Bad start for gase, SOJ (merged)

[sec101row23]

11 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's like I said in the other thread, it's both scary and exciting.  Scary because I personally have no faith in Gase but exciting because he might just the type of egomaniac psycho this team needs to rid the franchise of incompetence.  

Gase definitely has a much stronger NFL circle than Mac or the Johnson's.  I'm intrigued to see what happens from here. 

If he fails, oh well, par for the course.  If he succeeds and Sam becomes elite, get yer Darnold boner pants ready!

Agreed.   If Gase has the power, then fine.  He’s ultimately responsible for the on field performance anyway, might as well let him have a major say in the personnel.  I’ve always felt that the coaches should have a lot of input on those decisions anyway.  Gase, like any newly hired head coach in the NFL, needs to show results quickly.  Let him acquire the players he feels he needs to be successful.  If he isn’t then he’ll be gone.   It’s pretty simple.  

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

This is a good point. The first-time head coach/GM trend with the Jets have meant we have had guys who bend to the whims of the owners because this is their first job and they don't have any cache yet. I don't really have much confidence in Gase working out long-term but I'd hope that the next front office group doesn't just draft only 3 different positions in the first round, which was a trend that outlasted Bradway, Bauer, and Mac, signifying that the dumbass owners are the ones who want this 1980s template built.

My assumption is roster structure was a big part of the rift.  So, yeah, get a guy in who is aligned to the coaches vision for the first time in since forever and see if maybe having 2 guys on the same page for once works.  Crazy, I know. 

[rammagen]

42 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

The Chiefs fired their GM after the draft a couple of years ago. This isn’t unique! Can we at least wait a year or two to see how this works out before we complain? It ridiculous the reaction to everything. And yes Joe Beningo is a total jackass!!

No and the reason KC had a winning coach with a good track record and the Jets have a sub 500 coach, any time or adjustments for errors has gone out the window along with excuses. The excuse they had was the gm and smart owner would have let him stay to cover for the coach. whether you agree or not Gase is on the hot seat and has sole responsibility for this team this season come out and lose and get blasted come out and  win things will be forgiven.

Whether you hate mac or not the time to fire him was with bowles and the reason is to get everyone on the same page going forward, to let him run FA and the draft while he was out of step with the direction of the rest of the team is just pure stupidity. Firing him now does nothing but creates distractions for the coach who now has a dual role when he should just be concentrating on the offense, puts our team into the hands of a coah with a loosing record, if he was all that he should have won more. the excuse of players being injuried and everything else wont cut it now. He alienated some of Miami's best players an had them traded out tat is on him a great coch gets the players to buy into the system, sometimes the smarter person needs to ut his ego into the back of the line to win. Gase has not shown that to me. Just because he coached P. Manning does not make him great i think it was the other way around Manning made him

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.   If Gase has the power, then fine.  He’s ultimately responsible for the on field performance anyway, might as well let him have a major say in the personnel.  I’ve always felt that the coaches should have a lot of input on those decisions anyway.  Gase, like any newly hired head coach in the NFL, needs to show results quickly.  Let him acquire the players he feels he needs to be successful.  If he isn’t then he’ll be gone.   It’s pretty simple.  

Right, which is why the timing is frustrating.  If Gase knew all along Mac was a dud, why not make this power play before FA and the draft?  

[kevinc855]

the last 48 hours has to be the dumbest thing I seen in a while........

to top it off we give away a 1st round linebacker who had his best year to include 3 ints for a 6th rounder

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

Right, which is why the timing is frustrating.  If Gase knew all along Mac was a dud, why not make this power play before FA and the draft?  

Probably because it was too late for him to get his draft lined up. Or something to that effect

[sec101row23]

Just now, JiF said:

Right, which is why the timing is frustrating.  If Gase knew all along Mac was a dud, why not make this power play before FA and the draft?  

I think he did, it just took CJ too long to have the balls to make a decision.  Plus, I think CJ didn’t want to go through the draft process with an interim GM.  

[kevinc855]

11 hours ago, SAR I said:

If you loved your girlfriend in January and found out in May that she was f-cking around behind your back, you dump her in May, not January.  Your mom asks you, "why didn't you dump her in January!" and you respond "she wasn't cheating on me in January!"

A GM and a HC have to get along.  Clearly something happened during the draft and FA process that made Mr. Johnson realize that this forced marriage of Adam and Mike wasn't going to work.  Now that the draft and FA period is over and we're in the lull before camp, perfect time to cut the cord and move on.

SAR I

comparing your gf to running a complex organization has to be on the silliest things I heard in a while 

[section314]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Right, which is why the timing is frustrating.  If Gase knew all along Mac was a dud, why not make this power play before FA and the draft?  

Easy...because he had to convince Chris, "beyond a reasonable shade of doubt," that Macc had to go.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Probably because it was too late for him to get his draft lined up. Or something to that effect

In January?  No.  There was plenty of time.  Remove Mac, keep his scouting depth but let the process be led by the new guy who than fires the scouting dept. after the draft.

Mayock and Gruden did it like 2 weeks before the draft.  They just took over the whole process and ignored the inherited scouting dept. 

 

Just now, sec101row23 said:

I think he did, it just took CJ too long to have the balls to make a decision.  Plus, I think CJ didn’t want to go through the draft process with an interim GM.  

Why would it have been interim?  Gase knew who he wanted for this role when he gave up in Miami.  

[SAR I]

11 hours ago, BallinPB said:

Bell came here because the Jets paid him the most to come here.  No other reason.  Lets not try to spin the obvious.

Of course the money was paramount, but Bell didn't come here because he believed in Mike Maccagnan; he did it because he believed in Adam Gase.  If it were one or the other, the offensive minded head coach is certainly more important to a player.

SAR I

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

Easy...because he had to convince Chris, "beyond a reasonable shade of doubt," that Macc had to go.

I dont know what this means

[sec101row23]

Just now, JiF said:

In January?  No.  There was plenty of time.  Remove Mac, keep his scouting depth but let the process be led by the new guy who than fires the scouting dept. after the draft.

Mayock and Gruden did it like 2 weeks before the draft.  They just took over the whole process and ignored the inherited scouting dept. 

 

Why would it have been interim?  Gase knew who he wanted for this role when he gave up in Miami.  

I don’t think they could have hired anyone prior to the draft, pretty sure teams don’t allow personnel guys to take interviews or leave their positions until after the draft process.  

[jetsons]

11 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

And what message does it send to the next GM?  

You'll be given ample opportunity; ample time (5yrs) & ample resources (>100m cap) to succeed & if you fail you'll be fired... nothing new.... Plus you'll be in the biggest media market in the country/world & if you relish that then you can't ask for more.... As Ol' Blue Eyes sang... "If I can make there I can make it anywhere."

[Matt39]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Right, which is why the timing is frustrating.  If Gase knew all along Mac was a dud, why not make this power play before FA and the draft?  

Who knows. The search for both the GM and the coach should have started last October. 

[SAR I]

11 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

My point is larger than the one example I gave.  The point is "why allow a GM - who may or may not be on the same page as the HC - to run your draft and spend $100M in FA when you're just going to replace him?"

I don't know how many ways I, and others,  have to say this to you. 

Christopher Johnson believed in Maccagnan in February.  Coming out of the draft and FA process he saw something in him that he didn't like so he fired him in May.

As the King Of The Defeatist Jets Fans on JN I don't expect you to understand this, but the CEO of a $3 BILLION dollar corporation didn't allow a guy he was going to fire to run his draft, court free agents, and spend $100M in free agent money.  Maccagnan did something in the past few weeks, perhaps the last few days, to get himself fired.  So he was. 

Walk into your bosses office right now.  Say 5 stupid things that make no sense and are against what your boss believes in.  Then repeat the process tomorrow.  You'll be boxing up your personal items and handing in your ID to HR on Monday.

SAR I

[section314]

Just now, JiF said:

I dont know what this means

Kim Jones said last night on NFL Network that she talked with Chris Johnson yesterday, and he used the term decisive many times. Couldn't decide on Paradis, couldn't close Barr, probably couldn't pull trigger on draft day trade, etc. According to reports, which we recently found out were pretty accurate, there was a major blowup in war room during the draft, and Chris had to intervene and calm everybody down. Was probably last straw as far as Chris was concerned regarding Macc not being able to think on his feet . Gase proved his point to Chris in spades, he just had to let it become painfully obvious to him.

[section314]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Who knows. The search for both the GM and the coach should have started last October. 

10 mins. after the Buffalo loss at home.

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I don’t think they could have hired anyone prior to the draft, pretty sure teams don’t allow personnel guys to take interviews or leave their positions until after the draft process.  

Well, I'm specifically referring to Gase hired - Mac fired - new GM...like a quick fluid thingy.

I have no clue what the rules of engaging with execs are in the NFL. 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

Kim Jones said last night on NFL Network that she talked with Chris Johnson yesterday, and he used the term decisive many times. Couldn't decide on Paradis, couldn't close Barr, probably couldn't pull trigger on draft day trade, etc. According to reports, which we recently found out were pretty accurate, there was a major blowup in war room during the draft, and Chris had to intervene and calm everybody down. Was probably last straw as far as Chris was concerned regarding Macc not being able to think on his feet . Gase proved his point to Chris in spades, he just had to let it become painfully obvious to him.

Gotcha.  Thanks for sharing.  Makes sense. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

I don't know how many ways I, and others,  have to say this to you. 

Christopher Johnson believed in Maccagnan in February.  Coming out of the draft and FA process he saw something in him that he didn't like so he fired him in May.

As the King Of The Defeatist Jets Fans on JN I don't expect you to understand this, but the CEO of a $3 BILLION dollar corporation didn't allow a guy he was going to fire to run his draft, court free agents, and spend $100M in free agent money.  Maccagnan did something in the past few weeks, perhaps the last few days, to get himself fired.  So he was. 

Walk into your bosses office right now.  Say 5 stupid things that make no sense and are against what your boss believes in.  Then repeat the process tomorrow.  You'll be boxing up your personal items and handing in your ID to HR on Monday.

SAR I

also, it's not like they gave mccagnan $100 million on a credit card and let him buy whatever he wanted.  every signing was vetted by cj and gase anyway.  sure there are rumblings that gase may not have wanted to pay that much for bell, but he sure is way better than anything else they have here.  

i don't think there was much disagreement on FA.  FA is an unpredictable process where a guy like Barr says he's coming and then renegs.  social media also factors into how ugly it can get.  i think the rift was b/c of how they used draft currency and stuff like getting rid of darron lee, a guy who was suspended for drugs who the dolphins abused and gase thought sucked.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Are you saying that Jet fans being negative about this move (or the general ineptitude of this franchise) is completely uncalled for?  

You've wanted Macc fired for years, cry over the inept management that kept him.

He gets fired.

Cry about inept management that fired him.

Cry over how he was fired.

Cant make it up.  

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Well, I'm specifically referring to Gase hired - Mac fired - new GM...like a quick fluid thingy.

I have no clue what the rules of engaging with execs are in the NFL. 

Oh.  Agree that it needed to be done in January.  I just think that the differences didn’t start becoming obvious until free agency and the pre draft process.  By then, it was too late to make the move.  

[SAR I]

11 hours ago, Alka said:

You're second paragraph hits the nail on the head in my opinion.  The smartest thing I've read today.  Like it is always said, if the team stinks, you can't fire the entire roster, you fire the head coach.

In this situation, you've just hired the head coach, and the GM and coach can't get along.  One of them had to go, and you're not going to fire the head coach you just hired.

Too many Jets fans believe in conspiracy theories and/or are consumed with feeling like they are second-class and that our ownership is  incompetent.  It's pathetic, really.  Punch-drunk Mets fans making the rest of us look bad.

This situation is quite simple.  Like many people in the executive workplace, Mike Maccagnan couldn't fit in with his peers and disappointed his boss in recent weeks so he got let go. 

SAR I

[SoFlaJets]

I see this move as a good one and one that is a step in the right direction-finally. Any of you guys who know me know my feelings about Woody Johnson and how in my eyes he showed his true colors (red not green and white) by telling the world in after a 34-0 drubbing by the 49ers after the 4th game of the 2012  season that the most important to him was NOT a winning Jets football season but rather that a certain political party that he supported, wins the White House and the House. Thank God for us Jets fans that Woody is finally doing what he thinks is most important over in England while his brother Chris is at least trying to bring the Jets into the small town community that the I have always considered the NFL to be.  Now we need Joe Douglas and Daniel Jeremiah to help get the Jets even closer to the center of town.

I know there's been a lot of carping about the timing and calls are always ready for people to write SOJ, but all I know is at least we got rid of the guy who has set this team back 3-5 years with his horrible drafting and mystifying inability to sign any much-needed Free Agents over his tenure.

At least now I feel that there is a chance that I may once again see the Jets playing in a Super Bowl, and I want to tell you guys, there was never a bigger sporting event in The Big Apple as there was in 1969 after the Jets won it all, I would love for all of us to see it happen again.

[Jet Nut]

16 minutes ago, section314 said:

Easy...because he had to convince Chris, "beyond a reasonable shade of doubt," that Macc had to go.

 

6 minutes ago, section314 said:

Kim Jones said last night on NFL Network that she talked with Chris Johnson yesterday, and he used the term decisive many times. Couldn't decide on Paradis, couldn't close Barr, probably couldn't pull trigger on draft day trade, etc. According to reports, which we recently found out were pretty accurate, there was a major blowup in war room during the draft, and Chris had to intervene and calm everybody down. Was probably last straw as far as Chris was concerned regarding Macc not being able to think on his feet . Gase proved his point to Chris in spades, he just had to let it become painfully obvious to him.

Which one is it, a power play engineered by Gase or poor performance by Macc?  Seems like two different reasons to fire him here. 

[RVAJet815]

1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

All I read on this board for over a year was constant complaining about Mac. Numerous threads discussing his incompetence. Now he is fired and the complaining continues. It just doesn’t stop!

It's more that the firing gives off an air that the Org has no idea what it's doing. We should have fired Mac MONTHS ago. Very few of us argue that. To fire him now...AFTER the draft..AFTER committing a bunch of cash to players and coaches (that, btw the HC is apparently on record to NOT want)...is just prototypical old school Jets mismanagement. We thought we were passed this dysfunction. THAT is the cause of the anger. Mac now has time to spend at the DD on Ridgedale...not crying for him!  

[slats]

36 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's like I said in the other thread, it's both scary and exciting.  Scary because I personally have no faith in Gase but exciting because he might just the type of egomaniac psycho this team needs to rid the franchise of incompetence.  

Gase definitely has a much stronger NFL circle than Mac or the Johnson's.  I'm intrigued to see what happens from here. 

If he fails, oh well, par for the course.  If he succeeds and Sam becomes elite, get yer Darnold boner pants ready!

It's not surprising that this move has lead to a re-examination of Gase here. 

I don't know if Gase pulled off a coup, or if Chris Johnson was just taken by his barking dog approach after working with the milquetoast duo of Bowles and Mac. Apparently Mac suffered a bit when it came to ****ing or getting off the pot, and that probably led to Gase being very vocal about making a decision already. I think Gase was CJ's guy, and now CJ wants to get Gase more of his guys. 

I don't have a strong opinion of Gase. The people who didn't like the hire seem particularly aggravated right now. My general mindset is that this is the Jets' coach, I root for the Jets, so I'm gonna root for this guy to be the genius he allegedly is. Not much else I can do. I think it's in their best interests to make this GM hire ASAP. No drawn out interview process. If Douglas is the actually the guy Gase wants, just bring him in. 

[Apache 51]

 

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Poor analogy. Macc should have been fired for his lack of good performance as a GM going back to the end of the 2015 season. 

Macc's raging stupidity has been well documented well before Gase was even dismissed from Miami.

In otherwords, you should have fired Macc for the same reasons you fired Bowles.

If we're the Pittsburgh Steelers or Dallas Cowboys I'd agree with you.  But you seem to forget that the Jets scrape the bottom of the NFL GM and HC barrel every time we create an opening.  For years we had a lousy record, no quarterback, a broken locker room, and compete in a division where it's impossible to win.  The AFC East has been a black hole of NFL careers since 2001 and the Jets are no exception.  Making things worse, we are in a huge media market so flaming out here is even more dramatic.

So when we finally are able to recruit an experienced head coach who is very well respected around the league as a progressive offensive mind, that's a big deal.  Adam Gase to the Jets is a very big development, and if the fools who were consumed with Mike McCarthy and get embarrassed by Buttfumbles and googly eyes could see more clearly they'd understand that Gase is the key to everything. 

Maccagnan was here to serve Gase and they didn't get along.  So Mike is gone.  And now it's abundantly clear who is running this show and every front office executive, every scout, every coach, and every player knows who is boss.  That is the exact opposite of dysfunction.  That is something to be excited about.  We haven't had an ass-kicking big boss since Bill Parcells.  No, Adam Gase is not Bill Parcells.  But give a guy like Gase the keys to the kingdom and you may find out he is.  Gase is an animal.  He killed Maccagnan, let him go kill the AFC East.

SAR I

[Thai Jet]

56 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Exactly.  No one, other than a few Maccagnan apologists is upset over him being fired.  It’s that it was done 5 months too late.  Now, the same cycle continues.  This was an incredibly important offseason and Chris Johnson allowed an incompetent GM to spend all their money.   Because the Johnsons know nothing about the NFL, and have zero ability to find coaches and GMs on their own, they were too scared to make the right decision in January.  

That's exactly what I've been saying. Why let him be in charge for the FA and draft if he's that incompetent ? It was a critical off season. Can him as soon as the season ended.

[section314]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 

Which one is it, a power play engineered by Gase or poor performance by Macc?  Seems like two different reasons to fire him here. 

Probably a bit of both, but they go hand in hand. Chris basically said he was living in the building, so he saw the whole prelude to FA and the draft, and the aftermath. Convinced him that, albeit 5 mos. too late, he had to do this. He chose Gase.

[SoFlaJets]

25 minutes ago, JiF said:

My assumption is roster structure was a big part of the rift.  So, yeah, get a guy in who is aligned to the coaches vision for the first time in since forever and see if maybe having 2 guys on the same page for once works.  Crazy, I know. 

Exactly JiF and really, who cares that it wasn't done in December or in January or in February, at least it got done. We were all sitting there a few years ago watching the Jets field teams with players names on the rosters that had no business even playing pro ball. Good riddance.

[SAR I]

5 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I sincerely do not understand how anyone can feel other than good. Late or not the Jets fired an incompetent GM that was hurting this team. He was worse than Idzik. Finally our owner wised up.

+1

And May is the perfect time to do it.  Before camp so it doesn't affect the team.  Months before GM's traditionally get fired so you get to scoop the league on hot candidates coming out.  And with Gase installed as Emperor, this whole concept of "Dysfunction! Dysfunction! HC and GM aren't on the same page!" goes away.  Now the HC picks the GM and has control.  Several of the teams in the NFL operate that way.  The good ones.

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

Probably a bit of both, but they go hand in hand. Chris basically said he was living in the building, so he saw the whole prelude to FA and the draft, and the aftermath. Convinced him that, albeit 5 mos. too late, he had to do this. He chose Gase.

Im getting that feeling too.  Could see Gase have reservations about Macc after the FA period and CJ seeing the difference between the passive Macc and decisive Gase