Lee was suspended for the last 4 games of the season. That is still fresh in team's mindset. Lee will not be traded. If the Jets do get rid of him he will be released. I don't think they will though. He is young and cheap but is not as valuable as he is made out to be by Jet Fans.

 

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34 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Get it straight. No one is angry at Lee. They are angry at the buffoon who wasted a 1st on him. 

Nonsense.

He was mocked around 19, went at 20.  There's no glaring we should have drafted so and so at 20.  He's not great but was and is just what was available at the spot.  Happens but unfortunately sucks that there weren't better options. 

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They are not just going to give him away for a 5th rounder. He's young, he played under a high school coach in Kacey Rogers, and there will be many more injuries before the season starts. 

He was totally misused by Rogers/Bowles, plus Leo didn't have the beef around him to keep lineman out of the 2nd level where he was abused. McClendon? Backup below average Jag now with Quinnen on board, Shepard? Dude found out quickly he's got a lot of work to do. 

Lee is a serviceable LB in a 3/4 used properly. Plus his career is on the line now so he's probably been a bit humbled by his 4 game suspension where his mommy couldn't get him out of a jam. If he stays, Williams will put him in his place & he'll be a bit player for us. Or he'll get traded to a team like the Jags who just lost a starting LB & are kissing the salary cap. We might not like him, but tell me where a team finds a young LB with starting experience when your down a couple of LBs? 

I still think the Jets should be exploring the Ramsey, Rhodes, Harris trades, as this team could be very stout on defense & let Sam get real comfortable by getting the ball back quickly & in great field position to build his confidence. If Polite & Quinnen rise to the occasion, Tru + (Rhodes, Ramsey or Harris), with Adams + Maye, Poole, and our current LBs, that are now pretty deep would be a damn good defense. 

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51 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Nonsense.

He was mocked around 19, went at 20.  There's no glaring we should have drafted so and so at 20.  He's not great but was and is just what was available at the spot.  Happens but unfortunately sucks that there weren't better options. 

Ridiculous.

Sure he was mocked there but to blame the guy for the situation is just wrong. He was played out of position in a scheme that did not suit him. Should have never been drafted and now it's gone south. He is what he is. Overvaluing players worth is a thing that Jet Fans have done for years. This is nothing new. You should know better.

 

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2 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Ridiculous.

Sure he was mocked there but to blame the guy for the situation is just wrong. He was played out of position in a scheme that did not suit him. Should have never been drafted and now it's gone south. He is what he is. Overvaluing players worth is a thing that Jet Fans have done for years. This is nothing new. You should know better.

 

Well we'll see.  Don't think Macc will take a 5th for him, if we keep him Williams will find a role off the bench. Teams get more desperate after injuries or like the Jags having a guy just say he's taking the year off. No matter where he gets traded to if he is traded, that teams fans will be talking about the steal they got, lol. 

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13 hours ago, nycdan said:

Did you just use the words 'Lee' and 'long' in the same sentence?  

I t kills me that they wanted a LB wh could really run fast--so they draft a DB.  To me that is not the first quality I associate with the position.  Drafting a DB to take on guards was just crazy

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19 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Well we'll see.  Don't think Macc will take a 5th for him, if we keep him Williams will find a role off the bench. Teams get more desperate after injuries or like the Jags having a guy just say he's taking the year off. No matter where he gets traded to if he is traded, that teams fans will be talking about the steal they got, lol. 

I don't think Macc will trade him. His cap hit is minor and unless he becomes a problem in the locker room the Jets will keep him. The only way I see him gone is if some team offers them a deal they can't pass up. That most likely won't happen.

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Lee is not afraid of contact per se. He is afraid of contacting linemen because he cannot disengage from them. 

That was one of his biggest problems year one.

He can cover, and flow, and his angles have improved. If Williamson could cover we wouldn't need Lee...but he can't. 

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