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Chiefs - Jets Agree to Darron Lee trade

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Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think it's now safe to say that Darren Lee was the main player that Macc and Gase vehemently disagreed on.

Certainly looks like it.  Mccagnan wouldn’t admit that lee was a bad pick.

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Just now, Integrity28 said:

Amazing how painful it is to come to grips with how pathetic Mac's picks panned out, when you see someone dealing them away without needing to insulate his reputation in the transaction.

Thought hypothetical, I would argue that was primarily why Mac didn't trade down in this draft. Optics would have been terrible for him if he didn't get full value. 

Mccagnan saved his butt by picking Adams and darnold, he figured he’d do it again by picking Q and having him be good.

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2 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i should think williams had some input.  6th seems pretty cheap for lee.  there may be something else going on besides his play on the field.

The drug suspension.  

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Just now, TheGoose said:

This trade frees up $3.2M

Hopefully this is precursor to trading for & signing a high priced Center. 

Was wondering this too but who?

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

If this is true, 1. Imagine holding on to a malcontent player for months because you want a fifth rounder and not a sixth. And, 2. Gives you an idea of how paralyzed Maccagnan would be on draft day when trade offers are being presented to him and he has five minutes to decide on them. Allegedly, that's how they lost out on a Kamara trade, because Macc couldn't pull the trigger.

Couldn’t admit he messed up with his first round pick.  Yep.

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13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's a statement trade not a value trade. We could have traded our 7th round pick this year for a 6th rounder next year, and it'd have been for a higher 6th rounder than we'll get for Lee.

 

i imagine that mccagnan waffled about trading lee during the draft, but ultimately decided not to admit failure with one of his former 1st round picks.  ironically he drafted lee's replacement anyway in cashman.  it's possible that mccagnan knew that lee was going to be traded by training camp anyway, and planned for this by drafting cashman but still couldn't admit that lee was a fail both on and off the field.  

this traded was clearly a statement trade that gase 1) has no desire to coach certain players and 2) will not waffle on personnel decisions.

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8 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Yea I agree, this is absolutely a statement trade. I think the leaks about money spent on Bell and Mosley is a sign to Leo that we won't break the bank for limited production.

leo is gone after this season, gase will use that money on offense somehow.

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Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I did say if it was a trade purely for statement, that has value. In terms of value, they didn't get much of any. They lose a cheap, young, healthy 3-year starter this year for a late 6th rounder next year.

I have no particular love for Lee as a player (nor as a person). He sold low here, so the trade's only value is the "whoa" value to the rest of the roster. Hopefully it has that effect and guys fall in line in part because of it. I can get behind that.

If he is productive for KC this year - if he's anywhere near as productive as he was last year, with his glorious top 10 PFF ranking for most of the season -  it's going to look foolish absent the Jets fielding a top 5-ish defensive unit in 2019 (something Williams has achieved once - barely - since the 2004 ended). 

one thing that i think is going under radar with the darron lee trade, is that gase watched a lot of film on the jets D and specifically embarrassed him last year i think.  wasn't it the dolphins who tricked the jet lbs on a few tds last year where they cleared out the middle?  i think gase came in with his personnel assessments and wanted no part of lee on his defense and that's even before you consider the drug suspension.  and this was probably a point of contention with mccags b/c gms on the hot seat are generally unwilling to admit failure with a top pick. 

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

And this is an innate trait in the player? Then why bother with Gase in the first place if coaching and gameplanning has so little impact on player positioning and performance? 

I'm in favor of it working out by the end of the season. We'll see.

don't understand this response.  my point was that gase knew lee sucked and wanted mccagnan to trade him, that's why he traded him when he could.

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You don't understand? So no young players who previously looked sucky under substandard coaching will improve by virtue of Gase's (and/or Williams's) coaching. That is your inference, to which I was alluding. 

I think it's presumptuous to guess reasons why Crazy Eyes wants or doesn't want anything just yet.

I wanted Maccagnan gone. I'm happy he is gone, even if it's years late. That doesn't therefore make Gase a good GM, nor even a better one than the dufus he's interim-replacing. If Macc rather than Gase had traded Lee for a late 6th round pick a full season later I'd be no less critical, and I sense many are giving Gase an unearned benefit of the doubt here. 

Sometimes a player has more value to a team than he has on a trade market. Especially when teams are flooded with 90-player rosters after the FA wave and draft is over. I'd have waited for an injury to any of 31 other teams (including KC), as I don't see the rush to move him in mid-May. But I'm not coaching the team so admittedly I have that luxury.

by picking cashman, you can infer that's an admission they were going to get rid of lee at some point anyway.  with the roster the jets have, how much would lee have played this year, and what could he have fetched in return in a trade - maybe a 5th or a 4th, maybe, if he doesn't get suspended again or injured.  

lee doesn't seem like the type of player who will improve that much with different coaching.  his lack of size and inability to play physically limits him to what he did best at OSU - running free behind giant DLs.  in the nfl his ability to do this unimpeded is reduced as is his value.  

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3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Getting suckered doesn't always equate with sucking. Coaches can/should provide cues that would indicate when and when not to chase or vacate an area.  Your complaint honestly sounded as much with the coaching as the player. 

true it could be that the defensive coaching last year contributed to lee not playing well.  but in 3 years we've seen enough of lee to know pretty much what he can and can't do.   

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3 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

"on paper" is a myth.   The value in a market is determined by what buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept.   I am sure the Jets contacted 28 teams to unload Lee and this is the best that they could do. 

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Macc had a slightly better draft day offer that he rejected to save face for yet another bad draft pick but Lee's value dropped significantly once the Jets signed Mosely so he's worth what they received in return.   

let's say another team approached the jets trying to trade mccagnan darron lee.  how much would you give up for a smallish lb who is not a pass rusher who was suspended for drugs last year?  

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1 minute ago, varjet said:

It appears that Gase liked to run decent players out of town to make a statement.  I don’t think that this arises to that, but hopefully Gase is not allowed to do that.

I think Lee is an example of someone who was just not going to culturally fit with Gase/Gregg and what the Jets wanted to do.  The difference between what the Jets are getting for him and what the best case scenario was is neglible.  He was not going to start or play special teams.   He was not going to add more value than Cashman and Hewitt.  He was costing at least an extra $1mm.  I am not worried about him playing on another team and looking good. 

I am not going to worry or second guess this trade anymore.  It is good for the Jets and good for Lee as a person, even if I think he is a knucklehead.  

once he was suspended for drugs his trade value went down substantially.  combine this with unimpressive production and he's an undersized jag with off field issues.  

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Just now, Bleedin Green said:

While I agree there was potential to get more for him at some point, it was far from a guarantee, and at this point it almost seems to have been a foregone conclusion that Lee was not going to be on the team this year (how good/bad of a mindset that is, is another argument).  If that's truly the case, I don't think this is a great coup, but not a big negative either.  That is of course assuming this is an outlier, and not any type of regular occurrence to come, which would of course mean very different things.

From my perspective, as low-value as 6th round pick may be, I would give no support to the Jets trading theirs for a player on a one-year deal, that they would have no interest in extending, who would be definitively locked into a backup role at a position the team has already invested excessive /  record-breaking amounts of money in multiple starters, plus added backup FA signings/draft picks as well.  That's what the Jets would ultimately be doing by turning down the deal, so I don't really blame them too much.

also factored into this was that they probably already knew lee was going to be a malcontent and a bad presence in the locker room.  why would gase and williams want to start off knowing that they were going to have to get rid of this guy?

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